War on Drugs Filipino style

[Onkel Neal]

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/08/28/asia/philippines-voices-drugs-war/index.html

Duterte's tough talk on the country's drug and crime problems won him the election and, 60 days on from his inauguration, he remains extremely popular.

"Double your efforts. Triple them, if need be. We will not stop until the last drug lord, the last financier, and the last pusher have surrendered or put behind bars -- or below the ground, if they so wish," he said in his July 25 State of the Nation speech.

Getting tough on drugs and getting results.

[August]

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/08/28/asia/philippines-voices-drugs-war/index.html





Getting tough on drugs and getting results.

Some results:

Lifeless bodies lying on the streets of the Philippines are a visceral sign of new President Rodrigo Duterte's war on drugs.So far more than 1,900 people have died. Of those more than 700 have been killed in police operations since Duterte took office in late June, according to police statistics. Many of the unsolved deaths are attributed to vigilantes.

"Those policemen might kill us once we spoke out the truth," Janie says. "I said to myself, they have the license to kill already." They came to his house, she says, and forced their way in.
"Handcuffed already, they shot (him in the) head." Janie alleges they killed three other men with him.

[Onkel Neal]

Some results:
Yep, that's how it works

[Oberon]

Kill them all and let God sort out the innocent from the guilty?

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/923/887/2f4.jpg

[Rockstar]

Had they sold bananas they might have lived longer.

https://youtu.be/T-uJVA90hTE

[Onkel Neal]

It's a war on drugs, get it? War? :haha:

[Oberon]

Collateral damage rarely helps a war effort.

[Betonov]

Exactly.

It's the thought of how many we're killed by mistake, malice or crossfire that prevents me from completely relishing that someone finally started whacking lowlifes from the face of the planet.

[Von Due]

One of my main concerns is when will we see the targets being critics of the president, or the chief of police, or the highest bidder? As for collatoral damage, the Miami drug wars in the 70's and 80's saw people being murdered by the hundreds, including toddlers. Murder is a basic, first-to-go-to tool in the drug traders' tool kit. Then the drugs themselves. Drugs wreck havoc on families, communities, regions and countries.

I am against going around killing, for whatever reason but I also wonder, what has not been tried in the war against drugs and is killing the dealers constructive in that sense? I'm not convinced it is but it is a tough question that puts the saying "the end justifies the means" to the test and I don't have a very good answer to that as it stands.

Will he be able to rid the country of drugs? No. Too much money involved and too powerful criminal organizations (and entire countries: North Korea's Room 39 leaps to mind) have an interest in it for one country and a maverick president to kick out the dealers. Eradicate local drug businesses and foreign drug businesses will move in and some of them are pretty well equipped for a war against the Philipino Govt.

Did these murders solve the drug problem then?

[Schroeder]

The problem I have with that is that police officers and self appointed "deputies" become law enforcement, jury, judge and executioner in one person. No hard evidence needed. What happened to the right of a fair trial (if there was such a thing in the Philippines)? How are innocent supposed to defend themselves from wrong accusations if being accused already gets you a bullet to the head? How is made sure that no one is using the whole mess to get rid of unwanted business competition, critics etc?
What's going on there has nothing to do with a nation of law.:down:

[HunterICX]

Collateral damage rarely helps a war effort.

No, but realistically collateral damage and War effort, one doesn't come without the other as that's the price to pay in any War just make the end of it worth that price and keep it as low and unintentional as possible.
I Doubt it though that this is the case with this but it seems the people are supportive of his methods so well they think it's worth the price so far but that'll change if he goes to far which I suspect he will one day.

Anyway besides that I don't agree that someone can just hand out a license to kill to a police force who is to serve and protect and that includes the rights of suspected but not confirmed felons...you can put the druglords, dealers, cutters & brewers or what you call them against the wall for all I care but only after they've been confirmed to be guilty with solid evidence of the crime and not before.

[Jimbuna]

It would appear this guy is 'deadly' serious in any sense of the word...

Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte has threatened to "separate" from the UN after it criticised his war on drugs as a crime under international law.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-37147630

[Onkel Neal]

Collateral damage rarely helps a war effort.

Yeah, tell that to Hiroshima.

One of my main concerns is when will we see the targets being critics of the president, or the chief of police, or the highest bidder? As for collatoral damage, the Miami drug wars in the 70's and 80's saw people being murdered by the hundreds, including toddlers. Murder is a basic, first-to-go-to tool in the drug traders' tool kit. Then the drugs themselves. Drugs wreck havoc on families, communities, regions and countries.


I would be very concerned too, this kind of thing can get out of control, with police becoming a hit squad for non-criminal related activities. Still, if the govt there is managing this carefully, the 1900 bodies would be drug criminals who were the cancer eating away their communities.

[Ashikaga]

A very dangerous man with dictatorial aspects.

A killer without remorse.

Worse than Marcos if you ask me.

Ashikaga

[Oberon]

No, but realistically collateral damage and War effort, one doesn't come without the other as that's the price to pay in any War just make the end of it worth that price and keep it as low and unintentional as possible.
I Doubt it though that this is the case with this but it seems the people are supportive of his methods so well they think it's worth the price so far but that'll change if he goes to far which I suspect he will one day.

It doesn't mean that you shouldn't try to reduce that price, after all, isn't that exactly what we've striven to do in warfare technology since the Second World War?

Yeah, tell that to Hiroshima.

If the bombs had been dropped in 1941 or 1942 at the extent of Japans victories and not at the nadir of her fortunes, do you think that Japan would have surrendered?
What about the people of Dresden, Hamburg, Coventry, London, Berlin, Warsaw, Rotterdam, Guernica, Frampol, and Kassel achieve for their nations war effort? Was the end of the war in Europe hastened by Bomber Commands attacks on civilian targets? Did Britain capitulate when the Luftwaffe bombed London? :hmmm:

[HunterICX]

It doesn't mean that you shouldn't try to reduce that price, after all, isn't that exactly what we've striven to do in warfare technology since the Second World War?

Didn't I mention too keep that price as low and unintentional as possible? That implies the use of better tech and methods.

[Schroeder]

Still, if the govt there is managing this carefully, the 1900 bodies would be drug criminals who were the cancer eating away their communities.
Why would you trust that government more than any other you've seen so far? I don't think I've ever seen a government that didn't screw up to some extend and even if he could make sure it's all criminals there is still the issue of due process that is entirely skipped there. I wouldn't want to live in a country where the Sheriff or a group of thugs decide who gets to live and who gets some lead with no questions asked.
If they can find all those "criminals" then they can apprehend them just as well. If they resist or try to use lethal force than it becomes a completely different ball game of course. But right now it seems to me we're talking on the spot executions here with no questions asked.
That's not how it should be done at all. :nope:

[Oberon]

Didn't I mention too keep that price as low and unintentional as possible? That implies the use of better tech and methods.

True, true, although as Sun Tzu put it 'The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting'. :yep:

[Platapus]

If you were addicted to drugs, would you suddenly stop using drugs because some government guy started killing people?

If you were making tons of money in the drug trade, would you suddenly stop because some government guy started killing people?

I suspect the answer is no.

[Mr Quatro]

China is starting to be a big supplier of drugs :yep:
Illicit drugs killing Americans aren’t always from Mexico

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/aug/29/the-china-drug-connection/
The substance that killed Prince was a so-called “designer drug,” meaning it was made in a laboratory and wasn’t derived from a plant like heroin or cocaine. In this case the drug was “fentanyl.”

All illicit fentanyl comes into the United States from China, either directly or indirectly through the Mexican cartels.

Some of the victims die as Prince did, while others are injured for life. Even babies are being born hooked on it, often prematurely

[Torvald Von Mansee]

If you were addicted to drugs, would you suddenly stop using drugs because some government guy started killing people?

If you were making tons of money in the drug trade, would you suddenly stop because some government guy started killing people?

I suspect the answer is no.

People still try to smuggle drugs into Singapore.

Of course, the most pragmatic way to deal with the drug war would be to legalize everything. Of course, that would impact someone's profits, somewhere, so that won't happen.

[Osmium Steele]

It doesn't mean that you shouldn't try to reduce that price, after all, isn't that exactly what we've striven to do in warfare technology since the Second World War?

What about the people of Dresden, Hamburg, Coventry, London, Berlin, Warsaw, Rotterdam, Guernica, Frampol, and Kassel achieve for their nations war effort? Was the end of the war in Europe hastened by Bomber Commands attacks on civilian targets?

A certain Star Trek episode comes to mind, and remember, that series was written by WWII veterans who saw the horrors up close.

WWI was a relatively clean war. Static fronts, mainly warfighters dying in the millions, and just 20 years later WWII broke out.

