Germany's Helmut Kohl dies, aged 87

[Nippelspanner]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40307918

In German TV, some channels interrupted their program for a special report.
It is interesting that a once so controversial person is now praised as if he was without sin. Far from it.

[Aktungbby]

Well at least they didn't '86' him! https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/6D80/production/_96523082_mediaitem96523081.jpgnone these politcal triumvirs "were for turning'':O:...illegal bank accounts and dementia notwithstanding.

[Skybird]

I never was and never will be a fan of him. Some very big mistakes by him for which we Germans, and all of Europe in a way, pay for until today, and for years and decades to come. Honestly said he did not acchieve anything that would not also have happend without him "helping" it - but he added some terrible mistakes and flawed assessments to it.

His early acceptance of the French demand for early implementation of the Euro against all economic reason as a price for French acceptance of reunification, was unforgivable, this price was way too high. And one could have known that already back then (and some knew for sure and wanred of it indeed). But he followed Adenauer definition of politics who saw national economy as arbitrarily manipulable and as a tool that had to serve foreign policy (thats why Adenauer and Ludwig Erdhard could not stand each other).

He also later put himself above the law.

An extremely overestimated German figure. Regrets for a loss - not from my side.

[Catfish]

I have to agree with Skybird, especially when it comes to him not being the "hero" of the unification of Germany, and for putting himself above the law. He should have been put in coercive detention, but we all know what happened, or better what did not happen.
He has been chancellor 16 years too long.
Rest in peace, but no encomium.
(had to look in the dictionary for this :oops:)

B.t.w. Mrs. Thatcher was all against the unification, and did all to prevent it. I remember the songs that were sung in England and Ireland, about her. So no fan of her either.

[Schroeder]

no encomium.
(had to look in the dictionary for this :oops:)


Thanks a lot, now I have to do the same.:-?

*uses dict.cc* Ah, ok that's what it means. I actually second that. At least I learned a new word (which I will forget again 5 minutes after writing this...)

[Nippelspanner]

Thanks a lot, now I have to do the same.:-?

*uses dict.cc* Ah, ok that's what it means. I actually second that. At least I learned a new word (which I will forget again 5 minutes after writing this...)

What word?

[Schroeder]

What word?

I forgot it again.:88)

*looks at Catfish's post* "encomium" is the word.:yep:

[Commander Wallace]

I didn't know much of him other than he was the Chancellor of Germany. I wasn't aware there was such a low regard for him and his policies in Germany. As in any post of a political nature, I will defer to those who reside in the country of Topic, in this case, Germany, and to those who dealt with whatever flawed decisions he may have made and had to live with them.


After all, Germany and it's citizens would know and understand his policies and decisions better than those of us who do not reside in Germany.

[Skybird]

^ Rest assured, there are enough Germans who become sentimental over him and refer to his title "chancellor of reunification". Its just that the official logbook of German history gets written by the establishment and the mainstream, and so this is not really surprising. People mistake coincidence of him being in office during reunification, with causality. Merkel, btw, was his direct creation, in a way, without his support she probably would not have been able to establish herself in the CDU and to form the network she needed to become chancelor. A favour he has done Germany with that - not. And with quite some other decisions not as well.

However, he (and Francois Mitterand) continued Helmut Schmidt's and Valery Giscard d'Estaing's reconciliation policy between France and Germany. This is something that even I have to recognize. Itsd just that this often was at the disadvantage of Germany, and culminated in Kohl's submission to Mitterands demand to defuse the German atom bomb (French for D-Mark) as price for German reunification. This led to the acceleration of the planned currency union and the economically unexcusable introduction of the Euro. Mitterand wanted to weaken Germany that way, to counter its growing weight after reunification.

If Mitterand still was alive today, I wonder if he still would think it was a good idea. As I see it, it backfired, currently still to germany'S advantage, but in the forseeable future, due to the immense foreign debts Germany has accepted to "finance", it will backfire once again - and then it could bring Germany to its knees.

Of all nonsense Kohl did, this is my biggest complaint about him. The price the French demanded - getting the Euro - was way too high.

Which puts French-German reconciliation into relation, doesn't it. How did former US ambassador Jack Kornblum put it on German TV some years ago, and shocked the German audience nationwide? "States do not have friends. States have interests."

[Skybird]

After all, Germany and it's citizens would know and understand his policies and decisions better than those of us who do not reside in Germany.

BTW, seeing things from outside must not always be a disadvantage. Often the foreigner can see certain things clearer, because he lacks the sentimentalities and habits of the natives - and their inbred blinders.

[Jimbuna]

I didn't know much of him other than he was the Chancellor of Germany. I wasn't aware there was such a low regard for him and his policies in Germany. As in any post of a political nature, I will defer to those who reside in the country of Topic, in this case, Germany, and to those who dealt with whatever flawed decisions he may have made and had to live with them.


After all, Germany and it's citizens would know and understand his policies and decisions better than those of us who do not reside in Germany.

Ditto but as a fellow human being I must say 'RIP'

[Hawk66]

I don't share the views of Skybird concerning Helmut Kohl, quite the opposite, and like very much the article in the New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/16/opinion/what-helmut-kohl-german-chancellor-taught.html)

[Nippelspanner]

I don't share the views of Skybird concerning Helmut Kohl, quite the opposite, and like very much the article in the New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/16/opinion/what-helmut-kohl-german-chancellor-taught.html)
Maybe you didn't dig deep enough.
No matter how hard I try, I can only come to the conclusion that Kohl was a despicable person, and politically also no saint/Heilbringer.

[Commander Wallace]

Ditto but as a fellow human being I must say 'RIP'


Well Said and I agree as well.


Rest in Peace.

[Aktungbby]

Russian President Vladimir Putin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Putin) said "I was lucky to know Helmut Kohl in person. I profoundly admired his wisdom and the ability to make well-considered, far-reaching decisions even in the most difficult situations." He called Kohl a "highly reputed statesman, one of the patriarchs of European and world politics."
Well, I'd guess There's no disputin' Putin!:o