View Full Version : Presidential debate October 18th Las Vegas
Mr Quatro
10-17-16, 10:39 PM
This thread is not about the election ... it is just about the Presidential debate in Lad Vegas Wednesday night October 18th.
Just a poll of sorts ... mods can close it after the debate.
Do you think this last debate will increase the point gap Hillary has or decrease the point gap? or will it put Donald Trump in the lead or will it stay about the same which is 47% Hillary to 43% Trump by ABC polls and even 11 point difference in the NBC polls :o
or make the two even closer to an already crazy national election?
Takeda Shingen
10-17-16, 10:56 PM
Might want to remake the poll so that you can only select one option.
Mr Quatro
10-17-16, 11:10 PM
Might want to remake the poll so that you can only select one option.
I don't know how to do that, but your right ... can Steve or Jim do that?
I think Trump will close the gap, providing he's able to dodge any more disastrous past mistakes coming up to haunt him before it does. But it's probably not going to be enough, if he was going to turn this ship around it would have to have been done in the last debate, and he made an effort but it just wasn't enough. I mean, I have to give him his due in the last debate, he didn't flip out, but he did drop enough soundbites to be used against him, promising to jail Hillary for example, which coupled with the Make America Grope Again campaign, it was enough to give the point to Hillary, especially when a great deal of his own party were deserting him, and he threw his own running mate under the bus as well. I maintain that if he had gone worse that debate then Pence would have handed in the towel, but he managed to see it through, and land some good solid hits on Hillary, so Pence stayed clinging to the mast.
So unless he wins this debate by an absolute blinder, or Hillary gets a slight cold, then I don't think it'll matter, but...again...Dewey vs Truman, so, who can be sure.
Torplexed
10-18-16, 12:03 AM
Will Donald even show up if Hillary doesn't take the pre-debate drug test he demanded? Apparently, the drugs work in conjunction with the Parkinson-suppressing, back-straightening, cough-fixing, quick answer-giving apparatus she wears under her pantsuit, so she certainly needs them.
Catfish
10-18-16, 03:09 AM
I keep asking myself the same questions again and again.
- Why is there no other candidate than those two?
- How is it possible that an obviously crazy candidate even gets so far - in a "democracy"?
(then thinking of Bush senior and Bush junior ... were there no other candidates, so that just of all the son of a forner president becomes the new one ?? This looks more like a royal descendence, than an election)
- Why is H. Clinton so absolutely hated (apart from the republicans who automatically hate everything democratic), i mean there are other US presidents who got away with much worse stuff
- Is this even a democracy or is it not like the good old middle-ages-feudal "election" system, where the nobles/rich elected their leader -> "Kurfuersten"-system
- So there are only two parties, which now even have become one fraction?
- Is there no rational reasonable person who can do better, as a new president for America?
- Why do republicans (but maybe not only) always talk of tyranny, accusing the president of not leaving when the period is over - not one president in the US has ever remained in place, after the period he was elected for.
?
Apart from that i think (personal opinion) that Obama has been the most reasonable and intelligent president of the US, since a long time. I still wonder how it was possible that he was elected.
Jimbuna
10-18-16, 05:08 AM
I don't know how to do that, but your right ... can Steve or Jim do that?
I've been into the edit function and don't see a way of changing the poll voting criteria. It may be the case that said criteria can't be changed.
You could always PM Neal.
Commander Wallace
10-18-16, 07:17 AM
I keep asking myself the same questions again and again.
- Why is there no other candidate than those two?
This question has been asked a number of times in various political arenas. Former Minnesota Governor, Jesse Ventura has said that there really is no democratic process if your choices are limited to one of these two parties.
One could argue the Libertarian party is a viable 3rd party. However, They can't be a viable 3rd party if not invited to the presidential candidate debates.
promising to jail Hillary for example
He didn't promise to jail her. That's just the corporate medias pro-hillary spin on it. He said he would have his AG appoint an independent council to look into it. The "You'd be in jail" comment was referring to the fact that it's pretty obvious to anyone not already drinking the Democrats Koolaid that had Obama administration not put the fix in she quite likely would be prosecuted and jailed for mishandling classified material like everybody else does.
I keep asking myself the same questions again and again.
Why do republicans (but maybe not only) always talk of tyranny, accusing the president of not leaving when the period is over - not one president in the US has ever remained in place, after the period he was elected for.
Democrats made the same accusations at the end of both Bush presidencies and Reagan's before that. Remember you can find somebody to make any outlandish claim. It's the corporate media who decides which claims see the light of day and since they favor the left it's only the right's crazies who make the "news".
Apart from that i think (personal opinion) that Obama has been the most reasonable and intelligent president of the US, since a long time. I still wonder how it was possible that he was elected.Reasonable has not been a word i'd use to describe him. Obama had a chance to bring both sides together but instead chose to exacerbate and deepen the divide among Americans. Significant numbers of Americans believe race relations have gotten worse under this reasonable and intelligent president.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jul/19/race-relations-reach-all-time-low-under-obama-poll/
Why is there no other candidate than those two?Actually there are two other candidates in the election. The one i'm voting for, the Libertarian parties candidate Gary Johnson, and the Green party candidate Jill Stein. Gary is currently polling around 7-9% and Stein around 3%. But to both the Dems and the Republicans i'm "throwing my vote away".
AVGWarhawk
10-18-16, 08:43 AM
It's gonna be great! I got people. Amazing, totally amazing. Crooked Hillary!:doh:
It is my belief Trump will unleash because he has nothing to lose. Hillary will do her best to make the viewing audience believe the world is full of rainbow farting unicorns that live in the land of money trees. The rich will pay for it all!! She will go to win the debate with vomiting out the same crap we hear every 4 years. We have a plan(no we don't) to make us stronger together...vomit...
I think I will be watching re-runs of Thomas the Tank Train instead.
Catfish
10-18-16, 09:00 AM
Ok, thanks for the explanations (and i mean it!).
Regarding (as failing to find a better word) "racial unrest", i wonder why this happened, especially "under" Obama?
On one hand you can blame it on Obama, because as a president he is to be held responsible. On the other hand, i do not think he told the police to engage more in scrapping or shooting coloured people – or did he actively or passively fail to get coloured people, or the police, under control?
You could say so, but for me it looks like the physical presence of a black president either gave the coloured people a reason to go strong/crow? (sry), or it was a defiance reaction from some racist police officers because of this very black president.
I really don't know but some of the events happening around cop-coloured interaction looked nothing else than racist. Yes i know there are a lot of coloured police officers, too, but i speak about those events we all saw in the media.
I fail to see how a president can influence people being in denial, or in plain aggressive opposition..
Mr Quatro
10-18-16, 10:01 AM
Actually there are two other candidates in the election. The one i'm voting for, the Libertarian parties candidate Gary Johnson, and the Green party candidate Jill Stein. Gary is currently polling around 7-9% and Stein around 3%. But to both the Dems and the Republicans i'm "throwing my vote away".
What your really saying in effect is that the loser can blame the parties you speak of ... due to the 4 to 5% margin of error. The loser of the POTUS can blame these third party candidates or the winner can thank the third party persons for their participation. :yep:
He didn't promise to jail her. That's just the corporate medias pro-hillary spin on it. He said he would have his AG appoint an independent council to look into it. The "You'd be in jail" comment was referring to the fact that it's pretty obvious to anyone not already drinking the Democrats Koolaid that had Obama administration not put the fix in she quite likely would be prosecuted and jailed for mishandling classified material like everybody else does.
There's a lot of kool-aid being drunk around here, and it's not just democrats drinking it.
Quite frankly, if you're having to decipher and put in special clauses to what a candidate is saying then the candidate should not be saying it. Trump is a gold mine to spin, and you can blame the 'liberal media' and all the other Alex Jones boogey-men if you like, but at the end of the day Donald Trump is a very poor candidate for President, even more so than Hillary Clinton, to the point where the party that he's running for is regretting deeply everything that has happened. Now, you can say that this is exactly what you want to happen, that you want the 'establishment'™ to be shaken up, but quite frankly the only thing it has shaken up has been the Republican Party and it's damn near broken it. If you wanted to make the GOP even more toxic, then congratulations, electing Donald Trump to be its representative for President has done it.
What your really saying in effect is that the loser can blame the parties you speak of ... due to the 4 to 5% margin of error. The loser of the POTUS can blame these third party candidates or the winner can thank the third party persons for their participation. :yep:
Yeah it all depends on which of the two big parties the third party draws the most votes away from.
Ross Perot for example definitely cost George Bush 41 his reelection in 1992 as Perots supporters were mostly drawn from the Republican base. Ralph Nader did pretty much the same to the Democrats in the 2000 election.
There's a lot of kool-aid being drunk around here, and it's not just democrats drinking it.
