Volvo to go all electric in 2019

[Mr Quatro]

This is big news ... they've been building cars since 1927

http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-volvo-electric-motors-20170705-story.html

Volvo will begin producing electric motors on all its cars starting in 2019, becoming the first traditional automaker to forgo the combustion engine altogether.

That reads all of it's cars :o


Volvo, which since 2010 has been owned by Chinese firm Geely, will launch five fully electric cars between 2019 and 2021.

[Schroeder]

Pretty stupid move in my opinion. While electric mobility is on the rise there is still a severe lack of infrastructure to recharge vehicles away from home, making them rather useless for people who travel a lot like those businessmen that often drive Volvos....:hmmm:

[STEED]

Not the smartest move, sell my shares all of them.

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

From OP's link:
"This announcement marks the end of the solely combustion-engine-powered car," Volvo Chief Executive Hakan Samuelsson said in a conference call with reporters. "People increasingly demand electrified cars, and we want to respond to our customers' current and future needs."...and
The Volvo news does not signal the end of the internal combustion engine. The company’s definition of electrified includes mild hybrid cars — vehicles with small electric motors that allow traditional gasoline and diesel engines to turn off at stop lights and get the vehicles moving again before the engines restart....which means hybrids and pure-electric cars for now. Volvo cars with internal combustion engines are not disappearing in 2019.

[Schroeder]

From OP's link:
...and
...which means hybrids and pure-electric cars for now. Volvo cars with internal combustion engines are not disappearing in 2019.
That's what I thought at first too, but that doesn't match: Volvo will begin producing electric motors on all its cars starting in 2019, becoming the first traditional automaker to forgo the combustion engine altogether.:hmmm:

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

That's what I thought at first too, but that doesn't match: :hmmm:
Good point. Whatever the correct answer is, the reporter has screwed up in presentation of facts.

[Gargamel]

They are doing this ti get under the EU emissions limits that are looming in the not so distant future. As mentioned, and in the articles I've read, they will still be producing internal combustion engines, jsut that they will be matched up with a electric motor to make some hybrid cars, along with all electric ones.

I think this is a wonderful move. The conversion from gas to electric has been a chicken or egg scenario for too long. Manufacturers have been reluctant because the infrastructure is pretty weak to accommodate electric cars, and the "infrastructure industry" (???) has been reluctant to build the infrastructure because the demand isn't there yet.

If this is the first domino to fall in going towards the majority of vehicles being predominately renewable energy supplied, I'm all for it.

I'm just hoping (lol) that they will retrofit my 2004 s60.

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jul/05/volvo-cars-electric-hybrid-2019) says that pure internal combustion cars are going, hybrid range is expanding and new pure electric models come in 2019.

[Skybird]

Every six months, they say, a new battery generation gets iout of the bloick, that emans the most costly item aboard electric cars looses its value in record time. When people try to resellt heir old cars after 4, 5 years, they will curse.

This, and the still not really practical range these cars have under real world conditions , and in countries the almost non existinmg infrastructure for electric charging, imo make it a silly decision to buy such a car. Makes sense only, maybe for companies doing dsriving businesses withoin limited city perimeters.

In Germany, sales are hilariously low, although there is a state-support program of 4000 Euros per car. People just do not want these things so far. 4000 Euros cannot compensate for lackign range and lacking charging - and those there are, have a multitude of various standards. And there are four dozen card-payment models for them. that yiou have two or three such cards doe snot mean that oyu can use them for payment at the charging station you happened to have found...

Diesel seesm to be a past thing as well, so: if needing a car now, still go normal gas, I say. I would not buy an electric car now.

BTW, there are model calculations showing that electric cars in no way are so much more ecologic like is claimed, when you consider the ecologic costs of their production as well. Especially the Tesla cars, often claimed to be the spearhead of development, score especially bad amongst electric car brands when it comes to calculate not just running costs, but the ecologic fingerprint of production as well.

There is quite some surrogate religion in all this.

[mapuc]

Throughout the years I have learned that batteries is depending on how the weather is. If it's cold the battery perform bad and very good at temp 20-25.

From a friends friend on FB I have also learned that on a good day, you can drive about 70-80 km, before charging the battery-He has a Tesla.

I think they should work on creating better batteries before going all in on electric cars.

Some years ago I read something about NANO-based batteries and virus-based batteries(developed by MIT). Don't know if those batteries will be in our cars in the future.

Markus

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Throughout the years I have learned that batteries is depending on how the weather is. If it's cold the battery perform bad and very good at temp 20-25.That is correct and has been major trouble with electrifying public transit buses here in Finland. Most of the year outdoor air temperatures are way below 20 degress Celsius, in January temperatures in Lapland dropped to -41 degrees Celsius for couple of days.

