New Laptop with Windows 10

[Reece]

I just purchased a new ASUS G771Win 10 64 bit JW-T7187T Laptop with the following specs:
Processor i7-4750HQ Turbo 3.2Ghz
16Gb memory
2Tb Hdd
Gforce GTX 960M
The previous and current computer has WinXP Pro.
This is a huge change and I'm not sure what to do, I haven't been game enough to turn it on even!!:oops:
I suppose the first thing to do would be to try and connect to the internet but before I do is there any advice on firewalls etc?
The second thing would probably find a tweaking program.:yep:
All advice for this and other things/problems I might run into would be appreciated.:hmmm: (I assume there would be a huge difference between Win XP and Win 10)

Thanks in advance.

[Skybird]

Decide wether or not you care for privacy. W10 kills it anyway, since Microsoft makes money from selling you to its customers. But you can influence a bit how easy you make it for Microsoft, and seal your copy of W10 off a bit. Switching privacy intrusion off completely you cannot.

Here you need to search the web on info a bit.

Also understand that dramatic change in update policies. No longer can you choose what updates you want and what not - you can delay it at best to get all the stuff shoveled onto your HD, but you cannot say Nay anymore. Well maybe you can, I am not certain - but you need to have a pro admin's knowledge to do so and must be willing to manually investigate every single KB patch and do research on the web whether it is broken or not and invest a lot of time for all this - and Microsoft has dramatically reduced the quality of its patches in the past 24 months, and fired experienced staff working on such patches. Again: Microsoft insists that you accept to take the bad, the broken, the step-backwards patches as well, you cannot opt out, at best you can only delay it. So be prepared to get hit by bad stuff and serve as a Beta tester unvoluntarily. When you run into problems that are new, did not exist on the day before, always consider that it might be due to a new patch, especially after patching Tuesdays. The issues can be, but must not always be, very severe. And it is known that it can seriously impact on gaming, too. Many people therefore have decided to upgrade from W10 back to an earlier version of Windows. Which has its own set of problems nowadays.

I would make it a habit to scan this blog twice or three times a week.

https://www.askwoody.com/

The audience is mostly pro admins working for companies, but much of what they have to say is valid for private end users, too. Whether we always understand all the stuff they talk, is something different. :) But after some time you might get a feeling for the swing of things. But its safe to say that professionals and adminstrators hate Windows 10. Telling you this not to frustrate you, but to set you up on your guard. Its also recommended to spend two or three hours and investigate this blog over the past 18 months or so.

Sorry that I cannot talk you through W10 setups better, but I do not use it, and do not intend to ever use it. Limiting privacy vulnerabilties and being aware of the worstening patching situation are the two things you need to watch out for and research on the web. This is the answer to your initial question, or a hint for the answers to your question.

And do not blindly trust what Microsoft writes about this or that patch. They are lying all too often and intentionally mislabel stuff these days, or simply leave out important but controversial descriptions. Serious. The past two years have been full of such incidents.

Try to enjoy your new kit despite my depressing answer! ;) :salute: New computers always are adventures best enjoyed at the very beginning. Just accept that you need to say goodby to the idea that you own your computer. The new owner is Microsoft, and they will try to do with it as they please.

[Commander Wallace]

Congratulations on your newest acquisition Reece. :up: This a major league unit. Skybird makes some good points. I have some thoughts as well. Rockin Robbins had mentioned setting up a Firewall system and it makes good sense. It prevents virus's and malware that has been installed in your computer from communicating back to it's place of origin. There are one way and two way firewalls.

http://www.itscolumn.com/2011/08/what-is-a-two-way-firewall/


Also look into a good utility software suite to consolidate operations within your computer. You can use it to speed things up by disabling programs that initiate at startup. It has other uses and benefits as well. This would be useful for users with less capable computers. Your unit will handle anything you choose to throw at it. :)

One other thought. Some tech people I know have told me that new computers sold in the future equipped with Microsoft operating systems purchased from retailers will not allow the end user to reinstall a different operating system like Linux after removing the Microsoft system. This also applies if you choose to install a new HDD as well. For advanced users, I would think if the Bios was wiped, you could reinstall Linux but I haven't seen it performed yet. I'm also wondering if you could order a commercially available computer from retailers without an operating system pre installed.

This would not apply if one decided to build their own computer with readily available motherboards, CPU's and other hardware components. For capable people like this that can do their own work, they again can install Linux or any other available operating system of their choice. For laptop users, this may be more difficult.

[Rockin Robbins]

Poof! I've been summoned! Software firewalls are not absolutely necessary if you're sitting behing the harware firewall of a router, either wireless or wired. However, a software firewall gives you a degree of control that I find useful.

Windows Firewall, which is a part of Windows 10 is a 1-way firewall system. That means that it filters incoming connections to your computer. If you have not authorized, or that connection is not automatically authorized by Windows, the connection is not allowed.

A one-way firewall should be all you need unless you are a very juicy corporate target or someone would be willing to put a lot of effort forth to get into your goodies. Unfortunately, even randomly, those persistent people rarely become a big problem. I've never had such a problem.

But what if you are a bit paranoid? What if, in spite of your firewall, bad stuff gets on your computer? It can happen, because the greatest hazard to your computer is you, installing malware, and no firewall can keep you from doing that unless it just pulls the plug and your computer becomes a very bad and expensive boat anchor.

A two-way firewall filters outgoing connections too. Initially, when your programs try to make an outgoing connection a dialog box pops up and says "Bub, you really want this connection to happen?" and you say "Yes, and remember that please." And that program is authorized to send info over the Internet.

This means that if you do install a piece of malware on your system and it tries to send its information home, your two-way firewall will pop up that dialog box to alert you. You will have to authorize the connection. At the very least, that tells you that somebody's calling home. Most of the tme that's legitimate and you'll authorize the connection.

What if it is a process you don't recognize. You have a name to do a Google search with to see it you need to worry about it and its connection is interrupted until you do.

But is that valid protection? Maybe. If it's an internal Windows 10 process chances are the name will be reported honestly and if it's telemetry you can tell the firewall "No way Jose and remember that." But real malware outside Microsoft (the new king of malware) often masquerades under the name of an inoccuous process. "Do you want TimeUpdater.exe to access the Internet?" Yeah, that's legitimate. But in this case it's malware stealing the name of a normally legitimate process. See what I'm getting at? Two-way firewalls are useful but not infallable because a fallable human is running the show.

The best alternative for Microsoft snooping is Spybot Anti-Beacon. (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjUnp_u8a3RAhUDVyYKHSF8DaUQjBAIJDAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.safer-networking.org%2F2015%2Fspybot-anti-beacon-privacy-protection-tool%2F&usg=AFQjCNEBzFOxSpcqpDJmsDjgAl0cgFh5ow&sig2=VsPwn6MM5yUOhYg9tU09_w) This is a free program, updated regularly, whose sole task is to keep Microsoft malware from calling home. You have infinite control with tons of options. It's a very good program and I use it even for Windows 7.

Personally right now I'm running Windows Firewall on my one remaining Windows machine and haven't had a problem. I am also behind a hardware firewall.