Quite frankly, if you're having to decipher and put in special clauses to what a candidate is saying then the candidate should not be saying it. Trump is a gold mine to spin, and you can blame the 'liberal media' and all the other Alex Jones boogey-men if you like, but at the end of the day Donald Trump is a very poor candidate for President, even more so than Hillary Clinton, to the point where the party that he's running for is regretting deeply everything that has happened. Now, you can say that this is exactly what you want to happen, that you want the 'establishment'™ to be shaken up, but quite frankly the only thing it has shaken up has been the Republican Party and it's damn near broken it. If you wanted to make the GOP even more toxic, then congratulations, electing Donald Trump to be its representative for President has done it.
OK but why congratulate me? I never vote in party primaries and intend to vote for Johnson next month and would have even if the Republicans had run a better candidate than Trump.
In any case that doesn't take away one bit from the fact that a Democrat administration, abetted by the corporate media, was going to do whatever it took to keep the Democrat nominee from answering to her crimes including holding secret meetings between the AG and the defendants husband. Nor does it take away from the fact that the same biased corporate media would have minimized and excused what they are crucifying Trump for doing if he was a Dem just like they are doing with the steady stream of incriminating emails from Clinton and Co.
OK but why congratulate me? I never vote in party primaries and intend to vote for Johnson next month and would have even if the Republicans had run a better candidate than Trump.
In any case that doesn't take away one bit from the fact that a Democrat administration, abetted by the corporate media, was going to do whatever it took to keep the Democrat nominee from answering to her crimes including holding secret meetings between the AG and the defendants husband. Nor does it take away from the fact that the same biased corporate media would have minimized and excused what they are crucifying Trump for doing if he was a Dem just like they are doing with the steady stream of incriminating emails from Clinton and Co.
Sorry, bad choice of words, I meant the people who elected Trump to be Republican candidate, not yourself personally.
Absolutely, the Democrats have pulled very sleezy tricks, although I'm not sure in the most recent wikileaks emails exactly what is meant to be so devastating, the fact that it was Russian government activities that brought these emails out is perhaps a bit more concerning than the contents of the emails themselves which only serve to confirm a lot of what we already knew or suspected, that Hillary will think one thing but say another (just like most politicians) that she wants open borders and open trade (I can see open borders being a problem for Americans these days, but open trade is one of the founding principles of the free market system which America has always campaigned for), and that she will do anything to win. Now, imagine if this had been Mitt Romney, not Trump, running...now unless the Dems were able to pull up some kind of massive Mormon conspiracy, he would be making absolute hay with these emails, and you can be sure that the GOP would be at full capacity on pushing everything they had to keep anything dishonest or troublesome about Hillary on the front pages. But it's not Mitt, it's Trump, and he's a walking headline generator. It's a man who is more newsworthy than his party, and the fact that his party is not, and has never been, fully unified behind him only underlines the fact that the GOP has thrown this one. It let Trump get that momentum, because let's face it, if the GOP fact-checking hounds were anywhere near as competent as they claim to be (and indeed normally are) then these sex allegations and pussy comments would have come out during the Republican primaries and we would have Ted Cruz running against Hillary most likely, but the GOP stepped back because part of it wanted Trump, they wanted that strong man, that non-politically correct man, they wanted his power, his 'charisma' and they wanted that image, to court the 'Alt-Right', the Breitbarts and the 4chans. Trump was trendy, so they gave him a pass, when really all of the warning bells should have been ringing, when all of their senior members were shuffling their feet and saying "Well...errm...this might not be a good idea." Now all the chickens have come home to roost, and sure the Democrats have had a part in that, they've played some strong cards, but the simple fact is, Trump has played weak hands in return, he's blustered and bumbled from one soundbite to the next, and given his enemies absolutely everything they could have wanted. He's a perfect gift to the Democrat party, any other competent GOP candidate would have wiped the floor with Hillary, who is one of the most hated women in America, even her own voters are not fond of her, and Trump could have made hay with that, he could have split their party in two, brought chaos to the Democrats, but he's not the person to do that, instead he pretty much quotes from Alex Jones, attacks SNL, and basically bumbles around like an idiot.
I don't blame you for going third party, I think that I would still vote for Hillary if only to vote against Trump, but that's probably because I got burned badly with a third party in 2010 and that third party got vaporised in 2015. I hope that this doesn't happen with your third party, but I imagine that they've got more political acumen than Nick Clegg. :03:
I don't know how the GOP could have found out about the tape since it was hidden in an NBC vault (and or DNC HQ) for when it could be used with the greatest effect.
I don't know how the GOP could have found out about the tape since it was hidden in an NBC vault (and or DNC HQ) for when it could be used with the greatest effect.
What about the bit where he admitted walking through backstage at the Miss Universe pagents quote:
"They're standing there with no clothes. Is everybody ok? And you see these incredible looking women. And so I sort of get away with things like that."
That was from the Howard Stern show in 2005, and that's after the NBC days, so the GOP could perhaps have got that...I don't know the internal workings on the GOP intelligence service but it seems that they have dropped the ball in a manner which would make the CIA jealous. I mean, it's Donald Trump for goodness sake, not some nobody from hicksville, there must have been something they could have used.
AVGWarhawk
10-18-16, 02:20 PM
What about the bit where he admitted walking through backstage at the Miss Universe pagents quote:
"They're standing there with no clothes. Is everybody ok? And you see these incredible looking women. And so I sort of get away with things like that."
That was from the Howard Stern show in 2005, and that's after the NBC days, so the GOP could perhaps have got that...I don't know the internal workings on the GOP intelligence service but it seems that they have dropped the ball in a manner which would make the CIA jealous. I mean, it's Donald Trump for goodness sake, not some nobody from hicksville, there must have been something they could have used.
I suspect the GOP never thought Trump would make it this far. Trump would fizzle on his own. No need to go digging. Herman Caine was the same. When he became a serious contender did the sexual harassment news start breaking. The witch hunt began. It is the same tactic used here. All is fair in love and war.
Takeda Shingen
10-18-16, 02:29 PM
What about the bit where he admitted walking through backstage at the Miss Universe pagents quote:
"They're standing there with no clothes. Is everybody ok? And you see these incredible looking women. And so I sort of get away with things like that."
That was from the Howard Stern show in 2005, and that's after the NBC days, so the GOP could perhaps have got that...I don't know the internal workings on the GOP intelligence service but it seems that they have dropped the ball in a manner which would make the CIA jealous. I mean, it's Donald Trump for goodness sake, not some nobody from hicksville, there must have been something they could have used.
It isn't a problem with vetting. Everybody knew what Trump was all about, but once he accumulated the appropriate number of delegates the die was cast. The thing is that the primary system in the US is more of a team of rivals. The candidates want to win, but they also want the party to win. So you go after the other guys on the stage but you don't tear them down so much that the damage is irreparable.
Of course Trump didn't play by that rule, but everybody else did. And so he bullied his way through relatively unscathed. The vetters in the party knew about these things, everybody did, but what were they supposed to do? The only option was to sit and wait for this stuff to be used.
Platapus
10-18-16, 04:50 PM
I keep asking myself the same questions again and again.
Legitimate questions. And questions that deserve a serious answer. Here are my explanations.
- Why is there no other candidate than those two?
There are other candidates. Through more tradition than any other reason, the two major political parties nominate only one candidate for POTUS.
- How is it possible that an obviously crazy candidate even gets so far - in a "democracy"?
It is because of our democracy that these candidates were nominated. The way candidates were nominated has changed several times in our history.
In the first "real" election between Addams and Jefferson, each was nominated by their respective party members of congress.
in 1832, the first national conventions were used to nominate a candidate. This was the start of the "smoke filled backroom deals that continued to the 20th century.
From 1901-1906 various states started passing laws where the citizens of a state directly voted for delegates who, in turn attended the convention and voted for the nominee. This system mimics the electoral college method of voting for POTUS. This system caught on and by 1912 pretty much all the states had similar directly elected delegate systems.
President Wilson asked the state legislators to enact a unified national presidential primary law where the citizens would directly vote for the nominee. This did not go over well with the states. In addition to a prohibitive cost, there was actually a low voter turnout for these types of primaries. The political parties were also reluctant to allow citizens to make this decision and not the political party officials. Low voter turnout is hardly a new concept in the US. So little by little, the states either repealed or just ignored and the states went back to various forms of delegate elected state conventions. The result was that "Party Bosses" generally ran the conventions and not surprising, the people being nominated tended to be the people the political bosses wanted.
With the Depression and WWII, there was little interest in reforming the primary systems and everything stayed the same until 1944. This is one of the reasons FDR was able to be nominated four times.
From 1944-1968, voter participation increased and more interest in the nomination process resulted in the states adopting a more representative form of nomination.
