Starting to investigate a Linux Mint notebook

[Skybird]

I have ended my testing phase of Linux Mint and want to get rid of this dual boot with W7, which is a bit unhandy, needing to reboot several times per day, for games, and then for anything else. Im ready to remove Linux from my gaming W7 PC, and get a separate notebook for Linux. It should have Linux Mint pre-installed, not Ubuntu, I want it preinstalled, so that the company delivering must guarantee the compatability of all used hardware.

I will do evertyhing under Linux, except gaming. I surf a lot, so I want a not to bad display: 17". the companies to chose for Linux on notebooks, seem to be Asus, Acer and Lenovo.

I found this shop in Germany.

http://www.ixsoft.de/cgi-bin/web_store.cgi?ref=Catalogs/de/hardware-notebooks-17-catalog.html

It seems Asus is the only option for 17" displays...?

Well, I know nothing about noteobook technology, models, labels, brands, and where to set the performance of this or that notebook grafics board, I also cannot rank their labels and names. Nothing. I tried to get an overview this afternoon, and bogged down.

Any tips and recommendations for what to look out for, what processor to favour, what graphics card? Any thoughts on some of the models on display there?

Money is not an issue, but I do not want to headlessly waste it. If I spend more, I want a convincing reason for why wanting to do so. Reliability and long lasting durability are the words to look out for. I hate to buy such stuff and loosing it already 3 years later. It has to last a bit longer.

Mobility is not much needed.

And finally: is their any decisive reason why one would want to favour Ubuntu over Mint here? A technical, a compatability reason, I mean? I noted that most shops over here, if they offer Linux-specialised notebooks at all, only offer Ubuntu and close derivates, but almost never Mint, although Mint today is the most widespread Linux distrubution. I want to stick with it, since it is said to be easier, and I do not want to deal with another Linux again while I even have not fully mastered Mint. Also, I like this Mint. Very much.

Purposes: email, surfing, text processing, and picture editing, video streaming sometimes, MP3 and CD burning. System safety goes first, since I do - already limited - banking via this system. Game-ability is a bonus, but no must.

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I also would ask for a good printer-scanner combo that reliably offers full functionality under Linux Mint. My old Canon printer and Canon scanner gave me troubles with Mint, since Canon offers no Linux support at all, and the open sources drivers did not reliably work with them. The printer should allow 3rd party ink cartridges (cheaper ink). HP gets called out often. True? I hear bad news about their ink cartridges, however, locking out third party offers. Not a huge monster box I want, but limited size of the chassis would be a bonus.

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P.S. Quite important to me: no noisy machine. The more silent it is, the better.

[Red_88]

For printer and scanner HP and brother have good linux support. I don't know about the cartridges. My old Brother inkjet/scanner is rather thirsty, never tried third party cartridges though.

since you don't want to play games internal graphics should be more than enough. On the plus side if its an intel chip linux support is excellent since intel is the only manufacturer who provide opensource linux drivers for their graphics.

[Skybird]

HP, Brother, Intel. Logged. Thanks!

Anything more? Whats the CPU to watch out for: silent, not getting hot, fast enough to stream videos and to surf smoothly, good bang for the buck? Any specific Intel graphics chips to look for?

[Red_88]

well the graphics chip is normally integrated with the processor nowadays.
Since my laptop is already 3 years old, i don't have the newer intel processors on my scope. I have myself an i3-2328 which is a rather cheap one (and now obsolete). performance still sufficent for everything multimedia related, I can run even windows 7 in virtual box with it!
so IMHO the i3 series is way to go if you don't want spend too much money on it.

[Skybird]

I know nothing about VM so far, but have it on my radar as an option, chess-related, one or two small Windows-based graphcis tools that I like to use for some special things, and if I had it installed, I maybe would be tempted to try a few less hardware-demanding games in it as well.

What would be a reasonable threshold for hardware specs, so to meet the criterion of allowing this? Or do I just assume the very same like I would if I would consider a native Windows machine? I have no clue on how VMs simulate Windows environment.

And must VMs be installed already during Linux installation, or can be installed afterwards?

[Red_88]

Bear in mind if you run windows in a VM on linux host there is only rudimentary support for 3d graphics, no 3d games in VM and no 3d applications. Also it is recommended to have a beefier pc. If you want to run in the VM windows vista or above you need at least 4gb of RAM, better 8gb. the i3 series processor will do it, but i don't know how much power boost an i5 series will give you and if its more in performance warrant the price.
However some old games run just fine with wine under linux, like DW. Wine is an windows API emulator for linux, you can have a look at their Database of games to look if it is supported or not: https://appdb.winehq.org/
keep in mind that anything with a copy protection like starforce, tages etc. won't run under wine! Games from GOG don't have this problem (but there is no guarantee they run under Wine)
The VM can be installed afterwards.
Also I would recommend to install a 32 bit windows instead of a 64bit windows in the VM client because of the smaller memory footprint of the 32bit versions.