Solution? Provide good insulation and use small amount of electricity to keep batteries temperature at optimal level. That has reportedly worked with transit bus but I don't know what was required to achieve sucess nor how well it would work in private car.

I think they should work on creating better batteries before going all in on electric cars.This statement begs for a question: When batteries would be sufficiently advanced to be used in cars then?

[Skybird]

This statement begs for a question: When batteries would be sufficiently advanced to be used in cars then?
- When you can travelk from Munich to Hamburg on an average weather day without needing to plan four ofd five stops for recharging in advance - and then getting stranded due to incompatible charging stations and messy payment models preventing you from charging your battery. Munich Hamburg with just one stop - no matter the outside temperature, passenger load, speed driven.

- When you do not end up in the middle of nirvana becasue the weatherr forecats was bad and the day you drive has temps falling to zero.

- In short: when your electric car reliably provides you with the range of any gas-driven car with small tank, no matter the weather. If I need to do preplanning as if I were to take off with a Cessna and must file a flightpan and fuel calculation, then it simply is not practical.

And all that helps nothing if there is no electrical infrastructure to support this transportation model.

We are many years away for that, still. A new battery revolution is püromsied for late htis year or early next year, for electric bicycles these will increase the range by 50-60% on average, they advertize. The pedelec batteries will be a spinoff from developments done for electric cars. For pedelecs they are expected next year.

[mapuc]

Today the car producers have developed engine that can drive miles/kilometers on 1 liters fuel.

Until they have developed a battery that can make a car go about 200-250 km on one charging, whatever temp. they should use todays batteries together with todays modern engines a Hybrid so to say.

What I understand it's the batteries capacity who is the main thing here-Thou more capacity you have thou more electricity you can get and for a longer time, depending on how much electricity you are using at the moment.

These NANO-based batteries should have up to 10.000 or more of this(capacity)

Markus

[Skybird]

Batteries have limited life spans, they loose maximum capacity with every loading cycle. Another cost factor that usually does not get talked about. There is too much hype in all it so far. At least as far as cars are concerned.

[mapuc]

Batteries have limited life spans, they loose maximum capacity with every loading cycle. Another cost factor that usually does not get talked about. There is too much hype in all it so far. At least as far as cars are concerned.

If I remember correctly these NANO-based batteries can be recharged up to 1 million times without losing power(capacity)and no drop in volts. Even after having charged the battery you will have 6.0000 volt, as in today batteries you will have an decrease in Volt. From start it may show 5.999 Volt and after 100 or 1000 recharging it may show 5.87 Volt and lower capacity.

Markus

[vienna]

Pretty stupid move in my opinion. While electric mobility is on the rise there is still a severe lack of infrastructure to recharge vehicles away from home, making them rather useless for people who travel a lot like those businessmen that often drive Volvos....:hmmm:

I don't know about the rest of the world, but here in Los Angeles, combination parking meter/electric car charging stations have been popping up all over the place. The units take up about the same amount of space as a conventional parking meter and provide the option of being able to charge your car while its parked. By providing the ability to travel and charge the car while idle without the need to be inconvenienced, the actual range of electric cars can be extended, making electric vehicles a more viable option...




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[Mr Quatro]

Yes, your right kraznyi_oktjabr I didn't read the whole article. I sort of was shocked to hear that it was Volvo and that that was the direction they were headed to go all electric. Then I saw that Volvo was owned by China with the next thought being cheap batteries supplied by China all the way to Sweden.

These cars won't be cheap ... most of the hybrid cars now are in the $30,000 US dollars range now.

More and more EV charging stations are opening right now with downtown Portland, Oregon being free to shoppers.

http://www.westcoastgreenhighway.com/electrichighway.htm

The “West Coast Electric Highway” is an extensive network of electric vehicle (EV) DC fast charging stations located every 25 to 50 miles along Interstate 5 and other major roadways in the Pacific Northwest. The Washington State Department of Transportation leads the charge on the Washington segment, the Oregon Department of Transportation heads up the Oregon segment, and the California segment is coordinated by a Governor’s Office interagency group.

The west coast has a robust EV charging network with thousands of Level 2 charging pedestals and dozens of DC fast chargers.

Easy and Convenient Charging Locations
Electric vehicle drivers can now grab a cup of coffee or shop while charge up their vehicles at shopping centers, fueling stations and restaurants within a half mile of highway interchanges. The fast charge technology allows drivers to re-charge mass-produced all-electric vehicles such as the Nissan Leaf and Mitsubishi “i MiEV” in 30 minutes or less. Each location also includes Level 2 equipment to re-charge most plug in electric vehicles such as the Chevrolet Volt.