I was just given one of those HP all-on-one computers with a 21" touch screen. First thing I did was dump Windows 10 off the machine and install Ubuntu 16.10. Yikes! Linux is better with a touch screen than Windows 10! It's really pretty phenominal, especially when you consider that Linux is perfectly happy WITHOUT a touch screen too. Unlike Microsoft's practice it isn't necessary to toss out the baby with the bathwater.

[vienna]

...But what if you are a bit paranoid? What if, in spite of your firewall, bad stuff gets on your computer? It can happen, because the greatest hazard to your computer is you, installing malware, and no firewall can keep you from doing that unless it just pulls the plug and your computer becomes a very bad and expensive boat anchor.

...


The best alternative for Microsoft snooping is Spybot Anti-Beacon. (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjUnp_u8a3RAhUDVyYKHSF8DaUQjBAIJDAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.safer-networking.org%2F2015%2Fspybot-anti-beacon-privacy-protection-tool%2F&usg=AFQjCNEBzFOxSpcqpDJmsDjgAl0cgFh5ow&sig2=VsPwn6MM5yUOhYg9tU09_w) This is a free program, updated regularly, whose sole task is to keep Microsoft malware from calling home. You have infinite control with tons of options. It's a very good program and I use it even for Windows 7.

...



...and if you're really paranoid, you'll wonder what info Spybot Anti-Beacon is sending back to home base or if it might be a front for Microsoft... :haha:

Another series of tools, for the advanced users, is Microsoft's Sysinternls Suite:

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb842062.aspx

This is free from MS and here is the home site for more info:

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb545021.aspx

Particularly useful is the Autoruns tool, which allows you to seek out and block software that launches on startup, some of which don"t even show up in the Task Manager's Startup list. If you are comfortable with getting into the nuts and bolts of machines, these tolls could be a help...



<O>

[Reece]

Well this has made me even more paranoid/worried about turning the computer on. Maybe I should turn it on without an internet connection.:hmmm:
I am still running on my old computer, maybe I should download the software ( Spybot Anti-Beacon. (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjUnp_u8a3RAhUDVyYKHSF8DaUQjBAIJDAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.safer-networking.org%2F2015%2Fspybot-anti-beacon-privacy-protection-tool%2F&usg=AFQjCNEBzFOxSpcqpDJmsDjgAl0cgFh5ow&sig2=VsPwn6MM5yUOhYg9tU09_w)) on to a usb stick and plug that into the new machine at startup. Does it have to be online when starting Win 10?:hmmm:

The dealer said that most machines will not allow the installation of an older windows version or even Linux, I wonder if this computer will or won't allow other operating systems.:doh:
I did search for a Win 7 system before I selected this one but basically only a few old slow machines were available in only a few stores.
My Galaxy S4 has an older version of Android (kit-kat) and is great compared to the newer versions, I can actually turn auto updates off.:yep:
I was hoping for some sort of positive response regarding Windows 10 but there doesn't seem to be any.:oops::doh:

[Rockin Robbins]

Well this has made me even more paranoid/worried about turning the computer on. Maybe I should turn it on without an internet connection.:hmmm:
I am still running on my old computer, maybe I should download the software ( Spybot Anti-Beacon. (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjUnp_u8a3RAhUDVyYKHSF8DaUQjBAIJDAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.safer-networking.org%2F2015%2Fspybot-anti-beacon-privacy-protection-tool%2F&usg=AFQjCNEBzFOxSpcqpDJmsDjgAl0cgFh5ow&sig2=VsPwn6MM5yUOhYg9tU09_w)) on to a usb stick and plug that into the new machine at startup. Does it have to be online when starting Win 10?:hmmm:

The dealer said that most machines will not allow the installation of an older windows version or even Linux, I wonder if this computer will or won't allow other operating systems.:doh:
I did search for a Win 7 system before I selected this one but basically only a few old slow machines were available in only a few stores.
My Galaxy S4 has an older version of Android (kit-kat) and is great compared to the newer versions, I can actually turn auto updates off.:yep:
I was hoping for some sort of positive response regarding Windows 10 but there doesn't seem to be any.:oops::doh:
Wow! You've been fed a couple of shovels of fresh horse squeeze there by the dealer.

Older versions of Windows, including Windows 7 and Linux can be installed on every computer I've ever seen, including my HP all in one with the most vicious BIOS setup I've ever seen.

As a matter of fact, after you throw the right switches, you can pull the hard drive out of your old computer, install it into your new one and just boot up! You would probably have to reactivate Windows over the phone and you'd be good to go. However I wouldn't recommend running XP today. Windows 7 is best if you want to stay with Microsoft.

You're dealing with less than astute people where you bought your new machine.

[blkdimnd]

Use pcdecrapifer. Cleans most of the bloarware off a new computer. You can find it at pcdecrapifer.com

Then let the PC install all its updates. Windows 10 comes with good Antivirus and antimalware software. And has a built-in firewall.

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk

[Reece]

Wow, I'm using my new system with Windows 10!!
After about 5 hours of tearing my hair out it's not looking too bad.
@blkdimnd, I had actually downloaded Ultimate Tweaker from Major Geeks and that is good.
@ Rockin Robbins, I am glad to hear that I can purchase and install Win 7 if I give up with 10 but since it's on I will persist.:yep:
Trying to wade through all this extra baggage is a total pain but managed to uninstall many apps that I wouldn't use.
This computer on startup already had McAfee installed, should I uninstall it or let it go?
I have installed Spybot and after pressing 'Immunize' seems to be running ok.
I actually managed to install Firefox and using Mozbackup restored my bookmarks.:up:
I still haven't been able to stop Windows updates, that is annoying, hopefully that doesn't become a pain.:doh:
I really must try getting a Linux boot DVD and give it a go sometime.
One thing annoying is I keep touching the 'touch plate' and sending the mouse flying across the screen, I am using a standard usb mouse.
I am going to see if I can install Total Commander, I liked that on XP.:yep:
Thanks for the support guys.:salute:

[Skybird]

Linux boot DVD or better USB stick can be created by yourself, you must not wait for an "opportunity". You need an ISO file and a tool to get it as bootable onto the DVD or stick, thats all. As Robbins and me said in other threads, the charm is that you can make it a bootable stick, you then can check it out in all of Linux's details without needing to install it on your HD. You boot your new laptop from the stick with Linux on it (UEFI/BIOS settings must allow that).

If you need Windows for launching games depending on it, then you need to stick with Windows. If that is not a concern to you, you can abandon Windows right now, no need to go through all that hassle with W10. The future of Windows holds no promises for improvements, just more worries. And risks.

[blkdimnd]

Linux boot DVD or better USB stick can be created by yourself, you must not wait for an "opportunity". You need an ISO file and a tool to get it as bootable onto the DVD or stick, thats all. As Robbins and me said in other threads, the charm is that you can make it a bootable stick, you then can check it out in all of Linux's details without needing to install it on your HD. You boot your new laptop from the stick with Linux on it (UEFI/BIOS settings must allow that).

