Oroville Dam spillway damage

[mako88sb]

Some pretty incredible video of the largest dam in California/USA and the potential problems that could happen. We have some friends that live near Sacramento so hopefully, they are above the flood plain:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3x4r7jmD9Y

[Sailor Steve]

Wow! That's some good footage. Thanks for posting that.

[Rockstar]

Here's a good read that helps explain what's going on at Oroville.

https://letsgola.wordpress.com/2017/02/11/the-state-water-project-an-introduction/

[Rockstar]

Oroville damn now expected to fail evacuations underway.

http://www.sacbee.com/news/state/california/water-and-drought/article132332499.html

[Oberon]

That is...not good. 100 feet deep in some places?

Fingers crossed it doesn't give way.

This chap on youtube is streaming KCRA and KRCR, pardon the name and stuff, but it's a good stream so far:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhzKVdSnPmg

KCRC streaming here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yF3j82YEsTo

[Onkel Neal]

My niece lives just south of Yubba City, she's on her way to Sacramento. I'm guessing she is going to get stuck in the interstate traffic. I wish I was there.

[Oberon]

My niece lives just south of Yubba City, she's on her way to Sacramento. I'm guessing she is going to get stuck in the interstate traffic. I wish I was there.

At least if it's coming down the emergency slipway, even if it's uncontrolled, it's taking pressure off the dam itself, so hopefully although there's going to be a bit of localised flooding along the river the actual dam itself will hold fast.

[AndyJWest]

At least if it's coming down the emergency slipway, even if it's uncontrolled, it's taking pressure off the dam itself, so hopefully although there's going to be a bit of localised flooding along the river the actual dam itself will hold fast.

From the reports I've seen the issue is that the flow over the emergency spillway is itself causing erosion of what is basically an unprotected surface, and if that gets bad enough it could fail there: which is why they are ordering evacuations.

[Oberon]

My niece lives just south of Yubba City, she's on her way to Sacramento. I'm guessing she is going to get stuck in the interstate traffic. I wish I was there.

They have any pets? Just saw two girls with six pets between them heading down to a hotel in Sacramento on KCRA. They were at a gas station at Plumas lake. Glad to see that they're putting in place areas where people can take their animals and they're making lists so that people know which ones to go to.

From the reports I've seen the issue is that the flow over the emergency spillway is itself causing erosion of what is basically an unprotected surface, and if that gets bad enough it could fail there: which is why they are ordering evacuations.

Yeah, I've just seen similar reports, talking about the potential for a thirty foot hole in the emergency spillway area which is going to let a lot of water out from the lake.

Apparently they're planning on dropping some rocks into the gap at daylight tomorrow to try and control things a bit more.

[fireftr18]

Acting, are you anywhere near this?

[Oberon]

I think he's closer to the coastline, hence his need to frequently rearrange his household when the San Andreas coughs.

[Aktungbby]

Acting, are you anywhere near this?

I think he's closer to the coastline, hence his need to frequently rearrange his household when the San Andreas coughs. Ongoing close to home along the greasy green banks of the Rio Napa:
http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/napavalleyregister.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/d/d6/dd66ae83-a2a2-5182-ac41-1df7cc9e61dc/589a21c64716e.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C800and a thousand yards to the west-two giant redwood trees with mudslide: http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/napavalleyregister.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/6/67/667d4fd5-9eac-59f9-814e-6c088dfc582b/589a21c83063d.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C800 Just to the North and very similar to what I drove through on Tuesday's initial storm at 0000 hrs high tide...doesn't look so bad in the day time!:http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/napavalleyregister.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/3/42/342e0dfb-e6e4-5f5c-b055-9101a4102f6b/589a21c237875.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C800 http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2464181&postcount=499 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2464181&postcount=499) NOTE: just drove this route again today for work from San Francisco with some detours (40 extra miles) around still closed roadways; still wet but passable till the next weather front hits. But that's just all local soggy tactics; the statewide agricultural strategy is: the drought is over BBY!(in the Northern state any way!):yeah:Bottom line: all 2 the long-term good if a not an expensive pain in the ass! With the horrendous fires (CobbMtn/Middletown-50 sq. miles 1200 homes etc) and quakes... this is the lesser of three evils and California is the world's 6th large$t economy...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_between_U.S._states_and_countries_by_GD P_(nominal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_between_U.S._states_and_countries_by_GD P_(nominal)) And no one's dead yet:up: EDIT as of 22:15 on live news : the community of Oroville has just been ordered evacuated. 156,000 people gotta go quick. http://www.trbimg.com/img-589f8333/turbine/la-me-lake-oroville-spillway-pictures-028/750/750x422RULE ONE OF BIG DAM integrity: do not have a sinkhole in your spillwayhttp://www.trbimg.com/img-589de180/turbine/la-me-lake-oroville-spillway-pictures-002/750/750x422