[vienna]

Yes, your right kraznyi_oktjabr I didn't read the whole article. I sort of was shocked to hear that it was Volvo and that that was the direction they were headed to go all electric. Then I saw that Volvo was owned by China with the next thought being cheap batteries supplied by China all the way to Sweden.

These cars won't be cheap ... most of the hybrid cars now are in the $30,000 US dollars range now.

More and more EV charging stations are opening right now with downtown Portland, Oregon being free to shoppers.

http://www.westcoastgreenhighway.com/electrichighway.htm

Thanks for the post, it fleshes out how the charging system works. :up: ...

Most impressive is the availability of charging stations for free; this could be the harbinger of further variations such as public parking lots including charging as part of their parking fee or a business offering not only a parking validation, but a "free charge" as well as a patronage perq...




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[em2nought]

I wonder about Volvo's plans for their trucking division?
http://www.nextautoshow.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/VolvoTrucks-sales-recovering.jpg

[Wildcat]

To the guy who said he's dumping all his stock .. ridiculous, try to appreciate the vision Volvo has. They are getting a major head start against the competition - electric motors are the future of automobiles.

The infrastructure may not be there yet but it will be. Electricity also took years and years to become what it is today. With electric cars, we don't even need to create huge networks of infrastructure - it already exists, with some modification anywhere can become a vehicle charging point.

Interesting move by Volvo.

[vienna]

May not be that big of an impact. Here in LA, there are a lot of big trucks that are either hybrid or full electric running around town; in fact, the local transit authority, which already has an all natural gas-powered fleet, is actively working with some Chinese firms on the implementation of all-electric buses on the service routes. Given that China, faced with serious air pollution problems, is rapidly moving in the direction of non-combustion engine vehicle development, they stand to profit from other countries' need to find non-petroleum alternatives. This is one of the reasons why the US oil industry and other related concerns are so in arms over the Paris Accord: now that demand for petroleum-based fuel products is sharply declining in the US and their market here shrinks, they had high hopes of expanding into other industrialized nations and other emergent economies, but, with the rise in ever more affordable alternate, renewable energy, the expansions are dimming...




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[Schroeder]

I don't know about the rest of the world, but here in Los Angeles, combination parking meter/electric car charging stations have been popping up all over the place.

And how about rural hillbilly county?
The majority of the worlds population doesn't live in a metropolis.:03:
Infrastructure for electric cars over here is developing but still far from being everywhere. So far you still have to know where you can get electricity before going on a longer trip.

[Catfish]

Energy is energy, and physical principles cannot be violated.
That said, the energy to charge electric objects of all kinds has to be produced first. By moving the source of energy to centralized plants instead of having them built into cars only looks like aclean solution; burning coal or using reactors still pollutes the environment. AND you have drastic losses transporting this energy to where it is needed, then add charging losses.

Apart from that being dependent on electric energy is not such an advantage to being dependent on fossil fuel.

A battery car may look clean and does not stink, but we just shifted the problem to where it cannot be seen so directly.

[vienna]

And how about rural hillbilly county?
The majority of the worlds population doesn't live in a metropolis.:03:
Infrastructure for electric cars over here is developing but still far from being everywhere. So far you still have to know where you can get electricity before going on a longer trip.

We don't have hillbilly country in the City of Los Angeles anymore, it's very densely populated. When I first lived here in 1965, the population was about 2.6 million; when I moved to stay in 1970, it was 2.8 million; just recently, in 2016, the population edged over 4 million. It used to be there were some areas in the San Fernando Valley (a part of the City of Los Angeles) that were rather rural, but all those areas have been 'tamed'. A lot of those areas were settled in the 1920s and 1930s by rural 'refugees' from farmlands in states farther to the east of California who were fleeing the desolation and disaster of the Dust Bowl and other economic crises. Before they became 'citified', the Los Angelenos used to refer to them derisively as "Oakies". Don't find any "Oakies" in LA anymore. The total population of Los Angeles County is about 9.82 million, so there really isn't a lot of space for 'hillbillies'...

The need to map out charging stations was a bit of a problem here before, but with so many stations and units popping up, it is less of a worry. In fact, with curbside chargers being installed in increasing numbers, it is getting to the point of being a minor concern in LA...

Given that most city dwellers tend to drive primarily within the city (work, school, shopping, etc.), range is not a huge problem, but I can understand how it would be a major consideration in rural areas...

Perhaps the solution lies in another form of fuel such as hydrogen: it is easy to produce, is plentiful and the range of vehicles currently being produced is not too bad; for example, Toyota is selling a hydrogen-powered car, the Mirai, in California and the listed range on a full tank is 312 miles. That may not be as great as, say, a gasoline car with a 400 mile range, but it is better than an electric. Refueling is also better than an electric, averaging about five minutes to completely refuel an empty tank. The Mirai is a bit pricey at about US$57,500, list, but Toyota throws in up to three years free fuel...