If you need Windows for launching games depending on it, then you need to stick with Windows. If that is not a concern to you, you can abandon Windows right now, no need to go through all that hassle with W10. The future of Windows holds no promises for improvements, just more worries. And risks.

Can you run Silent Hunter 5 under Linux?? O_o
If so, I might dual boot.

[Skybird]

Linux and Silent Hunter, that is a hobby of Rocking Robbins, you better ask him: a.) he knows Linux better than I do, and b.) he has a thread in here describing how he has set up Silent Hunter and Linux.

Not all is possible regarding gaming and Linux, but much more than just years ago. And there is always the optionj to go with a Virtual Machine Windows running under Linux - an option I sympathised with some time ago, but still have not further examined. With age comes laziness...

[Rockin Robbins]

Linux and Silent Hunter, that is a hobby of Rocking Robbins, you better ask him: a.) he knows Linux better than I do, and b.) he has a thread in here describing how he has set up Silent Hunter and Linux.

Not all is possible regarding gaming and Linux, but much more than just years ago. And there is always the optionj to go with a Virtual Machine Windows running under Linux - an option I sympathised with some time ago, but still have not further examined. With age comes laziness...
Unfortunately I don't know anything about SH5.

I elected not to buy any more Ubi games after the initial SH5 debacle when it was clear that Ubi's vision was not simulation but soap opera, where the contents of the cook's soup was a focal point of the game. That and the log on or don't play thing. Didn't like their resumption of the SecuROM debacle after totally eliminating in in v1.3 of SH4 either.

I'm not interested in playing U-boats in a partial war in the Atlantic either. So I know zero about getting Silent Hunter 5 in Linux. I'll use my connections over at WineHQ to find out what I can. I'm the maintainer of their Silent Hunter 4 section so I should be able to find out whether SH5 works under WINE.

Like Skybird says, the alternative would be in a virtual machine running Windows cradled safely in the arms of Linux so it can't hurt anybody!:D:D:D

[Rockin Robbins]

According to WineHQ, you're golden (https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=19549) with SH5! Unless there's been a regression with WINE since then, it should work even better today than when it was tested with WINE 1.5. Current version was 2.1-rc2 last I knew. It's been flawless so far. You get an error message when leaving JSGME but just close the error box and continue as if it didn't happen!

[Reece]

I have a few ini files that I would like to edit but I keep getting a message to say that the file is write protected!! When I check its properties it is not write protected, could this be a firewall thing?
Should I get rid of (uninstall) McAfee? How do I know if Windows firewall is active?
What is the benefit of paying $150 for the pro upgrade?

Edit: I finally found that I had to change the users rights to the file before I could edit it, what a pain!!
Every time I create a new folder it is write protected, how do I stop this? Talk about frustrating!!!

[Rockin Robbins]

Step one: turn UAC, User Account Control, OFF. It gets in your way every time you try to do most anything but malware romps all over your machine like it's a playground. No benefit, lots of headaches.

Step 2: Take ownership of files with a right-click. I used Grant Admin Full Control, but I've not used it on Windows 10. For a solution guaranteed to work on Windows 10, follow this link (http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/windows-vista/add-take-ownership-to-explorer-right-click-menu-in-vista/) for a great registry hack that lets you take control of any file or group of files you like! The other thing you can do to edit files Windows doesn't want you to is to boot up an Ubuntu Live CD. This boots Linux on your machine. Linux understands Windows better than Microsoft does and guess what? It doesn't respect Microsoft silliness about protected directories or even hidden files. Edit away! Then reboot Windows to see what you've done.

Microsoft has completely forgotten that your computer belongs to you. It's going to get a lot worse before it gets better, as they take right after right away, daring you to leave them. What is now a choice, tomorrow may not be a choice at all.

I am totally surprised how large a weight was removed from my shoulders when I bit the bullet, deep sixed Windows (actually it deep-sixed me) and went with Ubuntu 16.10. I feel the freedom!:up::up::up:

[Reece]

Thanks for the help, I have downloaded the reg file and will install it tomorrow.
I know nothing about Linux/Unix whatsoever and at 65yo am a bit scared to delete windows and try it.
I seriously must look at a Linux boot disk/usb stick for a try, however there are a few things that I need this laptop for:
1) Games and so far if I try plugging in a usb keyboard the games crash, who knows what that problem could be??:doh: Probably hardware.
2) SDR radio and control programs.
3) Oscilloscope (PC operated)
4) Wavelab sound editor.
These are the main reasons I have stuck to XP for such a long time, they all worked on that system but Firefox and other programs don't run properly anymore.:oops:
Instead of spending the money on Win 10 64 bit Pro maybe I should just buy and install Win 7, problem is that is on it's way out!!:/\\!!
Again many thanks for your help.

[Rockin Robbins]

Win 7 has a full four years of support left. It's a good alternative for now.

[Skybird]

If you install W7, you do want to update to SP1, but not much beyond that. Find an archive with SP1 - and then switch of Windows Update completely. All what is bad in W10l has been inverse-patched into W8 and W7 as well. So do not move beyond a patch status much later than SP1.

You would want to go to dual boot then, a Linux installation for surfing, emailing, browsing, work, for everything except

- game-launching, which is the only purpose you should use a not-upated and thus unsecure W7 for.

I did that myself and still do so, though not dual boot on one system anymore (that was for some testing months only), but now separating the two on two rigs. It works.

[Reece]

If I purchased a new version of windows 7:
win7 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Microsoft-Windows-7-Professional-Full-Version-32-64-Bit-DVD-MS-WIN-PRO-NE-/142239118486?hash=item211e1cb496:g:QoIAAOSwcLxYMlr z)
will it have latest updates quote "but not much beyond that."
I will also have to buy SP1, the price has certainly risen.:doh:

Edit: I now have taken ownership of folders and files that I need to edit etc.:up:

[Skybird]

Get an original W7 and SP1, and then leave it to that. SP1 I found on the web, but that is 18 months ago, I do not know how easy or difficult it is to find patch archives these days anymore.

Do not run Windows uopdates ever, not a single timwe, it will shovel all that bad stuff uo to the very present onto your HD. All the bad stuff you do not want.

And I repeat my warning, just not to be misunderstood: such an outdated Windows will have huge security holes that should prevent it from being used for sensitive, or ordinary, or money-related work or surfing, browsing, emailing, shopping. I always understood this W/-SP1 to be just a game-launching platform, not more. So again: there is a certain risk involved. Minbimise it by not using this W7+SP1 fpor anything else than just firing up your games.

Which means you need a second basis/OS for all the other things: surfing, emailing, etc etc. Or you use W7 without internet connection only.

I do not recommend to use W7 non-updated all alone for anything. That means asking for trouble sooner or later.

P.S. Also be careeful where oyu buy your W7. There are many non-valid installation codes out there being offered. Sorry, no advise how to differ the good from the bad apples. W7 has become difficult these days, I'm sorry to say.

