Bob Dylan - Nobel Prize for Literature

[MLF]

:Kaleun_Applaud:

Take me disappearing through the smoke rings of my mind
Down the foggy ruins of time
Far past the frozen leaves
The haunted frightened trees
Out to the windy bench
Far from the twisted reach of crazy sorrow
Yes, to dance beneath the diamond sky
With one hand waving free
Silhouetted by the sea
Circled by the circus sands
With all memory and fate
Driven deep beneath the waves
Let me forget about today until tomorrow.

Mr Tambourine Man 1965

Yes, and how many times must a man look up
Before he can see the sky?
Yes, and how many ears must one man have
Before he can hear people cry?
Yes, and how many deaths will it take 'till he knows
That too many people have died?
The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind
The answer is blowin' in the wind

Blowing in the Wind 1963

[Oberon]

In before people complain about the decision.


Anyway, my favourite:

Come gather 'round people
Wherever you roam
And admit that the waters
Around you have grown
And accept it that soon
You'll be drenched to the bone
If your time to you
Is worth savin'
Then you better start swimmin'
Or you'll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin'


Come writers and critics
Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won't come again
And don't speak too soon
For the wheel's still in spin
And there's no tellin' who
That it's namin'
For the loser now
Will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin'


Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway
Don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There's a battle outside ragin'
It'll soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'


Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is rapidly agin'
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'


As true today as it was back then.

[MLF]

In before people complain about the decision.



I studied his lyrics in English lessons at school in 1966.
Listened to PM tonight and Pam Ayres summed things up by saying that some of his lyrics (poems) gave comfort to kids in those days, for example:-

"I can see that your head
Has been twisted and fed
With worthless foam from the mouth
I can tell you are torn
Between stayin' and returnin'
Back to the South
You've been fooled into thinking
That the finishin' end is at hand
Yet there's no one to beat you
No one to defeat you
'Cept the thoughts of yourself feeling bad

I've heard you say many times
That you're better 'n no one
And no one is better 'n you
If you really believe that
You know you have
Nothing to win and nothing to lose
From fixtures and forces and friends
Your sorrow does stem
That hype you and type you
Making you feel
That you gotta be just like them."

To Ramona 1964

[Onkel Neal]

:Kaleun_Thumbs_Up:

[AndyJWest]

Thoroughly deserved. :Kaleun_Applaud:

[u crank]

No one is better. No one has had a wider influence and why did this take so long?

Congrats Mr. Zimmerman.

A few more examples of his brilliance...

"You walk into the room with your pencil in your hand
You see somebody naked and you say, "Who is that man?"
You try so hard but you don't understand
Just what you will say when you get home
Because something is happening here but you don't know what it is
Do you, Mr. Jones?"

Ballad Of A Thin Man

"At midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew
Come out and round up everyone that knows more than they do
Then they bring them to the factory where the heart-attack machine
Is strapped across their shoulders and then the kerosene
Is brought down from the castles by insurance men who go
Check to see that nobody is escaping to Desolation Row"

Desolation Row

"Darkness at the break of noon
Shadows even the silver spoon
The handmade blade, the child's balloon
Eclipses both the sun and moon
To understand you know too soon, there is no sense in trying"

It's Alright, Ma (I'm Only Bleeding)

[Platapus]

In before people complain about the decision.





Why would anyone complain about the decision? It is a private organization and they can award whom ever they want.

[Torplexed]

Hmmm. If Dylan can win a Nobel, it might be time to nominate Leonard Cohen. :hmmm:

[Oberon]

Why would anyone complain about the decision? It is a private organization and they can award whom ever they want.

I'm actually surprised that someone hasn't complained, like they usually do over who gets the peace prize. :hmmm:

[Sailor Steve]

I'm complaining! I'm offended that some peacenik hippy writing all those anti-war lyrics should get the Peace Prize! It's an affront to all...










Wait, whut?










:rock:

[Catfish]

Why would anyone complain about the decision? It is a private organization and they can award whom ever they want.

Because Dylan was and is 100-percent anti war, he demonstrated and still is against the Vietnam war, the US belligerent engagement in the middle East and against racism.
For right-wingers and "patriots" this is usually enough to throw with dirt.

[fumo30]

Complaining would be outrageous, because Bob is the worlds official goodguy and everyone's holy duty is to admire him. I wouldn't dare complaining the decision, cause after doing that, most propably no-one here ever gonna talk a word to me again.

..But there's a woman named Joni Mitchell, who allegedly said that "Everything about Bob is a deception" .
Does she know something about Bob we don't?:hmmm:

[Jimbuna]

I'm certainly not going to complain but to be totally honest, I'm not really all that interested.

I spent my youth listening to other musicians and songwriters in the main.

[Skybird]

You want a mud slinger? Well, I leave it to that I have nothing against Dylan and his texts, but I cannot see them to be of the literary quality deserving such a prestigious award. For the quality of that music he makes they are okay, sometimes even more than just that. But thats it for me. An above-average song writer - not more. That he became so influential, says more about the audience than about him.

On the other hand, the literature Nobel has been given to quite some questionable writers in the past as well, and imo already is as discredited as is the Peace Nobel as well. If Dylan can get this, than many others could get it as well.

BTW, the Nobel prize for literature was not founded by Alfred Nobel. The Swedish Riksbank took it upon them in the 50s I think to found it in the name of Nobel who then could not defend himself anymore. But hey, that is tradition in Sweden, the Peace Nobel is being hiacked for purposes Nobel had not founded it for, to. Most Peace Nobel prizes, the overwhelming majority, are not qualified by Nobel'S definition.

I personally think this award this year is as politicised and maybe abused as is the Peace Nobel. Many Nobels in the past years have been given not so much for achieved arms reductions, but as a hint that some Swedes think the laureate in the future should be successful in doing something in the future that they want to see being accomplished, may it be arms reduction, or women's rights, ecological things, and what else there was. Obama was the best example: getting the award at the beginning of his presidency already while he still ha not achieved anything - but everybody was hysteric about this holy figure of light and thought he would save the world as a result of the Nobel prize rewarded to him. Dylan's anti-war texts may have gotten him the reward this year while syria and Ukraine are on our mind, the conflict with Russia is obvious, and the war with IS and Muslim terrorism is raging on. Their quality maybe have less to do with it than fans may want to hear.

In other words: the literature Nobel, like the Peace Nobel and often the alchemy Nobel as well, gets used as kind of magic spell again.

Again, I have nothing against Dylan, I am no fan of his music style, but thats all there is about it. But I cannot see his song text offering that literary quality that they must be awared with such a prestigious award.

The Nobel awards for sciences are what they are, and I lack the knoweldge so that i cold judge their justfiication, it seems often the right guys get them indeed, mybe late, but still.. But the prizes for Peace, literature and very often: alchemy are bare of any credibility these days, i think. Generally speaking, not focussing on Dylan here.

Now you have your complainer! :D

[Catfish]

Well we saw how this worked out for Yasser Arafat, Shimon Peres and Yitzhak Rabin in 1994..

However generally, the idea to influence people to do something positive is not a bad idea. Or to place them in the spotlight, as a symbol for others.

I guess Dylan is not the badest of decisions; there may be other/better singers or bands, but with that intentional political influence? Ok i still think there are others who deserve it more.

OT
The new geman mob despises all though, even when it's positive. Fury, hate and deliberate misunderstanding is the hype here, you just have to choose your subject and then voice your (self)righteous complaints. See Facebook.
Ranting has become a lifestyle of itself ;)

[MLF]

Out of a matter of interest, I looked at the list of previous "winners" of the prize and recognised very few of the names - perhaps I will start delving into their works, who knows.

Dylan is known world-wide. His work has spanned more than half a century and the meaning of his lyrics have been analysed throughout that time. When the music is taken away, and perhaps the chorus, what you are left with is a verbal painting of a situation, whether it be a protest against war (Masters of War), the treatment of people by society (The Lonesome Death of Hattie Carroll), a poem about a bank robbery (Lily,Rosemary and the Jack of Hearts) or one of love (Sad Eyed Lady of the Lowlands). And then of course there is Desolation Row (which reminded me somewhat of the Bowery in New York in the 70's). His work is timeless and is respected by todays generation as much as it was by kids in the 60's.

Leonard Cohen is indeed another person who puts meaningful poems to music but they are generally more sombre and somewhat more depressing although his live performances are very much more polished than Dylan's.

[Skybird]

However generally, the idea to influence people to do something positive is not a bad idea. Or to place them in the spotlight, as a symbol for others.


Then set up a foudnation. Have a public event like a donation ball. A TV event. Awards and Prizes however are by definition rewards for achieve,ents already successfully installed - not to be given for something you hopoe will be done in the future. For that, you would need incentives.

Has there ever been a movie that got an Oscar although the ovie was not shot? Any scientific work that was not accomplished but earned the scientist a reward?

Prizes are not to be given in advance. They come after the deed is done.

Also, Nobel founded his award with specific intentions and definitions for what these should be rewarded. And the Peace Nobel he did not found for all that stuff it gets used for now at all. I do not like this almost natural stealing of somebody'S idea just to propagate your own poltical desires and hopes for the future. Nobel cannot defend himself against this abuse. And thats why they abuse him.

Heck, i am really not the first one criticising the committee for what it has rightously done in recent years and decades. Nobel must rotate in his grave when seeing the list of Peace Nobel winners, and the massive abuse by the committee.

[Onkel Neal]

I'm actually surprised that someone hasn't complained, like they usually do over who gets the peace prize. :hmmm:

When it's stupid (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34277960), we complain.

Because Dylan was and is 100-percent anti war, he demonstrated and still is against the Vietnam war, the US belligerent engagement in the middle East and against racism.
For right-wingers and "patriots" this is usually enough to throw with dirt.

Well, almost all artists and musicians are "anti-war", that's pretty easy to ignore when enjoying their works.

But it begs the question: who is really "pro-war"? That's getting off topic, but most people are against war.

[Oberon]

But it begs the question: who is really "pro-war"? That's getting off topic, but most people are against war.

Anyone when they're made to be.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads20/goering+quote1341290363.jpg

[u crank]

Because Dylan was and is 100-percent anti war, he demonstrated and still is against the Vietnam war, the US belligerent engagement in the middle East and against racism.


Dylan was part of the 'protest singers' movement of the 60's as were many others. He didn't start it but somehow was the appointed leader. I don't think he cared for that title and distanced himself from that style of music. From Bringing It All Back Home on he leaned toward rock music and a somewhat different style of writing. Journalists were suggesting that he was a spokesman for his generation but Bob insisted he wasn't. He would write....

"Don't follow leaders
Watch the parkin' meters"


..But there's a woman named Joni Mitchell, who allegedly said that "Everything about Bob is a deception" .
Does she know something about Bob we don't?:hmmm:

As for that comment well I have found her to seem a little bitter in her old age. She has said bad things about others as well. As for Bob being a deception...yea that's what he usually goes for. He doesn't want anyone to know who he really is. He has been doing that along.

[Platapus]

I'm certainly not going to complain but to be totally honest, I'm not really all that interested.


I seem to spend more and more of my time not being interested in the Nobel Prizes.

[Aktungbby]

I'm complaining! I'm offended that some peacenik hippy writing all those anti-war lyrics should get the Peace Prize! It's an affront to all...










Wait, whut?










:rock: Allow me:D: I'm complaining! I'm offended that some Hibbing, MINNESOTA peacenik hippy writing all those anti-war lyrics should get the Peace Prize! It's an affront to all...
EDIT following a lot of articles; pro and con; Billy Collins, the former United States poet laureate, argued that Mr. Dylan deserved to be recognized not merely as a songwriter, but as a poet.
“Most song lyrics don’t really hold up without the music, and they aren’t supposed to,” Mr. Collins said in an interview. “Bob Dylan is in the 2 percent club of songwriters whose lyrics are interesting on the page even without the harmonica and the guitar and his very distinctive voice. I think he does qualify as poetry.”
In giving the literature prize to Mr. Dylan, the academy may also be recognizing that the gap has closed between high art and more commercial creative forms.
“It’s literature, but it’s music, it’s performance, it’s art, it’s also highly commercial,” said David Hajdu (http://www.davidhajdu.com/), a music critic for The Nation who has written extensively about Mr. Dylan and his contemporaries. “The old categories of high and low art, they’ve been collapsing for a long time, but this is it being made official.”Bottom line; I don't much care for his stuff (more Pete Seeger, Woody Guthrie, Neal Young) but I never doubted that he is extremely talented, daring, never disappointing, and persistently messaging in many genres...for half a century!! He is still a 'work in progress' which many will undoubtedly follow with more interest now that the recognition is pretty universal.

[Onkel Neal]

Anyone when they're made to be.



Goering knows best?

[HW3]

The Nobel Peace Prize 2016 was awarded to Juan Manuel Santos.

The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 was awarded to Bob Dylan.

Just thought I would clear that up. :Kaleun_Salute:

[Skybird]

Goering knows best?
Machiavelli, as another example.

Those Goering quotes, or Machiavelli's writings, are simple observations of the obvious. Empirically proven all too often in history. They do not speak compliments about humans, especially when humans show up in great groups and crowds - but they are true.

The mechanisms of power, and how to obtain it and keep it, maybe have not significantly changed since millenia. And why should they have? Why changing them when they so well helped the ambitions of those seeking power ?

IQ and size of a crowd, are reverse proportional.

[August]

Because Dylan was and is 100-percent anti war, he demonstrated and still is against the Vietnam war, the US belligerent engagement in the middle East and against racism.
For right-wingers and "patriots" this is usually enough to throw with dirt.

You Germans always claim you know what's "usual" about other countries. :roll:

[_dgn_]

Literature Nobel Prize for the singer Bob Dylan ? :haha:

Completely ridiculous !!!

Next year, it will be surely decreed with another US "celebrity" like Homer Simpson ... :har:

It's really a crazy world ! :yep:

[Catfish]

You Germans always claim you know what's "usual" about other countries. :roll:

My response was dircetly tailored for the usual US behaviour, and not other countries.
Jane Fonda anyone?