[Skybird]

Aye, logged that in, thanks. I am mostly about chess software, Chessbase GUI, maybe, if it it is possible, the occasional Artrage (if Linux supports the Bamboo or another tab), and for my needs being able to run the classical old Paint Shop Pro 9 for some minor things would be great, I am simply used to that, and Gimp needs quite some learning into, which might not be justified by my limited needs. Its there, but handling-wise it leaves doubts to me. Things like that. No flight sim. No SBP. No Assetto Corsa. At best some strategy cosim like Flashpoint Campaigns, Shock Force, or Virtual Pool 4.

Okay, Pool and its extensive use of 3D being off that list then.

[Skybird]

I detect myself drifting towards an Asus VivoBook, also to invest a bit more and secure some technical reserves that I may not need right now and in the imminent future, but maybe later on.

Anyone having experience with the VivoBook series, quality of construction, durability?

The one I set my eyes on now has an i7-6500U, HD-530, GTX-950M, is very flat, in an aluminium hull, and offers option for two HDs: one SSD and one traditional HD. Tehcncially currently maybe a bit overkill for my needs, but who knows how it goes if I happen to install a VM. The display seems to be pretty good, which is a plus in my eyes, since I will use this for almost all the ordinary daily computer things.

Opinions? Possible alternatives currently are Asus devices with i5 4710M and with 4720M processors. But the naotebooks are thicker, and the display not as good, it seems.

All 17".

P.S. And a Linux question: does the new Mint Cinnamon version 18 come with Linux Kernel 4.4 or better already?

[Skybird]

Seems I can get a good deal for an Asus N752VX, and I am tempted to take it.

Its a i7-6700HQ, 8 GB or more, 2 HD slots, said to have very excellent Bose soundsystem loudspeakers and excellent full HD display of very high quality and 1980x1050 resolution. Video is an Intel HD530 and an nVidia 950M.

That is technically probably a bit overkill for my needs, but I may want to try out VM or Wine for earlier described purposes, also, this will be my everyday surfing and "working" platform, so regarding multimedia:

to have good sound,

and regarding the many hours I will stare at the display: to have a good display indeed, probably are no wrong investments.

I occasionally do video editing (animated and FX enhanced photo shows), which i have not explored on Linux so far, but will do so: for that to have some tech resources in the backhand cannot be wrong, too. Battery is said to be a bit short on legs for a 17", short of 4 hours in idle, 1 hour under stress in maximum lit display condition, but I do not depend on mobility with this, it is to replace my desktop mainstation. Its not a gaming platform, despite the power of the processor, but gaming is not my primary use for this anyway. I want hassle-free, reliable everyday performance and multimedia experience, without waiting pauses or stutterings, and this one seems to stay also quite silent even under stress, and stays cool, not warming much.

Plus that thing is flat and looks really cool, me thinks. Price would be a bit steep, 1200, but I can get a deal with almost 150 bucks off. I think I seal this deal.

Preinstalled with Mint 18 Cinnamon. I am tempted to replace the secondary HD with a secondary SSD, the first slot already is an SSD, too. Or I leave that, to see whether I need it, I can add or make changes later on.

Opinions? Good deal, or waste of money?

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Asus-N752VX-GC131T-Notebook-Review.161407.0.html

Mind you, I want a notebook that demonstrates its technical compatability with Linux Mint by having it preinstalled as a standard, that rules out many other Linux devices available in Germany from Lenovo, Tuxedo and the likes, since they are limited to Ubuntu and its strain (you probably can install Mint manually on them, but who tells me the thing is fully compatible with Mint?). There probably are even better deals to get - but show me that they are for Mint.

[Skybird]

Signed the deal, last piece of kit, for 1050 bucks, with RAM upgrade to 12 instead of 8 MB and a bigger primary SSD of 250 instead of 125 GB it finally costs 1130 bucks. The secondary 1TB HD I just left in for the time being, I could replace it for an SSD later, if I wish.

Should allow more than sufficient reserves for maintaining a VM. Checking out Wine shows me that it most likely can do nothing for me. I need to get Virtual Box running.

[Onkel Neal]

Congrats on your new machine, enjoy!

[Skybird]

Thanks, will have fun, I'm sure (and if not, that toy at least makes for a pleasurable sight on my desktop - the looks are sexy :D ).

My timing also is nice, since Linux Mint 18 still is young and has been released just weeks ago.

To answer my own question on the Linux kernel versions: yes, Mint 18 has kernels of at least 4.4 integrated already.

[aanker]

Great Topic Skybird, I will be following in your footsteps when my time comes. I've had enough of MS - especially with the new all in one update procedure.

Thanks for sharing and congrats on the new rig.

