Royal Navy's entire fleet of attack submarines out of action

[Onkel Neal]

Royal Navy's entire fleet of attack submarines out of action (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/royal-navy-submarine-fleet-world-class-claims-out-of-action-order-maintenance-attack-subs-trafalgar-a7572746.html)



The Royal Navy has insisted it has a "world-class fleet" after a report claimed all seven of its attack submarines were out of action.

The service's four Trafalgar​-class boats and the three newer Astute-class are not ready for missions with just one at sea, it has been claimed—and that submarine is on trials after maintenance.

The Sun reported that repairs and maintenance were keeping the craft from their patrols.

Sources told The Sun the Trafalgars, the last of which was built in 1986, were "on their last legs".

Theresa May has dodged four times a question on whether she knew about a Trident nuclear missile malfunction ahead of a Parliamentary debate. (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-trident-andrew-marr-interview-cover-up-watch-video-a7539896.html)

Sounds like the #2 NATO partner needs to step up their game and commit some resources to their navy. Only seven attack subs? And none capable of doing their job? That's not good.

[Oberon]

Transition periods, they're always a sod. Seven SSNs is all we're getting though, even when the Astutes are all online and the Traffies withdrawn we're only going to have seven Astutes, we only had seven Traffies, but we also had the Swiftsures running down at the same time (and there was only ever six of those). Our SSN fleet hasn't really gone above double figures in decades. We just don't have the manpower or money for it, and I can't see that changing post-Brexit.
Pretty unusual for all of them to be offline at the same time though, I mean they're not that old, no older than the Los Angeles class. Must be that the problem lies more with maintenance costs and scheduling.
Not too surprised that Astute might be offline though, she's been a bit of a problem boat since her launch, and Ambush ambushed a merchant with its conning tower last year :oops:, so I imagine if one boat is active it'll probably be Artful. :yep:

EDIT: According to the Beeb just now, Astute is the one who is at sea after maintenance so Artful must be in dock for repairs for some reason.

[Jimbuna]

Not too surprised that Astute might be offline though, she's been a bit of a problem boat since her launch, and Ambush ambushed a merchant with its conning tower last year :oops:, so I imagine if one boat is active it'll probably be Artful. :yep:

Reminds me of a conversation I had recently with an ex-colleague who has a son in the service. He tells me they are commonly referred to as the 'Unmagnificent Seven' :)

[Oberon]

Reminds me of a conversation I had recently with an ex-colleague who has a son in the service. He tells me they are commonly referred to as the 'Unmagnificent Seven' :)

:haha: Oh dear, between this and the Upholders teething problems something has rather gone wrong at Barrow, hasn't it? :doh:

[Jimbuna]

:haha: Oh dear, between this and the Upholders teething problems something has rather gone wrong at Barrow, hasn't it? :doh:

I honestly can't say I know where the fault stems from but something is certainly not right/as it should be.

[AVGWarhawk]

Sounds like the #2 NATO partner needs to step up their game and commit some resources to their navy. Only seven attack subs? And none capable of doing their job? That's not good.


This is what is meant by being caught with your pants down.

[Aktungbby]

This is what is meant by being caught with your pants down.Buggery, then,:O: on both sides of 'the English speaking pond' as I 'astutely' pointed out in my 'post recently! http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2460041&postcount=1800 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2460041&postcount=1800) These defective parts, each probably valued on the order of $10,000 or less, have kept the $2.7 billion attack submarine Minnesota languishing in an overhaul for two years, while engineers attempt to cut out and replace a difficult to reach part near the nuclear reactor. Meanwhile, Navy engineers are scouring aircraft carriers and other submarines for problems and criminal investigators are gathering evidence.

[AVGWarhawk]

[COLOR=orange]Buggery,

Buggery on the high seas!!!

https://scottlong1980.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/gilligan-skipper.jpeg?w=584

[lesrae]

It's certainly the lowest number of boats we've had in my lifetime, very sad.

For an interesting and in-depth view on the problems of supply vs demand vs time to build, read The Silent Deep by Hennessy and Jinks.

[em2nought]

Better bring back Downton Abbey :D

[u crank]

:haha: Oh dear, between this and the Upholders teething problems something has rather gone wrong at Barrow, hasn't it? :doh:

Canada says 'thank for the effort'. :har:

[STEED]

We still got pea shooters and spud guns...Bring it on. :stare:

[Skybird]

Maybe it is more practical to focus on making the British isles as a whole submergable.

Sink Britain! :yeah:

[Oberon]

Maybe it is more practical to focus on making the British isles as a whole submergable.

Sink Britain! :yeah:

We've dug enough holes in the ground (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_mining_in_the_United_Kingdom) over the years, heck at one point in 1900 the French reckoned that we were working on turning Britain buoyant and floating away.

[MGR1]

This might be of some relevance:

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/whall/?id=2017-02-08a.152.2

Note that apart from one junior Minister there were no Conservative MP's present for the debate. Probably due to it being instigated by a member of the SNP.

