London tower block fire: Flames engulf Grenfell Tower [Archive]

Aktungbby

06-14-17, 11:30 AM

"We can't have a situation where people's safety is put at risk because of bad advice being given or if it is the case, as has been alleged, of tower blocks not being properly serviced or maintained," he said.
Matt Wrack, of the Fire Brigades Union said something had clearly gone badly wrong with fire prevention procedures at the building.
Firefighters would normally fight a fire in a tower block from the inside, going up the fire escape, and fighting using the internal dry-rising mains, he said, but that's not been possible in this case.
Construction firm Rydon said recent building work which it carried out on the block "met all required building control, fire regulation and health and safety standards".:oops: :oops: This was always my worst concern at Geneva Towers (two twin 22 floor Federal subsidized housing bldgs); a veritable crack palace and vertical ghetto! http://www.foundsf.org/images/4/4f/Excelvis%24geneva-towers-1997.jpg (http://www.foundsf.org/index.php?title=File:Excelvis$geneva-towers-1997.jpg)where I was a grave-shift Lt. Two highrise Federal office buildings and the Oakland Federal twin Towers were also of concern but had modern fire protection incl. pressurized fire exits..... Fortunately in May '98, Genva Towers ceased to be a miserable problem in 15 seconds.. after months of denuding the structure of all asbestos related objects.:D A happy day!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iY6bMNYrzY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iY6bMNYrzY)

STEED

06-14-17, 12:46 PM

Seems the cladding on the outside is under investigation.

eddie

06-14-17, 07:02 PM

Saw on the news over here that some parents were trying to get people to help save their children, were dropping them down to the people below, sadly from the 8th floor!!:wah: I couldn't imagine the fear they were going through, thoughts and prayers go out to them all.

Jimbuna

06-14-17, 07:10 PM

Some eyewitness accounts are much worse than that Eddie but I'm not wanting to add to the tragedy.

God bless them all.

Reece

06-14-17, 07:13 PM

Wonder what caused the fire?:hmmm:

Anyone got some pics of what the building looked like before the fire?:doh:

fireftr18

06-14-17, 08:06 PM

I've been keeping up with it as far as I could today. This is truly among a firefighter's worst nightmare. I'm not going to try to speculate on the cause.

eddie

06-14-17, 08:14 PM

Some eyewitness accounts are much worse than that Eddie but I'm not wanting to add to the tragedy.

God bless them all.

I agree with you Jim. I was just so shocked to see it! I suppose we would have done anything we could to save our children from the fire too. I can't imagine the fear and horror they felt as the fire raged around them. Its beyond words really, and like you said, God bless them all.

As far as what I have heard as to the cause of the fire, only thing they said for sure that it started on the 4th floor, but the cause is unknown yet.

eddie

06-14-17, 08:35 PM

After what has happened in the UK these last few weeks, our thoughts and prayers go out to you all! hope you all can weather this storm of tragedy's lately, and come out ok. You guys have definitely had your share of tragic events.

Jimbuna

06-15-17, 05:24 AM

I agree with you Jim. I was just so shocked to see it! I suppose we would have done anything we could to save our children from the fire too. I can't imagine the fear and horror they felt as the fire raged around them. Its beyond words really, and like you said, God bless them all.

As far as what I have heard as to the cause of the fire, only thing they said for sure that it started on the 4th floor, but the cause is unknown yet.

Earliest reports suggest an exploding fridge on the 4th floor but the source is the tenant of the flat in which the fridge was located so not 'expertly verified' as yet.

Latest death toll figure is 17 and the Police are warning they expect that figure to rise further.

mapuc

06-15-17, 02:58 PM

Heard a little bit of it when I woke early in the morning. Didn't take notice of it, until I got up and watched the news. Followed the transmission from the ongoing fire. It was so terrible to see, so after about 1-1½ hours I turned to another channel and watched Horse race from England.

I have throughout of the day been hearing some of journalist saying or have quoted some police or firefighters from London, who have said that the death toll could very well be higher than 100.

Another thing

Some of my FB-friends are convinced its terror or maybe some racist who have created this fire(can't remember the correct word-is it Arson ?)

Markus

Julhelm

06-15-17, 03:30 PM

We had a huge fire a month ago here and it turned out to be a bed-smoker.

alboverburn

06-15-17, 04:54 PM

I believe that all tall buildings should have an external escape system, regardless if there are sprinklers in place or not.

Eichhörnchen

06-15-17, 05:47 PM

I agree with that... I'd want to get outside asap.

STEED

06-15-17, 05:55 PM

I see the blame game has started for flips sake that is not helping the situation.

fireftr18

06-15-17, 08:16 PM

It will be some time before the official cause is released to the public. I suspect the investigators will go through it very thoroughly and take a lot of time with it before reaching an official conclusion.

alboverburn, outside exit is a good thought. It's not done anymore because of issues with weather and maintenance. I can't speak for Britain, but I suspect it's similar to the US. The interior stair wells are isolated from rest of the building with a fire wall enclosure. Some buildings have pressurized stair wells. The hallways are supposed to be divided up with fire doors to limit smoke movement. If properly constructed, the stairwells and hallways should remain smoke free and safe. If not properly constructed, or if the safety features are over-ridden, they will not work as efficiently as designed. History shows it has tragic results.
I saw a layout of the building. It's what's called pedestal construction. There is a central supporting frame. Inside that frame is the stairwell, elevators and utility supply. The floor supports are attached to this, and often an auxiliary external frame. The external wall panels are what is called curtain walls. Very common with this type of construction. The panels simply hang from a framework and are there for waterproofing. As I understand, the panels were a composite of an insulating material and aluminum sheeting. Given how black the smoke was, I guess the insulation was petroleum based and not properly treated for fire proofing.

fireftr18

06-15-17, 08:49 PM

http://www.firefighternation.com/articles/2017/06/investigation-begins-in-london-high-rise-fire.html?utm_content=buffer3f872&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Commander Wallace

06-16-17, 07:09 AM

I've been following the events of Grenfell Tower over the last day. As
Fireftr 18 said, this is a fireman and rescuers worst nightmare.

