The Marriage of Microsoft and Linux

[HW3]

Wim Coekaerts, corporate VP of Microsoft Enterprise Open Source Group, came to LinuxCon preaching enable, integrate, release, and contribute instead of embrace, extend, and extinguish.

http://www.zdnet.com/article/the-marriage-of-microsoft-and-linux/?linkId=27997694

[Skybird]

Good riddance from here right into hell, Sir. I did not take all this Linux testing, installing, buying onto me just to see how Microsoft now infiltrates, infests, erodes and sinks it, too. I did all this to never be touched by Microsoft again in my life. They are not about a better world, but about destroying a very unwanted rival, and potential risk to their treacherous ways. I hope the Linux community has its brains together and refuses this poisonous advertising by Microsoft. Microsofts vision for the future is not good and noble. Its Microsoft Above All and Everything, At All Costs.

If you accept an invitation to dance with the devil, expect a hot dance with him setting the pace.

"A year ago I would not have considered working for Microsoft, but Microsoft has changed."
Oh yes, Sir, it has. Very. Customer-oriented, it later says? That had me laughing my dinner on my brandnew notebook screen. Maybe business big fish. Private users can hardly even grin about it anymore, not after the past 12-18 months.

[Rockin Robbins]

There is no marriage. Microsoft and Linux are not equals at all. The Linux community hates everything Microsoft stands for and for very good reason. Microsoft drones can preach all they want but Microsoft's only mode of operation is, has been and will ever be embrace, extend, and extinguish.

They do not work for the computer user. They exploit the computer user. There is a place for some commercial aspects within the Linux umbrella. But Microsoft is not one that will be accepted.

We use Linux because it is an alternative to the evil empire. We will have no relations with a company which redefines close window buttons into "slime me with the malware which is Windows 10" button. We will have no relations with a company which several times a day invades our systems and resets our user preferences to allow our property to be invaded by malware. We will have no part of a company which believes that the primary purposes of an operating system are to serve you advertisements and harvest your personal information without your knowledge or consent.

Microsoft drones can attend Linux conferences and sing Kumbaya all they want and we will still reject them and all they stand for. Microsoft declared war on us long before we knew there was a war. We've fought them on our Windows machines for eighteen months and won. This war will end with Microsoft's dead body. Nobody will miss them.

[GT182]

Well one thing is for sure. MS is slowly killing it's own self.

But I've been told Mac is also doing the same to it's own self.

[STEED]

Power always corrupts, you get so big you think you can get away with it and a lot of the time you do. Microsoft has well and truly damaged itself but if you don't follow these on going news items you will view Microsoft as the Bee's knee's and will not stand for mud slinging.

Until these folks wake up Microsoft is going to get away with it. Personally I like to see those responsible for their crimes thrown in prison.

[Commander Wallace]

I'm sure everyone has had issues with Microsoft at one point or another. The question I have is, can Linux work with the silent hunter series and other sims or do we have to accept the fact that we have to use windows ?

[Ashikaga]

The only reason I never went into Linux and for instance Ubuntu was that it takes way too much work for what I want with a computer.

Upgrading and adding programs to me was so damn difficult that I got rid of it quite quickly.

Not that I like Microsoft at all, but well. I prefer ease over hassle. Even though Microsoft does give people a lot of hassle. And since I am a trial and error guy I messed up a lot of versions of Windows. HAHAHAHAHA.

[Catfish]

Well MS will not sink Linux/Unix because 98 percent of the net runs on Linux, it is only companies/corporations connected via that net and its Linux servers, that use MS (which also stands for multiple sklerosis, of course) in their LAN. WAN is almost entirely Linux.
Apple's proprietary OS/X is also based on Linux, just stolen and changed to a degree that you cannot use it for free.

The reason i have MS on my system is games. As soon as they offer a real range of sims for Linux... if MS continues with its XBox they will bury their own grave.

[Ashikaga]

Has anyone of you heard about that ridiculous idea by the EU to tax hyperlinks ?




.

[Catfish]

Has anyone of you heard about that ridiculous idea by the EU to tax hyperlinks ?.

Why not? I have long since abandoned any hope for a government to make sense, be it taxes or politics.

France had a windows tax during the time of Napoleon, this is why most houses of the time have only windows to the backyard. Those with a front to the street were taxed.

In Germany you still pay taxes for Willliam 2nd's battle fleet, if you buy sparkling wine, in 2016.

During the airlift to help Berlin after WW2 in Gremany there was a tax introduced for paying that, declared as vehicle tax. This tax was already being paid with taxes on fuel before, but it was added and we still pay that.


I think the governments should not care about making sense at all any more when introducing taxes, no one blieves them anyway. Why not a soap bubble tax. Those who have it pay because they have, those who don't have it pay for it because they don't have it.
It's so easy.

[Skybird]

The two big problems with Linux, even Mint, are the software compatability thing, both in business and in private (games), which will not solve itself when people always just complain - but then again chose with their wallet to fiance Mcrosoft. Why should a company choose to develope for Linux if it sees people paying money for stuff done under Windows, and under Windows development can be had for a cheaper price and with less risk? The othe rreason ist that even an advanced GUI like Mint does not go all the way, but stops in the middle. You sooner or later run into the need to operate via Terminal - DOS, that is, so to speak, and that is so very backwardly and one thing it is not: intuitive and ergonomic. This is studying needed to be done, like you needed to study and learn DOS - 30 years ago. You need to be an expert under Linux as long as you do not have an administrator working for you. Much under Linux needs to be done via an interface of a standard that was used by us kids at school 35 years ago. In this regard, ergonomics, Linux is still quite primitive and Windows is superior. Linux is nice once all your system is tuned like you want it to be, then you can run your software via GUI. But beware if you need to do soething that is no on the daily card! Or set an option the GUI does not know of. You ask the wizards hen and copy-paste magical spells you do not understand.

To me, this is the biggest failure of the many Linux developers there are. So many different banches, so many different forks, when a team does not like the graphics of icons in one set they used for their fork or distribution, the immediately start to invent a new development strain and a new Linux branch. But none of them, not a single one, ever cared to develope a GUI systematically to the end so that you can tune your system and software options to your likings and handle system resources in a way that you do not need to leave the GUI.

This superioity of Windows is undenuiable, and total. Its a great failure of Linux that they develope so many branches - but not a single GUI consequently to the end.

And I think these two things are the major two things that keep people away fromLinux. Since 20 years. Does anyone elarnthe lesson from it, amongst Linux developers? Not really.

And mybe they want it like that, I learned that they are a very helpful, but also very elitist a circle at the forums. Extremely easy to trip their wires when saying something critical about Linux, even if it is true. Linux is holy, almost untouchable. I need these people, and many of them are very helpful, to make that clear - but I feel I abuse them by indeed leaving it only to factual problems and letting them solve them for me, not using any unnecessary word anymore. Got burnt several times the past 6 months.
I recommend, still, my way: use two systems, if yu are just an oridnary usual user with no need to run any special Windows-only special software. One no-updating Windows system for game laucnhing, and another with Linux Mint for EVERYTHING else.

I meanwhile learned that a VM is not an all-cures-in-one, it comes at its own risks for your system. Do ot underestimate what it means in security loss if you run a full Windows installation under Linux, even if it is a VM only. This Windows nevertheless exposes your system to the same risks a pure Windows mahcine would do. And at least you can distribute and spread Windows malware via your Linux system that way. If you exchnage data via for exmaple USB stick with another Windows system, or ar elinked in a network to Windows systems, the concerns are even greater.

Same goes for Wine. Running Wine under Linux is NOT recommended from a scurity point of view.

Keep things physically disconnected and separate from each other. What they need to consider regarding hygiencis in a hospital, is true for digital infections in the comouter world as well.

Maybe that is good. that there are so many kinds of Linuxes :) and so few users, are two reaosns why it is so safe an environment, at least safer than Windows, Chrome, Mac or Android.

