Russian Spy Ship

[podunkpete]

Having been in NAVSECGRU working for the DIA, why is this being blown out of proportion? Spy ships routinely cruised the coast. Advances relegated the ships near obsolete, in fact the job at one point defaulted to the Polish "fishing fleet." Their radios were so bad messages were relayed through Havana radio so they could reach Russia. This is a political move, pure and simple, but I have to wonder why the media is going berserk. Do they have anyone to do research anymore? How sad that the U.S. does not have a fact based news reporting organization anymore. Please give me just facts with no intro or slant trying to mold my opinion. I'm old school and capable of drawing my own conclusions. One plus to this cruise, however, is the ability to "spy" on this ship and see if in fact the Russians are using new technology or simply sailing an old ship along the coast to cause a ruckus. What next, a "rediscovery" of shipping containers from foreign nations full of radio gear being driven past critical defense bases?:hmmm:

[Tango589]

Any chance of a good link?

[Buddahaid]

Shhhh! They're invisible....:hmmm:

[Tango589]

:haha:

[Gargamel]

I'm assuming he's referring to the one recently seen in international waters off the coast near Groton. The one Trump threatened to blow out of the water.

[Buddahaid]

I've no idea, but the thought of a craft of significance inside territorial waters being news laughable.

[Aktungbby]

Any chance of a good link?

http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-groton-sub-base-20170215-story.html (http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-groton-sub-base-20170215-story.html) Retired Cmdr. David Candler, who spent his career serving on and commanding submarines in Groton, agreed.
"I wouldn't make a mountain out of a molehill," Candler said. "It's a ship, but it's not the Great White Fleet. And it is not uncommon for all kinds of ships from all kinds of places to be all over the world. A military ship up here all by itself is kind of unusual. But these kinds of ships — and we do the same thing — go all over the place to stay reasonably accustomed to the waters." Business as usual.

[ikalugin]

If the ship was correctly identified here:
http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-groton-sub-base-20170215-story.html
Then it was accepted into service back in 1988 and was indeed built in Poland. Atleast one of the ships in that class did receive electronics refit in 2008 but not the specific ship identified. In my opinion they are just blowing the regular recon patrol out of proportion. I mean for all we know it could have been regular patrol related to new-START treaty.

[Oberon]

Nyet, is just trawler... :O: Crew likes to listen to radio, hence big aerials, nothing to see here.

[ikalugin]

I mean we have newer ships in that role.

[Jimbuna]

Much ado about nothing.

[Oberon]

I mean we have newer ships in that role.

The trawler ones always made me chuckle, I mean they even came with torpedoes! :o

[Jimbuna]

The trawler ones always made me chuckle, I mean they even came with torpedoes! :o

I remember the one with the towed array that was 'conquered' :03:

[ikalugin]

The trawler ones always made me chuckle, I mean they even came with torpedoes! :o
We called Grad launchers under Damansky "farming equipment" which lead to a humorous poem:

Я расскажу о вопиющем факте:
На берегах Амура, средь полей
Попался наш простой советский трактор
В прицел шести китайских батарей.
Ударил залп, снаряды полетели,
Но тракторист был парень с головой:
Он жмёт педаль — и вот не видно цели
В поставленной завесе дымовой.
А трактор взмыл над милой стороною
И в тот же миг агрессору в ответ,
Чтоб постерёгся нас пугать войною
Ударил залп тактических ракет.
А тракторист наш, капитан Литвинов,
Взглянул на карту и включил форсаж,
Спокойно отбомбился над Пекином
И заложил на родину вираж.
Он над Амуром выключил реактор,
Чтоб не пугать родных овец и коз.
Пронёсся в небе наш советский трактор
На дозаправку в свой родной колхоз.
И, если враг опять предпримет меры,
Чтоб помешать собрать нам урожай,
Приказом Агропром СССР-а
У нас на поле вылетит комбайн

[MaDef]

Used to see AGI's on a consistent basis off of Delmarva Peninsula monitoring traffic in and out of Norfolk & Little Creek all during the 80's. Those white domes were pretty distinctive.:03:

[Platapus]

If it stays in International Water, there is little we can do... and little we should do.