[mako88sb]

Oroville damn now expected to fail evacuations underway.

http://www.sacbee.com/news/state/california/water-and-drought/article132332499.html

From what I've been reading, it sounds like the dam's integrity is still okay. The possible problem is the emergency spillway and the erosion that might work its way back to it. If that did let go, it would be about 30 feet of the dams contents being released which is still enough of a worry to justify the evacuation. At any rate, it looks like the main spillways flow rate being increased to 100,000cfs has lowered the lake level enough to stop the flow over the emergency spillway. Hopefully the worst is over but more rain in the forecast could see this situation escalate again.

[Aktungbby]

^ Update: 188,000 persons are now under evacuation advisory generally with an hour's notice; the traffic looks abysmal.http://www.mercurynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/sjm-evacuate-0213-04.jpg?w=810 Two prisons are in the path of danger; no word on the prisoner's solution as yet. 'copters are dropping bags of rock into the eroded spillway. Good news: the water level has dropped and is no longer going over the emergency spillway but the threat remains-three days of dry weather till the next front hits. The National Guard is activated.
ALERT-ALERT-ALERT -- Yes, an evacuation has been ordered. All Yuba County on the valley floor. The auxiliary spillway is close to failing. Please travel safely. Contact family and friends. Help the elderly.
Take only routes to the east, south, or west. DO NOT TRAVEL NORTH TOWARD OROVILLE!!!!!THIS IS NOT A DRILL
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4gWEn3WYAIcqlW.jpg

[mako88sb]

Seems to be lots of finger pointing going on already about why the flow rate wasn't increased sooner but the circumstances are reminding me of what we went through in June/2013 here in Calgary/Southern Alberta. We had much higher than usual rainfall in the mountains but the real problem was the snowpack being melted and the ground still being frozen enough that the mountains simply couldn't absorb enough of it. What seemed to be a higher than normal spring run-off situation quickly escalated out of control. I believe it worked out to a 500-year flood event.

[Mr Quatro]

More rain coming wednesday, thursday, friday and saturday for Redding, Red Bluff, Chico and Oroville, California:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyZD7eoHZT8

[AVGWarhawk]

Now the governor is asking for Federal assistance. Is the the same state that wanted to succeed from the union and thumbed their noses at the Feds over issues like sanctuary cities? :hmmm:

[Rockstar]

All this talk of secession, everyone knows the republic is like the Hotel California. You check out anytime you want but you can never leave. In fact I think thats what I'll start telling others what country I live in. :D

What country you from? Hotel California.

[AVGWarhawk]

Maybe money would have best been funneled to infrastructure. Just a thought.

[Buddahaid]

Very naive statements.

[AVGWarhawk]

Very naive statements.

Do tell? 2013 the systems was noted as needing repair.

[Buddahaid]

Do tell? 2013 the systems was noted as needing repair.

Not that, I mean about painting California as a one stripe blue vs. red state and that just everyone that lives there bust be protesting for secession. It is a big state where pretty much any place away from the major urban centers is as red as any red state.

[Aktungbby]

circumstances are reminding me of what we went through in June/2013 here in Calgary/Southern Alberta. But in Oroville, it's an evacuation...in Calgary, it's a stampede!:D

[AVGWarhawk]

Not that, I mean about painting California as a one stripe blue vs. red state and that just everyone that lives there bust be protesting for secession. It is a big state where pretty much any place away from the major urban centers is as red as any red state.

Got ya! Yes, I understand the entire state is not for succession. Personally, I think talk of succession is disingenuous. TX talks about it like the weather. But, the sanctuary cities and the nose thumbing, does not sit well after shrugging off Trumps cutting of funding.

[Oberon]

I recall seeing figures that indicated that Oroville voted Trump anyway, so like you say, it's all a bit more convoluted than it first looks.

[Gargamel]

Well, in the present moment, politics shouldn't have a seat at the table, they should be pushed aside until the crisis is over. The state is still part of the Union, and therefore has the right to federal assistance.

Saying 'I told ya so!' Does nothing to help the situation now. That is all for investigation after the fact.

What they need now is a way to rapidly secure the dam, and get these people back to their homes. We don't know what industries might be affected by these evacuations, and what effect that might have on global economies.