Thoughts and prayers to all involved.

Moonlight

06-16-17, 08:37 AM

Money, money, money its all they ever think about. :doh:

Grenfell Tower: Original proposed contractor was dropped to reduce cost of refurbishment project

http://www.itv.com/news/2017-06-15/grenfell-tower-original-proposed-contractor-was-dropped-to-reduce-cost-of-refurbishment-project/

Aktungbby

06-16-17, 11:07 AM

From the WSJ: It's getting worse:
.... has raised questions about whether officials were too slow to address concerns about fire-safety measures in low-income housing. Residents had complained for years that the building wasn’t fire safe, and experts have suggested that the cladding on the building’s exterior may have contributed to the quick spread of the flames. London police commander Stuart Cundy said it is taking time to identify the dead and retrieve them because of the building’s hazardous condition. He said the death toll had reached at least 30, with 12 bodies taken to the mortuary and more still inside the building.
“I do believe the number [of dead] will increase,” he said. On Thursday, he had said he was hopeful that the toll wouldn’t reach more than 100 This was always my worst concern at Geneva Towers (two twin 22 floor Federal subsidized housing bldgs);edit: at least the firestair escapes were outside on the hallway exits....from which we patrolled each of 22 floors and three parking garage levels; five times a shift! Bed smokers, crack pipes (think Richard Pryor's accident here) and empty coffee makers left on were always issues. I always made sure my patrol partner could smell well...
Around 1:30 a.m. Wednesday, Jessica made two calls from a stranger’s phone to her mother, who was outside the building, to tell her she was making her way down the stairwell with some neighbors.
“She said ‘mummy can you please come get me,’ but they’d already stopped letting people in a couple of minutes earlier,” Mr. Ruiz said.
Mr. Ruiz said he and his family are regularly checking all hospitals that are treating the injured.
“We’re not giving up hope. It’s Jessica’s birthday next month.”
Interior unpressurized fire escape stairwells are smoke filled death-traps in older unrenovated highrises.

Catfish

06-16-17, 12:29 PM

It seesm it was just of all the new outside insulation, that burnt and spread the fire? I am not sure though, styropor does not burn so easily, or does it?

STEED

06-16-17, 04:26 PM

Money, money, money its all they ever think about. :doh:

http://www.itv.com/news/2017-06-15/grenfell-tower-original-proposed-contractor-was-dropped-to-reduce-cost-of-refurbishment-project/

And will they learn from it? No..

Platapus

06-17-17, 06:30 AM

It is sad that people have to die before corrective action is taken.

Let's not kid ourselves, there is a price on human life.

I don't think I would like to work or live in a high-rise building.

Built by the contractor who said they can build it the cheapest using materials provided by a supplier that could deliver it the cheapest. But they will not spare any expense on lobbying/donating politicians over coding/zoning issues.

All we can hope for is that these people did not die in vain.

Fix the problem!!

Cybermat47

06-17-17, 06:49 AM

Money isn't the root of all evil... but it's the root of a great many evils :nope:

I can't believe that Firefighters went in to that inferno. They deserve as much respect as the Military :salute:

Jimbuna

06-17-17, 09:26 AM

Schroeder

06-17-17, 12:30 PM

German media reports that at least 58 people have died. The number can still rise. :(

Jimbuna

06-18-17, 07:27 AM

I believe the highest potential figure could be 118.

Platapus

06-18-17, 11:13 AM

Money isn't the root of all evil... but it's the root of a great many evils :nope:

I can't believe that Firefighters went in to that inferno. They deserve as much respect as the Military :salute:

One definition of a hero is a person who voluntarily moves themselves from a position of safety to a position of risk to perform a selfless duty. Given that definition, firefighters are clearly heroes. :salute:

Btw, if you are indirectly quoting the bible, 1 Timothy 6:10 stated that it was the love of money that was the root of evil. Not money itself.

STEED

06-18-17, 02:24 PM

Probably going to be another white wash report.

Mr Quatro

06-18-17, 03:04 PM

I believe the highest potential figure could be 118.

They said the fire was so bad that some of the victims may never be identified.

STEED

06-18-17, 05:27 PM

While the rotten politicians stab each other in the back playing the blame game, I spotted a nice story..

A six-year-old boy has gone to the site of the Grenfell Tower fire to donate his pocket money, saying he felt "sad" for the people who had lived there.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40319204

STEED

06-19-17, 03:43 PM

So, who will drink from the poison chalice?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40321277

Wrong thread jim.

Jimbuna

06-19-17, 04:35 PM

Wrong thread jim.

Sorted....long hot day!!

Cheers.

STEED

06-19-17, 04:39 PM

Sorted....long hot day!!

Cheers.

Understandably. :yep:

fireftr18

06-19-17, 07:22 PM

It seesm it was just of all the new outside insulation, that burnt and spread the fire? I am not sure though, styropor does not burn so easily, or does it?

It depends on how it's made and what sort of fire protection is mixed with it. Panels like these come with both fire resistant and combustible insulation. A fire service slang term for expanded foam is "solid gasoline."

Reece

06-19-17, 08:27 PM

Sorted....long hot day!!

Cheers.
Funny way of saying alzheimer's Jim!!:yep:

Jimbuna

06-20-17, 10:17 AM

One Good Thing About Alzheimer's Is You Get To Meet New People Every Day.

Jimbuna

06-20-17, 11:15 AM

This video clip brought a tear to my eyes.

Clarita Ghavimi has been reunited with Luca Branislav, the man who rescued her whilst fleeing the fire in Grenfell Tower.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-40333946/grenfell-tower-fire-survivor-reunited-with-her-rescuer

Commander Wallace

06-20-17, 06:06 PM

This video clip brought a tear to my eyes.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-40333946/grenfell-tower-fire-survivor-reunited-with-her-rescuer

Great video and sad all at the same time. I'm sure there were many hero's of the Grenfell tower fire like this gentleman who are probably unknown except to those they rescued.

Tragic events like this seem to bring out the best in most people like this gentleman who was selfless. Here's to Luca Branislav. :Kaleun_Salute:

Mr Quatro

06-20-17, 06:50 PM

Where would the owners of the building be if this was China?