I also don't know why the press is making a big deal about this.

But there is so much anti-Russian propaganda going around, I guess this was just low hanging fruit.

Remember, the MIC needs a high tech enemy in order to survive.

Terrorism is getting old and does not require the development of expensive new weapon systems

North Korea is still the JV

China is not cooperating. They are too busy making money

So how to feed the MIC maw? Russia. no one likes Russia. The perfect adversary. They look scary but really can't do much.

Professionally, I am in favour of the MIC as it puts food on my table
As a tax payer, I am less fond of the MIC
As a citizen, I sometimes fear the MIC.

Its a complicated world.

[Mr Quatro]

What if this spy ship is a mother ship for underwater drones that sit on the bottom and find a pre-programed nuclear hissing noise that SSN's make and attempts to silently follow the sound while surfacing briefly to report it's position?

What if this was 2026 and this new ASW device had already been tested off our coast and was already in play :hmmm:

[ikalugin]

What if this spy ship is a mother ship for underwater drones that sit on the bottom and find a pre-programed nuclear hissing noise that SSN's make and attempts to silently follow the sound while surfacing briefly to report it's position?

What if this was 2026 and this new ASW device had already been tested off our coast and was already in play :hmmm:
Unlikely, as it is not the ship that we use in this role.

[mapuc]

The name of this thread got me into a "oh those days"

When we had exercises there were always one or two Russian trawlers nearby and they were heavily equipped with stuff that had absolutely nothing to do with fishing.

Markus

[Oberon]

I take it that he's just a standard signals sniffer?
Probably trying to see what Trump is going to tweet next while he's still composing the tweet. :haha:

[ikalugin]

I take it that he's just a standard signals sniffer?
Probably trying to see what Trump is going to tweet next while he's still composing the tweet. :haha:
Yea, from what I know (and I am not an expert) it has the generic ELINT/SIGINT/radar equipment, maybe even not the most modern kind. We did complete some newer recon ships recently and refitted some others but this one appears to be in condition close to the 1988 original.

Plus, recon ships usage is fairly common even those days, for example last year during a naval exercise in the Baltics we used a pr.20380 corvette to push out the NATO recon ship out of the area (we were exercising with hard kill counter torp systems in there).

[Oberon]

I guess it's cheaper than assigning a sub to shadow exercises. :yep:

[ikalugin]

Shadowing live torpedo launches against under water targets from under water may be... unwise.

[Oberon]

Shadowing live torpedo launches against under water targets from under water may be... unwise.

....touché :yep:

[Kapitan]

Russian isnt the only one to do this but we only hear about it when they do it, Norway actively buzzes Russian waters with its spy ships other nations in NATO also have similar capability France's Dupuy de Lôme commissioned 2006 is a recent addition plus Norway is building new spy ships.

So tit for tat gentlemen

[Aktungbby]

Professionally, I am in favour of the MIC as it puts food on my table

Likewise since 1994.... How soon we forget the USS Pueblo incident. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Pueblo_(AGER-2 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Pueblo_(AGER-2))

[Gargamel]

Russian isnt the only one to do this but we only hear about it when they do it, Norway actively buzzes Russian waters with its spy ships other nations in NATO also have similar capability France's Dupuy de Lôme commissioned 2006 is a recent addition plus Norway is building new spy ships.

So tit for tat gentlemen

That's the thing. Over there, this is common place. There's always some military vessel passing close to somebody's waters.

But over here on the Island of North America, we flip out when Aeroflot flies into JFK. Ok not really, but being isolated like we are has formed such weird xenophobic attitudes.

[Kapitan]

That's the thing. Over there, this is common place. There's always some military vessel passing close to somebody's waters.