[Commander Wallace]

I found this and thought it might be helpful to people using various versions on Linux and having to compromise using a multi boot format of Linux and windows to play their games.

This article suggests that you can play silent hunter with Linux Wine.

https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=5618


HOWTO - Running Silent Hunter 3 with Wine

The game itself works, but some care must be taken during instalaltion in order to get it working correctly.
Note and disclaimer:
This has been tested only with Silent Hunter 3 - EMEA DVD edition - version 1.4b. Please contact me for your success regarding the US or the downlaod editions of this game.
First step: Install the game.
This is easy: push the DVD in and run "wine setup.exe". Install all the options including Directx9 video codecs and Acrobat Reader 7 (this one might be left out if you have space concerns). Installation will run swiftly and complete in a few minutes with no assle. I suggest not to install the GameShadow crap since you will not need it.
Run wineboot to reboot windows, but DO NOT RUN THE GAME YET!
Second step: Patch the game to 1.4b
Go to the Ubisoft Silent Hunter 3 homepage (see link in game description) and download the right patch for you. I have tested only the EMEA DVD 1.4b patch. The download is about 20MB and could take a while, but once you have it simply unzip and run it with wine. The patch will locate your installation and patch it to the latest (1.4b) version.
Run wineboot to reboot windows, but DO NOT RUN THE GAME YET!!
Third step: apply a NO-CD crack to the game
No, i am not suggesting to illegally play this game, nor i am suggesting to pursue any illegal or unethic behaviour. If this step is illegal in your country or if you believe it to be unethical, please stop here and forget about running Silent Hunter 3 under wine.
Unfortunately, Ubisoft has choosen a copy protection mechanism for their game that is NOT supported by wine at the moment. So, even if you own an original version of the game you must find, download and apply a NO-CD (or better NO-DVD in this case) patch. I am not giving you any direct link to any potential illegal stuff, unzip it and put all the enclosed files (some dlls and one exe) on the game directory replacing the original provided ones. I strongly suggest backing up the existing one first.
Run wineboot to reboot windows, but DO NOT RUN THE GAME YET!!
Last step: Now run the game!
Either run wine sh3.exe from the game directory or use the Start Menu shortcut, the loading screen might take some time, then the menu page will show up and... Good Luck!

Note: if "xrandr | grep 1024x" does not report 50.0 Hz as an option

(for example: " 1024x768 75.0 70.0 60.0 " )

you must fiddle with your X config until it does report 50 Hz, or apply this patch to get the game running.

Please report any success story for other editions than the EMEA DVD!



I hope you all find this helpful. :sunny:

[Rockin Robbins]

The only reason I never went into Linux and for instance Ubuntu was that it takes way too much work for what I want with a computer.

Upgrading and adding programs to me was so damn difficult that I got rid of it quite quickly.

Not that I like Microsoft at all, but well. I prefer ease over hassle. Even though Microsoft does give people a lot of hassle. And since I am a trial and error guy I messed up a lot of versions of Windows. HAHAHAHAHA.
Holy crap Ashikaga! It's a hassle to start up your machine, Update starts automatically, says "you have xx operating system updates and xx program updates" and you have a proceed button. When you push it, not only the operating sytem BUT EVERY SINGLE PROGRAM ON YOUR MACHINE is updated in the background while you proceed with whatever you want to do. Where's the "hassle?" Finding the freaking proceed button?

Adding programs. You have a single repository where just about every Linux program is vetted, certified virus free and completely updated. Start up one of many package managers, my favorite is Synaptic Package Manager, and you can find anything from the same place. And you are not restricted to repositories. If you want to download programs the risky Windows way by going to a website you are able to do that too.

If it's too much work to find a proceed button I suggest you use a cell phone. Oh yeah, Android is a derivative of Linux.

I picked up Linux by trial and terror too. It's great. Windows copied just enough from Linux that its operating system barely works in a kind of warped and perverted way. But the pure experience is way ahead of Windows.

Especially the easy way that Linux updates both operating system and every program on your machine with a single button push ("too much hassle!!!") is so far ahead of Windows that statements about too much hassle are ludicrous.

[Rockin Robbins]

I found this and thought it might be helpful to people using various versions on Linux and having to compromise using a multi boot format of Linux and windows to play their games.

This article suggests that you can play silent hunter with Linux Wine.

https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=5618


HOWTO - Running Silent Hunter 3 with Wine

The game itself works, but some care must be taken during instalaltion in order to get it working correctly.
Note and disclaimer:
This has been tested only with Silent Hunter 3 - EMEA DVD edition - version 1.4b. Please contact me for your success regarding the US or the downlaod editions of this game.
First step: Install the game.
This is easy: push the DVD in and run "wine setup.exe". Install all the options including Directx9 video codecs and Acrobat Reader 7 (this one might be left out if you have space concerns). Installation will run swiftly and complete in a few minutes with no assle. I suggest not to install the GameShadow crap since you will not need it.
Run wineboot to reboot windows, but DO NOT RUN THE GAME YET!
Second step: Patch the game to 1.4b
Go to the Ubisoft Silent Hunter 3 homepage (see link in game description) and download the right patch for you. I have tested only the EMEA DVD 1.4b patch. The download is about 20MB and could take a while, but once you have it simply unzip and run it with wine. The patch will locate your installation and patch it to the latest (1.4b) version.
Run wineboot to reboot windows, but DO NOT RUN THE GAME YET!!
Third step: apply a NO-CD crack to the game
No, i am not suggesting to illegally play this game, nor i am suggesting to pursue any illegal or unethic behaviour. If this step is illegal in your country or if you believe it to be unethical, please stop here and forget about running Silent Hunter 3 under wine.
Unfortunately, Ubisoft has choosen a copy protection mechanism for their game that is NOT supported by wine at the moment. So, even if you own an original version of the game you must find, download and apply a NO-CD (or better NO-DVD in this case) patch. I am not giving you any direct link to any potential illegal stuff, unzip it and put all the enclosed files (some dlls and one exe) on the game directory replacing the original provided ones. I strongly suggest backing up the existing one first.
Run wineboot to reboot windows, but DO NOT RUN THE GAME YET!!
Last step: Now run the game!
Either run wine sh3.exe from the game directory or use the Start Menu shortcut, the loading screen might take some time, then the menu page will show up and... Good Luck!

Note: if "xrandr | grep 1024x" does not report 50.0 Hz as an option

(for example: " 1024x768 75.0 70.0 60.0 " )

you must fiddle with your X config until it does report 50 Hz, or apply this patch to get the game running.

Please report any success story for other editions than the EMEA DVD!



I hope you all find this helpful. :sunny:
https://youtu.be/ebE7BKVxymA

[Commander Wallace]

https://youtu.be/ebE7BKVxymA


Thanks for posting the link. I wasn't sure if the SH series and Linux were compatible given how many issues others have had including myself with SH and later versions of windows. :up:

[Ashikaga]

Hahahaha that cracked me up Commander Wallace !

While you are correct about that repository and updating in the background I just have to say that Ubuntu sucks. Well it did on my rig until I got rid of the entire operating system. But that was years ago. Never looked back.

:)

Ashikaga.

[Commander Wallace]

Hahahaha that cracked me up Commander Wallace !

While you are correct about that repository and updating in the background I just have to say that Ubuntu sucks. Well it did on my rig until I got rid of the entire operating system. But that was years ago. Never looked back.

:)

Ashikaga.

What cracks you up ?

Everyone has their likes and dislikes and choices regarding operating systems is probably no different. I don't think there is one system out there that everyone is going to like. The trick is to be able streamline things to their own likings. Most feel Microsoft works against the users best interests.

[Ashikaga]

This remark made me laugh.




If it's too much work to find a proceed button I suggest you use a cell phone. Oh yeah, Android is a derivative of Linux.

[Commander Wallace]

This remark made me laugh.