You might scoff at that notion, but the company of 300 people I work for, if they burned to the ground tomorrow, there would be a noticeable uptick in the global cost of chlorine within a month or so, and then a few months after that, an increase in petroleum and plastic costs.

[Platapus]

It is far more important to find a point of blame, especially if it can be used for political purposes than actually trying to fix the problem.

That's the sad state of our political environment.

I imagine it is only a matter of time before 911 dispatchers start asking who people voted for before sending out the FD/EMS.

[AVGWarhawk]

Well, in the present moment, politics shouldn't have a seat at the table, they should be pushed aside until the crisis is over. The state is still part of the Union, and therefore has the right to federal assistance.

Saying 'I told ya so!' Does nothing to help the situation now. That is all for investigation after the fact.

What they need now is a way to rapidly secure the dam, and get these people back to their homes. We don't know what industries might be affected by these evacuations, and what effect that might have on global economies.

You might scoff at that notion, but the company of 300 people I work for, if they burned to the ground tomorrow, there would be a noticeable uptick in the global cost of chlorine within a month or so, and then a few months after that, an increase in petroleum and plastic costs.

It is far more important to find a point of blame, especially if it can be used for political purposes than actually trying to fix the problem.

That's the sad state of our political environment. I imagine it is only a matter of time before 911 dispatchers start asking who people voted for before sending out the FD/EMS.


Tell that to Chris Christie as he hugged Obama after hurricane Sandy. Saying "stuff it where the sun don't shine", does not win and influence friends either. But hey, still part of the union so cut the check. Tomorrow the state will do what it can to discredit the current administration.

It is highly unlikely the town of Oroville will have a profound affect on the global economy. Please dispense with the melodramatics.

Further, the dam was said to need repair in 2013. The Feds said no. There you have it. It is not a case of "I told you so." It is a case of not addressing the problem 4 years ago.

[vienna]

For the vast majority of Californians, the whole secession issue is pretty much either ignored of treated as just another one of the many fringe lunacies that pop up from time to time. As was mentioned before, other states, notably Texas, have had such rumblings before, but they are hard to take seriously mainly because any serious attempt would face an uphill battle that would make Sisyphus look like an overachiever; the chances are nil and less than nil...

As far as CA asking for federal funds, the US pretty much needs CA a bit more than CA needs the US; CA ranks as the 6th largest economy in the world following the U.S., China, Japan, Germany and the United Kingdom, in that order. The only other state even close to CA's ranking is Texas, which ranks as 12th largest, mainly due to its petroleum industries. CA has a broad and diverse economy and is at the forefront of newer industries and enterprises such as digital technology and alternate energy research and application. When DC threatened to cut off federal funds to CA, the state government floated the idea of simply ceasing to pay the Feds their share of revenues accrued in CA and diverting the funds internally to the state; given that the amount of revenue normally sent to the Federal coffers significantly exceeds the federal funding sent back to CA, simple math would tell you who would be the loser if CA withheld revenues. After the idea of withholding was floated, the noise from DC about cutting Federal funds quieted down noticeably. Texas could learn from this: instead of continually threatening to secede from the US, just threaten the Feds where it hurts -- in the wallet...

Gargamel and Platapus are right; this crisis is not a time for politics. If any of the politicos at any level, local, state, or federal, think they are going to score brownie points for either themselves or their parties by turning this into another 'us vs. them' game, they may be in for a shock. The public outpouring of support for the plight of the more than 100,000 citizens evacuated and the 100s of thousands more who face harm if the dam fails goes across all political lines and holdings. I would not want to be the politician who seeks to profit from others misery. Fix first, argue later; and whoever or whatever is the most able to accomplish the fix the best in the least amount of time will be in a far better position, politically, and morally, to earn the trust of the citizens. We don't care who does it as long as it gets done and done right...

Here's a link to the latest from the LA Times:

http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-live-updates-oroville-dam-how-the-oroville-dam-situation-became-a-1486958195-htmlstory.html



<O>

[Rockstar]

Lets not go full Nagin.

[Gargamel]

It is highly unlikely the town of Oroville will have a profound affect on the global economy. Please dispense with the melodramatics.

Well, since I assume you have a complete census of every industrial or commercial facility affected by the evacuation, you would obviously know more than I.

[vienna]

...and Ray Nagin applies to this situation, how?...




<O>

[Buddahaid]

....It is highly unlikely the town of Oroville will have a profound affect on the global economy. Please dispense with the melodramatics...