But over here on the Island of North America, we flip out when Aeroflot flies into JFK. Ok not really, but being isolated like we are has formed such weird xenophobic attitudes.

Indeed we have similar ways in the UK for example the English channel is an international waterway open to ships of all flags as per international ruling and in accordance with IMO and SOLAS regulations.

When the Starry Oskol sailed from the builders on the surface it caused uproar in the British media, not only that when the Carrier group came through there was out rage in our media they don't report facts.

Why did i mention the above? because two weeks prior the mass media failed to report two Russian frigates also passed through the English channel

People believed the Russians were coming when they were using a short cut and having spent a lot of time in Russia i can tell you there is no appetite for war.

If you think the Russian moves are aggressive or provocative buy a map then plot every single NATO and allied military bases on it the reality is we have Russia surrounded from Japan and South Korea to The Baltic with Norway Denmark Poland and Germany and now the Steppes!, to the north Norway and the UK cover the Atlantic the reality is Russia can only really be defensive which is why it doesn't emphasis aircraft carriers in its naval fleet it bases its fleet on sea Denial to protect its coast hence why you see a lot of small missile corvettes and frigates. (although Russia is capable of global deployment on a limited scale)

[Oberon]

The US tends to use the P8A a lot, I see them doing circuits in the Chinese sea and out off the coast of Norway a lot, as well as the Med.

Speaking of sniffing about...did you guys over in Russia have a nuclear incident recently? Finland and France picked up some Iodine-131 in January.

http://www.irsn.fr/EN/newsroom/News/Pages/20170213_Detection-of-radioactive-iodine-at-trace-levels-in-Europe-in-January-2017.aspx

[ikalugin]

I only remember a nuclear accident in France recently, but I don't think that they had a release of radioactivity.

To be honest if you are looking for problems in the ex-Soviet power generation infrastructure you may be better off looking for problems on Ukrainian powerplnats, as those have issues.

[Oberon]

I only remember a nuclear accident in France recently, but I don't think that they had a release of radioactivity.

To be honest if you are looking for problems in the ex-Soviet power generation infrastructure you may be better off looking for problems on Ukrainian powerplnats, as those have issues.

It seems to have been somewhere in Eastern Europe, could be Ukraine. :hmmm:

[Gargamel]

Well, we know they have a history of doing that.....

*ducks*

[Kapitan]

That's the thing. Over there, this is common place. There's always some military vessel passing close to somebody's waters.

But over here on the Island of North America, we flip out when Aeroflot flies into JFK. Ok not really, but being isolated like we are has formed such weird xenophobic attitudes.

I only remember a nuclear accident in France recently, but I don't think that they had a release of radioactivity.

To be honest if you are looking for problems in the ex-Soviet power generation infrastructure you may be better off looking for problems on Ukrainian powerplnats, as those have issues.


its not just Ukraine its more to do with the reactor specifically RBMK fitted into plants like chernobyl there have been many across former soviet republics 161 accidents to date across the world

Kyshtem 1957 was one of the worst pre 3 mile island and chernobyl

however there have been incidents in other plants of the same design as chernobyl and they still operate today Tomsk 7 also had an accident

As for Chernobyl i have been there and seen it for myself and Chernobyl has been shut down since 2000

[ikalugin]

It is not about RBMKs specifically, it is about the state of the Ukrainian nuclear power generation in general. The powerplants themselves are fairly low on resources (some of that shortage comes from the general economic situation in the country, some from equipment and supplies being "donated" to the armed organisations in the country) and there are several potentially dangerous projects underway (such as the attempt to switch from Russian made fuel assemblies to American mades ones).

[August]

Having been in NAVSECGRU working for the DIA, why is this being blown out of proportion?

I'm guessing that the Dem press is hoping that Trump will overreact to it. To them the risk of war is secondary to making the administration look bad.

[Buddahaid]

I'm guessing that the Dem press is hoping that Trump will overreact to it. To them the risk of war is secondary to making the administration look bad.