Jimbuna

06-21-17, 05:15 AM

Where would the owners of the building be if this was China?

Not looking forward to a particularly pleasant future I suspect.

Gerald

06-21-17, 08:19 AM

Survivors of the Grenfell Tower fire are to be rehomed in a luxury housing development in the heart of Kensington, the government has said.
Sixty-eight one and two-bedroom flats have been acquired at the Kensington Row development, it added.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40357280

Note: New update

Aktungbby

06-21-17, 08:41 AM

Where would the owners of the building be if this was China?

Not looking forward to a particularly pleasant future I suspect.

Donating a kidney or two on the 'firing' line I 'spect'.:O:

Jimbuna

06-21-17, 09:49 AM

Donating a kidney or two on the 'firing' line I 'spect'.:O:

Most definitely :yep:

Platapus

06-21-17, 03:03 PM

I sometimes admire how China handles "I take full responsibility"

STEED

06-21-17, 06:21 PM

Breaking News..

The chief executive of Kensington and Chelsea council has resigned amid criticism over the borough's response to the Grenfell Tower fire.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40362317

Jimbuna

06-22-17, 07:52 AM

Breaking News..

The chief executive of Kensington and Chelsea council has resigned amid criticism over the borough's response to the Grenfell Tower fire.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40362317

And so it should be but hopefully this will not be the end of the matter....those directly responsible (should the mistakes be proven to be criminal in context) should also be dealt with :yep:

Platapus

06-22-17, 03:07 PM

Under the law, are they still liable for their actions even after they resign? Or is resignation a way they can avoid accountability? I am not familiar with brit law

Jimbuna

06-23-17, 06:39 AM

As far as I'm aware there is no statute of limitations.

STEED

06-23-17, 06:47 AM

Grenfell Tower blaze started in Hotpoint fridge freezer, say policehttp://news.sky.com/story/grenfell-tower-blaze-started-in-fridge-freezer-10924716

Aktungbby

06-23-17, 10:56 AM

Of the tests carried out on the tiles and insulation, Ms McCormack said: "All I can say at the moment is they (tiles and insulation) don't pass any safety tests.
"What we are being told at the moment by the Building Research Establishment is that the cladding and insulation failed all safety tests." ON CNN this AM: 600 other tall tower type buildings ate being scrutinized and seven have the same cladding which gives off daedly hydrogen cyanide when burning. Some victims who escaped were treated for inhalation isues at hospitals. Some witnesses said that the external fittings acted as a ‘firelighter’ and helped flames engulf the tower within 15 minutes: Bear in mind that using a fire stairway in optimal conditions is approx. one minute per floor. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4606068/Cladding-company-covered-six-blocks-London.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4606068/Cladding-company-covered-six-blocks-London.html) Harley Facades Ltd. owner Ray Bailey( with 25 years of 'practical experience') https://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/2017/06/pri_43512482-e1497553435375.jpg?w=748&h=595&crop=1 is staying put in his mansion with this comment.... Speaking last night, Mr Bailey said: ‘This is an incredibly tragic incident. Our thoughts are with the residents and their families who have suffered such a personal loss. We will fully support and co-operate with the investigations into this fire. At this time, we are not aware of any link between the fire and the exterior cladding to the tower.’:oops: :hmmm: C'mon!http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/06/14/20/416962DD00000578-4601902-image-m-29_1497466827619.jpg but he's not only culprit to fail the Queen's honors list: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/15/long-builder-chain-for-grenfell-a-safety-and-accountability-issue (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/15/long-builder-chain-for-grenfell-a-safety-and-accountability-issue)

STEED

06-23-17, 03:56 PM

Camden Council will evacuate 800 households from five tower blocks tonight amid fire safety concerns.http://news.sky.com/story/camden-evacuates-tower-block-after-grenfell-fire-10925449

Hearing about this on LBC and some resident's are unaware of this! No knock on the door, one bloke rang in LBC and said he only knew about this because he had his radio on LBC.

STEED

06-24-17, 04:21 AM

'It's a shambles': Residents call last minute evacuation 'disgusting'
People on the Chalcots Estate in north London say they were given no warning before being told to leave their homes.http://news.sky.com/story/its-a-shambles-residents-call-last-minute-evacuation-disgusting-10925632

Typical sham, now the brown stuff has hit the fan costing human life the flap is on. This of course could have been prevented..

Jimbuna

06-24-17, 07:27 AM

By Saturday morning, 83 people had refused to leave their homes.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40391395

I'm not sure if the 83 people who refused to leave their homes are brave or foolish? :hmmm:

Given the choice and if I was resided on a double figure floor number I think I's have chosen to leave.

Moonlight

06-24-17, 07:35 AM

Camden tower block resident, 72, 'absolutely stressed' by upheavalYou can't do right for doing wrong, what the hell happened to that British stiff upper lip we used to have, ah yes I know, it looks as if we've been blessed with a limp soggy European one now, well I don't think that's a bloody blessing and it needs getting rid of and fast. :D

Me, me, me, me, me, those British citizens don't understand the consequences of what would've happened to the council members if anything had happened after receiving that news from the fire service, I can see why they wanted you out fast but you apparently can't, some people shouldn't be allowed to breed me thinks. :doh:

Obviously the council had to act quickly on this news from the fire department or they would all have been put under criminal investigation by the police if anything like Grenfell had happened in that tower block.

If a fire had taken place at that block of flats resulting in loss of life the claims by those residents would have resulted in hundreds of thousands if not millions of pounds in compensation claims.

You should be thanking the bloody council for taking urgent action you silly old bat instead of bloody moaning about it, a few days hardship is no comparison to being dead now is it. :up:

Mr Quatro

06-24-17, 11:02 AM

Breaking news: (no link due to it is ABC and they block the news with a video)

Over 800 north London public housing apartments being evacuated over fire safety concerns

The tower blocks, located in the Camden area of north London, are covered in the same cladding that surrounded Grenfell Tower, officials said. The buildings, which failed safety tests, will undergo emergency work over the next three to four weeks.