The Democratic Party was the first to overhaul their nomination process but it slowly evolved over 20 years with no less than six separate committees working on this problem. Just like when this country was formed, there was disagreement about the number of representatives each state would have in the Congress, there was much disagreement about how many delegates would each state have at the Democratic National Convention.
The O'Hara Commission '69-'72 established a compromise system where a combination of the states total population and the number of popular votes for the previous four elections would be used to determine the number of delegates that each state could send to the convention. These rules were modified by a few more committees over the years.
All went well until the Hunt Commission '80-'82. There was a problem. With giving the citizens so much power over who would be a delegate and therefor the nomination process, the political parties of each state were seeing their power diminish. Remember that the political parties are a private organization and really have no official standing in the government. As a private organization, the officers feel that they should have more of a say of who gets nominated. The Hunt Commission solution? A new separate category of delegates called Super Delegates. The number of Super Delegates would be 14% of the total number of delegates. These delegates would be elected by party officials and would represent the party's desire. Super Delegates are not as bad as some make them out to be. Since the 1980's there has been no nomination that has been turned by the vote of the Super Delegates.
How about them Republicans? Well they were doing pretty much the same thing at the same time. Slowly revamping the nomination process albeit a bit slower then the Democrats did and they were not breaking any speed records. Political changes happen slowly.
The Republicans even considered their form of Super Delegates, but instead opted for their own system of unbound delegates, meaning that even though the citizens may elect a delegate based on their desire for a specific candidate, the delegates are not bound by this. It gets very complicated in that each state has its own system of designating which delegates are bound (have to follow the citizen vote) and unbound (can vote how they wish).
The bottom line is that both the Democrats and Republicans have the same types of delegates that are not bound to the citizen's wishes. The Democrats get more publicity because they are more open about it by identifying the Super Delegates, while the Republicans are more private with a complicated system of designating numbers of bound and unbound delegates. Neither side really has the right to criticize the other.
So after all that almost interesting history, the answer to your question is that both parties have nominated losers, because of the democratic way the nominees are chosen these days -- by popular vote.
Popular vote, as we all know, can be highly influenced by the media, the PACs, the political parties, and the candidates committees. But in the end, it is the people electing the bound delegates and if the Super Delegates/unbound delegates either agree or do not have enough votes to override, the popular vote carries the nomination.
Incidentally, this is why we elect the present by electoral college and not by popular vote. A popular vote does not guarantee a quality candidate.
- Why is H. Clinton so absolutely hated (apart from the republicans who automatically hate everything democratic), i mean there are other US presidents who got away with much worse stuff
Well, in my opinion, it is because she has been a politician for almost all of her life, but she is not a good politician. She is crocked like other politicians but is not very good at hiding it like more successful politicians.
She is, of course, suffering for the sins of her husband. Because of her husbands political career dating back to the state days, she has been in the spotlight so there has been more time to discover dirt about her than time to discover dirt about other politicians. Most people have known about Hillary since the mid 1980's. That's 30 years. How long has the public known about the other candidates? Familiarity breeds contempt and 30 years of spotlights tends to show all the flaws and Hillary has many flaws.
- Is this even a democracy or is it not like the good old middle-ages-feudal "election" system, where the nobles/rich elected their leader -> "Kurfuersten"-system
Well we are a republic where we democratically elect our representatives. We are not, never have been, and hopefully never well be a democracy. We like to call ourselves a democracy but that's only because it sounds nice. An actual democracy the size of our country would be a disaster.
- So there are only two parties, which now even have become one fraction?
Well, there are about 15 parties actually. Not all of them participate in all the elections. But for pretty much all practical purposes there are two political parties. It is, unfortunately a vicious circle. A lot of people won't vote for a third party because they think that a lot of people won't vote for a third party. Since that mindset makes people think that voting for a third party is "throwing away their vote" they vote for one of the two main losers, thereby reinforcing the understanding that there are only two viable political parties.
- Is there no rational reasonable person who can do better, as a new president for America?
Cynically, anyone who is truly qualified for the job probably does not want it. :D but not so cynically, considering the political environment for the past 40 years, would you want to be president? it used to be a pretty powerful position but now, with the advent of the Internet Tubes where anyone can share their bitches and complaints to everyone else, who would want the job. With Congress pretty much evenly divided, anyone who becomes president will be blocked by the opposing party.
It would be foolish to think that the Democrats won't take the same blocking attitude that the Republicans have done if a Republican became president.
Personally, I think that the publicity elected delegate system is flawed. A popular vote tends to elect people who are popular and not necessarily the right person. I wished I had the right answer as I could then sell it to the DNC and RNC and retire. Like any other political system, it requires a delicate balance and compromise between often conflicting ideals. As our history has shown, it is not an easy straightforward problem to solve. Either extreme is bad, but exactly where is the right balance between popular votes and party nominations?
I also believe that there should be no open primaries. Since the primaries are to communicate to a private organization (DNC/RNC), I feel it is appropriate for those private organizations to limit participation to registered members. Yes that would mean that independents like me won't be able to vote in a major party's primary but that's the disadvantage of being an independent... and the advantage.
- Why do republicans (but maybe not only) always talk of tyranny, accusing the president of not leaving when the period is over - not one president in the US has ever remained in place, after the period he was elected for.
First of all, it is not just republicans and certainly not all republicans. Don't fall into a common fallacy of taking the actions of a minority and generalizing it to the whole set of population. Neither the Democrats nor the Republican parties have ever tried to cancel an election nor accused the other party of doing the same. Members of the DNC/RNC have made such comments, but there are idiots in any population set.
If my memory serves me, I believe that it is the Republican Presidents that have been falsely accused of wanting to cancel elections more often than democratic presidents. It does not really matter. There is no way any US president would ever be able to pull this off.
The conspiracy morons often reference some sort of "emergency power" that allows the president to continue past his or her term. These emergency powers are always not defined.....because they don't exist. There is NO presidential power that would allow a president to suspend elections and continue past the term. Not in times of war. Not even in times of civil war. It does not happen in the US.
Once Congress tells a president to "git", they gotta git. The outgoing president does not have to participate in the inauguration of the new president.
Apart from that i think (personal opinion) that Obama has been the most reasonable and intelligent president of the US, since a long time. I still wonder how it was possible that he was elected.
You are, of course, entitled to your opinion as are other people. I tend not to deal in hyperbole. He is neither the best nor the worst president we have had. Anyone who claims that he is the worst president we have ever had needs to read up on their 19th century presidential history. We had some doozies back then.
I hope that helped you understand the situation better. These were all legitimate questions.
That was from the Howard Stern show in 2005, and that's after the NBC days, so the GOP could perhaps have got that...I don't know the internal workings on the GOP intelligence service but it seems that they have dropped the ball in a manner which would make the CIA jealous. I mean, it's Donald Trump for goodness sake, not some nobody from hicksville, there must have been something they could have used.
Or maybe they did know and deliberately decided not to prepare for it. It's no secret that many in the party leadership want him to fail.
FWIW I heard on the way into work that Howard Stern has said he would not release tapes of his old shows where Trump was a guest.
Stern said on his SiriusXM radio show Monday morning. “I feel Donald Trump did the show in an effort to be entertaining and have fun with us, and I feel like it’d be a betrayal to any of our guests if I sat there and played them now, where people are attacking him.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2016/10/17/howard-stern-wont-replay-old-donald-trump-interviews-it-would-be-a-betrayal/
There was no button for me in this debate related poll. IMO this debate will have no effect. I think most people have already made their minds up regarding the election.
I believe that there are a lot of people who won't admit to friends, family, and pollsters that they support 'The Donald' - I call them 'Closet Trump Supporters'. Furthermore, Trump has attracted a lot of uncounted 'first time voters'. His rallies are packed with thousands, and thousands more are turned away. Her supporters appear to number in the hundreds, and they don't seem enthusiastic.
Someone mentioned Jesse Ventura. There is the Jesse factor too; people may vote Trump to spite the establishment just as my late Dad did. He was surprised the next morning to see that Jesse won. I was living in another state at the time.
I don't think that anyone can say that the third debate won't be entertaining. Trump is after all a master entertainer. This final debate will also have a good unbiased moderator in Chris Wallace.
Sorry if I strayed a little from only commenting on 'the 3rd debate'. I also wrote about other contributing factors to take into consideration with the third debate in calculating the final result.
Tchocky
10-18-16, 07:53 PM
I don't see any other outcome being likely except for Trump being Trump.
He'll excite his base and lose the election.
Clinton only has to let him go on and the damage will be done.
He's shown himself to be his own worst enemy.
Catfish
10-19-16, 02:18 AM
Legitimate questions. And questions that deserve a serious answer. Here are my explanations. [...]