With the above carnage you mentioned, there hasn't been another war on the continent for 70+ years and Germany has a phobia of being seen as too aggressive. Yet elsewhere, the American war machine has made war clean, precise, with minimal collateral damage and fighting flourishes in endless streams of violence.

War SHOULD be horrible. It should affect "those back home" in very real and visceral ways so as to minimize the tendency to wage it.

I think it was Robert E. Lee who said, "It is good that war is so terrible, lest we grow too fond of it."

[Von Due]

should affect "those back home" in very real and visceral ways so as to minimize the tendency to wage it.

I think it was Robert E. Lee who said, "It is good that war is so terrible, lest we grow too fond of it."

One problem here is it's not just the "people back home" who are affected. Civilians in the war zones are very much affected and they never waged it, asked for it or wanted it. It was thrown at them and they had to and still have to pay heavy prices they should never have had to pay. I don't think anyone in my neighbourhood can explain to me the horrors the way those living dab in the middle of it can.

In a war, civilians have always been "legit" targets. Reliable WW1 numbers are hard to come by but most agree that Russia and the Ottoman Empire saw horrendous losses of civilian lives due to the war directly or war crimes stemming from and committed during the war.

What makes WW2 so "special" is the sheer number of civilians lost (as well as the direct causes) but it was in no way the first war where civilians were targeted. Nor the last. Drug wars are no exceptions with massacres of civilians in recent decades.

[Mr Quatro]

What if instead of killing the drug dealers and drug users you just lock them up in football stadiums and sell them the drugs that you confiscate.

Let them do drugs till they overdose and make money off of them at the same time. They will always find a way to buy drugs in prison or out of prison. :yep:

[Von Due]

Many users are easily reached but not all. Cocaine and amphetamine are still hugely popular and accepted in the high end of society with lawyers and businessmen/CEOs among them.
The top dogs in the organizations are a whole other deal. How are you going to reach people who are protected by officials, in some cases by the same people who are supposed to go after them?
What will happen is, inconsequential and totally replaceable dealers will go down together with users not so fortunate as to have a job title to hide behind and the people pulling all the strings, recruiting, bribing, blackmail and kill their way into society will go free.

Apart from this: Users need to kick their habit. Easy to say, huh? but it's the truth. Prison, death, that's not what they need. They need to get out of it. If they can do it themselves then great, and some do get out with support from family and people around them. If they can't quit themselves, then they should get the aid they need to put it behind them. What that should be, I don't know but it is a case-to-case issue.

For the dealers I have a lot less sympathy but I do acknowledge that behind any dealer on the corner is a trail that leads to heavy duty organized crime and the poverty that drives farmers to grow opium or coca plants.

[Oberon]

A certain Star Trek episode comes to mind, and remember, that series was written by WWII veterans who saw the horrors up close.

WWI was a relatively clean war. Static fronts, mainly warfighters dying in the millions, and just 20 years later WWII broke out.

With the above carnage you mentioned, there hasn't been another war on the continent for 70+ years and Germany has a phobia of being seen as too aggressive. Yet elsewhere, the American war machine has made war clean, precise, with minimal collateral damage and fighting flourishes in endless streams of violence.

War SHOULD be horrible. It should affect "those back home" in very real and visceral ways so as to minimize the tendency to wage it.

I think it was Robert E. Lee who said, "It is good that war is so terrible, lest we grow too fond of it."

A Taste of Armageddon? Good episode that, and I could see a future war being fought like that.
Truth be told, I'd rather that we never had war, but could our planets population growth survive such a thing? Perhaps, one could hope that in such a utopia we would be able to up reach up those living in poverty and reduce the rate of child birth and mortality into a rate which is sustainable for our food and water supplies.
Unfortunately I don't think we'll ever see the end of war, and while I can see the point you're making in that war should be so terrible that we dare not wage it, you just know that eventually someone somewhere would cross that line. Take nuclear weapons, we've managed seventy odd years without one being used, but the longer we go on, I think the more likely it becomes that someone somewhere is going to use one.

Time will tell. :hmmm:

[Mr Quatro]

Many users are easily reached but not all. Cocaine and amphetamine are still hugely popular and accepted in the high end of society with lawyers and businessmen/CEOs among them.
The top dogs in the organizations are a whole other deal. How are you going to reach people who are protected by officials, in some cases by the same people who are supposed to go after them?
What will happen is, inconsequential and totally replaceable dealers will go down together with users not so fortunate as to have a job title to hide behind and the people pulling all the strings, recruiting, bribing, blackmail and kill their way into society will go free.