STEED

06-24-17, 04:35 PM

Cladding on 34 tower blocks in 17 council areas in England has failed fire safety tests, the government says.
The results mean every sample has failed the tests so far. The government plans to test up to 600 blocks.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40391395

Oh....

Jimbuna

06-25-17, 06:22 AM

Well, it now looks like evictions will eventually take place take place if those that are refusing to do so voluntarily try to remain....and rightly so.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40397302

STEED

06-25-17, 08:34 AM

Well, it now looks like evictions will eventually take place take place if those that are refusing to do so voluntarily try to remain....and rightly so.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40397302

I agree but the tactics used have been heavy handed and the lack of communications between council and residents has been a disgrace.

Aktungbby

06-25-17, 02:43 PM

Given the inter-corporate nature of the scandal, shoddiness of cladding, governmental lack of oversight, and potential 'scapegoat' ( Ray Bailey) I dub the whole fiasco....with 34 more buildings throughout the realm "Claddingate". It makes Oakland, CA's recent Ghostship warehouse fire (36 dead) appear minimal by comparison. On June 5, 2017, Almena and Ghost Ship creative director Max Harris were arrested and charged with felony involuntary manslaughter (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Involuntary_manslaughter) in connection with the fire. They face 39 years in prison if convicted. http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/ (http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/) Bail for the two non-owner scapegoats was set at over 1.000.000 apiece....But the city of Oakland is also seriously culpable for non-enforcement of safety standards. Oakland officials have repeatedly denied that fire and building officials were aware of the danger," the Los Angeles Times writes (http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-ghost-ship-fire-charges-20170605-story.html) although "public records released by the city in February show the building had been subject to at least 10 code enforcement complaints As a youngster in the 70's, I was an alarm agent and later fire-inspector for clients in the Bay area; responsible for inspections at hospitals, shopping malls, and care facilities for the severely handicapped. Inspection of heat sensors, water-flow sprinkler systems, and smoke equipment fell to me.... the burden of realizing that if you miss a piece of equipment...some person will not escape grows on you-even in rat infested crawlspaces and cobwebbed attics. Case in point: on a routine yearly inspection of my high-rise building im 1999> http://x.lnimg.com/photo/poster_1920/edc01061d81f4a9cb6bd39dd57ec301e.jpg with a fire marshal to certify: I as court bailiff/security officer on my first inspection; and my very astute building engineer opened the hallway phone-line closet on my third floor where the line conduit ran vertically 'twixt the thirty floors of the building's concrete floors- 3+ years new with a sophisticated pressurized fire escape system. Not overly familiar with the building; but having read the voluminous fire-escape/evac procedures for the building, I immediately noted the 3" phoneline pipe had a 1/4 " gap all-round the opening in the flooring and ceiling...!!! I innocently asked the engineer if it ''were possible to drop a dime from the top floor all the way to the basement through the gap?'' As in a 300' vertical submarine, the 30 'compartments' were thus not air-tight; the pressurized fire stairs would never function properly in a real smokey fire! The engineer and the fire marshal realized that, for three previous years, they had looked but not seen-the fire-marshal: "Good god! And I've been looking at this for three years!" - the problem was resolved that day with relatively simple inexpensive firberglass heat resistant sealant on all floors- and all those gorgeous secretaries in their stiletto heels could henceforth bug-out through the now more effective fire exits-I got a submarine sandwich from the well-stilettoed building manager for my astute observation! I am under no illusion that my case was unusual......:hmmm:

Cybermat47

06-25-17, 07:38 PM

I'm not sure if the 83 people who refused to leave their homes are brave or foolish? :hmmm:

I think they're suicidal.

Aktungbby

06-25-17, 07:50 PM

And roasted widow. I think they're suicidal.

WELL... in the case of some poor Gujarati-Indian immigrant lady who's husband has just keeled over from hydrogen cyanide cladding smoke in the livingroom : more a matter of traditional suttee on the settee :oops: :timeout: :doh:!!!??

Cybermat47

06-25-17, 08:19 PM

WELL... in the case of some poor Gujarati-Indian immigrant lady who's husband has just keeled over from hydrogen cyanide cladding smoke in the livingroom : more a matter of traditional suttee on the settee :oops: :timeout: :doh:!!!??

Damn mate, that's dark even by my standards :haha:

STEED

06-26-17, 10:37 AM

The US firm that supplied cladding thought to have been used on London's Grenfell Tower has ended global sales for use in high-rise blocks, it says.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40409981

Jimbuna

06-26-17, 10:54 AM

^ No big surprises there then :yep:

Aktungbby

06-26-17, 11:17 AM

Given the inter-corporate nature of the scandal, shoddiness of cladding, governmental lack of oversight, and potential 'scapegoat' ( Ray Bailey) I dub the whole fiasco....with 34 more buildings throughout the realm "Claddingate".

The US firm that supplied cladding thought to have been used on London's Grenfell Tower has ended global sales for use in high-rise blocks, it says. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40409981 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40409981)
Well!! the deeper corporate pocket has been found and poor scapegoat Ray Bailey may be relieved of duty!:O: http://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/emails-show-arconic-cladding-manufacturer-in-london-tower-fire-knowingly-supplied (http://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/emails-show-arconic-cladding-manufacturer-in-london-tower-fire-knowingly-supplied) Six e-mails sent by and to an Arconic Inc sales manager raise questions about why the company supplied combustible cladding to a distributor for use at Grenfell Tower, despite publicly warning such panels were a fire risk for tall buildings. The e-mails, dating from 2014 and seen by Reuters, were between Deborah French, Arconic’s UK sales manager, and executives at the contractors involved in the bidding process for the refurbishment contract at Grenfell Tower in London, where 79 people died in a blaze last week.
When asked about the e-mails, Arconic said in a statement that it had known the panels would be used at Grenfell Tower but that it was not its role to decide what was or was not compliant with local building regulations.The company manufactures three main types of Reynobond panel – one with a polyethylene (PE) core, one with a fire retardant core and another with a non-combustible core, according to its website.The company manufactures three main types of Reynobond panel – one with a polyethylene (PE) core, one with a fire retardant core and another with a non-combustible core, according to its website. Reynobond panels describe how PE core panels are suitable up to 10m in height. Panels with a fire resistant core – the FR model – can be used up to 30m, while above that height, panels with the non-combustible core – the A2 model – should be used, the brochure says.
Grenfell Tower is more than 60m tall. The brochure also issued a blunt warning that cladding can be a fire risk.
“When conceiving a building, it is crucial to choose the adapted products in order to avoid the fire to spread to the whole building. Especially when it comes to facades and roofs, the fire can spread extremely rapidly,” the brochure said. “As soon as the building is higher than the fire fighters’ ladders, it has to be conceived with an incombustible material.” The fatal fire was started by a faulty Hotpoint fridge-freezer in one of the apartments, London police said on Friday. Essentially one poor rivet on a fatally flawed Titanic- samo samo imho!
The UK uses a "principles-based" approach to regulation which puts an onus on companies to operate safely, based on common understanding of risks and the technology available.
This differs to the highly specific "rules-based" approach to regulation taken in the United States. As usual, the leading cause of death in the 21st century is still other people!... either by what they do or, equally, by what they do not do! The angel of death ain't real picky. http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/590x/secondary/Brochure-from-Arconic-973242.jpg<how three different cladding should have been used!