I hope if you do try Linux again, that it works out for you. Hopefully the issues you had were minor settling in adjustments. Maybe the newest versions of Linux will be more to your liking.

Best regards.

[Onkel Neal]

Holy crap Ashikaga! It's a hassle to start up your machine, Update starts automatically, says "you have xx operating system updates and xx program updates" and you have a proceed button. When you push it, not only the operating sytem BUT EVERY SINGLE PROGRAM ON YOUR MACHINE is updated in the background while you proceed with whatever you want to do. Where's the "hassle?" Finding the freaking proceed button?

Adding programs. You have a single repository where just about every Linux program is vetted, certified virus free and completely updated. Start up one of many package managers, my favorite is Synaptic Package Manager, and you can find anything from the same place. And you are not restricted to repositories. If you want to download programs the risky Windows way by going to a website you are able to do that too.


Especially the easy way that Linux updates both operating system and every program on your machine with a single button push ("too much hassle!!!") is so far ahead of Windows that statements about too much hassle are ludicrous.

When I try to install the RPMforge repository

rpm -Uvh http://pkgs.repoforge.org/rpmforge-release/rpmforge-release-0.5.3-1.el6.rf.x86_64.rpm


I am getting this error
curl: (7) couldn't connect to host
error: skipping http://pkgs.repoforge.org/rpmforge-release/rpmforge-release-0.5.3-1.el6.rf.x86_64.rpm - transfer failed



What do I need to do, Steve?

[Skybird]

Neal, best way for you is to find the dominating English Linux Mint forum and community website, and ask there. Do not be shy to ask in the Newbie section. If it is like with the main German Mint forum website, then you will be given good advise and the needed spells to cure your curse.

The major German website would be: http://www.linuxmintusers.de/

For English it cold be this one: https://forums.linuxmint.com/

[Onkel Neal]

Ok, thanks :up:

[Skybird]

It's proven advise - I need to make more use of that forum myself than I like. :haha:

[GT182]

I wonder if MS doing what they're doing is the cause from most gaming going to Steam. Steam isn't all that bad, but I'd rather install a game or sim and play it from my computer only. With Steam there are some games that you can't add updates, plug-in managers, other game improvements. You play on their terms not yours.

[Rockin Robbins]

Today I troubleshot the overly complicated setup procedure for Silent Hunter 4 under Ubuntu Linux. It was tough.
Place SH4 disk in drive. Find setup.exe on the disk with the file manager of your choice. I used Dolphin. Right-click setup.exe and choose "install with Wine."

Wait. It's installed. Slide the U-boat missions disk in there and do the same thing. Enter your serial number. Play.

But I went several steps further today. I copied JSGME, Large Memory Address Aware and all 3.8 GB of Fall of the Rising Sun Ultimate v0.25 beta. I installed MULTI-SH4, ran it successfully and created a second install for GFO.

It all just works. Just as easily as Windows. No command line terminal mumbo-jumbo, no screwing with configuration tweaks. It installed and ran identically to a Windows machine.

Except Ubuntu is not collecting unknown data that belongs to me, encrypting it and sending it to Microsoft twice a day at my expense. And it isn't using half the tiles in a facetiously named "start menu" to sell me things I won't buy.

The same program on Ubuntu tends to run twice as fast as it does in Windows on my machine.

Instead of serving sites that host a Windows system recovery .iso, the same one that can be created by any Windows user by themselves, with DMCA takedown demands Ubuntu encourages dozens of system recovery boot packages like RescaTux, which I used today. RescaTux can save your Windows system too when your forced upgrade locks up your machine and Microsoft leaves you completely stranded.

I'd say more but I'm taking off to play some FOTRS Ultimate on my cumbersome Linux system that created the mod yesterday.

[Rockin Robbins]

When I try to install the RPMforge repository

rpm -Uvh http://pkgs.repoforge.org/rpmforge-release/rpmforge-release-0.5.3-1.el6.rf.x86_64.rpmI am getting this error
curl: (7) couldn't connect to host
error: skipping http://pkgs.repoforge.org/rpmforge-release/rpmforge-release-0.5.3-1.el6.rf.x86_64.rpm - transfer failed
What do I need to do, Steve?
Hey Neal, I missed your post! Sorry.

Looks like you're using a Red Hat derivative like Fedora. I'm not an expert on that. Ubuntu has all that preinstalled and you just run it. Actually, it runs itself on startup and offers to update everything on your machine. Commander Wallace is our Fedora expert.

Once FOTRS Ultimate Edition has left the nest and we're just working on plugins, I look forward to doing a thread with Commander Wallace and others on a "Get acquainted with Linux" thread.

Seems like there should be a way to use the GUI, but one of the reasons I'm not using Fedora is that they're still stuck on the computer geek position that if you can't use the command line you don't deserve to use Linux. Ubuntu is much more GUI oriented. You CAN use the terminal but almost always have the opportunity to use a GUI solution.

To be fair, there is much in Windows that you must use a command window to accomplish. Even something so simple as copying a directory tree that has 10 layers and a couple hundred files can be copied three to ten times quicker in the command window using xcopy than it can in Windows Explorer, which totally chokes on the job.

Commander Wallace is your Fedora expert. When you see .rpm repository, that means a Red Hat derivative Linux distribution. I personally wouldn't recommend that for a person fresh from Windows. But that could be just because I'm not too familiar with it.

[Onkel Neal]

I think in the end I decided that repoforge was down, not responding. I tried several times to access the links via Windows just to see if I could d/l the file to no avail. I went another way with the Linux install and it worked.

[Rockin Robbins]

When I try to install the RPMforge repository

rpm -Uvh http://pkgs.repoforge.org/rpmforge-release/rpmforge-release-0.5.3-1.el6.rf.x86_64.rpmI am getting this error
curl: (7) couldn't connect to host
error: skipping http://pkgs.repoforge.org/rpmforge-release/rpmforge-release-0.5.3-1.el6.rf.x86_64.rpm - transfer failed
What do I need to do, Steve?
Let's do a little troubleshooting. Your errors say "couldn't connect to host" and "transfer failed." That could mean several things, but the #1 reason for that is that the web site specified couldn't be found. On your first line the web address starts with "http://pkgs.repoforge.org." Cut and paste that into the address bar of your browser and you'll get "Problem loading page" blah, blah, blah, which means there's no website to be found with that address.

The achilles heel of the terminal is that it is literally literal! Typos are severely punished and every single character must be accurate. It's like typing URLs into your web browser. Nobody does that. Why? Because it's impossible to type "http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=2430652" accurately more than two times in ten attempts.

There's something wrong with the web address in your terminal command that prevented you from accessing the site you wanted to reach.

Repoforge hasn't been updated in awhile, but repoforge.org does work. Going to the "Using Repoforge (http://repoforge.org/use/)" page you find
Using RepoForge

First download the appropriate rpmforge-release package for your distribution:


EL 7: x86_64 (http://pkgs.repoforge.org/rpmforge-release/rpmforge-release-0.5.3-1.el7.rf.x86_64.rpm)
EL 6: i686 (http://pkgs.repoforge.org/rpmforge-release/rpmforge-release-0.5.3-1.el6.rf.i686.rpm), x86_64 (http://pkgs.repoforge.org/rpmforge-release/rpmforge-release-0.5.3-1.el6.rf.x86_64.rpm)
EL 5: i386 (http://pkgs.repoforge.org/rpmforge-release/rpmforge-release-0.5.3-1.el5.rf.i386.rpm), x86_64 (http://pkgs.repoforge.org/rpmforge-release/rpmforge-release-0.5.3-1.el5.rf.x86_64.rpm), ppc (http://pkgs.repoforge.org/rpmforge-release/rpmforge-release-0.5.1-1.el5.rf.ppc.rpm)
EL 4: i386 (http://pkgs.repoforge.org/rpmforge-release/rpmforge-release-0.5.3-1.el4.rf.i386.rpm), x86_64 (http://pkgs.repoforge.org/rpmforge-release/rpmforge-release-0.5.3-1.el4.rf.x86_64.rpm), ppc (http://pkgs.repoforge.org/rpmforge-release/rpmforge-release-0.5.1-1.el4.rf.ppc.rpm)
EL 3: i386 (http://pkgs.repoforge.org/rpmforge-release/rpmforge-release-0.5.3-1.el3.rf.i386.rpm), x86_64 (http://pkgs.repoforge.org/rpmforge-release/rpmforge-release-0.5.3-1.el3.rf.x86_64.rpm)

Then you can use rpm or yum to install the downloaded package. The package installation will enable the RepoForge repo for subsequent use via yum.
More detailed instructions and recommendations are available on the CentOS wiki (http://wiki.centos.org/AdditionalResources/Repositories/RPMForge).
Hints:


Use cat /etc/redhat-release to find which release of EL you are using
Use uname -a to find your processor architecture
Use rpm -ivh package-filename to install the rpmforge-release package (also works with URLs)
You can use wget or curl to download the package using one of the above links if needed (for example on a server with no X Window)
Then you can use yum to install the available packages from the RepoForge repo, e.g. yum install --enablerepo=rpmforge-extras`
Afterward, you can disable accidental updates from the repo by setting enabled = 0 in the repo definition file in /etc/yum.repos.d/



And I clicked on one of the links. The repositories aren't available! The links are dead.

[Rockin Robbins]

This remark made me laugh.
Yup, another great plan bites the dust!:har:

[BarracudaUAK]

... Actually, it runs itself on startup and offers to update everything on your machine. Commander Wallace is our Fedora expert.


Seems like there should be a way to use the GUI, but one of the reasons I'm not using Fedora is that they're still stuck on the computer geek position that if you can't use the command line you don't deserve to use Linux.
...


There is an update program in Fedora (KDE has "Apper") which uses the GUI to update everything... and I mean EVERYTHING. (which is currently in my taskbar showing me that I have updates... nope, all my Windows & Linux games (except 2) work at the moment, I want to keep it that way!)

It will update all the programs unless you specifically de-select an option.

Using the "Geeky Elitest" command line terminal (that only "deserving" Linux users know how to use :D:haha::har:) you can use "dnf" (formerly yum) and update everything EXCEPT whatever you added to the "exclude" list in the config file.
(Sorry RR, but you give me so much "ammo" I can't resist!:D:up:)


I've had Fedora on older HDDs, or dual booted since Fedora Core 3.
I've used too many different OSs and modded too many games, and coded way too much to be slowed down by a GUI.
However until I figured out all the changes, I did use the GUI interface for settings for the first several months when I switched over to using exclusively Linux. When in unfamiliar territory, having a "map" is very helpful. I don't fault anyone for using a GUI, but some times, I want the PC to do something specific.


But I used DOS first. I am VERY comfortable with a Command Line Interface.
For me a .txt config file is preferred because I can "search", then "edit" then save and go about my buisiness. Messing with a GUI that someone wants to change every 2 versions is more time than it is worth, FOR ME. (EXAMPLE: Windows, every other version thereof.)


I tried Ubuntu, but Unity REALLY didn't 'jive' with me. I REALLY HATE a full screen menu (see: android, Ios, WIndows 8/8.1/10), which I think KDE had in Fedora 16. (not sure which KDE version it was.)
(I liked GNOME's simple interface (circa Redhat9) way back when, but I could NEVER find the "config" in the menu, KDE it was there. So I switched.)

Fedora is not perfect, but it does flow well with me, since I like to set up EVERYTHING the way I want it.
There are some things that I have to change, but mostly I'm setting it up each time I install a new version, but it does keep me using the commands, and remembering where things are, and how they work, etc.

Barracuda

P.S. I forgot to mention this but, LINUX is the Kernel, it is the "Command Line". The GUI is built on top of that, so unless the 'Desktop' has gone through and made a Graphical interface for each and every program running on Linux, then some things will REQUIRE the use of the CL. Depending on how they interface with the desktop and program, they might not work with all desktops. I've had it happen before.
(Now I am running "Gnome Disk Utility" in KDE, and it works. But I've had several different versions of Fedora and a few other Distros, like, Knoppix, that the desktops were in a "transitional" phase, so using some programs designed for GNOME, etc, in KDE, didn't want to work.)

P.P.S. This had nothing to do with the OP, or M$.... hmm. I must be getting easily distractable... oh look! a squirel!

[Rockin Robbins]

P.S. I forgot to mention this but, LINUX is the Kernel, it is the "Command Line". The GUI is built on top of that, so unless the 'Desktop' has gone through and made a Graphical interface for each and every program running on Linux, then some things will REQUIRE the use of the CL. Depending on how they interface with the desktop and program, they might not work with all desktops. I've had it happen before.
(Now I am running "Gnome Disk Utility" in KDE, and it works. But I've had several different versions of Fedora and a few other Distros, like, Knoppix, that the desktops were in a "transitional" phase, so using some programs designed for GNOME, etc, in KDE, didn't want to work.)

P.P.S. This had nothing to do with the OP, or M$.... hmm. I must be getting easily distractable... oh look! a squirel!

And that is where Windows went wrong. Having the command line as a base meant first of all that the command line would be healthy and robust, unlike the shriveled remains of DOS still barely breathing in the Windows Command Window. The Linux terminal is the Holy Temple of Linux, the place from which all blessings flow, the ultimate storehouse of the power that is within the operating system.

That means that you can choose your GUI. It means you can choose your file manager. It means you can choose your browser without restriction. It means a lot more freedom and a lot more possibilities for getting things done. It means that the difference between Fedora and Ubuntu is totally unimportant, as it's possible to install all the programs that make Ubuntu Ubuntu into Fedora and versa vica.

It's the reason Unity is a decent GUI now. People who didn't like it could change to something else in sixty seconds. And they could go back in 60 seconds. I have Unity, Lubuntu, LXDE, OpenBox, KDE Plasma, MATE, GNOME and others all able to be switched to in much less than a minute. Lately Ive kind of settled on Unity. It's come a vast distance since it was so terrible. Why? With the others to take up the slack, it took the pressure off Unity. They were free to innovate.

When Windows sucks (and it does) there are no alternatives but live with it or leave Windows entirely. That will never be the case with Linux.

[BarracudaUAK]

... I have Unity, Lubuntu, LXDE, OpenBox, KDE Plasma, MATE, GNOME and others all able to be switched to in much less than a minute.

I used to keep 2 or 3 installed, but now...

I'm currently running FGLRX video drivers so that Crossfire will work.
Unfortunately, FGLRX was configured to set-up for the primary Desktop, and it wasn't too friendly with some of them.

Until the AMDGPU kernel-side driver gets settled and the AMDGPU-PRO driver get released for Redhat/Fedora, I'm going to stick with just KDE for now.

Ohh, and so my post can be more or less on topic...

Did you know that there is a DRM in Linux?
It's the Direct Rendering Manager:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_Rendering_Manager

https://dri.freedesktop.org/wiki/DRM/

3 little letters can mean so many different things...

Of course if you ask me this question in a week and I'm not looking at my PC, I'll probably won't remember what it is. As I know I've looked it up at least 3 times in the last 2 years. :nope::hmmm:

Barracuda

[Skybird]

I just would wish that after two decades any Linux GUI finally would decide to go all the way instead of stoppig halfway, turn to the side and disappear between the bushes and trees, leaving the ordinary user behind and alone.

Cinnamon/Mint is probably the most advanced GUI for Linux - but even this can have you ending up with a need to face Terminal quite easily.

And if you are no holy priest, you do not find the entrance to this "temple" then. You end up pöaste-andcopying magicla spoeels you get form others without you knowing what you are doing there, and why. And you can end up in even deeper trouble that way.