Also this:

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/what-is-the-virtual-shipbuilding-strategy/

Mike.:hmmm:

[Schroeder]

Sounds like the #2 NATO partner needs to step up their game and commit some resources to their navy. Only seven attack subs? And none capable of doing their job? That's not good.
We only have 6 in total IIRC.;)

[Onkel Neal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeQfXB9vBrc

Look out, the Russians know about this now

No attack submarines are left in Britain (http://www.pravdareport.com/video/10-02-2017/136837-britain-0/)

[Jimbuna]

Is Lend-Lease still an option? :o

[Oberon]

The US Navy isn't without its problems either, over half of their F-18s are grounded awaiting maintenance, the USS Boise has lost its diving certificate, and five other submarines (presumably also 688s) are not looking in good condition.

http://www.defensenews.com/articles/grounded-nearly-two-thirds-of-us-navys-strike-fighters-cant-fly

And if that wasn't cheerful enough (that's sarcasm by the way) the UK MOD rumour mill indicates that this years military spending review is going to be a massacre. :dead:

[Aktungbby]

I can't really believe that the notoriously poor condition budget-buggered Russians are in any better shape to even take advantage of this. They're just quieter about it ....until they are 'Akursk they are not there" :O:Then real suddenlike: -everybody knows! http://www.urbanghostsmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/abandoned-submarine.jpg
The archetypal image of Eastern European nuclear contamination is the radioactive wilderness of the Chernobyl Exclusion Zone and the abandoned city of Pripyat (http://pripyat.com/en). But more than 1,000 miles to the north, the Russians have spent years struggling to dispose of hundreds of nuclear reactors left over from decaying, geriatric Soviet nuke subs.
It’s a dangerous, vexing problem. The Soviet Union built more than 260 nuclear-powered ships (https://medium.com/war-is-boring/16ad7f45e60a) during the Cold War, most of them submarines with the occasional surface ship and even icebreaker. But Russia decommissioned more than half of them during the 1980s and 1990s as the economy imploded and Moscow’s military budget collapsed.
The rusting, contaminated remnants of these ships — the large reactor containers are a particular source of pollution — sit floating along Russia’s Arctic coast, with few places to put them.
https://warisboring.com/russia-is-finally-slicing-up-its-abandoned-radioactive-submarines-771bafa77465#.jacznztts (https://warisboring.com/russia-is-finally-slicing-up-its-abandoned-radioactive-submarines-771bafa77465#.jacznztts)

[Mr Quatro]

War is hell! But real hell would be standing topside watch on a submarine in port due to spare parts or waiting for a drydock or for the budget to be approved and seeing a mushroom cloud near London Town.

Control room
Topside watch here:
"We seem to have a problem ... I see a large mushroom cloud over near London Town".

Topside watch
Control room here:
"Aye, keep us informed"

IMC: "Now man the maneuvering watch" "Single up all lines"

They all should be at sea ... any sailor would agree that they get into a lot less trouble at sea.

[STEED]

Is Lend-Lease still an option? :o

No we must buy it outright and allow Trump to build Trump Towers in Scotland and more golf courses, ass long as its all in Scotland what the heck. :yeah:

[Catfish]

Look out, the Russians know about this now
You mean they will have to reduce their patrols, now there 's no one to rescue them? :03:

[ikalugin]

I mean this is a natural result of the smaller SSN force - the smaller you go the higher is the risk that no subs would be availiable for duties.

For RuN, readiness was vastly improved since we actually got the funding going (around 2010), this (unofficial, made out of the open data):
https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6435/227305704.1d/0_12c4ec_cfb98282_orig
(the table shows SSNs of Akula series with historical and projected statuses. gray = reserve; yellow = repairs, refits and modernisation; green = availiable for duties)
Currently it appears that we plan to maintain a ~24 strong force of non strategic nuclear submarines (ie SSNs and SSGNs) between the various classes. This allows us to deploy more than one such submarine on missions, you may remember the reports regarding Kuznetsov's sortie into the Med when multiple subs participated.

Only in 00s (and now in 10s) we got the money to fix the submarine fleet's problems, including decomissioning the nuclear reactors. One of the big projects in the later area was decomissioning the support vessel we were using for refuelling, as it had a lot of spent fuel assemblies in it. You can read more here: http://www.rosatom.ru/production/safety/ (unfortunately the eng version of Rosatom website appears to lack the data)

So while there were problems in the past due to the funding problems they are by now largerly either solved or in the process of being solved, so propelling the myth about "useless russian rusting submarines" serves noone. Also, an interesting graph (this time in english):
http://russianforces.org/SovietRussianSubmarines1958-2015.png
(note this graph depicts nuclear submarines of all types, with Delta and Victor series being counted as 2nd gen SSBNs)

[lesrae]

http://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/hms-alliance-to-be-re-commissioned-into-the-royal-navy/

[Jimbuna]

http://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/hms-alliance-to-be-re-commissioned-into-the-royal-navy/

“We also looked long and hard at re-activating HMS Victory but it was felt our new French allies would be too upset by this” said an MoD spokesperson.