Wow thanks! I read a bit here and there on the web, but this is the first time i come to understand how elections are done in the US, especially this thing with the "Super delegates" :up:
And all states by themselves.. :hmmm:
Seems s lot is based on historical events, and evolved out of understanding what works and what not. And yes, how it is described it is not a real democracy, but as you said a direct one for all aspects of decisions would probably screw up a country - you need at least some education, knowledge and experience.. even in Switzerland direct democracy is only applied seldomly, for certain decisions, and carefully.
Otherwise a lot of democracies would suddenly have the death penalty back, a lot more nationalism/chauvinism, and do their way of 'Brexit' :haha:
Will read this again thoroughly this evening, thanks again Platapus!
Aktungbby
10-19-16, 04:32 AM
Someone mentioned Jesse Ventura. There is the Jesse factor too; people may vote Trump to spite the establishment just as my late Dad did. He was surprised the next morning to see that Jesse won. I was living in another state at the time. SOMEONE??!! aw jeeze! and I'm on your friends list too...:yeah:That's not exactly "Minnesota Nice" but here's an extra Aracept fer ya' good buddy: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=223132 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=223132) You betcha' BBY; we sixty-somethings gotta stick together! :O:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=2386208#post2386208 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=2386208#post2386208) The Jesse Ventura Effect. Finally, do not discount the electorate’s ability to be mischievous or underestimate how any millions fancy themselves as closet anarchists once they draw the curtain and are all alone in the voting booth. It’s one of the few places left in society where there are no security cameras, no listening devices, no spouses, no kids, no boss, no cops, there’s not even a friggin’ time limit. You can take as long as you need in there and no one can make you do anything. You can push the button and vote a straight party line, or you can write in Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck. There are no rules. And because of that, and the anger that so many have toward a broken political system, millions are going to vote for Trump not because they agree with him, not because they like his bigotry or ego, but just because they can. Just because it will upset the apple cart and make mommy and daddy mad. And in the same way like when you’re standing on the edge of Niagara Falls and your mind wonders for a moment what would that feel like to go over that thing, a lot of people are going to love being in the position of puppetmaster and plunking down for Trump just to see what that might look like. Remember back in the ‘90s when the people of Minnesota elected a professional wrestler as their governor? They didn’t do this because they’re stupid or thought that Jesse Ventura was some sort of statesman or political intellectual. They did so just because they could. Minnesota is one of the smartest states in the country. It is also filled with people who have a dark sense of humor:timeout: — and voting for Ventura was their version of a good practical joke on a sick political system. This is going to happen again with Trump. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_nice (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_nice) <:har:
SOMEONE??!! aw jeeze! and I'm on your friends list too...:yeah:That's not exactly "Minnesota Nice" but here's an extra Aracept fer ya' good buddy: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=223132 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=223132) You betcha' BBY; we sixty-somethings gotta stick together! :O:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=2386208#post2386208 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=2386208#post2386208) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_nice (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_nice) <:har:
Yeah, yeah, I just didn't want to mention you by name so you wouldn't be associated with my little semi 'off topic' post.
Just trying to protect you baby! LOL
Nice finds btw.
Mr Quatro
10-19-16, 11:55 AM
I wonder if Trump is a hypocrite:http://www.dictionary.com/browse/hypocrite
a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, especially a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.
He has pointed out that he thinks Hillary is on some kind of performance enhancing drug, but what about the second debate and his sniffles?
Could Donald himself be using cocaine?
Just a few more hours and we will see if he has the same sniffles :o
Platapus
10-19-16, 03:50 PM
Will read this again thoroughly this evening, thanks again Platapus!
you are most welcome. While I have a low tolerance for the political whining that goes on here and the other sites, When someone asks a legitimate question, it deserves a legitimate question.
If you have any other questions, please feel free to ask. Answering these types of questions is kinda my real life job.
you are most welcome. While I have a low tolerance for the political whining that goes on here and the other sites, When someone asks a legitimate question, it deserves a legitimate question.
If you have any other questions, please feel free to ask. Answering these types of questions is kinda my real life job.
I, who ain't American or have relatives living in USA(not what I'm aware of) found it very interesting to read.
Markus
Mr Quatro
10-19-16, 04:00 PM
I blew this poll ... the Las Vegas debate is today October 19th just four more hours.
I'll try better next time ... but I notice a lot more interest in the election lately.
How about you?
u crank
10-19-16, 04:53 PM
... but I notice a lot more interest in the election lately.
How about you?
Well.... entertainment value is off the scale.:D
I blew this poll ... the Las Vegas debate is today October 19th just four more hours.
I'll try better next time ... but I notice a lot more interest in the election lately.
How about you?I agree, and think it is because the results of this election can change so many things; from Immigration quotas from certain places in the World to the makeup of our Supreme Court (which will be changed for decades). Changes to NAFTA and the Trans-Pacific Partnership will affect employment.
The results of this election will be very interesting.
I guess that a lot of land will be for sale and cheap too; with half the country moving to Canada. The R's are leaving if Hillary wins and the D's are leaving if Trump wins - ha! Very interesting.
Remember folks, what happens in Vegas...
Won't stay in Vegas.... :dead:
Still, the place is used to it, I mean Vegas used to be a place for tourists to watch the nuclear tests out on the flats after all. :hmmm:
Torplexed
10-19-16, 08:04 PM
Still, the place is used to it, I mean Vegas used to be a place for tourists to watch the nuclear tests out on the flats after all. :hmmm:
The Donald blows his top.
http://cdn.theatlantic.com/newsroom/img/posts/2014/08/9600b/79da82669.jpg
The Donald blows his top.
http://cdn.theatlantic.com/newsroom/img/posts/2014/08/9600b/79da82669.jpg
A loud 'Snifffffffffffffffffff!' rumbles across the plains.
Torplexed
10-19-16, 08:27 PM
I'm liking the format better this time. Discussing a topic and digging in for a few minutes on specifics.
Yeah, here comes the sniffing thing again. He couldn't hold it back for long.
Takeda Shingen
10-19-16, 08:34 PM
Wallace was doing pretty well for awhile, but now the two of them are just running him over. A pity because he was pretty even-handed.
Torplexed
10-19-16, 08:38 PM
Wallace was doing pretty well for awhile, but now the two of them are just running him over. A pity because he was pretty even-handed.
Yeah...Wallace is good.
Is it me or is Donald coming out as pro-nuclear proliferation?
For a man who is the current candidate from a party of people who often poke fun at the idea of being triggered by something...it really doesn't take much to trigger Trump does it?
Torplexed
10-19-16, 08:43 PM
For a man who is the current candidate from a party of people who often poke fun at the idea of being triggered by something...it really doesn't take much to trigger Trump does it?
They don't call him Trumpelthinskin for nothing. :D
"Let me translate that for you if I can."
"You can't."
Well, finally Trump speaks some truth.
Buddahaid
10-19-16, 08:45 PM
He won't conform to the format. Even now he ignores the question he's to answer and harps on over the last one. It is clear to me who is the adult at this debate and who acts the spoiled brat. Too bad I don't trust either of them to walk my dog.
Takeda Shingen
10-19-16, 08:47 PM
He won't conform to the format. Even now he ignores the question he's to answer and harps on over the last one. It is clear to me who is the adult at this debate and who acts the spoiled brat. Too bad I don't trust either of them to walk my dog.
That's just the rub. Clinton isn't going to win because she's a desirable candidate. She's going to win because the alternative is Trump.
Torplexed
10-19-16, 08:50 PM
He won't conform to the format. Even now he ignores the question he's to answer and harps on over the last one. It is clear to me who is the adult at this debate and who acts the spoiled brat.
As Russell Wilson says, "the separation is in the preparation". And it's showing again.
We cut now to live footage of the Republican Party...
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view2/4806275/down-in-flames-o.gif
Takeda Shingen
10-19-16, 09:04 PM
Okay, so both of your foundations suck. Let's move on.
Torplexed
10-19-16, 09:11 PM
Donald refuses to say that he will accept the result of the election. Great. That bodes well for the future. :-?
Donald refuses to say that he will accept the result of the election. Great. That bodes well for the future. :-?
Get out of America now, while you still can. :yep:
Torplexed
10-19-16, 09:16 PM
Get out of America now, while you still can. :yep:
A mere 140 miles away, but it might as well be a thousand. :O:
http://images.memes.com/meme/938925
Takeda Shingen
10-19-16, 09:18 PM
What is with the rambling non-answer from Trump? Not just tonight, but every time he opens his mouth. How did he deal in big-time real estate for most of his adult life? A lot of what one does there is convince people who don't want your structure built to allow you to have your structure built. He must have had others do the sell for him.