fireftr18

06-26-17, 08:03 PM

In my experience, people will believe a paid spokesperson for a company that stands to gain a profit over a well educated and experienced person that gets no financial gain or loss.

Catfish

06-27-17, 01:26 AM

In my experience, people will believe a paid spokesperson for a company that stands to gain a profit over a well educated and experienced person that gets no financial gain or loss.

add "anytime." :yep:

This is why our politicians always ask the operating companies whether e.g. our nuclear plants are safe. So all is well and "im Himmel ist Jahrmarkt". :O:
[~"...there's a carnival in heaven")

Seriously, most politicians have no idea of the job they are doing, or the ministry they work for. So they have to rely on someone's expertise. Now guess how many independent experts there are.

STEED

06-27-17, 07:32 AM

The investigation of the Grenfell Tower fire must leave "no stone unturned", an open letter to Theresa May has warned.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40415075

I agree but what I fear is the white wash tin coming out, so many inquiry's in the past have been white washed and I fear the same again.

Jimbuna

06-27-17, 09:30 AM

John McDonnell: Grenfell victims 'murdered by political decisions'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40401314

You can always rely on the loony left coming out with the most attention grabbing statements.

STEED

06-27-17, 11:36 AM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40401314

You can always rely on the loony left coming out with the most attention grabbing statements.

Is that the same loon who said something along the lines..million people march and over throw the government.

Aktungbby

06-27-17, 12:45 PM

Worse yet Arconic ( formerly part of Alcoa) has stopped selling panels for highrise buildings Reynobond PE; its market value since Monday has dropped $600,000,000 to $24.01 a share!:k_confused:Note: Reynobond PE is (specifically) not allowed on highrises in the US....??!!! JP Morgan analysts said 'several entities' were involved in the decision to use the cladding material, many of which may bear 'significantly more' responsibility than Arconic.... Because of of the inconsistency of building codes across the world and issues that have arisen in the wake of the Grenfell Tower tragedy regarding code compliance of cladding systems, Arconic is discontinuing global sales of Reynobond PE for use in high-rise applications. The panels will still be sold for use on low rise buidings that are generally more accessable to firefighters. (under 59' appox. 6 stories!!??) :()1: C'mon analyists:! Let's make that 58' will ya!

Jimbuna

06-28-17, 05:36 AM

Is that the same loon who said something along the lines..million people march and over throw the government.

Precisely :yep:

Aktungbby

06-28-17, 11:31 AM

Good lord! the real culprit has just been exposed; this is so deep! It's ex PM Tony BLAIR! Councils turned to cladding to meet standards set by Blair government scheme: Cladding became popular as councils sought to meet insulation standards laid out under the Blair Government's £22billion Decent Homes Programme, which ran from 2000 to 2010.
The programme's rules dictated that homes should have efficient heating and effective insulation, modern facilities and be in a good state of repair.
For high-rise council blocks, local authorities were faced with either knocking them down, meaning they would have to find or build homes elsewhere, or refurbishing them.
The latter option was much cheaper, despite the millions of pounds then pumped into the scheme.
In London alone, it is believed more than £820million in public funds were paid to contractors to make alterations.
Local authorities turned to cladding the outside of old council house stock, including tower blocks, in a bid to improve the buildings' appearance and the improve so-called 'thermal efficiency' ratings.
A press release by a cladding firm from the time stated: 'Over-cladding existing homes to improve their energy efficiency as well as aesthetics is proving the solution of choice for local authorities in their bid to meet Decent Homes standards.'
The statement gave examples in Bristol and Lanarkshire where cladding had been used to meet the terms of the programme.
A architect was quoted at the time saying: 'The main priorities were to eliminate water ingress, improve the thermal efficiency of the blocks, and enhance the physical appearance of the external envelope.' HENCHMAN #1 http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/06/15/08/416ED3B600000578-4605674-image-a-48_1497511620469.jpgRobert Black, boss of Grenfell's landlord Kensington and Chelsea Tenant Management Organisation, HENCHMAN# 2: http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/06/15/13/41711DA900000578-4605674-Rydon_s_CEO_Robert_Bond_pictured_with_his_wife_at_ a_classic_car_-a-20_1497530238452.jpgoverall rehab contractor Rydon's CEO Robert Bond: "the work 'met all required building regulations' and was signed off by the council's building control."