CLASSIC!! :)

[Jimbuna]

You're link isn't working.

This one should.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0KE-Vo0I0E

[Aktungbby]

[/QUOTE] Thanks deleted post as useless. :hmmm: Very 'iffy' indeed??!! Tested again: no problems directly off U-Tube. Apparently no longer transferrable; And it Still works from my previous posting: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2259770&postcount=3 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2259770&postcount=3) Which incl. your version as well.

[Catfish]

We only have 6 in total IIRC.;)

But we have eight Airbus transporters :yeah:

oh, wait... http://www.t-online.de/nachrichten/deutschland/militaer-verteidigung/id_80333888/pannenflieger-a400m-deutsche-luftwaffe-frustriert-.html

But.. one :up:

[Oberon]

But we have eight Airbus transporters :yeah:

oh, wait... http://www.t-online.de/nachrichten/deutschland/militaer-verteidigung/id_80333888/pannenflieger-a400m-deutsche-luftwaffe-frustriert-.html

But.. one :up:

What have you been doing with those A400s? I don't think we've managed to break ours yet. :hmmm:

[Catfish]

Who built those gearboxes?! Oh wait, General Electrics.. :hmmm:

[Oberon]

It's worse than that...it's an Italian company owned by General Electrics. :dead:

Should have just built the whole engine in one place, Rolls-Royce could probably have handled it. France could have done the airframe and Germany the electronics...and Spain...could have painted it...under supervision.

[ikalugin]

This thread went weird.

[Jimbuna]

It's worse than that...it's an Italian company owned by General Electrics. :dead:

Should have just built the whole engine in one place, Rolls-Royce could probably have handled it. France could have done the airframe and Germany the electronics...and Spain...could have painted it...under supervision.

:hmmm:


:)

[speed150mph]

That's okay. You Brits are still doing better then us cousins of the north. I haven't checked recently to see if HMCS Windsor is back in operation yet after her last set of issues out her back at the pier, but I don't think we go any further then around the corner.

I hope the USN has some SSNs in the Canadian arctic, because If the Russians have any, we'd be the last to know about it

[Oberon]

Yeah, sorry about those Upholders... :oops: I mean, the class itself is sound, it's just...well...when you leave them out in all weathers for a few years...

Then again, it seems that the Oberons must have cursed their replacements because the Aussie Collins boats had a few teething issues too, and they were home-built. Only in the Commonwealth though, because Brazil and Chile haven't had problems with their 209 and Scorpéne. :hmmm:

[Onkel Neal]

Britain's fleet of submarines 'out of action' report is 'categorically not true' (http://chronicle.gi/2017/02/whole-fleet-of-british-attack-submarines-out-of-action-for-repairs/)

Reports that Britain’s entire fleet of attack submarines is currently out of operation due to repair and maintenance work have been dismissed by military sources.

It comes after the Sun reported that seven nuclear-powered vessels, including three new Astute class submarines, which cost more than £1 billion each, and four Trafalgar class boats were all currently classed as non-operational.

The UK’s Vanguard submarines, which carry Trident nuclear missiles, are in operation but according to the newspaper it is the first time in decades the Royal Navy has no attack submarines ready.

But on Friday afternoon, an MoD source said the claims were false.
“The story is categorically not true – there are operational, capable and ready attack submarines,” they said.

“Where they might be is clearly sensitive operational information that the MoD will not comment on.”

[Skybird]

The Trident that strayed off also was fully operational and on station. :D

The accused - the MoD - maybe is not the most trustworthy source here.

The Sun article probably is exaggerated. But something must have gotten it started.

[Jimbuna]

The Sun article probably is exaggerated.

The Sun? Exaggerated? :hmmm:

If the Sun informed me of the time, day and date I'd go to my diary and wristwatch to check it was truthful and accurate :yep:

[ikalugin]

Heh, that is the normal problem of the -special- media.

However there is a real issue there - RN needs more stuff, especially major surface and subsurface combatants as with 7 boats you would have ~2 availiable for duties at any given time which is not enough for the British global ambitions.

[Catfish]

Yeah, sorry about those Upholders... :oops: I mean, the class itself is sound, it's just...well...when you leave them out in all weathers for a few years...

You didn't expose them to SALT WATER?! :o

[Mr Quatro]

We need a two day time delay to get the truth anymore ... :o

Like TV sports and concerts have a 10 minute delay in case of a wardrobe malfunction :yep:

[Oberon]

You didn't expose them to SALT WATER?! :o

We may have accidentally exposed them to air as well... :oops:

[STEED]

The Sun? Exaggerated? :hmmm:

If the Sun informed me of the time, day and date I'd go to my diary and wristwatch to check it was truthful and accurate :yep:

Murdoch always tells the truth. :03: