Starting from Scratch

[Pnzrldr]

New guy here - retired US Army, but baptized on a USN ship and live near Norfolk/Newport News, VA. Just reread Harry Homewood's "Final Harbor" for reasons unknown. Mediocre novel, great sub story. Then read "Silent Victory" cover to cover. Great history, but a bit monotonous. Tells the complete story though, which is utterly amazing. Once upon a time I was a huge SHII/SHIII devotee. When I got SH4 - years ago - my crappy computer and the Ubi-bugs kept me from ever figuring it out and enjoying it, so I gave up. I now have a superb gaming platform running Win10/64. I would like someone to give me a step-by-step for getting SH4, because I really, really want to play it and enjoy it. I haven't bought it yet (used to own it but lost/discarded years ago). I would like to install the game with a set of basic mods that make it work properly and enhance play/realism without going completely over the top. I am specifically interested in well-crafted campaign play in the Pacific. I am asking some questions I know are answered elsewhere principally because I am unsure of the validity of 5 year old answers.

1. Can the Steam version(s) be made to work properly? Just install outside /program files/ per the 'steam settings'? If I buy both SH4 and the Uboot upgrade on Steam, do they get the game to 1.5 for me, or must I go find the patches prior to doing mods?
2. If Steam CANNOT be made to work, are there any required tips/tricks to install from DVDs? Any tips on where to acquire them? Amazon? Ebay?
3. I will read/follow this thread http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2297818&postcount=1 to relearn the game, and will likely follow advice to add GFO 1.1 and the SCAF mods initially. Is there anything I can put on top of these to enhance campaign play?

Thanks much for any advice. Open to PM if desired. Thanks much, and please help drag me away from WoWs. Its utterly beautiful, addictive and incredibly stupid!

[propbeanie]

On Steam, it's basically $10 for v1.3 of the game, which has to be patched to v1.4 to eliminate some more of the game's bugs. Then you can install the Uboats Add-on that you have to pay $10 for. The advantage of this is that you could have a v1.4 and a v1.5 install, if Steam let's you make a copy of your first install. That's not as advantageous as it was a few years back, when there were a few more mods for v1.4.

Amazon has the "Gold Edition" download available again at $20. It's v1.5 "out of the box". Much simpler, and you have easier control over the install folder.

Both locations will run a "sale" on the game, and it is possible to find it for half-price at times, though neither is having a sale on it now. There are other online retailers that have it too usually, but Google didn't give me any other useful hits on the first two pages.

You could use the "stock" install initially, so you get a hang of the game, or just do GFO straight away, since it basically leaves the game "as is", and just fixes a few fixable aspects, and pretties a few things up. It's been my main mod for a couple years now. I added a couple mods to it, including Improved Stock Environments #1, and the GFO patch for it. The basic "dynamic" campaign stays the same.

Once you get used to it, then you can experiment some with the mods. Just be sure and check-out Fall of the Rising Sun Ultimate Edition, being readied now for launch...

[Aktungbby]

Pnzrldr!:Kaleun_Salute:

[Pnzrldr]

Thanks, if the download from Amazon is easiest I'll go that route - gift cards, ya know?

Once you get used to it, then you can experiment some with the mods. Just be sure and check-out Fall of the Rising Sun Ultimate Edition, being readied now for launch...
I see this WIP going on. What is the crux of the mod? What do the combined three versions amount to? I saw a vid on YT that seemed focused on surface warfare? Is it still a subsim, or more holistic?

[propbeanie]

Fall of the Rising Sun is a mod that sits on top of Silent Hunter 4. There were several versions released originally by AOTD_MadMax. Some were for SH4 v1.4 (no Uboats), and some for v1.5 (with the Uboats). Really nice graphics, and a different campaign based upon Trigger Maru Overhauled v1.7, which is also a mod, or "modification" of the "base" game. Showing of the surface warfare just makes it easier to "see" the changes in the game, more ships, better smoke, etc., than if your perspective is from 60 feet below the surface... Explosions are much more impressive if you're right up by them too... :lol:

The "Ultimate Edition" is a re-working of the mod by a group of folks here, led by Rockin Robbins, and we're all fans of the original. AOTD_MadMax is not participating in the project, but is aware of it. We're basing this version on MadMax's version 2, which was only built for SH4 v1.4, and was only in the German language. This will be an English language conversion to SH4 v1.5, with a few changes, including bringing in all of the ships that AOTD_MadMax made for all of his FotRS mod versions. The idea also will include "certified to work with" mods that will allow the user some flexibility in including additional ships, Artificial Intelligence difficulty settings, targeting system, etc. It should be fun, and might come out for public beta testing shortly. What the word "shortly" means here loosely is "sometime later, hopefully not too long"... :06: - so don't hold your breathe. You probably don't have quite enough... It's looking like most of the kinks have been ironed out, but when you put it all together and stir slowly over a low fire for initial release, there might still be a few gremlins come popping out of the uncooked batter...

[THEBERBSTER]

A Warm Welcome To The Subsim Community > Pnzrldr
Subsim <> How To Donate <> See The Benefits <> Support The Community (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=2033119%23post2033119)
Highly Recommended SH4 > Webster’s GFO (Mini Mega Mod) (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1196)

[Jimbuna]

Welcome to SubSim Pnzrldr :Kaleun_Salute:

[torpedobait]

You may want to consider making a small donation to Subsim.com to support the servers and services. I think the minimum is $5. This will give you access to certain bonus downloads, one of which is the Gold Edition, which is v1.5 including the U-Boat missions. This version is generally the basis for some excellent mods, one of which makes a valiant attempt at mirroring the historical events (RSRDC). Some posters here don't like that, because with 20/20 hindsight it is predictable. But I like it! You will want to do your own messing with mods, as I have done for several years now.

[Pnzrldr]

Well, I already ran into the daily download limit! But I grabbed the Gold edition from Amazon for $20 so don't need the extra sugar. Glad to kick in $5 to a worthy cause!

[Pnzrldr]

Hey, the GFO mod instructions say it doesn't work 100% w/ RSRDC later than 401. However, I can only find 565 on the downloads board. Where can I find 401, or is using 565 with minor decrement acceptable? Any advice? Never mind. Amazing what actually using the provided search engine will do. Anyone know how much difference I'll find between 401 and the latest 565?

[Rockin Robbins]

Hey, the GFO mod instructions say it doesn't work 100% w/ RSRDC later than 401. However, I can only find 565 on the downloads board. Where can I find 401, or is using 565 with minor decrement acceptable? Any advice? Never mind. Amazing what actually using the provided search engine will do. Anyone know how much difference I'll find between 401 and the latest 565?
I installed GFO with RSRDC 565, used the GFO RSRDC patch and had no problems. I am getting disconcerted with the very idea of RSRDC and lately believe that a dynamic campaign, such as the devs made for the base game, is better and more realistic than a canned campaign.

In war, the adversaries dynamically probe, attack, retreat, choose missions depending on strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and threats of the instant. Depending on what their assessment of those factors are, the two sides will do something different.

Therefore, if the war were to be fought over, battles would be in different places. Convoys would be sent at different times from different origins to different destinations. In RSRDC, if during the war, a port sent out convoys to Tokyo Harbor weekly except for a month when Wahoo hung offshore, that's what that port will do whether you are there or not. It's like shooting fish in a barrel because they stopped for Wahoo. You don't exist. They are a rote recording, a robot, a terrible way to run a submarine simulation.

[Pnzrldr]

Not saying I'll keep RSRDC on, but wanted to give it a go and see what I thought. Would need at least some mod to fix all the bugs in the original - though I suppose some of those may be ironed out by 1.5. I think I was probably on back in the 1.1 days. If I don't like it I'll take it off and try something else. How would you characterize RFB vs. TMO vs. FOTRS? What sorts of different experiences do they offer?


Next question - how do I relearn how to shoot torpedoes!!! I have zero interest in using the arcade version in the game, I want to plot and hit using real tools. I see an enormous wealth of stuff on this, but wonder where to go for a basic one over the world - aside from the actual manual.

[Rockin Robbins]

You can visit my Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks thread and we have lots of techniques you can use. I teach the Dick O'Kane, John P Cromwell and vector analysis methods, which are constant bearing techniques shot from 90º, 45º and any chosen relationsihip to the target track. That way recognition manual wizardry is unnecessary.

The manual has a really fractured set of instructions on manual targeting the stadimeter way with target identification necessary. They get it entirely wrong. It's very important, for instance, what order you enter your information into the TDC. It's also important to push the send button twice for each parameter.

Basically, if you want to shoot accurately you will enter the course/angle on the bow and speed first. Then the stadimater shot instantly puts the bead on the target with great accuracy. Any other order will result in inaccuracies and misses. Usually I'll enter speed, target course/aob, then bearing/range with the stadimeter. Stadimeter is very touchy. One pixel off means bad range. Correct target identification is essential. Good thing our recongnition manual contains every ship on the seven seas.

[Pnzrldr]

Why does my recognition manual seem to omit target length? I don't see how people are doing speed calculations if target length is not listed.

[Rockin Robbins]

Target length is not used to compute speed. It was NEVER used, either by the Americans or the Germans. Quite simply, in order to use it at all you have to accurately identify the target. Less than 40% of targets sunk were identified properly. Not only that but the length of the target is very short compared to the method of timing positions of the entire ship over a 3 minute or longer run.

The longer the distance you time the more accurate your speed measurement is. Timing for a mere ship's length, even if you get lucky and ID it properly, results in significant error.

[Gray Lensman]

Why does my recognition manual seem to omit target length? I don't see how people are doing speed calculations if target length is not listed.

To see how people are doing speed calculations without target length, do this:

Set the clock on the map next to the target on the target track. Mark the target position with an X and immediately start the clock. Wait 3 minutes (3 minutes is the preferred choice for reasons you'll see in a moment) When the clock hits exactly 3 minutes elapsed time, make another X on the target position.

You now have 2 things.

First and most obvious is the target course.

Second, take your in-game compass tool and measure the distance in yards between the first and second Xs. (Let's say that distance is 900 yards... Your target is moving 9 knots) (If the distance was 700, speed would be 7 knots), etc.

For confirmation that this works you can do the calculations from 900 yards in 3 minutes and convert it to 300 yards/minute which is equiv to (300 yards x 60 minutes/hour) or 18000 yards per hour.... Since there are almost 2000 yards per nautical mile (2025.37183 to be exact to be nitpickingly exact. (is that even a word LOL) you have 18000/2000 = 9 knots That's precisely why the 3 minute rule is the preferred method of speed calculation and target length is not needed.


edit1> 3 minutes is the preferred duration because it so obviously gives you the speed without having to do the calculations, 6 minutes works also but you have to divide the yards traveled by 2 to get the knots. I don't generally use other durations because then you really do have to run thru the conversion/calculations every time unless of course you are using a lookup cross-reference table. Also 6 minutes might not be so useful if taking a final speed confirmation reading on a fast mover. (see next edit)

edit2> Assuming an end around maneuver is required, I will usually take 3 speed readings during a target tracking to ensure no subtle speed/course changes. The first one is the initial one to get the sub headed on an intercept course. The second is just a mid end around cycle confirmation reading usually done on the surface at just barely visible distance. (This barely visible distance is my estimation of their ability to see the sub, not my ability to see them, quite often a little over 5nm (10000 yards), but varies day to night and weather). The third and final speed check is after I'm positioned at the intercept point and at periscope depth, when the target is approx. 2000 yards + his 3 minute yardage speed (the example above 2000+900 or approx. 2900 yards out I pop the scope up and get the first X, pop the scope back down, wait 3 minutes, pop the scope up and get the second X. This confirms the target speed/course has not changed with a zig/zag.

I think it's safe to assume you're new (we all were at one time or another), so now that you are armed with course and speed, see Post #23 here! (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=227553&page=2)

Hope this helps.