HENCHMAN #3http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/06/15/01/416D3EB300000578-4605674-image-a-8_1497487989854.jpgRay Bailey cladding contractor who used cladding panel specifically not to be used above 59 ' but has 25 years of 'practical experience' Fires involving cladding have also occurred in Australia, Russia and the Arabian Peninsula – adding to the serious safety concerns.
They include two in Dubai, one on New Year's Eve 2015 at the 63-storey The Address Downtown http://www.thenational.ae/storyimage/AB/20160120/ARTICLE/160129962/AR/0/&NCS_modified=20160121133806&MaxW=640&imageVersion=default&AR-160129962.jpg<Criticism was leveled towards the high amount of cladding (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cladding_(construction))—layers of material that are fixed to the outside of buildings for insulation—implemented into the building's design; it was reported that this cladding may have contributed to the fire's spread and a second last July 20 at the 75-storey Sulafa Tower....http://brightcove04.o.brightcove.com/4221396001/4221396001_5043139427001_5043092097001-vs.jpg?pubId=4221396001&videoId=5043092097001It continued to be used even after the 2009 fire at the 14-storey Lakanal House in Camberwell, South East London, which killed six people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakanal_House_fire (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakanal_House_fire) An inquest into the deaths at Lakanal House "found the fire spread unexpectedly fast, both laterally and vertically, trapping people in their homes, with the exterior cladding panels (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cladding_(construction)) burning through in just four and a half minutes". As in the case of the Grenfell Tower fire (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenfell_Tower_fire) eight years later, "the official advice was for people to remain in their homes in the event of a blaze. The inquest concluded that years of botched renovations had removed fire-stopping material between flats and communal corridors, allowing a blaze to spread, and that the problem was not picked up in safety inspections carried out by Southwark council.":k_confused:http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/06/15/01/416A163700000578-4605674-This_aerial_photo_taken_hours_after_the_fire_rippe d_through_the_-a-21_1497488256141.jpg
So much for practical experience! :doh: Funny thing...nobody dies in Dubai fires....:hmmm:

STEED

06-28-17, 05:12 PM

No final Grenfell Tower death toll this year, police sayhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40434741

fireftr18

06-28-17, 08:07 PM

This mess is going to go on for years, decades possibly.

Mr Quatro

06-29-17, 12:02 AM

Thank you Aktungbby for a real thorough report on the cladding problem complete with pictures. I know your not suppose to judge by outward appearance, but those pictures do reveal men that have done something wrong and made a lot of money at it. The $850 million dollars spent by UK's gov could've use a review department headed by Aktungbby along with some young college students (they could've saved millions).

By the way STEED what is your building covered in ... you could get rid of your neighbors, uh?

STEED

06-29-17, 06:45 AM

By the way STEED what is your building covered in ... you could get rid of your neighbors, uh?

:haha:

Jimbuna

06-30-17, 10:26 AM

This mess is going to go on for years, decades possibly.

I strongly suspect you are correct :yep:

STEED

06-30-17, 05:01 PM

Kensington and Chelsea Council leader Nick Paget-Brown has resigned following continued criticism of the council's handling of the Grenfell Tower tragedy.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-40461581

Dam right, what a bunch of swine who think they can kick the press and public out of a public meeting!

Moonlight

07-01-17, 06:56 AM

^I see the big government cover up is fast becoming a reality, I would assume that Paget-Brown and co have resigned after receiving some detailed legal advice and a nod and a wink from 10 Downing Street, It won't be long before the rest of the council go as well, and here's what I think is going to happen next. :yep:
The replacement council and housing association will argue that they are a different constituent body from that operating at the time of the Grenfell tower catastrophe and therefore cannot be prosecuted for the failures of the previous councillors.
That's a masterful stroke from Tory HQ for putting this one together as they will back this new council to the hilt on that one, in effect Paget-Brown and co are going to get away with it, and of course the right wing media will embrace all of the new recommendations in full as per usual.

Whitewash is complete, all they have to do now is to find some proper scapegoats to appease the great unwashed and its a job done well done. :up:

Jimbuna

07-01-17, 07:32 AM

STEED

07-01-17, 09:02 AM

I hope true justice will eventually prevail despite whatever attempt at cover-up is attempted.

It worked for those involved in the Hillsborough disaster and the lessons learned from that should help those from Grenfell.

The public will stand nothing less.

Look how long that took jim, far too long for true justice, I fear another White wash cover up as the powers to be can not be trusted or should be trusted who ever they are what ever the party maybe I just don't trust them.

Jimbuna

07-01-17, 09:13 AM

Look how long that took jim, far too long for true justice, I fear another White wash cover up as the powers to be can not be trusted or should be trusted who ever they are what ever the party maybe I just don't trust them.

I should imagine the Hillsborough outcome is still fresh in everyones minds (not even a week old) and as such is obviously in everyones best interests to sort out very quickly.

Failure to do so should put a final nail in Mays coffin.

Aktungbby

07-01-17, 11:40 AM

Whitewash is complete, all they have to do now is to find some proper scapegoats to appease the great unwashed and its a job done well done. :up: ALAS! poor Ray Bailey with his 25 years 'practical experience' will be 'Mr proper'; sort of knocking off the 'tail-end Charlie' in the responsibility chain-of-command coverup ( the LT Calley JR. of this 'MY LIE' massacre if you will) If you are asking why I did not stand up to them when I was given the orders, I will have to say that I was a 2nd Lieutenant getting orders from my commander and I followed them—foolishly, I guess." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Calley (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Calley)

STEED

07-01-17, 04:15 PM

The government will keep "a close eye" on Kensington and Chelsea council after its leader quit over the Grenfell Tower fire, the communities secretary says.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40468235

Not good enough.

STEED

07-01-17, 04:51 PM

Grenfell Tower fire survivors threaten to boycott inquiry

A victims' group says those affected will refuse to take part if the "systemic issues" that led to the blaze are not examined.
http://news.sky.com/story/grenfell-survivor-still-having-rent-deducted-by-council-campaigner-claims-10933289

I can understand that but don't as the result will play in to the white wash hands.

STEED

07-03-17, 06:58 PM

The Grenfell Tower public inquiry chairman is prepared to be "very broad" when looking at the causes of the fire, a senior source has told the BBC.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40486532

STEED

07-04-17, 05:31 AM

The judge heading the Grenfell Tower inquiry has been urged to stand down by the MP for Kensington, who says those affected need "somebody we can trust".http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40491449

The mess just gets bigger.

Jimbuna

07-04-17, 06:05 AM

Hillsborough all over again.

STEED

07-04-17, 06:13 AM

Hillsborough all over again.