This way, every user who was just a user under Windows, again needs to bcome a professional insider like 30 years ago. This expectation is unrealistic. In business. Amongst most gamers. In private households.

I think this is the one most dominant reason that will prevent Linux for another 20 years to keep up with Windows, Android, iOS. I mean since 20 years I get told how great Linux is and that it is about to take over. But the market share it has with users still is clearly below the 2% mark.

Instead of always breaking loose another fork and an other variation, developers should really consider to sit together and work on going all the way. It would be a first under Linux. But as long as Terminal - or however the CLI is called in different Linux derivates - becomes a necessity to use it so often and easily as it now is the case - and I say that after beign with Linux for almost tne months now - , as long I see no realistic chance that Linux will taske major shares from Windows. Peoiple will or will not turn away from Windiws, due to the W10 mess. But for the most they will not move to Linux. They move towards Android, Chrome and iOS.

Don't get me wrong, I am still with Linux and like it, and recommend to switch Windows PCs to Linux. But i do not ignore the problems that also are there. Its not all rosy in Linux land.

[BarracudaUAK]

...

P.S. I forgot to mention this but, LINUX is the Kernel, it is the "Command Line". The GUI is built on top of that, so unless the 'Desktop' has gone through and made a Graphical interface for each and every program running on Linux, then some things will REQUIRE the use of the CL.
Depending on how they interface with the desktop and program, they might not work with all desktops.
...


I just would wish that after two decades any Linux GUI finally would decide to go all the way instead of stoppig halfway, turn to the side and disappear between the bushes and trees, leaving the ordinary user behind and alone.

Cinnamon/Mint is probably the most advanced GUI for Linux - but even this can have you ending up with a need to face Terminal quite easily.
...


Skybird,

I can sympathize with your feelings on this, however I feel I should bring something to your attention.

In Linux, work is never duplicated. You do not need to re-code something that has already been coded.

Think of it similar to Windows using dotnet, for example.
Let's take S3D as our example program. In order to run S3D, we need to have dotnet 2.0 installed. Why? Because some of the code necessary to allow S3D to do what it does, is contained in dotnet, and this is referenced by S3D.

This allows S3D, and other programs to all access the same "code" and therefore be smaller.
Let's assume we make some new mod tools for the SH series.
We will call them:
Silent Hunter Editor, "SH-E" for Silent Hunter,
SH-E2, for Silent Hunter 2,
and so-on and so forth, so we have SH-E, SH-E2, SH-E3, SH-E4, and lastly, SH-E5.

Now if we assume that the base code is 10MB, and the databases for each game is 10MB, and the graphical interface is 5MB each.

Then each editor comes to 25MB. If we have all 5 installed, then we have 125MB of hard drive space used...

Now if we use a common "base", 10MB, and we use a common graphical interface, which includes all variations, it would be larger, about 7.5MB.

So to RUN, and USE, the editors, we have only used 17.5MB of space on the drive.
Now we have 50MB of database files, 10 for each of the 5 editors.


10MB base files,
7.5MB GUI files,
+50MB database files,
67.5MB total.

So we have just saved 57.5MB of hard drive space by NOT duplicating work.
This is what Linux does from the kernel all the way down to the widgets on your desktop telling you how much RAM you have used.

This is why MANY things in Linux do not have a GUI version. At most it will be a Graphical "front-end" for the non-graphical "back-end" program.

Check the update/install program for your distro, it probably has graphical interfaces for command line programs. Fedora has MANY of them listed. I'm sure Ubuntu/Mint will as well.

One of my biggest complaints with all windows versions, was that for a little bit of "polish" the install size jumped, for example 300MB for Win98, to ~2GB for WinXP.

When you install a new program from the package manager (forget what it is in Cinamon), notice that it tells you what "dependancies" that the program has. And asks for permission to install these.
The 'dependancies' are because the program lacks the data.

Best example I can give is this: I installed a server version of Fedora 24. No GUI, but I needed to keep the RAID 0 intact so I could copy the files to another drive.
so I installed KDE, and then tried to run it.
This FAILED MISERABLY. :yep:
Why? Because I forgot to install "X" so KDE has something to actually draw the GUI with.

This is why RR mentioned in one of the threads around here, that in a few seconds he can swap desktops.

"X" takes care of the "how to draw", the desktop takes care of the "what to draw".
No duplicating. Much less "mess".

Barracuda

P.S. As far as the need to be an expert on using Linux... Look at the bright side, learning new things help keep "some-timers" from turning into "old-timers" and eventually "all-timers"!

[Skybird]

Your explanation depicts, in more detail, what I already believed to have understood. And I cannot argue with it. However, using Cinnamon, which is probbaly the most advanced Linux GUI out there, my point was slightly different. That is that if you come to Linux, and use Mint and Cinnamon, you may get greeted by this GUI and think "Oh, nice, easy, all is easy going", but that all too easily oyu may run into issues, problems, things you want or need to do, where you enter ground no longer covered by this GUI. Then its Terminal time. And that is a problem. Most users do not want to understand - thus: learn and study - DOS just to operate Windows. And it should not even be expected and needed that ordinary users have such deep-rooting knowledge - and learning a CLI language and syntax IS studying.

You do not want to need to become a mechanic just to drive your car. You want to be a driver, not a mechanic. A user, and most of us: just that, not more.

And I think here is the reason, one of the two major reasons (the other is software comoatability and the dominance Windows has here), why Linux never really got out of the starting block when comeeting against Windows for private end users market shares.

Finally, I am quite good at Windows, status version 7, now. But this knoweldge and experience got colected over almost two decades of using it, and for sim-tuning doing quite some non-rutine background tweaking. You cnanot learn such things from a book, reading it once and then you are there. Its more an experience than learning thing. Or learning by doing. A good modern OS-GUI should cut that short. Thats why many of us find it unproblematic to switch to iOS, to Android. We get a device, and intuitively navigate the unknwon waters and learn how things are to be done.

That is possible with Linux only as far as the GUI guides you. And when the GUI's reahc end, then you are all of a sudden in pitch-black darkness. Like Windows 95 22 years ago, which had a fully-fledged CLI-based DOS-interface still installed. And remmeber: back then Windows was in a state so that DOS still was needed not rarely. Not to mention that it did many things much faster.

[Moonlight]

This^ is what is putting me off Linux cinnamon, I started with ms dos and upgraded to win 95 and now I'm using win 7, I'm not going to take a step backwards and re-learn console commands all over again.
When this Win7 operating system has reached its sell by date my time on the internet will be over, it was great while it lasted but MS has stepped over the line with Win 10 and its privacy data theft, goodbye Microsoft and good riddance.
ML

[Rockin Robbins]

I hate to burst everyone's bubble, but there is plenty of ground that is not covered by Windows GUI. We'll get to that in a minute.

But first, Linux Mint is not a GUI. Linux Mint can use the entire family of GUIs that any Linux can use. Mint was the first Ubuntu derivative to use the MATE desktop, and MATE is nothing but an implementation of something that resembles the GNOME 2 desktop as faithfully as it can. It is NOT advanced, it is a 2006 GUI. It is built on the precept of organizing an operating system by the use of a menu tree. It works very well, but not better than LXDE or GNOME 2 or Lubuntu or XFCE or Cinnamon, all adaptations of the original GNOME 2 concept: menu based operating systems. They work well. They are not advanced. They are old fashioned and I like 'em that way.

If you want an advanced system you want KDE Plasma. Now THAT's an advanced GUI. It looks incredible. It works well, although there's a little paradigm warp you have to get your brain to conform to. When someone sees you running a computer with KDE Plasma they say WOW! What's that? KDE might be ahead of the curve right now with wow factor actually ahead of its efficiency but who cares?

GNOME 3 is also a beautiful GUI, set up like a smart phone before there ever WERE smart phones. Fabulous looking icons, lots of sorting and filtering options: it is what Windows 8, 8.1 and 10 copied just enough to be barely functional about and twice as much again. GNOME 3 is what Windows wants to be when and if it grows up.