Torplexed
10-19-16, 09:23 PM
What is with the rambling non-answer from Trump? Not just tonight, but every time he opens his mouth. How did he deal in big-time real estate for most of his adult life? A lot of what one does there is convince people who don't want your structure built to allow you to have your structure built. He must have had others do the sell for him.
Yeah, he's literally a caricature of a caricature of himself at this point. Alec Baldwin cannot possibly parody this. Trump is parodying him. She's beating him like a defenseless orange.
Takeda Shingen
10-19-16, 09:27 PM
Yeah, he's literally a caricature of a caricature of himself at this point. Alec Baldwin cannot possibly parody this. Trump is parodying him. She's beating him like a defenseless orange.
No kidding. You know what is going to come out before he says it.
Moderator: Question about _______.
Trump: We're going to have/make/do tremendous ______. It will be tremendous.
Wallace is trying to throw Trump a life-raft but Trump is throwing them back. It's painful to watch. I bet someone will say that this was rigged in favour of Hillary though, guarantee it.
Torplexed
10-19-16, 09:35 PM
No kidding. You know what is going to come out before he says it.
Moderator: Question about _______.
Trump: We're going to have/make/do tremendous ______. It will be tremendous.
Kinda cringe worthy. Of the three debates this comes across as Trump's poorest performance so far. He doesn't seem to improve with experience in a 2-person debate format. On the other hand, Clinton is playing an incredibly dull, but safe defensive style that forces Trump to either accept defeat or take risks, which he tends to screw up.
People give Trump the rope, it's he that hangs himself with it, and then blames everyone for giving him the rope.
Of course, everyone is going to focus on the "I won't confirm if I will accept the result" now, would it really have hurt him to say "I will"?
Obviously he's never heard the saying that "No-one likes a sore loser."
Takeda Shingen
10-19-16, 09:41 PM
Wallace is trying to throw Trump a life-raft but Trump is throwing them back. It's painful to watch. I bet someone will say that this was rigged in favour of Hillary though, guarantee it.
It would appear that Trump's greatest adversary was, once again, Trump.
Kinda cringe worthy. Of the three debates this comes across as Trump's poorest performance so far. He doesn't seem to improve with experience in a 2-person debate format. On the other hand, Clinton is playing an incredibly dull, but safe defensive style that forces Trump to either accept defeat or take risks, which he tends to screw up.
I kind of figured that this was going to happen. This debate was going to be the most formal of the three, and Trump is not particularly good at conveying ideas or speaking publicly. It went down how I thought it would.
Buddahaid
10-19-16, 09:43 PM
All he would need to do is show some respect for anything. Answer the debate questions for cripes sake instead of attacking the last thing Hillary said from the last question. He should be wearing a Little Lord Fauntleroy suit!
https://s2.yimg.com/ls/img/200/7010b3e6-f345-30dd-8eeb-59032b3fa46d
Torplexed
10-19-16, 09:44 PM
People give Trump the rope, it's he that hangs himself with it, and then blames everyone for giving him the rope.
Of course, everyone is going to focus on the "I won't confirm if I will accept the result" now, would it really have hurt him to say "I will"?
Obviously he's never heard the saying that "No-one likes a sore loser."
Some of the networks here are aghast at his not accepting the election results comment.
Will he still not accept if he wins? :)
It would appear that Trump's greatest adversary was, once again, Trump.
Yup, and when he gets brought up on his tax dodging scams, he blames everyone else, as always.
"You did this bad thing."
"Yeah? Well, you didn't stop me, so it's your fault."
"But...you didn't have to..."
"Your fault!"
Mr Quatro
10-19-16, 09:45 PM
That's just the rub. Clinton isn't going to win because she's a desirable candidate. She's going to win because the alternative is Trump.
Quote of the month award :up:
Torplexed
10-19-16, 09:51 PM
Hillary is still working the room and the Donald has already left the building and driven off.
My final impression: Trump looks like he went through the most unpleasant experience of his life.
http://i.imgur.com/76h08zM.png
Buddahaid
10-19-16, 09:55 PM
Well it was rigged. There were real questions asked that had to be answered.
If he calls for revolution again maybe he should be arrested.
If he calls for revolution again maybe he should be arrested.
God, could you imagine how well that would go down with the Alt-Right and the Trumpists? :doh:
On a lighter note though, 'Bad Hombres', that's going to be on t-shirts before the night is out. :haha: Oh, and 'Nasty Woman' for the ladies out there.
Takeda Shingen
10-19-16, 10:07 PM
On a lighter note though, 'Bad Hombres', that's going to be on t-shirts before the night is out. :haha: Oh, and 'Nasty Woman' for the ladies out there.
Trump is likely to face a lot of very angry Hispanics starting tomorrow morning.
Torplexed
10-19-16, 10:15 PM
As to Trump's comment on rejecting the American Tradition of Peaceful Transfer Of Power. Last time somebody rejected the peaceful transfer of power was the South after the election of Lincoln in 1860. It didn't end well.
To think the party of Lincoln has come to this. :(
http://img.ezinemark.com/imagemanager2/files/30002494/2010/05/abraham-lincoln.jpg
Buddahaid
10-19-16, 10:19 PM
Oil that is, bad Hombres, nasty women... Come an' listen to a story 'bout a man named Don...
You know, the old mythical bird of the Phoenix had to burn before it was reborn. Perhaps, just perhaps, if the GOP is burnt enough it might just be able to rebuild itself better and stronger than before, it might take more than one term, it probably will, but from the ashes of this election it might just rise again.
If it wants to.
Mr Quatro
10-19-16, 10:25 PM
The bad news is that we had to watch them go at it three (3) rounds in three (3) debates. :down:
The good news is that we will never have to see them again together on the same stage :up:
Torplexed
10-19-16, 10:28 PM
Oil that is, bad Hombres, nasty women... Come an' listen to a story 'bout a man named Don...
A fun tweet by George Takei of Mr. Sulu fame--
I hear the men and women's bathrooms in Trump Tower are being relabeled "Bad Hombres" and "Nasty Women."
Takeda Shingen
10-19-16, 10:32 PM
A fun tweet by George Takei of Mr. Sulu fame--
I hear the men and women's bathrooms in Trump Tower are being relabeled "Bad Hombres" and "Nasty Women."
George Takei is hilarious. A great sense of humor, even about himself.
Takeda Shingen
10-19-16, 11:08 PM
On a lighter note though, 'Bad Hombres', that's going to be on t-shirts before the night is out. :haha: Oh, and 'Nasty Woman' for the ladies out there.
See? Your Brexit has nothing on the craziness of our presidential election. Could you imagine Boris going on about "bad hombres" like he's been binge watching Longmire? This stuff is priceless.
em2nought
10-19-16, 11:35 PM
You know, the old mythical bird of the Phoenix had to burn before it was reborn. Perhaps, just perhaps, if the GOP is burnt enough it might just be able to rebuild itself better and stronger than before, it might take more than one term, it probably will, but from the ashes of this election it might just rise again.
If it wants to.
Not likely since a vast majority of Republican voters are now here https://s3-media2.fl.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/asiNTvyUATQJZUP5zJvhkw/348s.jpg
some of them voting democrat for the first time in their after life. :03:
Buddahaid
10-20-16, 01:30 AM
Of course. That explains it all. It can't have anything to do with Trumps ego being so high you can't get over it, so low you can't get under it, so wide you can't get around it.....
Not likely since a vast majority of Republican voters are now here https://s3-media2.fl.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/asiNTvyUATQJZUP5zJvhkw/348s.jpg
some of them voting democrat for the first time in their after life. :03:
Of course. That explains it all. It can't have anything to do with Trumps ego being so high you can't get over it, so low you can't get under it, so wide you can't get around it.....
I dunno, we had Hillary defending Ronnie last night so anything is possible now...and quite frankly in this election I wouldn't blame dead Republicans for voting Democrat...I think most of them probably would.
A good summary from Vox:
http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/10/19/13322592/third-presidential-debate-highlights-trump-clinton-2016
A good summary from Vox:
http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/10/19/13322592/third-presidential-debate-highlights-trump-clinton-2016
Vox? Why not go direct to the DNC? It'd probably be less biased!
Vox? Why not go direct to the DNC? It'd probably be less biased!
Don't worry, there'll be Trump media soon for the other side. :yeah:
Jimbuna
10-20-16, 07:23 AM
My final impression: Trump looks like he went through the most unpleasant experience of his life.
Mine too :yep:
AVGWarhawk
10-20-16, 08:25 AM
"There is some bad hombre' out there." The Donald.
It is my belief that we, as a country that has lost it identity, is totally screwed no matter who gets sits in the White House for the next 4 years.
"There is some bad hombre' out there." The Donald.
It is my belief that we, as a country that has lost it identity, is totally screwed no matter who gets sits in the White House for the next 4 years.