Not buying that.

[August]

Not buying that.

Ok then why is it suddenly front page worthy news when every time it's happened before it wasn't?

[Buddahaid]

Because anything Russian is a hot topic now. I'm not buying the war part. If Trump makes national security decisions based on media reports, which he labels fake news anyway, instead of national security advisers, oh wait he doesn't have any because nobody wants the job and he's in open conflict with the intelligence services. Sure that's the media's fault and not some intrinsic fault in is character because it's never his fault on anything. The man is a charlatan.

[Jimbuna]

Because anything Russian is a hot topic now. I'm not buying the war part. If Trump makes national security decisions based on media reports, which he labels fake news anyway, instead of national security advisers, oh wait he doesn't have any because nobody wants the job and he's in open conflict with the intelligence services. Sure that's the media's fault and not some intrinsic fault in is character because it's never his fault on anything. The man is a charlatan.

There is a growing feeling of agreement on that opinion here in the UK as far as I can ascertain :yep:

[Gargamel]

I'm guessing that the Dem press is hoping that Trump will overreact to it. To them the risk of war is secondary to making the administration look bad.

Well, he's on record saying we should blow it out of the water....

[August]

Well, he's on record saying we should blow it out of the water....

Actually no he didn't. You could only get that impression if you cherry pick the quote.

Mr. Trump himself referred to the ship at a marathon news conference on Thursday, saying that his critics probably think “the greatest thing I could do is shoot that ship that’s 30 miles offshore right out of the water. Everyone in this country’s going to say, ‘Oh, it’s so great.’ That’s not great. That’s not great.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/16/us/politics/russian-ship-vessel-usa.html?_r=0

See?, pretty much the exact opposite.

[Oberon]

We have a very talented man, Rex Tillerson, who’s going to be meeting with them shortly and I told him. I said “I know politically it’s probably not good for me.” The greatest thing I could do is shoot that ship that’s 30 miles off shore right out of the water.Everyone in this country’s going to say “oh, it’s so great.” That’s not great. That’s not great. I would love to be able to get along with Russia. Now, you’ve had a lot of presidents that haven’t taken that tack. Look where we are now. Look where we are now. So, if I can — now, I love to negotiate things, I do it really well, and all that stuff. But — but it’s possible I won’t be able to get along with Putin.


It wasn't so much his critics that was aimed at, but the whole of America, note he says 'everyone in this country's', not 'all my critics would say', because let's face it, if Trump shot or didn't shoot, his most critical critics would hate it anyway. No, this was what would make him more popular politically because of what he deems to be the anti-Russian sentiment amongst the American populace which he considers himself to be rallying against.

[Kapitan]

Shooting a ship regardless of its purpose in international waters is an act of war, do you not thing that Russia would want retribution ? what about the Norwegian Marajata that sails regularly off the northern coast of Russia just a mile beyond the 12nm limit he is talking about a vessel that is sat 30 miles out.

[Catfish]

Maybe Trump can push its territorial waters to the mid-atlantic again, to provoke an incident.. Momp anyone?

[August]

So Trump has said he wouldn't shoot at the stupid Russian ship yet you guys just continue talking like he said the exact opposite.

What I can't figure out is if you actually believe it.

[Kapitan]

I am aware of what trump said

I'm generalising not using what he said as anything in my above post merely stating a fact and likely further outcome if

And let's be clear on this

Any side started shooting at the others in international waters

[Jimbuna]

Maybe Trump can push its territorial waters to the mid-atlantic again, to provoke an incident.. Momp anyone?

It's certainly working for the Chinese in the South China Sea atm.

[Delgard]

The press, whatever its political leaning, wants to create drama. It sells, it creates hyperbole. The Russians, and the Soviets before them, had collection ships and collection sites. This is no different, and, the U.S. probably does a lot of it, too.

Putin grew up in KGB field operations. He thinks in a tough, Cold War manner.