Then there's Canonical's Unity, the GUI that everybody loved to hate. Canonical is the publisher of Ubuntu, and they wanted a GUI all their own, which no Linux distro really has or had. And when it first came out it was an ugly unmitigated disaster. That's where Mint, Peppermint, Elementary OS and a host of other Ubuntu derivatives came from: Unity hate. But you can install any GUI in Ubuntu, so who cares?

Why have a lesser derivative, like Mint, when you can have the much better supported Ubuntu and install the GUI of your choice. Mint without the Ubuntu repositories is trash. What makes the Ubuntu derivatives great is their ability to use the Ubuntu and Debian repositories, the largest, most comprehensive and best policed and maintained software repositories in the world.

So Ubuntu chooses the Nautilus file manager. KDE in any distribution normally uses Dolphin. LXDE uses the PCMan File Manager. OpenBox uses Thunar. I like 'em all. There are lots of them and people define their Linux distribution partly by which file manager they picked. Who cares? I can use any file manager in any distribution!

Same with web browser, text editor, screen compositor, sound system, every aspect of the operating system is just a software choice. You are ALWAYS free to make your own choices. Linux is all about freedom to make choices and that makes arguments about which distribution you run a bit silly.

But let's blow the lid off Windows GUI being all inclusive. It is no more inclusive than Linux GUIs and maybe less so. Lets take something as simple as copying a directory tree. Windows falls down and can't get up. I was copying a directory tree for a Minecraft save from Windows to Ubuntu with Windows Explorer. The tree goes dozens of layers deep and has dozens of files per directory. Windows file manager takes many hours to copy about 40 megabytes because it chokes on the directory tree. The only solution is either to boot up Linux or go the the command window and do an xcopy function from the command line. What takes many hours in Windows happens in fifteen minutes from the command line.

That's only a simple example. Most registration changes are command line operations that can't be done from the GUI. At best you make your script in Notebook and then execute the script on the command line. This fantasy that Windows GUI is all inclusive is just silly. Can you write a GUI shell for anything you want to do on the command line? Sure. For Windows and Linux that is true.

But at least in Linux, there is an underlying process that can be understood and manipulated. You aren't stuck using an opaque GUI that gives you no idea what is going on. Let me illustrate.

A friend of mine at work brought in his laptop with Windows 7 on it. It was slow as can be and he was about to drop it off a cliff but cliffs are illegal in Florida so he brought it to me. I asked him what he did with the computer and when he said browsed the web, listened to music, e-mail and forums I told him he was a perfect candidate for Linux.

So I wiped his system clean, divided it in two and gave him an Ubuntu/Windows dual installation with GRUB bootup to choose between the two operating systems. First boot into Ubuntu. Ubuntu tells you in text on screen every step it does during the boot process and the first line told all: Computer running too hot, throttling CPU. Bingo! His computer didn't run slow because it was full of malware, it was running hot and the CPU was protecting itself! Windows didn't say crap about it. To be fair, we could have installed software that would have sniffed that one out.

But Ubuntu told him before the operating system was even started! It was as simple matter to double the speed of his machine. He was totally sold on Linux in 20 seconds, on the first boot before the operating system was even running.

Why? The command line, which is always underpinning whatever GUI you are running. Windows ran from that and we can trace the atrophy of Windows from the elimination of DOS. When somebody brings a Windows computer to me with problems the first thing I do is plug in a Linux Live CD and find out what the story is. It's that superior.

With Windows you run the aptly named Wizard and it works or not. With Linux you run the diagnostic/repair program and it tells you what is wrong, what it proposes to do and you choose. Windows System Repair disk is a cruel joke that keeps you in the dark and feeds you stuff that comes out the back end of cows. "The system may reboot several times while the repair is in process. If the repair works you can restart your system normally after that." And you'll never know the first thing the repair routine tried to do so you can figure out something else if it doesn't work. That because it is the GUI which is the black box, not the command line. You are afraid of the wrong thing.

[BarracudaUAK]

...

If you want an advanced system you want KDE Plasma. Now THAT's an advanced GUI. It looks incredible.
...

I was going to mention this earlier, but got a phone call and had to make a trip to the ER for someone I know. All is well now...

KDE has a lot of "Polish", "back in the day", I know a few that didn't have enough memory to run it. It can put a bit of strain on lower end PCs.
I'm using 1.2GB of RAM for KDE, a few widgets (cpu/ram/network), and firefox open for subsim...
I've been using KDE regularly for my Linux installs since I was using an AMD 2500xp with 1GB ram, and a 256MB video card...
Other desktops can run quicker on the same hardware, but I personally like KDE.
I feel completely "un-windows-ified" when using it.

I haven't liked Windows for a long time. Win98 was the last one I "liked". And even that one I had to patch together all the time. I had, for a while, a triple boot setup. 98/XP/Fedora. XP for the (then) newer games, 98 to fix XP, and Linux to run all the free software (such as 3d modeling programs like blender) that I couldn't afford for Windows (3ds max, etc). And finally to fix both 98 and XP when they messed up.




...
It works well,
...


I agree.
There have been a few problems with the switch to KDE 5 from 4 (fedora 20 had KDE4, 23/24 have KDE5), but mostly trouble free.
I've only had a "major" issue twice. And that is with Fedora 24, but I simply rebooted and all was fine. (The Windows Manager crashed, but I am running Xorg 1.17 for FGLRX, not the 1.18 that is packaged with the .iso. So that may be the cause.)

But That usually occurs when I try to ALT-TAB from a game like SH4... Not exactly recommended in windows either....:hmmm:


although there's a little paradigm warp you have to get your brain to conform to.
...

I never noticed any "warpage".... then again, maybe it's because I'm already "warped".:haha::O:



...
When someone sees you running a computer with KDE Plasma they say WOW! What's that? KDE might be ahead of the curve right now with wow factor actually ahead of its efficiency but who cares?
...

Several times over the last 10 years I've shown people KDE, and they have asked:
"Is that the new windows?"
I reply "no that's KDE."
"KDE?"
"Yes, KDE, it runs on Linux. And, this version is from 3 years ago. I just keep it here to run these programs *points to programs* for modding my games."
"Will this run on my computer?"
"yep."

I showed someone Fedora 16 with KDE, in the begining of 2014, and they thought it was Win8.1, but they wanted to know what I did to get my Win8.1 to look like that.
That's when I dropped another "it's from 2 years ago" comment.
They didn't believe me, so I showed then the Fedora website, 19 was out, and I think 20 was nearing release...


...

Same with web browser, text editor, screen compositor, sound system, every aspect of the operating system is just a software choice. You are ALWAYS free to make your own choices. Linux is all about freedom to make choices and that makes arguments about which distribution you run a bit silly.
...

The only "distro" argument I would make would be depending on two things:
1: How old is the hardware you are trying to run it on?
And,
2: How often do you like to upgrade your OS?

Certain distros would support less "work", i.e. LTS versions meaning you don't have to worry about installing the new Version for continued updates.
Others would support newer hardware, and capabilities sooner.

Other than that, I've noticed that some distros are "geared" to newer users, others to those that prefer to "do it themselves".



Barracuda

[Skybird]

This^ is what is putting me off Linux cinnamon, I started with ms dos and upgraded to win 95 and now I'm using win 7, I'm not going to take a step backwards and re-learn console commands all over again.
When this Win7 operating system has reached its sell by date my time on the internet will be over, it was great while it lasted but MS has stepped over the line with Win 10 and its privacy data theft, goodbye Microsoft and good riddance.
ML
To be fair, the ordinary surfer and email writer, text editor, photo manipulator, is unlikely to hit troubles soon in Linux.

However, if you want to tailor your rig for for exmaple games, specially tune both to get best performance, then the Cinnamon GUI soon leaves you behind. Or to bind in hardware that is not automatically recognised.