Your comment reminded me of this American news paper editor who said to the Danish Journalist
That We can't provide better candidate than the two-show clearly USA is going downhill
Therefore if this was a all time low election and USA is going downhill, then the next Presidential election would be even worse
Markus
Trump has said that he will accept the result of the presidential election...
...if he wins.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-37722434
:/\\!!
Mr Quatro
10-20-16, 12:27 PM
Another Donald Trump tweet ... He couldn't win class president with his record of tweets :hmmm:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-clinton-debate-questions_us_5808de40e4b0dd54ce38996f?section=
Donald J. Trump ✔ @realDonaldTrump
Why didn't Hillary Clinton announce that she was inappropriately given the debate questions -
she secretly used them! Crooked Hillary.
Although the GOP nominee didn’t specify which debate he was referring to, the timing of the tweet suggested he was speaking about Wednesday’s debate at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas.
The event was moderated by Fox News host Chris Wallace. The prospect of the conservative network “rigging” the debate in Clinton’s favor is laughable. Wallace was widely praised for his fine job of focusing on the issues, and he pressed both candidates equally.
Trump’s accusation is par for the course for the New York businessman, who often makes wild claims and engages in conspiracy theories without offering any evidence. Most recently, he has taken to claiming the election is rigged due to voter fraud.
His fear of a rigged debate seems to stem from a hacked WikiLeaks email that suggested that Donna Brazile, the interim chair of the Democratic National Committee, earlier this year shared the text of a proposed question with Clinton ahead of a CNN town hall event featuring her primary opponent, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.).
Takeda Shingen
10-20-16, 01:18 PM
Another Donald Trump tweet ... He couldn't win class president with his record of tweets :hmmm:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-clinton-debate-questions_us_5808de40e4b0dd54ce38996f?section=
You've got to be kidding me.
EDIT: Upon following the links it would seem that you are indeed not kidding. How did this man amount to anything in life when he clearly has not matured emotionally since 5th grade?
AVGWarhawk
10-20-16, 01:57 PM
Trump has said that he will accept the result of the presidential election...
...if he wins.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-37722434
:/\\!!
The hits just keep coming in!!!! :har:
You've got to be kidding me.
EDIT: Upon following the links it would seem that you are indeed not kidding. How did this man amount to anything in life when he clearly has not matured emotionally since 5th grade?
It's funny, I've heard theories that periodically someone tries to take his phone away to stop him tweeting but he always seems to get it back or just get a new one. They really should have tried to fix that, but it goes to show that the professionals, the people who know how a campaign should be run are not the people in control of Trump and his message. :haha:
As most of you know by know I'm nor Trump or Clinton supporter
I was astonished by the way Trump got the hold of may Americans by saying things they liked to hear.
Now today I'm astonished in another direction-how or where did he loose it?
Markus
Takeda Shingen
10-20-16, 02:07 PM
It's funny, I've heard theories that periodically someone tries to take his phone away to stop him tweeting but he always seems to get it back or just get a new one. They really should have tried to fix that, but it goes to show that the professionals, the people who know how a campaign should be run are not the people in control of Trump and his message. :haha:
I can just picture the argument among the campaign staff over who's turn it was to watch Donald.
Don't worry, there'll be Trump media soon for the other side. :yeah:
And you'll still be quoting the dem media... :salute:
Rockin Robbins
10-20-16, 03:12 PM
Personally, I put no weight behind the debate at all and do not use debates to determine how I vote. We're stuck in a process that functions to pick people who are not fitted to be President. We can see that with both parties.
I like democracy as a theory, but in practice it devolves into insanity, where the skills necessary to get elected are not the skills necessary to govern. Therefore, the very election process works against the best interest of the country.
We got much better candidates from the bad old days of the smoke filled rooms and under the table deals. I don't know exactly why that is true, but experience has taught that our present methods need to be changed.
What earns the nomination needs to be the skills needed to lead the country. Now, earning the nomination just about guarantees the failure of the President. Obama and GW Bush both prove that. Pushed by opposing groups of people, their presidencies accomplished the same: exceptional mediocrity. No matter who wins, we're repeating the debacle.
And you'll still be quoting the dem media... :salute:
Well it's the only media out there that's not delving deep into Alex Jones territory. :03:
Nippelspanner
10-20-16, 04:26 PM
Well it's the only media out there that's not delving deep into Alex Jones territory. :03:
For those who don't know that lovely person...
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Alex_Jones
Jimbuna
10-21-16, 06:30 AM
Trump is his own biggest enemy. Hillary must be his biggest supporter seeing as how his antics will most probably put her in the Oval Office.
I don't believe Trump is stupid enough not to realise this so what are his true motives?
I don't believe Trump is stupid enough not to realise this so what are his true motives?I honestly think he is delusional enough to not realise that.
For those who don't know that lovely person...
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Alex_Jones
Never heard of him. He must be big in Europe like David Hasslehof.
Never heard of him. He must be big in Europe like David Hasslehof.
You don't hassle the hof. :yep:
Nippelspanner
10-21-16, 07:14 AM
Never heard of him. He must be big in Europe like David Hasslehof.
Him being a right-wing conspiracy theorist nut case ("durkin urr gurns" n' all that), he's actually very big in your country, August.
Also, it's Hasselhoff. Show some respect!
AVGWarhawk
10-21-16, 07:45 AM
Trump is his own biggest enemy. Hillary must be his biggest supporter seeing as how his antics will most probably put her in the Oval Office.
I don't believe Trump is stupid enough not to realise this so what are his true motives?
Trumps antics are void of political correctness. Hillary will not say anything that might remotely offend anyone....except in emails as we have seen from the wikileaks. It is very calculating. Of all the antics Trumps drums up every minute of every day has proved to gain a lot of support. A lot of Americans are simply fed up. Specifically with enlightenment of emails that prove Clinton is in it for herself and many back room dealings for decades. There is no sense of "nation" as the smiling Hillary likes to paint.
Him being a right-wing conspiracy theorist nut case ("durkin urr gurns" n' all that), he's actually very big in your country, August.
Yeah well I live in a big country. What's big to you Europeans is not necessarily that big to us. Kinda like Hasselhof...
Nippelspanner
10-21-16, 08:53 AM
Yeah well I live in a big country. What's big to you Europeans is not necessarily that big to us. Kinda like Hasselhof...
http://replygif.net/i/114.gif
pic
It's fair, it's fair, Austrians tend to do better in America after all.
Hottentot
10-21-16, 12:12 PM
[Facepalm pic]
These discussions would become much more meaningful if someone finally told August that Europe is not a country.
These discussions would become much more meaningful if someone finally told August that Europe is not a country.We're not a country? :doh:
(Welcome back, hottentonator)
We're not a country? :doh:
(Welcome back, hottentonator)
Even though some EU-politicians have such a dream
(sorry for this little derailing)
Markus
These discussions would become much more meaningful if someone finally told August that Europe is not a country.
That's not what Uncle Nigel told me... :O: :haha:
These discussions would become much more meaningful if someone finally told August that Europe is not a country.
Right, says the guy whose country has surrendered it's sovereignty to the European Union.
My country, the Commonwealth of Massachusetts is the 6th star from the left, top row:
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSPw3_3NYeKBjNXofr9pNaf2m7dvXGt1 4SGxyE9jNSKc7Tnx97Gyg
Which star is Finlands?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/41/Old_EU_flag_5.gif/150px-Old_EU_flag_5.gif
For the first 50 or so years US states acted like they were still their own countries as well. Then some tried to leave the Union (there's that word again) and we all know how that worked out...
So, the United States is a bad thing? :hmmm:
@August: For your stupidity, I think you should be shot.
(really, shot.)
You are a ****ing idiot.
Platapus
10-21-16, 01:43 PM
@August: For your stupidity, I think you should be shot.
(really, shot.)
You are a ****ing idiot.
Yikes! that's a bit much. :nope:
Yikes! that's a bit much. :nope:
Considering he just slapped the faces of every dead veteran who fought for independent Finland...
What he deserves. And he gets what he wants, I go in the brig and he gets to post.
Not the first time he gets away with ****.
Not the first one from August.
Nippelspanner
10-21-16, 01:55 PM
Yikes! that's a bit much. :nope:
Depends on the number of bullets, maybe?
Nippelspanner
10-21-16, 02:02 PM
Right, says the guy whose country has surrendered it's sovereignty to the European Union.
My country, the Commonwealth of Massachusetts is the 6th star from the left, top row:
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSPw3_3NYeKBjNXofr9pNaf2m7dvXGt1 4SGxyE9jNSKc7Tnx97Gyg
Which star is Finlands?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/41/Old_EU_flag_5.gif/150px-Old_EU_flag_5.gif
None.