Production of hydrogen fuel is also very easy to do; I recall seeing a documentary a few years back where they described a Scandinavian country where petrol gas stations were being converted to hydrogen and the production facilities were right on the premises; no need to have the fuel trucked to the station as with petrol; an interesting alternative, indeed...




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[Jimbuna]

Direct ties and ownership by the Chinese :hmmm:

Would be interesting to know what Trump thinks about the subject matter as it is highly likely he will be seeking multi-country sanctions against China at the forthcoming G20 Summit because of their failure to put pressure on Kim over the ICBM program he is currently taking.

Just saying.

[Schroeder]

We don't have hillbilly country in the City of Los Angeles anymore,
I wasn't referring to L.A. but to the first world in general. There are plenty of one horse towns in Germany (and the US) where people don't have that sort of infrastructure and won't have it for some time. Everybody with an all electric Volvo will have difficulties visiting those areas. That's why I wouldn't drop combustion engines entirely just yet.

[vienna]

Oh, I'm not saying internal combustion engines will disappear entirely; they'll most likely fall into the realm of the diesel engine, useful for heavy lifting, but not really necessary in urban areas and everyday life...




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[Mr Quatro]

I wasn't referring to L.A. but to the first world in general. There are plenty of one horse towns in Germany (and the US) where people don't have that sort of infrastructure and won't have it for some time. Everybody with an all electric Volvo will have difficulties visiting those areas. That's why I wouldn't drop combustion engines entirely just yet.

Most rural people are poor ... these new electric hybrid cars are for rich people, seniors that go to the box stores and shopping centers less than 15 miles away. The cost of charging one of these at home must run up the ole electric bill too.

Another problem with electric cars is that they are so quite people are stepping out in front of them.

I for one would never pay that much for a Hybrid or an all electric car. I would buy several cars of the same make and model like pre-smog Chevy's and use them for parts when they get run down, before I would pay $30k for a Chevy Volt or Ford.

MSRP*: $33,220 - $37,570 Chevy Volt

MSRP*: $29,120 Ford Focus

[em2nought]

My experience with pure electric golf carts has been you drive it about 500 miles over a three year period or so, and then you have to replace the battery bank of six for $300.00. Probably $450.00 now. :hmmm:

[Schroeder]

Another problem with electric cars is that they are so quite people are stepping out in front of them.

That's what sound modules are for. I believe some countries require them for electric cars (The Netherlands IIRC). So that's not really a problem that can't be solved.

My experience with pure electric golf carts has been you drive it about 500 miles over a three year period or so, and then you have to replace the battery bank of six for $300.00. Probably $450.00 now. :hmmm: That's one of my major concerns as well.

[Platapus]

The whole electric car, electricity station is a chicken-egg type problem

People will be reluctant to build charging stations unless there is a supply of electric cars to use, and pay for them

People will be reluctant to buy electric cars unless there is a population of charging stations.

I would like to have a small electric car for my daily commute... if The Frau could have the larger vehicle for the weekends and for transporting the dogs and stuff.

I wish I could afford (money and space) to own two cars myself. One small electric commuter car and one larger one for the weekends and trips.

[vienna]

France has just upped the ante:

France Plans to End Sales of Gas and Diesel Cars by 2040 --

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/06/business/energy-environment/france-cars-ban-gas-diesel.html





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[kcoun]

Just to clear the air a bit .. we will not be abandoning ICE (internal combustion engine) in 2019 (2020 MY) but rather all models will have an electric component such as pure plug-in electric, plug-in electric / gas hybrid and what is called "mildly hybrid" (like a Prius). Initially most vehicles will be electric/ICE hybrids. The gas component is expected to be around till 2025 or so. Currently the XC90 T8 Hybrid can be charged from any 220 outlet - full charge time 8 hrs. That is expected to drop significantly with engineering advances as is a maximum electric range anticipated to be close to 300 miles. Charleston SC will come online in 2018 and as a fully electic capable facility will then make all S60s worldwide. Currently plug-in electric hybrid adds about $12,000 to a vehicle .. that will need to drop significantly thru economy of scale and tech advances.

[em2nought]

France has just upped the ante:

France Plans to End Sales of Gas and Diesel Cars by 2040 --

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/06/business/energy-environment/france-cars-ban-gas-diesel.html
<O>
Just accounting for the influx of camels most likely. :03:

[Catfish]

Just accounting for the influx of camels most likely. :03:

:haha:
Well, camels go entirely by sunlight (pure plant engine), if you think of it. Very advanced..