Techncial nalfunctions also cna happen. They seem to happen not as frequently as under windows, which even has windows updates adding to these messes :( , but it cna happen, or may result from user fault.

I have had two or three such issues over this year. without forums tellling me which magical spells to use, I would have been hopelessly lost. NO WAY. Or yo start to study Linux like you needed to study DOS 25 years ago. And then collect some years of experience. And here is where the problem starts again.

Just to be understood correctly - I still recommend to switch over to Linux. I only say that while many things are better indeed, some things are worse. You need to forsee the chance for this to happen. For myself, I know that I will never know Lnux as good as I now know Wndows in various incarnations until W7. Its simply a time - and remaining years :) -, issue. Plus with 50 years you are no longer that hot for new tech stuff anymore like you were when you were 16, 20, 25. Yoo start to appreciate known routines and comfort over innovation. LOL

That I start gaming under Linux, I do not expect within the coming years, probably never in my lifespan. Too many of the sim titles I am after, do not and will never run under Linux. Trying to get them working in a VM has its own implicit complications, and also risks. Security risks also are involved with using WINE. Its not as easy going as it sounds at first description. I do not check out for no reason how Assetto Corsa for example runs on PS4, although I have it and a wheel for PC. I look for non-Linux altenratives to gaming on PC. Mobiles hardly can be the way :D, although there are some very good games out there indeed. But too few. With some other titles I am lost both on consoles or under Linux. Steel Beasts. FSX/P3D+PMDG. Things like that.

[Moonlight]

@Skybird and RR, I have a spare PC that's doing nothing at the moment, how's about giving us a tutorial on installing Linux and which one to use cinnamon etc.
I've looked at various websites and have come away even more confused than I started about which one I should be using, for those of us who are un-initiated about all things Linux it would be a god send. :up:

[Onkel Neal]

@Skybird and RR, I have a spare PC that's doing nothing at the moment, how's about giving us a tutorial on installing Linux and which one to use cinnamon etc.
I've looked at various websites and have come away even more confused than I started about which one I should be using, for those of us who are un-initiated about all things Linux it would be a god send. :up:

Subscribed!:Kaleun_Applaud:

[Skybird]

As a newcomer migrating from Windows, you may want to choose Linux Mint version 18.0 or version 17.3 - and Cinnamon. Mint-Cinnamon is your combo to go with as starter.

I can hardly do it better than this piece, have you guys tried this?

Installation Guide
http://www.wikihow.com/Install-Linux-Mint


Do it step by steps. One step, check it. Next step, check it. Find and download an ISO image, links below again. A software for making a CD or USB stick bootable, links below again. Burn ISO on it. Switch BIOS to "boot from USB stick/CD". Restart laptop, and it will launch in Linux, within seconds. You will see that almost all things go much faster under Linux.

Now test whether you like the new environment. Explore, and play around with it. Since the installation still is not on your HD, you hardly can do damage. If your laptop shows graphical artifacts, it may be that another graphics driver is needed, if so, come back and ask, and we see for it.

And again, these links for starters:

creating a bootable usb stick:
http://unetbootin.github.io/

downloading linux mint 18 iso:
https://linuxmint.com/download.php

I recommend the Cinnamon desktop.

international/English main forum for Mint:
https://forums.linuxmint.com/

German main forum for Mint:
http://www.linuxmintusers.de/index.p...7&action=forum (http://www.linuxmintusers.de/index.php?PHPSESSID=baf329203fdc183bcdf1ab100db7ff 77&action=forum)



Do not forget that if you websurf, Firefox should be sealed up a bit before, too.

[aanker]

Subscribed!:Kaleun_Applaud:
Yes, please include me or point me to where this Topic might be, if/when it starts.

Little things like this for example:

Do not forget that if you websurf, Firefox should be sealed up a bit before, too.

[Moonlight]

@Skybird and RR, I have a spare PC that's doing nothing at the moment, how's about giving us a tutorial on installing Linux and which one to use cinnamon etc.
I've looked at various websites and have come away even more confused than I started about which one I should be using, for those of us who are un-initiated about all things Linux it would be a god send. :up:

You're doing what everyone else does when it comes to anything to do with Linux Skybird, you're passing the buck. :down:

All those links you posted are going to confuse the heck out of me and I'm going to quit out of there before I tear my bloody hair out in frustration.
Did you even read what I posted, I asked you and RR to give us a tutorial on how you got Linux up and running, you're always extolling the virtues of Linux so now its time to stop sitting on your backsides and give us the benefit of your Linux installation experience.
If you can't be bothered to do this tutorial just say so, I won't hold it against you, I'll just stop reading anything to do with that OS from you two or from anybody else as well. :salute:

[Skybird]

Moonlight,

I am a newbie to Linux myself.

Consider this.

There is not that much more than what others already have said in many places or in that tutorial that I linked above as an example. Some initial questions I could answer then, yes - if you would care to get to even that point. That tutorial I just linked for you, says right what I would tell you, but it does so with screenshots, and in a generally more profound way.

I searched links with a booting-USB software for you. I searched the link for downloading the Linux Mint 18 ISO for you. I read through that tutorial and checked that it is understandable, and I thibk it is - I did install my first Linux ten months ago with a far inferior German text I had found. I linked you the two main forums where any questions especially on Terminal questions could be answered that i could not answer.

And I have posted all this two or three times before, in various threads over the past months.

But you want me to just sit down and write another long twisted text that maybe would include some content errord or flawed info because I do not know it better myself, errors, and spending time on what already has been said more competently by many others in many places on Linux, not to mention that in german there are really some very good introductory books on Linux, and I assume there are in English as well, and I said over the past ten months several times that i recommend to get one "Linux for Dummies"-style of book and get some basic overview before you start. I did the same. It helped. Initially did not even read the whole book, just the first 40 pages or so.

Its not too much asked for. Some work, two or three hours of reading and preparing yourself will be needed if somebodyody wants to get into Linux while also getting some deeper basic understanding into what it is and why and how things are going. But in principle, you already get started by what is in that tutorial link I posted. I used some text in german, that was much less detailed. I think it was from some German PC magazine, but I do not know exactly anymore.

Really. I showed you the direction. I recommended you the pace to walk at. I gave you the initial advises for what to expect. A weather report. I gave you a map. And also a list with telephone numbers to call for help, including mine.

But walking the walk you must yourself. I will not carry you around.

Use the link for downloading the ISO file. Read the information on that site. Get the Cinnamon version you need: 32 or 64 Bit, I do not know your hardware, but most likely it is 64 Bit. You better be sure on the Bits.

Use the link for downloading the boot-software file. Read the information there, it is not that much at all. With many screenshots, you get talked through the procedure.

Create that disk, and/or stick. Some older systems may prefer the one over the other method so maybe create both, to have them ready.

And then

- either go through that installation tutorial, step by step. That is what I did, and even if I write whole night long, more than what is written in that tutorial I could not tell you, too;

- or set your BIOS to boot from stick, and then the system should launch from stick in Linux even without having installed Linux to HD. You can then check it out, look at things, it is fully functional. Get a first impression, whether it meets your taste or not. Check drivers onboard, play around. Learning by doing.

And when then you run into some problem, then precisely describe it and ask, and I will see whether I can help. Most likely I will not be able, then you have to ask the same question, as precisely, in the English main forum for Linux Mint that I linked, or Robbins or somebody else with better knowledge needs to answer instead of myself. You will get an answer there, and if those guys are like in the German forum, then you will get an answer within minutes. Or several answers. If the problem is difficult, they will talk you through. And different to me, those guys know Linux better than I ever will. I had to ask there myself severla times.

Just doing the working steps you must yourself. Those links are all you need to get you started.

Now get that booting stick/CD up with a Linux installation, and then boot your system from that one. And there you are.