Because the stars don't represent a country, nor a number of countries, they represent values and ideals.
But how would you know. :roll:
Betonov
10-21-16, 02:44 PM
I have been informed by my Dutch and English allies, that a certain Finn member I'm quite fond of was brigged for finally snaping under the mass of the malarkey that has been accumulated on this forum of late.
It was easy to ignore Neals defence of Skybird, because charity to the mentally challenged is noble.
But I just had to come out of self imposed banishment to say what's been on my mind and support Dowly.
This site is going to hell in a maglev handbasket due to a simple reason that certain members are allowed to smear crap all over the forum and get away with it becasue they call it excrement, and then other members get briged for calling it like it is: BULL**** !!!!
That's why members leave this place. Because the *******s are allowed to paint the site brown and we have our hands tied because ''themz da rulz''
Crap was never and never will be family friendly, even if you box it in wrapping paper with flowers and happy bears.
And Dowly, I'll be seeing you in the brig shortly. I'll be bringing vodka and Sasha Grey :up:
To be honest it was rather a daft comparison to make, I mean Mass was on the Union side anyway so it didn't surrender its powers to Washington in any real form because there was no fight, therefore there was no surrender.
The Southern states, perhaps the argument could be made, and indeed would be made by anyone from them that their independence was stripped of them by the Yankees and they were subjugated by Washington.
Furthermore, by indicating that the European Union is a bad thing, by using the terminology of 'surrendering its sovereignty' (which is the kind of argument used by our old friend the Brexiters, and look how well that particular project is turning out) then you make the argument that the United States of America is the forced surrenderance of sovereignty by the individual states to Washington and thus the solution is the dissolution of the United States back into individual states...
Now, let me tell you as a European how well that goes, because we have a long and varied history of making the most out of everything that divides us and using it as an excellent excuse to brutally murder each other. To the point that most of the deaths by war on this planet are very likely concentrated in Europe. So, anything that unifies nations and prevents conflict between them is good in my opinion, because the alternative was something we put to bed in 1945 (1999 if you count the Balkans as European) and I pray we never have to visit again.
Can you, hand on heart, say that if the US dissolved tomorrow, that eventually individual states would start fighting each other? Some would form alliances, with other states or with foreign powers and other nations would be more than happy to take advantage of this weakness. I imagine lots of Little Green Men and a sudden influx of Russian made firearms would begin appearing on the west and east coasts.
Besides, what is the strength of Massachusetts compared to the strength of the United States? Pretty damn pitiful really, and the same applies to any individual nation within the EU, alone we are weak, together we are strong, or to quote an American:
"We must, indeed, all hang together or most assuredly, we shall all hang seperately."
So, no, Finland didn't surrender its sovereignty, it joined a greater sovereignty, a stronger sovereignty. I just wish that more people in Europe could see it that way, rather than all this xenophobia and scaremongering that's going on instead. :hmmm:
Schroeder
10-21-16, 03:13 PM
Subsim GT is taking a route for the worse. A lot of respect has gone down the drain and justified so in some cases IMHO. It's sad to see good members leaving because of that but I also don't have a proper solution to that problem.:(
I can only appeal to the members to stay fair to one another and to put people who grind their gears on the ignore list or ignore them manually. We will never all agree on everything and I often find myself typing a response to some of the nonsense I sometimes read here but then I press the x on the top right corner because it's just not worth it.
Onkel Neal
10-21-16, 03:45 PM
Subsim GT is taking a route for the worse. A lot of respect has gone down the drain and justified so in some cases IMHO. It's sad to see good members leaving because of that but I also don't have a proper solution to that problem.:(
I can only appeal to the members to stay fair to one another and to put people who grind their gears on the ignore list or ignore them manually. We will never all agree on everything and I often find myself typing a response to some of the nonsense I sometimes read here but then I press the x on the top right corner because it's just not worth it.
People being rude in a passive/aggressive way is not unusual on the internet, nor is it avoidable here. But there are limits. You have the right idea; rebut their point of view or ignore them, but hate speech is not going to fly here, even by people who think they are the sole occupants of the moral high ground.
What about incitement to hatred? :hmmm:
Onkel Neal
10-21-16, 04:28 PM
I'm sure there's some of that, if there's a clear way to distinguish that between opinion, snark, sarcasm, etc , let us know.
Onkel Neal
10-21-16, 04:35 PM
and, by all means, if you honestly feel someone is posting incitement to hatred, report it, we will attempt to tamp it out. No matter what one's views or opinions, I do not want to see a forum with hatred and bullying.
I'm sure there's some of that, if there's a clear way to distinguish that between opinion, snark, sarcasm, etc , let us know.
I would say that the line is where a person goes from stating that something is their opinion, to stating that it should be other peoples opinion and that they are naive or stupid if they don't think that way.
That would be a good place to start anyway.
Rockstar
10-21-16, 05:04 PM
You're kidding me words inciting someone to become hateful? So much so that simple words would cause them rise up and shoot another or wish them dead? Really? Here on the GT? Shame on them, they have weak will.
Guess some should have followed Skybird's example
Guess some should have followed Skybird's example
Which one? :hmmm:
Rockstar
10-21-16, 05:23 PM
Where he said when people would bust his balls over things he wrote and emotions ran high and accusations would fly. Instead of getting angry throwing a tantrum and wishing you all dead he learned to step away. I see strength of character in that
HunterICX
10-21-16, 05:24 PM
My country, the Commonwealth of Massachusetts is the 6th star from the left, top row:
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSPw3_3NYeKBjNXofr9pNaf2m7dvXGt1 4SGxyE9jNSKc7Tnx97Gyg
You mean state.
Which star is Finlands?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/41/Old_EU_flag_5.gif/150px-Old_EU_flag_5.gif
First that's not the EU flag, that's an rejected design that has never been officialy adapted.
Second the 12 Stars on the EU flag do NOT represent the amount of member states.
While between '86 to '94 we happen to have had 12 members at that time the stars on the EU flag however never did represent the amount of memeber states though it was considered.
Third while Finland is a member of the EU it's still a sovereign country and NOT a state of the EU.
Where he said when people would bust his balls over things he wrote and emotions ran high and accusations would fly. Instead of getting angry throwing a tantrum and wishing you all dead he learned to step away. I see strength of character in that
I guess that's one way of doing it...alternatively there's also the path that if you know that what you're going to write is going to be received negatively in the main then why write it? :hmmm:
Rockstar
10-21-16, 05:43 PM
We cant please everyone all of the time man, just the way things are in life.
We all have our opinions and the internet has removed boundaries and borders giving us an outlet to share them with others. And low and behold whaddya know we soon learn not everyone in this world thinks like me, has the same ideals, loyalties, sees humor in things as me, or views security and threats the same as me. Of course when differences are exposed, tempers will sometimes flare, patience runs dry, accusations are made and bridges burned. Little children take their ball and go home or unfortunetly in the case above threaten anothers life.
In my opinion its evidence a world without borders will not work anytime soon.
In my opinion its evidence a world without borders will not work anytime soon.
True that, but we can still try to work towards one anyway, Rome wasn't built in a day after all. :yep:
Rockstar
10-21-16, 06:18 PM
Maybe we are the generation meant to illustrate the finer examples of what NOT to do. So that others might learn from it :D
Maybe we are of the generation which is bound to illustrate the finer examples of what NOT to do. So that others might learn from it :D
:har: :yeah: That's the most hopeful thought I've had for this era, well done! :up:
Rockstar
10-21-16, 06:26 PM
I guess that's one way of doing it...alternatively there's also the path that if you know that what you're going to write is going to be received negatively in the main then why write it? :hmmm:
I got no answers other than its in our nature, some however (myself included) can as we grow old just become crotchety old men or simply lose control of that thing we call common decency.
You mean state.
No I meant commonwealth. That's the name. The Commonwealth of Massachusetts.
First that's not the EU flag, that's an rejected design that has never been officialy adapted.
Really? Yet your leaders use it, your diplomats use it, it's displayed in your Parliament building, even the money you use displays this rejected design.
Looks pretty official to me.
http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq193/rdsterling/41313fa2-6959-4d7d-9917-d918a5526d98_zps2vuhj7zo.jpg
Second the 12 Stars on the EU flag do NOT represent the amount of member states.
While between '86 to '94 we happen to have had 12 members at that time the stars on the EU flag however never did represent the amount of memeber states though it was considered.Our original flag had 13 stars but we decided to add stars as we added states. It made for some awkward configurations:
http://agonistica.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/us-flags-1.png
Third while Finland is a member of the EU it's still a sovereign country and NOT a state of the EU.I'm sure some of my fellow citizens from the southern states would advise you to get out while you still can or is it already too late?