Apart from this: Users need to kick their habit. Easy to say, huh? but it's the truth. Prison, death, that's not what they need. They need to get out of it. If they can do it themselves then great, and some do get out with support from family and people around them. If they can't quit themselves, then they should get the aid they need to put it behind them. What that should be, I don't know but it is a case-to-case issue.

For the dealers I have a lot less sympathy but I do acknowledge that behind any dealer on the corner is a trail that leads to heavy duty organized crime and the poverty that drives farmers to grow opium or coca plants.

Good points Von Due come join us more often :up:

Most drug dealers are users, started off by another dealer with the hint that they can supply their own need by selling the drug too.

What I propose will never happen in this country, but it could very well start in another country. Just put them in all in the same prison with drugs that are for sale ... then test everyone and the one with clean blood gets to go free.

[Moonlight]

^ sounds good, there won't be many being set free though.
You could always give them an incentive to be drug free, get the cameras rolling and the one with the highest drug count in their body gets to face the rope.
Clean and simple me thinks but our useless governments wouldn't go for it, They could call it "stop or drop", it would make something worth watching on the TV for a change.
You might think that I'm jesting about it but I'm deadly serious, I despise drug addicts and pushers and if they needed someone to do the job my name would be going forward.

[Von Due]

Most drug dealers are users, started off by another dealer with the hint that they can supply their own need by selling the drug too.


In numbers, that is completely true, I believe but in volume, combined they are still small fish. They are the replaceable ones, easily disposed of if wanted. They might make what, a grand, a couple of grand a week but the big fish make millions each week. Some make tens of millions a week or more.

These guys don't sell grams but kilos or tons, and they don't stand on the corner. They are in the shadow paying others to do the jobs. The very top make good efforts in staying out of the spotlight, getting the big money and handing out jobs via a chain of people. On that level, the ones staying alive the longest are the ones not using since users are often seen as a liability and security risk and are not rarely found face down in a ditch somewhere, or if they're Mexican, their family members are found face down in a ditch somewhere if there are anyone left in the town alive to discover anything at all.
Rarely are these big fish caught and when they are caught, the prisons show little to no interest in isolating them. On the contrary. These big fish have prison guards and directors, police, lawyers and judges, soldiers, leutenants and generals, and politicians, on their payrolls. The ones taking the bribes won't bite the hand that feeds them.

For that reason alone don't I have the slightest illusion that any state or Govt will solve the drug problem. They will go public crying out for war against drugs but apart from the lone weirdo who didn't take bribes, war against drugs would more likely mean war against the gang or family that threatens their own favourite gang or family. Call me cynical but that's how I gathered it is.

[Catfish]

You should really read Don Winslow's "The power of the dog" and "The cartel", they are real eye openers. It is about Mexico and the Narcos, but don't blame it on them, it is the US that buys most of the drugs.

The cartels may have been mere trafficking gangs long ago, but are now "little states, with their bosses being politicians sending other men to war. Some of those men are putatively public servants, but graft has so comprehensively penetrated the state that at one point the drug wars take the surreal form of local police fighting their federal counterparts, each side on the payroll of a different cartel."

The higher powers like e.g. the American government and the Mexican government have a philosophy like there is always going to be a drug trade and a drug cartel, so it might as well be our drug cartel. If you want to blame and shoot all who are somewhere in the drug selling chain, you can begin with the Mafia, with the Mexican and US government, and then go on to their law enforcement, the CIA, and then go on to Europe, China, anywhere, but it will not work.
No chance in hell you will get this ever right.

[Mr Quatro]

Is alright to talk about drugs and drug dealers and drug agents in this thread?

From a arm chair prospective I can't tell if the drug problem is getting better or getting worse. I am ashamed of the two years I spent dealing and using, but I am clean now and a better person that can see my past mistakes.

I am lucky not to be in prison hoping for an Obama pardon lol

I love my country no matter who the president is, no matter which party is in control of the distribution of our tax dollars. I still love the USA even when it gets embarrassed by the NSA/Snowden affair.

What is the DEA doing about the drug problem?
We don't know, but we know what they were doing, uh?

The DEA Just Ended A Secret 15-Year Phone Call Spying Program

http://www.businessinsider.com/r-us-drug-enforcement-agency-halts-huge-secret-data-program-2015-1

A Justice Department spokesman said on Friday that the DEA no longer collects the data and that "all of the information has been deleted."