P.S. Note, if you do not understand that from the tutorial: Linux gets always installed to HD via such a USB stick or CD that you created first via an ISO. Alternatively you can buy some book DVD with some Linux veriuson, but often, these versions are outdated. Ideal it nwould be if you get a Linux Mint 18 for Dummies book with an according installation CD/DVD. Else you MUST create such a stick or CD/DVD, but what software you use for that, is unimportant, I linked just the one I used myself, there are dozens of others. When you boot your target system via this stick or DVD, you then land on the Linux Mint Cinnamon desktop. From here you can - but must not - install to HD by pressing that huge button on desktop tellinmg you that it starts to install Linux - this time to HD. But do not be too fast with that, first check you system and the Linux Mint itself.

If there are hardware compatability issues you run into, espoecially with graohis, printers, then ask again. Moist likely you will need to try through various drivers, I then tell you how. But until then - step by step. No second step before the first.

[Skybird]

Somebody asked for Firefox.

I simply recommend to use the following addons, that you can download from within Firefox: Adblock Plus (please exclude Neal's site from its blacklist!), since many malware can come in form of windiows with adverts popping up. Better Privacy, it helps to delete flash cookies and LSO cookiesd, the latter cna be extrenely danmgerous if abused, and cannot be detected or deleted by ordinary methods. Check this and use it manually at times, when you think of it. Ghostery, it is a sofweatre that supresses software autmatically runnign when you open a site that tries to track you down and log your behaviour, loading pop ups and relocating you. Interesting to get rid of unwanted surveillance and auto-relocating by adware and the likes. NoScript, it is a bit more complex in optiosn and allows black- and white listing as well as many options to switch off critical auto-scripting, Flash, Java and the likes. Not everybody likes my very rigid settings there, I tend to have much stuff switched off than most people have "on". But auto scripting is dangerous and potentially very harmful stuff, one should not take any chances there.

Also, check the options that Firefox allows, settings. Here, especially the data-security tab and privacy relevant optiions should be checked. Use the oriuvate mode, swithc of chrnicles, do not allow passwords to be saved (what is stored on your HD can be retrieved). The options you find on those tabs mostly should be self-explanatory - be conservative. You trade a little luxury and comfortable handling with much better protection. The more you leave to the computer to do automatically, the less safe you are.

[BarracudaUAK]

I really don't have a whole lot of time to go into detail right now, but I had typed this up as part of another post that I didn't actually post due to lack of time.

Not detailed, but does give a basic rundown for installing Fedora with KDE.

If you are not intending to "game" on your new Linux install -initially-, I think that KDE is the better alternative.

I am running Fedora 23/KDE on a desktop with a AMD 5600x2 (dual core 2.8ghz) 8GB RAM (formerly ran Fedora 20 with 4GB RAM), and currently running a XFX 6750 1GB (2 of them in crossfire actually).

It runs fast. Not as fast as the 8 core I'm typing on, but this PC is easily 4X what the old one is.
If your PC has less than 2 GB RAM, then go with something else.

BE WARNED: The lower the system requirements for a Linux Desktop, The less "polish" and fewer "easier to use" tools it will have.


THIS IS NOT A WALKTHROUGH.

This is simply to give you an "idea" of what you should expect to encounter.



I've edited this slightly, but only to make it "make sense".
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First, some older BIOS versions will not boot from a USB stick...

I haven't tried Ubuntu 15.x or 16.x, but my installs of Fedora 20,23, and 24 all come as a LIVE DVD. (Download ISO, burn DVD, use.)
Similar to KNOPPIX (a LIVE CD/DVD, "forked" from (or based on) debian, like Ubuntu is), The OS is on the DVD and is loaded into a "ram drive" leaving your Hard Drives untouched.
You can view the drives, but the Distros that I have tried, set the drives to "read only", until you tell it otherwise, and you have to do that each time.
But only as long as you are running from the DVD. Keeps you from wiping out your installed linux/windows OS.

In Fedora, (has been 2 years since trying Ubuntu, so I'm not sure about it)
there is an "Install to Hard Drive" desktop icon in the top left corner of the desktop, you simply click that, and the installation starts.

Then you tell it which hard drive(s) you want to use, and then tell it how you want to use it (standard partition, Logical Volume, etc), click "automatically create partitions" (or something similar) and click "OK".
It will tell you what it is going to do, you click ok, then set time zone, and a few other simple things, and click install, and THEN it starts installing.
Then while that works, you set a "root" password and User account/password and let it finish.
Takes about 10-15 min on a dual-core 2.8 with a WD raptor HDD.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The most you might have trouble with is the partitioning the HDD. If you are not sure, just go with the recommended and you should be ok.

Barracuda

[BarracudaUAK]

...
Plus with 50 years you are no longer that hot for new tech stuff anymore like you were when you were 16, 20, 25. Yoo start to appreciate known routines and comfort over innovation. LOL
...


I am already set in my ways.
I too like older things, so I can understand your point on that.
However, I still like to look at the new stuff, and learn about it.
Even if it is just to tell the person, that has been trying to make something "better" than what I like to use, where, when and how they messed up.:har:



...
That I start gaming under Linux, I do not expect within the coming years, probably never in my lifespan.
...


It is easier than you think, but a little more difficult than most of us would like.
Unless the game is written for Linux.
I have several games for Linux on Steam, they all run excellent.
The main problem I have, is Fedora doesn't ship/package proprietary software with the OS, so you have to get it yourself. I use the CLI, BUT you can get everything setup just by clicking on a link on the webpage.
Ubuntu/Mint would probably be easier.


...
Security risks also are involved with using WINE. Its not as easy going as it sounds at first description.
...


Since WINE is an interface that allows programs to make Windows API calls, then if those calls are made with malicious intent, then they can cause harm.
If it wasn't possible, then Windows would be secure, and we wouldn't have one of the reasons to switch to Linux.

I understand why you are concerned, but I read an article somewhere a few years ago.
And they could only get a few viruses to actually "infect" the system using WINE.
Now WINE has improved, but it still won't run everything.
Not necessarily a bad thing...

And it is a bit difficult to get some games working, but WINETRICKS is your friend in that regard.

And Last but not Least:

The first year I used Linux exclusively, I had to check the net constantly for answers to questions I had. You are learning something new.

Think about this: How much would you actually know how to do in Win7 if you had NEVER used a computer before?
We walk in with you and you take a seat by this screen, and this Tall Grey Box.
And then we leave.
It's not even on, we just leave you here to figure it out.
How long would it take for anyone to figure it out?

I know an older Gentleman who used to work on UNIX. He used CAD programs, etc, and worked with UNIX all day.
This Man could have a conversation with us, a serious, intelligent conversation, and still be thinking of, at least, 2 other things at the same time.

But he couldn't work Windows, almost at all. Win95/98/2000/XP... he was lost.
We would have to tell him multiple times how to get to his e-mail.

In UNIX, he did everything as simple as most of us use Windows.

It's new and different. I have no doubt that it is a case of WHEN, not IF, you get into gaming on your Linux PC.:up:


Barracuda

[Rockin Robbins]

@Skybird and RR, I have a spare PC that's doing nothing at the moment, how's about giving us a tutorial on installing Linux and which one to use cinnamon etc.
I've looked at various websites and have come away even more confused than I started about which one I should be using, for those of us who are un-initiated about all things Linux it would be a god send. :up:
Sorry, moonlight I missed the earlier conversation. I'll get with an Ubuntu coaching session when I get home from work. Functionally, Mint would work identically but I'll use what I use so you will be able to follow step by step.

So starting tonight, "Install Ubuntu on your laptop" begins. I'll cover a couple things you aren't interested in, like dual boot systems and the best way to make those work for those who aren't looking to abandon Windows, just to expand their horizons. I'll start a new thread so we can have a focused thread. And it would allow Barracude to start one on Fedora and Skybird to do one on Mint if they like and we won't confuse anybody.

New thread: Install Linux on Moonlight's Spare Computer (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=228072)