Buddahaid
10-21-16, 07:18 PM
https://31.media.tumblr.com/bc4cc1e21f67ad51dcf9679292c45db5/tumblr_mz3v1xG71t1rdfgw4o1_250.gif
What was this thread about?
Rockstar
10-21-16, 07:20 PM
Here our first lesson for the future generation: Knowing when to quit. :yep:
Here our first lesson for the future generation: Knowing when to quit. :yep:
Well you can complain about it or you can post something to bring the discussion back on track. :yep:
HunterICX
10-21-16, 07:35 PM
No I meant commonwealth. That's the name. The Commonwealth of Massachusetts.
Which is a state, not a country as you put it ''My country, the Commonwealth of Massachusetts is the 6th star from the left, top row:''
The Commonwealth of Massachusetts, is the most populous state in the New England region of the northeastern United States.or I misinterpreted what you where trying to say.
Really? Yet your leaders use it, your diplomats use it, it's displayed in your Parliament building, even the money you use displays this rejected design.
Looks pretty official to me.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/41/Old_EU_flag_5.gif/150px-Old_EU_flag_5.gif
Try counting the stars of the flag you posted, there's 15 stars on that which isn't the flag officialy used by the EU council which is the one that has 12 stars. The 15 star is a rejected design of the EU flag never oficially used.
I'm sure some of my fellow citizens from the southern states would advise you to get out while you still can or is it already too late?See Brexit.
---
Here our first lesson for the future generation: Knowing when to quit. :yep:
Good luck with that here on Subsim, from my experience no one really knows when to quit..me included at times.
See Brexit.
No...please...don't.
http://uk.businessinsider.com/brexit-vote-regret-leave-margin-victory-2016-10
http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2016/10/daily-chart-6
Buddahaid
10-21-16, 07:50 PM
Here our first lesson for the future generation: Knowing when to quit. :yep:
Knowing when to quit is exactly what Trump doesn't have a clue about and it showed in this debate. I don't mean quit his bid for the presidency, but think on your blasted feet and give the current question an answer instead of trying to drive home further jabs at Hillary from the previous question.
He treats this election like a low class/no class K-mart trailer trash fight over stretch pants discounted in aisle five. I'm all for shaking up the status quo, question authority, bring in some fresh air, etc., but he is just a trash talking clown when push comes to shove and I can't believe people support such despicable behavior for a president.:o
I mean, I'll give the guy credit, he managed to stay on track for 30 minutes before the sniffing gear engaged and he just went straight off the rails.
You can almost see the campaign crew sitting around their tellies, slowly rising up off their seats in excitement and then "You're the puppet!" happened and they were all:
http://www.gifbin.com/bin/062010/1275389857_naked-gun-facepalm.gif
HunterICX
10-21-16, 08:01 PM
^
I try to limit my dose of Trump for the sake of sparing me the headache but then again when I see and hear Hillary I must do my outmost best not to vomit.
Torplexed
10-21-16, 08:08 PM
He treats this election like a low class/no class K-mart trailer trash fight over stretch pants discounted in aisle five.
That makes for a vivid mental image. :D
My biggest concern about Trump has always been his gullibility. He seems to buy into any conspiracy theory or tweet he hears that confirms his beliefs. For a seasoned businessman he sure has a lousy bunkum detector. He doesn't gravitate toward the brightest people on any given topic, and he doesn't much care about finding the best information.
Worse, verifying the information he receives just isn't a great passion for Trump. He believes the information he wants to believe, and he's not particularly interested in learning that he was wrong on any particular subject.
Onkel Neal
10-21-16, 08:17 PM
I mean, I'll give the guy credit, he managed to stay on track for 30 minutes before the sniffing gear engaged and he just went straight off the rails.
You can almost see the campaign crew sitting around their tellies, slowly rising up off their seats in excitement and then "You're the puppet!" happened and they were all:
http://www.gifbin.com/bin/062010/1275389857_naked-gun-facepalm.gif
Yep, she may be a chronic duplicitous hack, but she's a lot smarter than him.
Worthy of a galactic facepalm.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=1045&pictureid=9246
He treats this election like a low class/no class K-mart trailer trash fight over stretch pants discounted in aisle five. I'm all for shaking up the status quo, question authority, bring in some fresh air, etc., but he is just a trash talking clown when push comes to shove and I can't believe people support such despicable behavior for a president.:o
Bingo!
Which is a state, not a country as you put it ''My country, the Commonwealth of Massachusetts is the 6th star from the left, top row:''
or I misinterpreted what you where trying to say.
What is a state but a country that has surrendered it's autonomy to a larger entity? Our commonwealth has its own legislative branch, its own exec.utive, its own judiciary, it's own flag and if the USA were to be dissolved it would become an independent nation
Try counting the stars of the flag you posted, there's 15 stars on that which isn't the flag officialy used by the EU council which is the one that has 12 stars. The 15 star is a rejected design of the EU flag never oficially used.Well excuuuuse me! It is very similar and the only reasonably sized image I saw when I googled "EU flag". The point is European "states" still have moved toward becoming a country in many ways, so you should understand if we Americans start treating you as if the assimilation were complete.
See Brexit.The Brits are smart to get out now while they still can. Like I said a bunch of US states thought they could back out and found out the hard way that they were wrong.
Good luck with that here on Subsim, from my experience no one really knows when to quit..me included at times.We're all here to shoot the breeze. Why would we want to quit?
The Brits are smart to get out now while they still can.
Tell that to the pound.
So, basically, what you're saying here is that the US would be a lot better if each individual state was its own country with its own military? :hmmm:
Reminds me of someone else here who argued that countries should be abolished down to the individual town and city state. Sure, on paper that might seem alright, but history doesn't work that way.
Tell that to the pound.
So, basically, what you're saying here is that the US would be a lot better if each individual state was its own country with its own military? :hmmm:
No i'm saying that there are real downsides to surrendering ones independence. Some benefits as well but liberty once given away is difficult to get back.
Onkel Neal
10-22-16, 07:22 AM
We're all here to shoot the breeze. Why would we want to quit?
Mebbe I'm wrong, but I think he meant, when to quit an argument, or, when to quit trying to win an argument. Some people cannot let it go, they have to have the last word, or go nuclear in the effort.
Mebbe I'm wrong, but I think he meant, when to quit an argument, or, when to quit trying to win an argument. Some people cannot let it go, they have to have the last word, or go nuclear in the effort.
Neal I think part of the problem is that there are people here who are looking to argue and get upset about something and they'll seize upon any comment whether it was intended with rancor or not. Personally i'm just here to relax and to blow off steam and I intend to continue doing so (with your continued permission) in spite of getting insults and even death threats (I hope you brig him for a long time over that) from touchy foreigners who think they can badmouth our country and it's people with impunity but bristle whenever they think someone might be doing the same to them.
em2nought
10-22-16, 12:32 PM
That makes for a vivid mental image. :D
My biggest concern about Trump has always been his gullibility. He seems to buy into any conspiracy theory or tweet he hears that confirms his beliefs. For a seasoned businessman he sure has a lousy bunkum detector. He doesn't gravitate toward the brightest people on any given topic, and he doesn't much care about finding the best information.
Worse, verifying the information he receives just isn't a great passion for Trump. He believes the information he wants to believe, and he's not particularly interested in learning that he was wrong on any particular subject.
Sounds like someone living in a world where the sources of information have seriously lost credibility. Elections can be rigged, and so can scientific data. I've learned to snopes everything, but I'm still not 100% sure some stuff still isn't BS. :doh:
Onkel Neal
10-22-16, 03:39 PM
Neal I think part of the problem is that there are people here who are looking to argue and get upset about something and they'll seize upon any comment whether it was intended with rancor or not. Personally i'm just here to relax and to blow off steam and I intend to continue doing so (with your continued permission) in spite of getting insults and even death threats (I hope you brig him for a long time over that) from touchy foreigners who think they can badmouth our country and it's people with impunity but bristle whenever they think someone might be doing the same to them.
Remember, when you say "foreigners", it means us, to them. For an international forum like SUBSIM Radio Room, there are no foreigners. Half of the registered members here are non-Americans.
.
Well, maybe Texans and then everyone else is a foreigner....
Schroeder
10-22-16, 06:30 PM
I think I'll take a break from Subsim.:salute:
I think I'll take a break from Subsim.:salute:
But Hillary hasn't won yet?
God help us if and when that happens, the server will crash if the Democrats get the the whole of the Hill. :haha:
Mr Quatro
10-22-16, 07:48 PM
This thread is not about the election ... it is just about the Presidential debate in Lad Vegas Wednesday night October 18th.
Just a poll of sorts ... mods can close it after the debate.
Okay with me Steve or Jim ... you can close this thread about the last debate now. It has run it's course and finished the race. :yep:
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