What is comes down to jim fat pigs creaming off the money and milking the system while the victims suffer, total and utter disgrace. :nope:

Jimbuna

07-05-17, 06:01 AM

A taskforce will be sent in to take over parts of Kensington and Chelsea Council in the wake of the Grenfell Tower fire.

The team will take over housing at the council, as Police say they have recovered the last visible human remains at the tower.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40504145

STEED

07-05-17, 08:51 AM

^The cover up white wash has started.

Jimbuna

07-05-17, 08:55 AM

^ I'm not so sure as of yet.

Surely the mistakes and recent outcome to Hillsborough are still fresh in peoples memories.

STEED

07-05-17, 08:58 AM

^Politicians have short memories and bloody minded.

STEED

07-07-17, 06:21 AM

I see from the news the victims had a right ding dong with the judge.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40520596

Jimbuna

07-07-17, 08:41 AM

I can understand the residents anger, frustration and suspicions but give the guy a chance.

As I said earlier....Hillsborough all over again.

Aktungbby

07-07-17, 09:50 AM

^Politicians have short memories and bloody minded.

Separately, cladding samples which failed safety tests in the wake of the fire will be subjected to further "large-scale" testing - including building a 30ft-high (9m) demonstration wall to subject to a "severe fire".
Urgent tests were ordered on cladding from about 600 towers blocks in England after the blaze, but after 190 samples out of 191 failed, more tests were requested. :k_confused:
The tests will also assess how different types of aluminium composite material (ACM) panels behave with different types of insulation in a fire, the Department for Communities and Local Government (DCLG) said.
Two housing providers in Eccles and Salford, Greater Manchester have now suspended the removal of cladding on 20 high rise blocks because of "unclear advice" from the government. 'Bloody minded' foot-dragging imho; the buildings need to be immediately 'decladded' by the willing Mr Ray Bailey a 'practical man'...at his own expense! He can rename his firm: Harley D-cladding Ltd. After putting up his own mansion to help with expenses, the court may shave some time off his sentence for manslaughter as time served.

mapuc

07-07-17, 03:51 PM

After having read most of the comments in this thread about your local politicians and those with responsibility(people who are in lead of some organization or similar)

I came to think of a Danish saying "De står i kø ved håndvasken(=they are standing in queue at the washbasin. Meaning "politicians are trying to justify their actions or lack of action"

Markus

STEED

07-08-17, 05:03 AM

Why can't politicians stop thinking about themselves for once and get on with it, these people have gone though enough hardship without some twerp of a politician more concered about their image is my tie on straight!

Jimbuna

07-08-17, 08:27 AM

More details are now emerging.

A series of failings that hampered the efforts of firefighters to tackle the Grenfell Tower fire and rescue the building's residents have been identified by a BBC investigation.
Crews cited low water pressure, radio problems and equipment that was either lacking or did not arrive before the fire on 14 June got out of control.
Newsnight has learned a high ladder did not arrive for more than 30 minutes.
The London Fire Brigade says it has changed its procedures since the fire.
A high ladder will now automatically be sent to a fire in a tower.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40535417

Aktungbby

07-08-17, 08:53 AM

A high ladder will now automatically be sent to a fire in a tower.!
Nothing bad goes outta style either!https://s3.amazonaws.com/lowres.cartoonstock.com/military-attack-steps-castles-knights-soldiers-amc0523_low.jpg (https://www.cartoonstock.com/cartoonview.asp?catref=amc0523)

STEED

07-08-17, 12:21 PM

The London Fire Brigade says it has changed its procedures since the fire.
A high ladder will now automatically be sent to a fire in a tower.

Too late, it should have been done in the first place, who made the error should be sacked.

Jimbuna

07-09-17, 11:07 AM

Too late, it should have been done in the first place, who made the error should be sacked.

And that is precisely what one of the main reasons for an enquiry are....to get to the truthful facts.

mapuc

07-09-17, 12:19 PM

And that is precisely what one of the main reasons for an enquiry are....to get to the truthful facts.

If ain't a "controlled enquiry" meaning they have put this inquiry on its feet to calm the people and to find a politicians/other person who can be sacrificed or being the scapegoat.

Markus

Platapus

07-09-17, 12:30 PM

Hmm we have a report of a fire in a tower. Should we send the tall ladder??

Decisions decisions

Nah, what if the fire is on the first floor. Should not take the chance of sending a tall ladder to a tall building that is on fire. The ladder might not get used!

:doh::doh::doh::doh::doh:

Seriously, I can understand why a fire department would not automatically send all its equipment to a fire as they also need to maintain the capability of responding to a second fire. Sometimes there are two or more fires at the same time.

But statistically, what are the odds of two towers being on fire where the first one does not need a tall ladder and the second did? Fire tends to go up and you need to get people down.

Take the chance and send your tall ladder to the first tower that is on fire. You know that on is on fire. Why withhold a potentially critical piece of equipment on the chance that at the same time another fire might be reported?

Moonlight

07-09-17, 01:09 PM

There's a reason why Theresa May wanted a public enquiry and not an inquest one and that's because the Government are in charge of what comes out of it and what is not.
30 or 40 years from now the true facts will emerge and how parts of it were not divulged at the time so as not to incriminate people in the know, it won't be coming out of this one I can assure you of that.

Scapegoats and cover ups go hand in glove with the Government of the day and none of us will be any the wiser for it. :doh:

STEED

07-09-17, 02:44 PM

The whole truth will never ever come out not even after the guilty have all passed away and it's 100 years later.

fireftr18

07-09-17, 05:04 PM

More details are now emerging.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40535417

A poorly written article. It has bits of information, not really explaining anything. Too many "anonymous" sources. It reads as if they are trying to blame the fire department for something. There is some information that I know is incorrect, thus making me question the accuracy of the entire article.

STEED

07-09-17, 05:33 PM

A poorly written article. It has bits of information, not really explaining anything. Too many "anonymous" sources. It reads as if they are trying to blame the fire department for something. There is some information that I know is incorrect, thus making me question the accuracy of the entire article.