[Moonlight]

Bah! you lot are so bloody fixated on Microsnot screwing you over you can't see the wood for the trees. :doh:
Simplifying updates for Windows 7 and 8.1


New Windows 7 SP1 convenience rollup makes image creation much faster
We’re happy to announce today that we’re making available a new convenience rollup for Windows 7 SP1 that will help. This convenience rollup package, available to download from http://catalog.update.microsoft.com/v7/site/Search.aspx?q=3125574, contains all the security and non-security fixes released since the release of Windows 7 SP1 that are suitable for general distribution, up through April 2016. Install this one update, and then you only need new updates released after April 2016.
This convenience update is completely optional; it doesn’t have to be installed and won’t even be offered via Windows Update – you can choose whether or not you want to use it.
To apply this update, you must install the April 2015 servicing stack update for Windows 7 (KB3020369 (https://support.microsoft.com/kb/3020369)). You can read more about the Convenience rollup update for Windows 7 SP1 here (https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3125574). I did a fresh install of Win7 SP1 when I heard about the file above and it went without too much bother. There were only about 40 files left to download (there might be more now though), the only thing to watch out for are the monthly rollup files, if you need to update Win7 further just download the security only updates ones from the link below.

Install the three KBs in the order I've listed them, they're a fix for Win7 taking forever to search for any updates.
KB3020369 first
KB3172605 second
KB3177467 third

You'll also need these three files as well before you install the security patches.
July 21, 2016 — KB3172605
August 16, 2016 — KB3179573
September 20, 2016 — KB3185278
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/22801/windows-7-and-windows-server-2008-r2-update-history

I hope that hasn't confused things too much, Now I'm going for a lay down in a darkened room after all that typing and research type whatnot. :D

[Skybird]

This convenience update puts together all the stuff that you do not want - or not: point is you do not know. I have read about it before, and the tendency in views is to warn of it.

We do not want the reverse-implementing of W10 snuffware, spyware and privacy violation into W7 and W8, but that is what you get when you install patches for W7 beyond a certain critical date. Thats why I say: in case of doubt: upgrade to SP1, but no patch that came after that. I personally went to patch status summer 2015, but I had an independent patch archive for that that seems to be no more available on the web.

Do not just trust descriptions of patches, since Microsoft has lied on some poatches one time too often now. Trusting their word is no longer justified. They want their telemetry and profiling stuff on your rig, may it be W10, W8 or W7 - and they do not take your No as an answer. Thats the only thing you need to keep on mind about them. If you intend to mean your No serious, do not run Windows update, do not use the patches later than spring or early summer 2015 - as long as you do not want to spend hours and hours for manually investigating the trustworthiness and correctness of everxy single one patch the is. I found that to become a many-hours-consuming half time job - and that was when I decided to move to Linux and leave Windows behind. The time investement was not worth it anymore.

Simple rule: do not accept anything for Microsoft anymore. Do not give them access to your rig. Lock them out, completely.

You cannot rule out that they infest even older patches in their arhcives with their wanted sniffware, it is not unexpected if they do that, since occasionally they change the content of patches anyway over the years (since long time already), or re-release patches people refuse to get repeatedly under different markers or names. During GWX campaign they did that with one critical famous door-kicker patch I think 18 times: rub it under their nose until they finally inhale it, you always catch a few with any new attempt.

[Reece]

Thanks all, I'll keep trying to get things going with Win 10 but failing that I will go to 7.:yep: (this laptop and other household damages has tied my funds up for a bit)

[BarracudaUAK]

Can you run Silent Hunter 5 under Linux?? O_o
If so, I might dual boot.

According to WineHQ, you're golden (https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=19549) with SH5! Unless there's been a regression with WINE since then, it should work even better today than when it was tested with WINE 1.5. Current version was 2.1-rc2 last I knew. It's been flawless so far. You get an error message when leaving JSGME but just close the error box and continue as if it didn't happen!



I also don't have SH5, but I can say that SH3 has worked flawlessly for several versions since 1.7.33 (maybe 1.7.35), 1.7.40 worked but the water was flat black. SH4 (steam) has only given me issues once in 1.9.X, but at that point all my steam games gave me trouble.

So you should be good to go.




....
I know nothing about Linux/Unix whatsoever and at 65yo am a bit scared to delete windows and try it.
I seriously must look at a Linux boot disk/usb stick for a try, however there are a few things that I need this laptop for:
.......



I believe Ubuntu does, I know Fedora does... but way back when...

*wavy screen fading to a flashback*

There was Knoppix. It is Debian based (like Ubuntu), but it is "geared" to run mainly off of the CD/DVD. Ubuntu/Fedora run off of the CD/DVD/USB (anybody remember when we actually spoke with REAL words?) but are designed primarily to function from a write-able drive (for the swap file).

Knoppix is good as it will auto-detect MOST of your settings, give you a lean (but good looking) desktop (that you can change), and "mount" all of your drives.

HOWEVER.
IT. WILL. WRITE. PROTECT. YOUR. HARD. DRIVES.

You can turn the write protection off, but it is to keep you from deleting things accidentally.
Very useful while you play with Knoppix to learn linux.
Also useful as you can't mess up Knoppix. You simply reboot, and TADA! System good as new.

Takes a bit of time as it loads from the CD (or you can copy it all to a ram drive on boot), but nearly "bulletproof".

In my dual boot days, I used Knoppix to partition my drives so I could install 98/XP/Fedora without worrying about forgetting to account for a particular OS.

*wavy screen as we fade back to present*

And it is here:
http://knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html

And I'm done.
This was muchlonger than it needed to be.

I'm off to make a topic on WINE.

Barracuda

P.S. This post was off topic, and had nothing to do with Win10. I don't have Win10, so I can't be of assistance there.
I do hope you get your laptop setup the way you want.

[Reece]

@ Rockin Robbins, this computer has 2 hdd's, the first is partitioned into 2 drives C & D and the second hdd is drive E.
Is it possible to leave C with Windows and install Linux on D with dual boot?
I know nothing about partitioning and dual boot, I used to partition drives back in the CP/M and IBM DOS machines in the early 90's but forgotten most of that and is probably irrelevant now anyway.:doh:
Thanks.

[BarracudaUAK]

@ Rockin Robbins, this computer has 2 hdd's, the first is partitioned into 2 drives C & D and the second hdd is drive E.
Is it possible to leave C with Windows and install Linux on D with dual boot?
I know nothing about partitioning and dual boot, I used to partition drives back in the CP/M and IBM DOS machines in the early 90's but forgotten most of that and is probably irrelevant now anyway.:doh:
Thanks.


I'm sure RR will be along shortly, but the short answer is,

Yes, you can install it to the 2nd hard drive and run Linux from there.

Hard drive partitioning hasn't changed much, mainly the File Systems on those disk.

fdisk is still a partitioning tool/command used in Linux, I used fdisk back in the dos days.

All of the partitioning is pretty much automatic at this point, you just tell it what you want to install to, and the installer will do the rest. You can change it if you want, but it usually does pretty good by itself.

How big is the 2nd hard drive?

Barracuda

[propbeanie]

Be careful there though Reece, that D: is probably your "image" to restore from the manufacturer's partition!

[Reece]

C is 371Gb, D is 558Gb (blank) and Drive E is 1Tb, now used as a backup for C and D (once Linux is installed).:yep:
Yes I remember fdisk, partition magic and other programs, once Linux is installed I will still have to overcome the installation of dual boot, hopefully that goes smoothly.:yep:
Thanks.

[Reece]

Well it looks like my Win 10 system is totally stuffed so have to get that sorted sometime.
I am trying to install UBUNTU Linux but since there are no books around I am having problems installing this!!!:/\\!!
The following screen comes up but don't know where to go from here:
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/Reecehk/Linux%20install_zpsotvijpax.jpg (http://s66.photobucket.com/user/Reecehk/media/Linux%20install_zpsotvijpax.jpg.html)
I tried each one but nowhere does it show drive C, D, or E, just a lot of mumbo jumbo, I think it is referring to the two 1Tb drives nothing about D at all.
Pressing the first option shows:
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/Reecehk/Linux%20install%20-%202_zpslck5yroy.jpg (http://s66.photobucket.com/user/Reecehk/media/Linux%20install%20-%202_zpslck5yroy.jpg.html)
This is not the sizes if C and D, and why would I slide the divider??? (I'm having a melt down)
I am trying to install it on D does anyone know how or can offer some advice please?:oops:

[Catfish]

Ubuntu is not much different from other Linux installations, only the install panels look different.
You can add and remove programs (or "Apps" :nope: if you belong to the FB generation :O:) later at any time. And you do not have to de-install and such, becasue yu do not live in the Windows DLL-hell here.
If you want to change the Linux kernel to a new version however, you have to re-install all – or is there a newish trick – anyone?

^ First radio button should be right, or use the LVM Logical volume one. Have no expericence with that yet.
You have physical volunmes, and you have partitions, and then you have so-called logical volumes.
All need space on your harddisk, of course. Installing a logical volume deos not screw with the physical partition though, and can easily be tweaked, or removed. Should not have influence on the native Win installation then.

[Commander Wallace]

Well it looks like my Win 10 system is totally stuffed so have to get that sorted sometime.
I am trying to install UBUNTU Linux but since there are no books around I am having problems installing this!!!:/\\!!
The following screen comes up but don't know where to go from here:
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/Reecehk/Linux%20install_zpsotvijpax.jpg (http://s66.photobucket.com/user/Reecehk/media/Linux%20install_zpsotvijpax.jpg.html)
I tried each one but nowhere does it show drive C, D, or E, just a lot of mumbo jumbo, I think it is referring to the two 1Tb drives nothing about D at all.
Pressing the first option shows:
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/Reecehk/Linux%20install%20-%202_zpslck5yroy.jpg (http://s66.photobucket.com/user/Reecehk/media/Linux%20install%20-%202_zpslck5yroy.jpg.html)
This is not the sizes if C and D, and why would I slide the divider??? (I'm having a melt down)
I am trying to install it on D does anyone know how or can offer some advice please?:oops:


I installed 2 Linux based operating systems alongside windows. Linux had an installed boot loader as well. That's 3 operating systems. I loaded them as a test bed to evaluate them. The Linux based systems will format and partition the hard drive upon initial loading If you want it to. ( That's what your screen is ) After installation, I was prompted to boot into the OS of my choice at the initial turn on and boot up phase. The Operating Systems all worked fine.

2 days later, I had some free time so turned on the computer only to discover that Windows had corrupted the 2 versions of Linux I had loaded only 2 days before. That's something to keep in mind. For this reason, I don't recommend running Linux or it's derivatives with any version of Windows on the same drive.

When loading them, keep in mind the recovery partition as well. When I installed everything, it was essentially a fresh install on a new and expansive drive. 2tb worth. 2Tb or more will enable you to partition and have ample space for your programs.

[Reece]

I wanted to keep the E drive as a backup, currently that is where the image of C is kept. Looking at the second pic the drive seems to be E since it is named sdb not sda, the first partition sdb1 and for some reason the second is scb2.:hmmm:
My thoughts:
It looks like it wants to put the Linux operating system on the second partition on E (ext4 whatever that is) and make the data the first partition being in ntfs format, so I assume I could use this for my backups still, is this correct?
I can't believe I just wrote that!!:doh:
Maybe I will have to invest in a usb hdd for backups!:hmmm:

[BarracudaUAK]

Reece,


At first it is a bunch of "mumbo jumbo"... but it is very simple... once you know.

First the older stuff, since you remember DOS:

On older IDE systems the Hard Drives where listed as:

hda
hdb
hdc
hdd

"hard disk a/b/c/d"

The IDE controller had a "Primary" and a "Secondary" controler.
Each controller had a "master" and a "slave" drive.

If we made ONE PARTITION per drive,
--
DOS/WIN would see it as:

Primary Master: C:\
Primary Slave: D:\
Secondary Master: E:\
Secondary Slave: F:\

--
Linux would see it as:

Primary Master: hda1
Primary Slave: hdb1
Secondary Master: hdc1
Secondary Slave: hdd1
--

I think (it has been a while) the 3rd "letter" (hdA, hdB) is based on which controller, and whether it is the master/slave.

I'll cover partitions in the next section. Although you may have already guessed.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Now let's switch to SATA drives.

SATA drives change the drive designation in Linux from "h" to "s".

My mother board has six (6) SATA connectors. I have four (4) 2TB drives.

These Hard Drives are listed as:

sda
sdb
sdc
sdd

I forget what the "s" actually stands for, but I always think "SATA".

The "Number" is for the partition.

(I have 4 hard drives in a raid0, striped RAID for speed),
For my first "Physical Hard Disk" my "drives" (partitions) are listed as:
sda1
sda2
sda3
sda4


---------------------------

The upside of this "difference of opinion" is that when Windows automatically assigns a drive letter, it starts with the FIRST partition on the FIRST hard drive and labels that partition as drive "C:\".

Where as Linux would label it "hda1" for an IDE drive, or "sda1" for a SATA drive.

So looking at your screenshot,

sdb1, and sdb2 would be your 2nd hard disk.

IF in Win10, your 2nd Physical Hard Drive was drive E:, then "sdb1", is your drive E:

Since you selected "Install along Side Windows 10", Ubuntu's installer is NOT touching your system (1st) drive, BECAUSE YOU HAVE A 2ND DRIVE.

It IS using your 2nd Hard Drive because it does NOT have as OS on it.

To use Drive "D:\", you would need to install to SDA2.

Which means you will most likely have to do that manually.
-------------------------------

Let me know if I need to clear any of this up. I tried to "cover the basics" so you could understand any situations you run across, and also to address your specific situation.
It is a bit confusing at the beginning. But once you start thinking of your drives as hda/b/etc, you know EXACTLY which drive you are using/talking about!:03:

Barracuda

P.S. ext4 is a Linux file system format. Like Fat, Fat32, and NTFS, it is the newest of the Linux File System formats. There are others BTRFS, etc....

[BarracudaUAK]

I wanted to keep the E drive as a backup, currently that is where the image of C is kept. Looking at the second pic the drive seems to be E since it is named sdb not sda, the first partition sdb1 and for some reason the second is scb2.:hmmm:
My thoughts:
It looks like it wants to put the Linux operating system on the second partition on E (ext4 whatever that is) and make the data the first partition being in ntfs format, so I assume I could use this for my backups still, is this correct?
I can't believe I just wrote that!!:doh:
Maybe I will have to invest in a usb hdd for backups!:hmmm:


To the part I bolded, YES.

And if I read the first part of your post more closely (I was on my phone when I read it), I would have seen that you are deciphering this yourself!

Sorry for the massively long post when I could have just said: "yes".... :doh::nope:

a massively overworked,
Barracuda

[Reece]

Thanks all it is becoming much clearer now, the only confusing part is: why the "c" in scb2 ? Maybe some program naming error, it should surely be sdb2.:)
I might keep the first HDD as Windows and the second as Linux. I bet the VEEAM backup will not backup Linux!!:hmmm: If not I still might have to have an external usb hdd as backup.:yep:

[Reece]

Well I proceeded to install Linux, it went ok till I struck this error::wah:
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/Reecehk/Linux%20failed%20-%201_zpsjaozzbaz.jpg (http://s66.photobucket.com/user/Reecehk/media/Linux%20failed%20-%201_zpsjaozzbaz.jpg.html)

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/Reecehk/Linux%20failed%20-%202_zpslbw9r6wm.jpg (http://s66.photobucket.com/user/Reecehk/media/Linux%20failed%20-%202_zpslbw9r6wm.jpg.html)

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/Reecehk/Linux%20failed%20-%203_zpsguydth5w.jpg (http://s66.photobucket.com/user/Reecehk/media/Linux%20failed%20-%203_zpsguydth5w.jpg.html)

This is getting soooo frustrating!! :doh:

[BarracudaUAK]

You could try selecting "/dev/sdb", or "/dev/sdb1".
This SHOULD keep it from messing with your Win10 drive/install.
I've put my boot loader all over the place and it still worked.

Usually, you have to put the boot loader on a partition: sda1/sdb1/sdc1...
sda/sdb/sdc are the actual physical drives, the device itself, the "1" is the partition where the data is written...

I've installed Ubuntu twice, once on my brothers PC about 3 1/2 years ago, and the video was too new, and I tried 14.04 on mine about 2 years ago, same situation... So I'm really out of practice with Ubuntu...


Which version of Ubuntu did you download? I'll install it in a virtual machine on my PC, so I'm more familiar with the steps for it...

Barracuda

P.S. I keep typing Ubuntu as "Ubunto", then I have to stop and correct my spelling....:nope::rotfl2:

[Reece]

The version of Ubuntu is 16.10.
So far Windows is stuffed and has to be reinstalled and Linux is stuffed!!!:haha:
I do want Windows 10 and Linux with dual boot, I have ordered and paid for Windows 10 Pro with genuine key but not here yet.

[Rockin Robbins]

I recommend not installing Ubuntu and Windows to the same hard drive. The reason for this is that Windows defends itself against Linux and loves to overwrite Linux boot code and otherwise stomp over your preferences. Your computer isn't yours. It belongs to Microsoft.

However, if you install Linux on a separate disk, Windows will merely ignore it. That is preferable to Windows attacking it. So here's the plan: let Windows live on its own hard drive, pretending it's the only operating system in the universe.

Meanwhile, we'll install Linux and GRUB (GRand Unified Bootloader) on a completely separate hard drive. We'll set up the computer to boot from the Linux disk. Since the central value of the Linux community is interoperability, GRUB will automatically find Windows and let you boot into Windows if you prefer. It will also start Ubuntu if you wish.

That leaves it possible to boot either disk. If you boot the Ubuntu disk you have the choice of what you want to run. If you boot the Windows disk, then Windows is the only operating system in the universe, just like it demands.

Balance is restored to the cosmos!:D:D:D

[BarracudaUAK]

The version of Ubuntu is 16.10.
...


Ok, I downloaded 16.04 AND 16.10 after I asked, so I'll run through the steps and see if it complains if I put GRUB somewhere other than the first partition....


So far Windows is stuffed and has to be reinstalled and Linux is stuffed!!!:haha:
...

There is this excellent OS called DOS. Perhaps you should try that?!? :O::D

In all seriousness, this is why I don't have a laptop, too many "features" to save battery power. (READ: "Too much stuff to go wrong".:D)
Although, If I could build a laptop the way I build my desktops, I'd definitely be looking into it!

Barracuda

[Reece]

Yes well I pressed cancel but the computer just sits there doing nothing so about the only thing left to do is reboot.:doh:
@ Rockin Robbins, we had tried to install Linux on it's own drive but now have grub problems. Both Windows and Linux are stuffed.
I seriously don't know what to do.:/\\!!

[BarracudaUAK]

I am digging for a solution, but I've had to work around a few problems I forgot about when it comes to running a Virtual Machine... so I can "install" Ubuntu and see what the trouble might be.
(no spare HDD laying around to do an actual install.)

I'm also digging for some info on the net about Ubuntu install related GRUB issues.

Work has been busy, so I'm running behind on everything, but I am looking. :o

Barracuda

[Reece]

Thanks for your time and effort Barracuda but don't go to that much bother, I am hoping next week a friend of mine will be able to help.
Due to distance (150Kms) I counted it out but after all the pain I've been through I might take the trip.:yep:

This computer bios is running UEFI mostly for Win 10, I have switched it over to Legacy bios but every time I try to run the Linux disk I get a fatal error.
I think I will have to remove all partitions on sda and sdb and start over.:doh:

[Rockin Robbins]

One thing I found that is if your computer is in UEFI mode Ubuntu automatically installs in UEFI mode. If you later change to BIOS mode, Ubuntu will no longer start. I just switched a Windows 10 HP All-in-one computer to Ubuntu and killing UEFI, then getting Ubuntu installed in BIOS mode was a royal pain. I finally got it right on the 4th try. I feel your pain.

[Skybird]

Reece, when I did my first installation of Linux Mint 17 over one year ago, I messed up to choose correct location for the boot loader, and so ended up a bit like you: booting did not work. Your case reminds me a bit of that. I found very detailed and friendly help, step by step, in the primary German forum for Linux Mint.

For the English world, the international primary forum seems to be here:
https://forums.linuxmint.com/

Check for the Newbie section whether they already have an article on it, else ask, as detailed as you can remember. They will talk you through in all detail, I'm sure. They surely did for me - and back then I was completely lost for one day. They rescued me.

Just do not criticise Linux, even when you have valid points. The Linux crowd is a bit - elitist, and touchy, somewhat. :)

Else, Robbins is right, never put Windows (even old Windows versions!) and Linux on the same HD. Always two HDs. Always install Windows first, Linux second. That is consent out there, and you find this advise in every book on Linux.

[Rockin Robbins]

Always install Windows first, Linux second. That is consent out there, and you find this advise in every book on Linux.
That's good to know since I haven't read any of the books:haha:. That's why it's funny about the articles about Microsoft singing Kumbaya and joining the Linux Foundation to "cooperate" with the Linux community, even "surrendering" to Linux in a few naive articles. Anybody who has puzzled out what you must do to make dual installation work well has to laugh at all that. Microsoft is not a friend of Linux. A huge change of culture in the Evil Empire would have to take place before any coexistance would be voluntary on their part.
.

[Skybird]

Yes, Microsft is no friend of Linux, their "surrender" to Linux is just due to the facts, and due to their hope to get a certain share in Linux-based software, one day big enough so that they could start to erode Linux from within by setting conditions once too many people again base on these Microsoftic code-injections once again. Like gamers and especially simmers still depend on Windows for game-launching.

Also, there is this story still running that UEFI - which replaces/d BIOS - originally was a project by Microsoft to make installation of Linux on new motherboards impossible or at least so difficult so that peopel would chose Windows instead. In principle what they do now with banning hardware driver support for new hardware running on older Windows versions, so that people should need to run W10.

Its a poisonous viper the Linux Foundations takes to its breast when accepting cooperation with Microsoft. They should not let it in, I think, not allowing it to now grew its foothold it already has squeezed into the door. There is already quite some Microsoft cooperation and code in Linuxverse, and I think that is enough. You can say "Lets see whether this viper really bites" - but why even accpeting the risk of finding out? Its not as if Microsoft has a friendly, clean reputation.

[Rockin Robbins]

At least, as the owner of a Linux machine, you have the right to choose your own immigration policy. Some believe the water's warm, let all come in who want to come in for any reason. Some believe that the Evil Empire, while having great things, also contains undesirable elements who will come along with the benefits, destroying both the beneficial aspects of the immigration and the present goodness which resides in Linux. Better to keep it all out you say. I don't see how you can avoid that position. To accept the good is to accept the bad and the consequences of that are not bearable.

I'm not even gaming on Windows machines any more. If it isn't available in native Linux format on Steam or wherever else, I just bit the bullet and quit playing it. It was unfortunate with Unreal Tournament III but such is the cost of safety and enjoyment of what I insist must remain MY computer.

[BarracudaUAK]

Thanks for your time and effort Barracuda but don't go to that much bother, I am hoping next week a friend of mine will be able to help.
Due to distance (150Kms) I counted it out but after all the pain I've been through I might take the trip.:yep:....


WOW!!! 2 weeks... I didn't realize it had been that long since my last post...

Did you manage to get it sorted out?

I did finally get a Virtual Machine setup and get Ubuntu 16.10 installed....
The way I managed to get it "the way I wanted", was I chose to manually create the partitions. Much simpler than it sounds, but ultimately I managed to get it sorted the way I wanted it.

I think you might have to choose that option.
The good thing is this: it won't actually make the changes until you start installing.
So you can "create" the partitions as many times as you need to, with out actually touching the hard drive.

If you haven't sorted it out yet let me know, And I can walk you through it....



....
This computer bios is running UEFI mostly for Win 10, I have switched it over to Legacy bios but every time I try to run the Linux disk I get a fatal error.
I think I will have to remove all partitions on sda and sdb and start over.:doh:

The only issue with using the UEFI bios, is as RR mentioned, Ubuntu will setup for UEFI, then it won't be configured for the regular old bios. (I turned mine off on my new desktop... but I'm not dual-booting.)
However, you can leave it on and it won't hurt. I know Redhat/Fedora use a "shim" to make the system work with UEFI, Debian/Ubuntu has there way of "making them (UEFI) talk".

If your "live dvd" isn't booting with the regular bios, then I'll have to dig for an answer, as that is a totally new one to me.

---------------------------------

In the VM, I installed Ubuntu with the Unity desktop, I still don't like it.

BUT my recent adventures in Linux land have gone like this...

I pulled one of my R9 380s from my 8 core, as they are supported by the old Catalyst/Crimson drivers, and the new amdgpu open-source kernel driver, and (during the beta, in Ubuntu), are supported by the new AMDGPU-PRO driver.

I pulled it, and placed it in my older dual-core, replacing a pair of HD6750s.
I installed Fedora 24 and updated to the latest kernel. Tried the latest installer patch make the last version of Catalyst/Crimson drivers work with the 4.9 kernel AND... blackscreen.
Well, nuts.
So I uninstall it, and reboot. Then I use the Fedora update tool, and update to Fedora 25.
As I can't get Counter Strike Source to run higher than 12fps in the stress test, and Unigine Heaven benchmark won't actually start with the opensource driver.

Now with Fedora 25, I'm getting the same results. I find out that a kernel boot setting is preventing amdgpu from working. So I remove the setting and amdgpu starts. But crashes with an error that I can't find any reference to on the web.
So I decide, since everything is running in software mode anyway, to install all the desktops.
....
and a bunch of irrelevant comments about them here....:O:


So I can say that you aren't the only one having trouble...

Barracuda

[Skybird]

I have said it before, and remind of it here: "New Windows PCs come with UEFI firmware and Secure Boot enabled. Secure Boot prevents operating systems from booting unless they’re signed by a key loaded into UEFI — out of the box, only Microsoft-signed software can boot." So: --> https://www.howtogeek.com/175641/how-to-boot-and-install-linux-on-a-uefi-pc-with-secure-boot/

[propbeanie]

I forgot all about that little jewel... My son's Dell laptop has that "feature".

[BarracudaUAK]

I have said it before, and remind of it here: "New Windows PCs come with UEFI firmware and Secure Boot enabled. Secure Boot prevents operating systems from booting unless they’re signed by a key loaded into UEFI — out of the box, only Microsoft-signed software can boot." So: --> https://www.howtogeek.com/175641/how-to-boot-and-install-linux-on-a-uefi-pc-with-secure-boot/


I read the link you posted which mentioned that Ubuntu has a "key" in the boot loader...
also note my comment in my last post:

...
I know Redhat/Fedora use a "shim" to make the system work with UEFI, Debian/Ubuntu has there way of "making them (UEFI) talk".
...

Redhat's "shim", and Ubuntu's "making them (UEFI) talk", were both references to them having Secure Boot "keys".


Installing Ubuntu with UEFI on and then turning UEFI off WILL play havoc with the boot loader, as it is setup for one way, and then you suddenly change the hardware, without changing the software configuration.
The "boot loader" simply "takes over" from the BIOS, and lets you choose which "OS" you want to boot. It's not a complicated, self (automatic) configuring piece of software.

ULTIMATELY, I think that Reece's booting issues are simply that Ubuntu failed to INSTALL the boot loader. Because, for what ever reason, it was unable to write to the MBR on the Primary Hard Drive.

I think he may need to re-install Ubuntu. Which shouldn't take too long.


Barracuda

[Rockin Robbins]

Interestingly, I just bought a refurbished computer for a client that came with Windows 10 and it only has BIOS: no UEFI! That means that Windows 10 does not need UEFI to work any more than Ubuntu does. They are simply using UEFI as a tool for restraint of free trade, a crime.

So, if you want to dual boot Windows and Ubuntu you can turn off UEFI, reinstall Windows (it does just like Ubuntu. If installed on a BIOS system it installs as BIOS, if installed on a UEFI system it installs as UEFI) and then install Ubuntu. I still recommend two separate hard drives, one for each operating system. Windows has a license to kill and does so without apology.

So neither UEFI nor BIOS is a barrier to Linux installation. Computers that are nasty to set up are because their BIOS menu screens are lousy. My HP All-in-One is a gem of carefully concealed options, hiding behind unknown acronyms meant to keep you from knowing what to do.

So BIOS/UEFI is pretty much a non-issue. I much prefer to use a computer under BIOS so the boot menu is available at bootup. Then I can keep USB and DVD boot out of the boot path, but still have them available to boot from with an <F12> during the boot process. I can also adjust BIOS settings during bootup if I want. That stuff just isn't possible with UEFI.

And while Microsoft flaunts UEFI as a new day in computer security, keeping you safe from things that have never happened to you in 20 years, twice a day they scoop up parts of all files on your system, including corporate secrets if you are a business foolish enough to drink their koolaid, encrypt and compress them into a still huge block that they send to Microsoft at your expense. You are not permitted to know what information they collect, why they collect it or what they are doing with that information.

It's the same distraction technique the Allies used for the Normandy Invasion. Rig up a dead body with fake invasion plans and put it onshore in such a way that the Jerries will find it and conclude the invasion will be quite a ways north. That's UEFI by the way "we are CONCERNED about your security!"

Then the real invasion comes at Normandy with the German divisions safely looking for the invasion elsewhere. The real aim of Windows is to serve you advertisement (half the "start menu" (insert derisive laughter here) is garish, Sesame Street colored tiles with sharp corners selling you stuff you don't want) and collecting information that they can use and sell for "targeted marketing."

Targeted marketing itself is nothing but a trojan horse. It is built on the premise that you don't look at anything but that which you are going to buy. And the corollary that you never buy anything that you haven't first looked at on the web. Serendipity is outlawed in their shallow way of thinking. So if you are a woman who has been suckered by clickbait into opening a page devoted to Viagra, the targeted marketers will say "she's going to buy Viagra!!!!!" And you will be subjected to Viagra ads for the next five years wherever you go on the Internet.

Are you ever going to buy Viagra? No. They are wasting their time. They are stealing money from the advertisers to whom they sell their garbage, which will actually cost them sales by making them spend their resources where there are no sales to be made.

The only way to bring this house of cards down is to refuse to buy anything from phone calls, or from ads inserted into websites by targeted marketers. Write the companies advertised and tell them what you are doing and why. "I have made a decision never to buy anything as a result of a phone call or targeted marketing on the Internet. I would have sought out and bought your product but will now seek an alternative source. Thank you very much for helping me make my purchasing decision."

[BarracudaUAK]

Interestingly, I just bought a refurbished computer for a client that came with Windows 10 and it only has BIOS: no UEFI! That means that Windows 10 does not need UEFI to work any more than Ubuntu does.




I did some digging, because I was thinking that my old dual-core would have been one of the machines that would have been running Win7 IF I had installed it years ago...
So if I had taken Microsoft up on the "Free Win10 upgrade" my dual-core would have been running W10... but it doesn't have UEFI...

I wasn't sure, but didn't want to say yes, or no, until I found something "concrete".

The only thing that I did run across most places that I looked was that "OEM" installs of Win10 MUST have UEFI and Secure Boot, AND they must be must remain on...
That is, the user shouldn't be able to Disable the UEFI or Secure Boot....

Whether or not this is true, I DO NOT KNOW.

I've only setup one Win10 machine for someone (a gift from a family member), and I didn't go digging that deep into it.
Although, when I went to activate his Office 2016... err, excuse me, his relabeled "office 365". It wanted... everything.

I suggested Libre Office, showed him it was free, and explained that it wasn't going to stop working in 6 months. He agreed, I set it up to default to MS Office formats -so any files he sent to others would be readable- and he was good to go.

So... one step at a time!
One of these days I'll get a few of the "I don't know anything about computers, so Linux seems like something I couldn't do" bunch over here and show them my massive glowing full tower, then I'll boot it, let them see the RGB mechanical switch keyboard, and finally, turn them loose in KDE. *we need a "Evil Villian" / "Evil Overlord" laugh Smilie here*


Barracuda

[Rockin Robbins]

I have switched Windows 10 installations from UEFI to BIOS. It works fine. A customer wanted to be able to press the normal keys on bootup to choose boot device. UEFI doesn't allow that.

Think of it this way. In order to access UEFI settings you have to access them from a booted Windows installation. But if Windows crashes then you lose access to those settings, don't you? It's just a flaky system that protects no one.

It's like the Windows change between XP and 7. To the applauding choruses of computer critic drones bought and paid for by Microsoft, the superiority of the Windows 7 repair techniques were trumpeted across the land. All the computer magazines, all the tech websites spouted identical words in unison (a clue they came from the Microsoft muse), "Windows 7 has much better repair tools if your Windows installation goes bust!!!!"

But in fact, system startup repair was and is a black box. "Windows is repairing your system. If it works you'll be able to boot normally after this is done. The procedure may take a long time." That's the sum total of your information and nothing is done to give YOU any useful information which may be used to repair the installation. Not only that but Windows XP used to have a repair install procedure. You put the original install disk in the drive, select Repair Install and Windows is reinstalled, saving all your programs and settings. In Windows 7 and above that option is gone! Instead, you can only access repair install if you do it from your running Windows system. Guess what? If Windows ran you WOULDN'T NEED A REPAIR INSTALL.

Non-existent security. Removal of user options. Severe feature cutbacks. That's Microsoft. The answer is Linux. Steam now has over 3000 commercial games natively working in Linux, 1000 of them released just in the past month. Over a million Steam customers own and play Linux version games. Just released Wine 2.2 runs Fallout 3 and 4 flawlessly. In Linux, no soulless corporation will hunt you down and serve you a lawsuit for publishing a repair disk that actually works.

By the way, I found a great and free Microsloth Windoze repair tool called Lazesoft Recovery Suite (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwib6Ye52pnSAhXG0SYKHeGEALAQFggcMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lazesoft.com%2F&usg=AFQjCNGcSVmc1M2EjqGU3QroRNIl-Iem1g&sig2=DvhAOqXNlzh-7p1O_hkhIw). Has many tools that Microsoft doesn't want you to have. Grab it quick before they are sued into oblivion by the company who has your back and cares about your computing experience. With it you can even make, save and restore disk images, just like Acronis True Image! It also has genuinely informative and effective startup repair tools. That alone means Microsoft cannot tolerate their existence.

[propbeanie]

... By the way, I found a great and free Microsloth Windoze repair tool called Lazesoft Recovery Suite (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwib6Ye52pnSAhXG0SYKHeGEALAQFggcMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lazesoft.com%2F&usg=AFQjCNGcSVmc1M2EjqGU3QroRNIl-Iem1g&sig2=DvhAOqXNlzh-7p1O_hkhIw). Has many tools that Microsoft doesn't want you to have...
Nice find, sir - not to take this too far off topic... :03:

[Rockin Robbins]

I just came up with a brilliant new solution to losing your keys. Merely lock them in the car! Hold it......I'm getting a call from the personnel department at Microsoft....:D:D

[Reece]

Please see: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2468802&postcount=35
Thanks.