U.S. Government Helped Rise of Mexican Drug Cartel: Report


The U.S. government allowed the Mexican Sinaloa drug cartel to carry out its business unimpeded between 2000 and 2012 in exchange for information on rival cartels, an investigation by El Universal claims.

Citing court documents, the Mexican newspaper reports that DEA officers met with top Sinaloa officials over fifty times and offered to have charges against cartel members dropped in the U.S., among other pledges.
Dr. Edgardo Buscaglia, a senior research scholar in law and economics at Columbia University, says that the tactic has been previously used in Colombia, Cambodia, Thailand and Afghanistan.


http://world.time.com/2014/01/14/dea-boosted-mexican-drug-cartel/

At first I was shocked, but in hindsight how can they do their job without what they were doing?

I don't think they can :hmm2:

[Von Due]

First to Mr Quatro. I am really happy hearing you have that put behind you. Rock on.

Now, I am tempted to paraphrase Bill Hicks.
"So, CIA, how did you track drug money to North Korean banks?"
"We.. uh... looked at the receipts"

Now one can really wonder what the killings in the Philippines will achieve.

[mapuc]

I have lost two of my old classmate to this evil stuff.


Markus

[August]

^ sounds good, there won't be many being set free though.
You could always give them an incentive to be drug free, get the cameras rolling and the one with the highest drug count in their body gets to face the rope.
Clean and simple me thinks but our useless governments wouldn't go for it, They could call it "stop or drop", it would make something worth watching on the TV for a change.
You might think that I'm jesting about it but I'm deadly serious, I despise drug addicts and pushers and if they needed someone to do the job my name would be going forward.

Well if our government ever starts doing this then i'm joining the rebellion that it will cause.

[Jimbuna]

^ sounds good, there won't be many being set free though.
You could always give them an incentive to be drug free, get the cameras rolling and the one with the highest drug count in their body gets to face the rope.
Clean and simple me thinks but our useless governments wouldn't go for it, They could call it "stop or drop", it would make something worth watching on the TV for a change.
You might think that I'm jesting about it but I'm deadly serious, I despise drug addicts and pushers and if they needed someone to do the job my name would be going forward.

Was that you I saw constructing the gallows when I was driving through Sheffield last week? :hmm2:

[Moonlight]

Was that you I saw constructing the gallows when I was driving through Sheffield last week? :hmm2:

Shhhhh, our glorious leader (kinky knickers May) doesn't want people to know about her new illegal immigrant policy as yet, she's shelved the drug fiasco for now and has moved us onto the finding and disposing of evidence problem.
Where do I find a 100.000 + illegal immigrants that you lost I asked her? "on the end of a bleeding rope" she replied. :haha:

[Von Due]

This Duterte fellow is getting more and more bizarre.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-37274594

[Onkel Neal]

But Mr Duterte said he is not concerned about the opinions of those observing his actions, adding that he would not take orders from the US, a former colonial ruler of the Philippines.

...and former drug dealer. So yeah, Obama may want to sit this one out.

[Jimbuna]

Next stage: Obama cancels a meeting with Duterte.

I wonder if the Phillipines will relish taking on the Chinese alone over the Spratly Islands or if in fact the US will be able to allow it :hmmm:

Obama calls off meeting with Philippine leader after 'whore' jibe

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-37281821

[Von Due]

"While the immediate cause was my strong comments to certain press questions that elicited concern and distress, we also regret that it came across as a personal attack on the US president," a statement by his office said. :haha:

Well, we suppoooooose it COULD be taken that way.....

[Skybird]

"Celebrating diplomacy Filipino style." :88)

[mapuc]

From what I have seen and heard from the President Duterte I can assume he is not so well into using the diplomatic language

If he had-he would tell Obama to go an fly a kite in such a manor, that Obama would looking forward to this.

Markus

[Jimbuna]

He'll probably get on very well with Trump should he get elected in November.