Are you suggesting the impartial BBC News that is not prejudiced for or against any particular person or side or party or anything on the whole unbiased news is telling lies? :hmmm:

Jimbuna

07-10-17, 12:31 PM

The Metropolitan Police believe there were about 255 survivors from last month's fire at Grenfell Tower.
Police say "extensive investigations" led them to conclude 350 people should have been in the Kensington tower block on the night of the blaze on 14 June.
That night, 14 residents were not in the building, leaving at least 80 people dead or missing, the Met said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40557126

Still far too early to make the above figures with any level of certainty.

Aktungbby

07-10-17, 12:52 PM

Well: 350-14=336-255= 81...! My biggest worry is the obvious vulnerability to residents of other similarly clad buildings to terrorists. Also the high percentage of immigrant population residing in the towers is very unfortunate as they had to have come to England, in many cases to improve their lives security-wise; an awareness of the lack which is now horribly apparent. This is most distressing.

Mr Quatro

07-10-17, 01:23 PM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40557126

Still far too early to make the above figures with any level of certainty.

The pictures of the people waving their towels out of the bathroom windows will always be with me ::o:cry:

Jimbuna

07-10-17, 01:42 PM

The pictures of the people waving their towels out of the bathroom windows will always be with me ::o:cry:

Yeah, I remember watching the events unfold live and saw two people jumping to their deaths. The events were only aired once before being cut out but my media box has a replay function and I went back and played the scene in very slow motion to ensure my initial observations were correct.....sadly, they were.

mapuc

07-10-17, 04:09 PM

The News here was showing the same thing directly from this terrible fire.

When seeing this unfolding in front of my eyes I came to think of a similar situation that happened about 16 years earlier.

It will not be the last time we will be witness to such terrible scenarios.

Markus

eddie

07-10-17, 04:38 PM

Remember that kind of thing from the Twin Towers on 9/11 Jim, couldn't believe it! And just how dangerous it was for the rescue teams trying to get in the buildings, getting hit by a body falling at that speed, was down right dangerous and they had to keep an eye out best they could.

eddie

07-10-17, 04:41 PM

Now another big fire at that market in Camden, glad no one was hurt this time round.

Jimbuna

07-11-17, 05:27 AM

Now another big fire at that market in Camden, glad no one was hurt this time round.

Rgr that :yep:

Catfish

07-11-17, 12:18 PM

Platapus

07-11-17, 03:45 PM

Just saw a reportage:
Laws are made in a way that those wo are responsible get off the hook easily, while the numbers of victims are "acceptable" and do not count, because it was only social housing for poor people, and a real renovation was considered as not worth it anyway.
I hope those heralds of free enterprise die a horrible death themselves :nope:

Yeah, I love it when I hear that we don't need government oversight because the free market will make businesses do the right thing. Trust corporations. Yeah, I used to believe that too, then I grew up.

STEED

07-11-17, 05:15 PM

Just saw a reportage:
Laws are made in a way that those wo are responsible get off the hook easily, while the numbers of victims are "acceptable" and do not count, because it was only social housing for poor people, and a real renovation was considered as not worth it anyway.
I hope those heralds of free enterprise die a horrible death themselves :nope:

It will be a white wash i know it the survivors know it the powers to be know it and most of the rest of the population know it. And who pays for this white wash us muggins the poor.

STEED

07-12-17, 05:51 AM

Search for Grenfell Tower victims may take four months, relatives warnedhttp://news.sky.com/story/search-for-grenfell-tower-victims-may-take-four-months-relatives-warned-10945297

Jimbuna

07-12-17, 10:15 AM

Survivors of the Grenfell Tower fire will "take a generation" to trust Kensington and Chelsea Council again, according to its new leader.
Elizabeth Campbell said "words and apologies" would not be enough, and the authority needed to take action.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40580176

Hardly surprising.

STEED

07-19-17, 03:04 PM

Burning cladding on Grenfell Tower would have released 14 times more heat than a key government test allows, the Victoria Derbyshire show has learned.
Energy emitted from the cladding and insulation would have been equivalent to burning 51 tonnes of pinewood, University of Leeds research suggests.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40645205

If proven that is disgusting.

STEED

07-19-17, 03:15 PM

Residents are expressing their anger at Kensington and Chelsea Council's first full meeting since the Grenfell Tower tragedy.http://news.sky.com/story/grenfell-heckler-calls-new-council-boss-murderer-10954447

Good for them.

fireftr18

07-19-17, 05:35 PM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40645205

If proven that is disgusting.

Here in the US, the fire service has nicknamed the foam "solid gasoline." It is a petroleum based product.

Jimbuna

07-20-17, 06:56 AM

It is way beyond me why the PM has not appointed commissioners to run the local authority until this mess is sorted out.

STEED

07-27-17, 05:58 PM

Grenfell Tower: Corporate manslaughter considered by policehttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40747241

Jimbuna

07-28-17, 06:25 AM

Should start giving some people more than a few sleepless nights and rightly so.

Aktungbby

08-03-17, 12:54 PM

...My biggest worry is the obvious vulnerability to residents of other similarly clad buildings to terrorists. Also the high percentage of immigrant population residing in the towers is very unfortunate as they had to have come to England, in many cases to improve their lives security-wise; an awareness of the lack which is now horribly apparent. This is most distressing. http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/uk-fire-tests-show-82-buildings-failed-cladding-48910259 (http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/uk-fire-tests-show-82-buildings-failed-cladding-48910259) British authorities have announced an independent review into building regulations after new tests identified 82 apartment towers whose cladding system failed to meet fire safety tests after the west London tower block blaze that killed at least 80 people....Experts have warned about risks posed by the cladding for years because some systems use highly flammable plastic foam insulation, which can rapidly spread fires once it ignites, as previously seen in Australia (http://abcnews.go.com/topics/news/australia.htm), China (http://abcnews.go.com/topics/news/china.htm) and Dubai. Even aluminum composite panels rated fire-resistant can be dangerous if they aren't properly installed....Many accuse officials in Kensington and Chelsea, one of London's richest boroughs, of ignoring their safety concerns because the public housing building was home to a largely immigrant and working-class population. :shucks: :yep: :hmmm: