8th Borei class laid down

[ikalugin]

https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/198361/13428093.73/0_da108_becae421_orig.jpg
What it says on the tin.

[Kapitan]

Nice to see the commitment to the fleet in this way, i hope that they keep to the full production option of 12 boats.


This also means the retirement of Delta IV and III submarines in the relatively near future.

I hope that this also means a regeneration of the entire fleet as a whole and the new Lider class or another DDG design is acted upon rather sharpish as the current remaining sovremennys and udaloys are approaching the end of their lives.

[ikalugin]

Delta-IVs are there to stay. In fact Delta-IIIs may stay, as they are getting upgraded payloads for their SLBMs.

My estimate would be that Russian Navy plans to maintain ~12-14 SSBNs in the force.

[Kapitan]

I know the K64 now Ks64 Moskva has been updated and that she also is now taking over as special mission submarine.

Do they have any plans to update or replace the rescue submarines like priz ?

Do you also think that one or indeed two delta's would be converted to carry mini submarines much like the India class ? Losharik

12-14 SSBN's are a good number and fitting to the Russian Fleet

[ikalugin]

Basically there are several separate programs here:
- construction of special purpose submarines out of Delta and Oscar series submarines.
- maintaining ~3 Delta-III submarines with the new payloads for their SLBMs.

[Kapitan]

with the oscars being upgraded for the Project 949AM construction to carry land attack missiles instead of ASM, a delta III would be a useful tool for that too much like an ohio conversion

[ikalugin]

Delta-IIIs are old and should not operate outside of the Bastions in my opinion.
So refitting Delta-IIIs in conventional role is a bad idea IMO.

949AMs are getting UKSK equivalent launcher with 72 cells/sub. Currently this means the capability to employ Yahont/Oniks series AShMs and Kalibr series LAMs. Yahont/Oniks have a confirmed land attack capability (Bastions were used against land based targets in Syria), in future they are likely to receive Zircon hypersonic AShMs just like the other UKSK patern launchers.

[Redwake]

I love this forum...actual intelligence in the users here. Thank you gents for having gray matter lmao.

[Kapitan]

Delta-IIIs are old and should not operate outside of the Bastions in my opinion.
So refitting Delta-IIIs in conventional role is a bad idea IMO.

949AMs are getting UKSK equivalent launcher with 72 cells/sub. Currently this means the capability to employ Yahont/Oniks series AShMs and Kalibr series LAMs. Yahont/Oniks have a confirmed land attack capability (Bastions were used against land based targets in Syria), in future they are likely to receive Zircon hypersonic AShMs just like the other UKSK patern launchers.

Im aware the Delta III are old but still have a little use in them, you guys did alright with the yankee conversions and they were old ! and it is interesting about Zircon missiles so this means there is a definite ok from the kremlin to get this going ?

[ikalugin]

Get what going?

[Kapitan]

Get what going?

Should have re phrased this, they have had the go ahead to start production and finish testing of the Zircon which will mean deployment in 2017 once production starts

what im asking really is have they got the ok for it to go into full production and issuance to the fleet

[ikalugin]

Zircon deployment/production is a bit further in the future. At the moment Zircon is in flight testing, the UKSK (on the refitted Kirovs) is being adapted to use it which, in my opinion, implies that all UKSK patern VLS launchers would be adapted to use it.

Current UKSK carriers:
- Byuan class small missile ships
- Yasen class SSN/SSGN
- Grigorovich class FFG
- Gorshkov class FFG
Near future UKSK carriers:
- Karakut class small missile ships
- Gremuashy class corvettes
- Oscar class SSGN refits
- Kirov class heavy nuclear powered missile cruiser refits
Further down the road:
- Huski class SSN/SSGN
- Leader class DDG

Another interesting developments by the way:
- new range figures for the Yahont/Oniks AShMs.
- the proven ability of the same to attack land based targets with precision.
(previous AShMs could also attack land based targets, but would require those targets to have good radar signature)

[Kapitan]

Zircon deployment/production is a bit further in the future. At the moment Zircon is in flight testing, the UKSK (on the refitted Kirovs) is being adapted to use it which, in my opinion, implies that all UKSK patern VLS launchers would be adapted to use it.

Current UKSK carriers:
- Byuan class small missile ships
- Yasen class SSN/SSGN
- Grigorovich class FFG
- Gorshkov class FFG
Near future UKSK carriers:
- Karakut class small missile ships
- Gremuashy class corvettes
- Oscar class SSGN refits
- Kirov class heavy nuclear powered missile cruiser refits
Further down the road:
- Huski class SSN/SSGN
- Leader class DDG

Another interesting developments by the way:
- new range figures for the Yahont/Oniks AShMs.
- the proven ability of the same to attack land based targets with precision.
(previous AShMs could also attack land based targets, but would require those targets to have good radar signature)


It appears you guys have been rather busy, i do think you need new DDG;s for sure but having refitted some oscars and kirovs they would do for now, and the slavas will be around for a little longer no doubt.

Its interesting to note the Yakhont has land attack capability think its going to be an interesting few years ahead, means more trips to russia i think

[ikalugin]

https://youtu.be/yHT8qrB7B5k
4th Karakut class small missile ship layed down.

[Kapitan]

its a good thing to see that the fleet is getting more investment people dont realise just how much things have changed in Russia and also just how many new ships are coming along the old "rusting at anchor" days are over

[ikalugin]

Unfortunately the only new major combatants under production are the Yasen and Borei class subs. We could really use some new high end destroyers/cruisers to suppliment/replace aging Slavas and Kirovs. We could also use some progress with Gorshkov class - as those Udaloys and Sovremenys need replacements.

On the positive note - the elderly Kilos and the new minor surface combatants (corvettes and small missile ships) are produced at an adequate rate.

Meanwhile:
http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/zvezdochka_ru/39660376/365260/365260_1000.jpg

[Kapitan]

Moskva delta IV re built nice looking submarine

And to be honest i think getting rid of the Kuznetsov Kirovs and Slavas wouldnt be a bad thing, then focus the saved money on DDG production.

The thing is you are desperate for a new type DDG to replace the two ageing types and that needs the biggest focus.

The biggest issue i find with the Russian navy is they build many different types of vessels to effectively do one job most navies have one type of FFG for ASW and one type of DDG for ASuW and then couple them with a carrier or LPD LPH

To be honest getting rid of Kuznetsov would be a blessing and maybe focus on other more needed items rather than these ships that are getting old.

[ikalugin]

The problem is - refitting Kirovs is very price efficient.

The other one is - if we now get rid of the old ships, especially the major surface combatants, we would not get the replacements in time and the Navy would loose skills and capabilities.
I mean - look at the brits now, they have to build up their carrier skills from scratch.

[Kapitan]

The problem is - refitting Kirovs is very price efficient.

The other one is - if we now get rid of the old ships, especially the major surface combatants, we would not get the replacements in time and the Navy would loose skills and capabilities.
I mean - look at the brits now, they have to build up their carrier skills from scratch.

not 100% true alot of the FAA pilots (the ones who didnt retire or take redundancy) are flying F18 from american carriers to keep current they also still fly some harriers off the LHA's so they still remain current.

i know what your getting at but the kuznetsov is a money pit looking over the finances spent in some ways makes sense but kuznetsov could be reduced to training platform untill such time as a replacement found to be honest Ulyonsk was a good design