[Oberon]

1) Taking advantage of the Philippine people’s understandable concern about a high crime rate, Duterte has unleashed a wave of violence against anyone suspected of being a criminal. During his campaign, he promised (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/12/world/asia/the-philippines-rodrigo-duterte-vigilante-violence.html) to kill so many outlaws that the “fish will grow fat” in Manila Bay from feasting on the remains. So far, more than 1,800 people have been killed (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/23/world/asia/philippines-rodrigo-duterte.html) by police and vigilantes since he came into office. No trial, no evidence: just death. Human-rights advocates are aghast, and understandably so. (It was in reaction to a journalist’s question about what he would say to Obama if the American president criticized his human-rights record that Duterte uttered his witty “son of a whore” comeback.)
Horrifying cases of misconduct are coming to light — for example, the execution of two impoverished Manila residents, Renato and Jaypee Bertes, a father and son who worked odd jobs and smoked shabu, a cheap form of methamphetamine. They were arrested by police, beaten, and shot to death. “The police said the two had tried to escape by seizing an officer’s gun,” the New York Times reported (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/20/world/asia/philippines-duterte-drug-killings.html). “But a forensic examination found that the men had been incapacitated by the beatings before they were shot; Jaypee Bertes had a broken right arm.”
And just this week a self-confessed assassin testified before the Philippine Senate that he was a member of a death squad that Duterte, when he was mayor of Davao, used to kill not only “drug dealers, rapists, [purse] snatchers” but also political opponents. Some of the victims were allegedly disemboweled and dumped at sea; at least one was fed to crocodiles. In the past, Duterte has both admitted and denied running a death squad.

2) Duterte publicly accused (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/08/world/asia/duterte-philippine-president-links-150-public-servants-to-drugs.html) scores of Philippine officials and military officers of involvement in the drug trade without revealing any evidence. He gave them 24 hours to surrender or be “hunted down.”
“Due process has nothing to do with my mouth,” he said. “There are no proceedings here, no lawyers.”

3) Duterte has justified the killing of journalists (http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/31/asia/philippines-duterte-journalists/) by saying, “Just because you’re a journalist you are not exempted from assassination if you’re a son of a bitch.”


:hmmm::hmmm::hmmm:

He's getting results alright...

[Catfish]

I guess McArthur would be back again soon, if he was still alive :03:

The world is becoming a place for right-wing bigmouths.

[Oberon]

The world is becoming a place for right-wing bigmouths.

Yup, and the sad thing is, people are being taken in by them in the droves. :nope:

[Von Due]

He is sounding more and more like the illegitimate son of Al Capone and Griselda Blanco.

[Oberon]

"Hitler massacred three million Jews... there's three million drug addicts. I'd be happy to slaughter them"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-37515642

[HunterICX]

So....killing Drug addicts = killing Jews :hmmm:

I've seen some piss poor comparisons come by over the years but this....Wow, he really lost it now. :nope:

[Betonov]

Looked so promising when I first read it.

A tougher grip on drug lords.

Now it looks like he's killing of some nobody street rats while the lords just find another hopeles smuck to sell of €20 of drugs before getting shot. Using the system to whack some opposition and maybe even secure a drug monopoly in the country by making sure his death squads only target rival drug dealers, ignoring his own.

He makes Putin look like Miro Cerar

[Oberon]

But he's getting results! :yep:

[Jimbuna]

That's all well and good in some peoples views but they obviously aren't one of those 'results'.

[Oberon]

That's all well and good in some peoples views but they obviously aren't one of those 'results'.

And there we have the whole crux of the 'strongman' leader, who punishes a group of people, if you're not part of those people then it doesn't matter to you, and it's a good thing...so long as you're not one of those people...

The old lessons still need learning:


First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

[Jimbuna]

And there we have the whole crux of the 'strongman' leader, who punishes a group of people, if you're not part of those people then it doesn't matter to you, and it's a good thing...so long as you're not one of those people...

The old lessons still need learning:


First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

QFT :yep:

[Oberon]

More results Duterte style, he's just ended the yearly joint US-Filipino exercise and demanded that US forces leave the Phillipines, claiming that he can always buy weapons from Russia or China.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/philippines-president-duterte-orders-us-forces-out-after-65-years-do-not-treat-us-like-doormat-1585434

"This year would be the last," Duterte said according to The Guardian on Friday (7 October) in the southern city of Davao. "For as long as I am there, do not treat us like a doormat because you'll be sorry for it. I will not speak with you. I can always go to China."
Lorenzana said that he would ask the Philippines Congress for $50m (£40m) to $100m a year to compensate for a hole in US military aid and said the country may contact Russia or China for new equipment.
"We have been allies since 1951," he said according to The Times. "All we got are hand-me-downs, no new equipment. The Americans failed to beef up our capabilities to be at par with what is happening in the region."