Maybe not Oroville, but a very significant amount of the water going to southern California come from that reservoir but it's OK because there are only surfers and movie stars there.

And from the link above and here.
https://letsgola.wordpress.com/2017/02/11/the-state-water-project-an-introduction/

...The SWP is an important source of water for SoCal, and Lake Oroville is the main reservoir. While popular conception hold that LA’s water comes from the east Sierra and Owens Valley via the LA Aqueduct, over the last 5 years, that facility has only delivered 29% of LA’s water. The SWP is the largest supplier of water to the city of LA, with 48% of LA’s water over the last 5 years coming from the SWP. So what happens at Lake Oroville is of interest to, well, anyone south of Lake Oroville...

[vienna]

...not to mention the loss of hydroelectric production:

http://sf.curbed.com/2017/2/13/14597746/oroville-dam-spillway-failure

Along with agricultural loses, also...




<O>

[Mr Quatro]

(OROVILLE, Calif.) — Nearly 200,000 Northern Californians who live downstream of the country's tallest dam were allowed to return home Tuesday after two nights of uncertainty, but they were warned they may have to again flee to higher ground on a moment's notice if hastily made repairs to the battered structure don't hold.

http://time.com/4671443/california-oroville-dam-evacuation-lifted/

The water comes from snow pack to Lake Oroville and the dam releases the water to Feather River which leads to the Sacramento River ... after that I do not know where it goes.

Sacramento to San Francisco Bay perhaps?

[Oberon]

The scale of the damage:

http://blogs.agu.org/landslideblog/2017/02/14/oroville-dam-site/

[Aktungbby]

Tell that to Chris Christie as he hugged Obama after hurricane Sandy. Saying "stuff it where the sun don't shine", does not win and influence friends either. But hey, still part of the union so cut the check. Tomorrow the state will do what it can to discredit the current administration.

It is highly unlikely the town of Oroville will have a profound affect on the global economy. Please dispense with the melodramatics.

Further, the dam was said to need repair in 2013. The Feds said no. There you have it. It is not a case of "I told you so." It is a case of not addressing the problem 4 years ago.


The water comes from snow pack to Lake Oroville and the dam releases the water to Feather River which leads to the Sacramento River ... after that I do not know where it goes.

Sacramento to San Francisco Bay perhaps? Precisely and fills my marina with silt and serious flotsam crud-One whole dock (of 7) is a carpet of sticks, driftwood and plants. The entire Carquinez Strait (portion of the Sacramento River leading to San Pablo Bay and the Bay/ Golden Gate to the Pacific Ocean) is a log-infested mess at he mouth of the Sacramento\Napa confluence as I found out first-hand last Thursday: the (only)sunny sailing day this last fortnight (the captain's a diehard!:oops:)I manned the bow with a large boat-hook at all times. I presume that Oroville's denizens will B better-prepared for the next evac with gas-tanks filled and snacks/clothes in the trunk to avoid the next exodus/Skedaddle jam.:yeah: http://www.mercurynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/sjm-evacuate-0213-04.jpg?w=810 I keep the outside-parked Corolla so stocked in case the garaged cars are trapped (no power to the rollup-door) and any 'quake damage requires a new abode-relocate on a moment's notice. SOP after Loma-Prieta and two damaging Napa tremors. ie: My whole street, incl the Cal-Fire chief across from me, knows where my gas-main wrench is(atop the meter) and the first one to it has the duty to prevent fires from gas line ruptures/leaks. We closed three houses after the last one and smelled gas from rupture 3" pipe under the sidewalk... one lot over from my property...adjacent to the street-length sewer which could then fill with explosive gas.:doh: PG&E was on it immediately.

[Schroeder]

BTW here is a short documentary about how they build the dam back in the day: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyPkWlYlSC8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyPkWlYlSC8)

[propbeanie]

Very interesting "public service" video. After seeing it, and the long shots of the dam under normal conditions, you can see that the Feather River runs at a 90 degree angle from the dam and spillway, which was probably a contributing factor to the undercutting - no "free-flow" under high water conditions, so it "swirled" at the base...

[AVGWarhawk]

Well, since I assume you have a complete census of every industrial or commercial facility affected by the evacuation, you would obviously know more than I.


So you can produce this census of every industrial or commercial facility affected?

[Oberon]

http://imgur.com/gallery/mpUge

http://i.imgur.com/QaDbboN.png

Got to admit, Trumps infrastructure plans, if he can get the money for them, are something I do approve of, if it's done properly and not haphazardly by the lowest bidder.