[STEED]

I will when time comes get Win10 but it will never be connected to the web, it will be used off line. As for on line Mint sounds good to me.

[Skybird]

I will when time comes get Win10 but it will never be connected to the web, it will be used off line. As for on line Mint sounds good to me.
Keep in mind, you cannot seal off W10 to not go online or simply unplug the wire if you depend on for example Steam or any game or software that demands online connectivity. I reported last late autumn that I got hit by by GWX updates on my old installation of W7 even although I had WU switched off. Microsoft sneaked in via other, non-documented ways, probbaly the al-ways active, W7 embedded Explorer that Windows 7 depends on for background tasks. On W10 you cannot trust to prevent updates while leaving the wire connected, only delay them a bit, you also cannot select and chose between wanted and unwanted updates anymore. W7 seems to get the same treatment now from Octobre on.

Best advise for new installations is to use an older Windows like W7, and patch it to a standard of mid-last-year by using a patch archive on DVD. Do not download stuff from microsoft servers anymore. They have lied so often now and intentionally mislabelled patches to make people downloading them unsuspiciously that all trust is gone. If you even cannot trust them anymore that a labelled essential security patch is indeed a security patch only, then you have no reason anymore to invest any trust in them.

[STEED]

The Win10 will only be used for writing letters and other stuff and if I need to print anything off I just make a copy on a USB stick and pop up to the library to do the printing. Apart from that I still got a few old games that don't need the Internet, so in many ways this desktop PC will be my last one as I will switch to a laptop when the times comes. My router will never be switched on while using the Win10 laptop nor will I take it out the house so no need to worry about wifi. Just to add when I'm on the Mint on the Internet I will unplug the power to the Win10.

This is of course still a few years away so I got time to continual researching and dropping into this thread. Any luck the MS crime bosses will be bought down..we hope. :)

[danasan]

Well, I would expect a BluRay drive in such a machine.

[Skybird]

Bluray, I thought about it, but then - at 17" you simply do not need Bluray movies, on that screen diameter, no matter the 1980 resolution, you simply do not see a difference to a DVD, its all too small. At best it would have made sense with a 4K display which also is available for this machine - but not with Linux preinstalled, and for much higher price, around 1700 bucks. I think it then has Bluray by default - and is Microsoft-infested by default as well.

My TV is 80cm, and at my seating distance, ca. 1.90m, I cannot see the difference between DVD and BluRay as well. Bluray only becomes visible in effect if I seat myself MUCH closer to the screen so that I would see single pixels of a DVD. And that screen is much wider than that of a laptop.

4K and BluRay and all that becomes interesting only on really big screens, imo, on small and medium sized screens it is a waste of money, me thinks.

[danasan]

Don't forget that Bluray is a medium to write on as well.

The capacity is something like ten DVDs.

And they are affordable today.

[Skybird]

Yes, but I usually do not need such storage capacities, I never needed them so far. For the usual everyday needs to store this and that I still use mostly CDs over DVDs, because they are sufficient for that. Or I use bigger capacity USB-sticks, 64GB. Or an external HD. For long time storage, HDs are the safest option, the data could be often rescued by specialists even if the contorl electronics and chips have broken down. USB sticks are the unsafest, their break-down rate is higher than that of any other storage medium.

I think financially the system is worth its price even without a bluray burner, due to the modern processor and speed, the very good - they write - IPS panel, and the very good - so they write - sound system. I will see in some days.

Did a first investigation into Virtual Box VM. Seems to be quite capable and reliable, but is not as easy as I hoped it would be. After a first half an hour of reading an introduction to installing it, I have understood little to nothing. That the background tasks of Linux under the graphical surface are no world I am familiar with, does not help either.

Its like with the very early Windows versions in the 90s - many power users still used a CLI window to do more complex stuff, it was more precise and worked faster than doing that stuff via the GUI of Windows, often it also was the only way to get certain stuff done. Same with Linux. The ordinary every day tasks can be wonderfully done under Mint Cinnamon, and linux works much faster and much more problem-free and reliable than Windows - but when you need to work on the system itself, you often need to fall back to Linux' pendant of a CLI, although under Mint the need to do so seems to be met less often than under many other Linux distributions.

[Skybird]

It's here. Super display quality from even absurd viewing angles :) (better than my PC main display), very good sound indeed for a size like this , and Linux and stuff runs smoother and faster on it than on my PC. Needing to tailor and tune the usual things which will cost time, I am still not that blindly familiar with Linux, maybe never will be (compared to Wíndows), but I so far and after 4 hours I am a happy customer.

[Skybird]

Thought I'd share this with those of you who consider to move to Mint sooner or later. https://sites.google.com/site/easylinuxtipsproject/mint-cinnamon-first This is a great way to continue after you have done the base installation. The base installation does not explained in this, but all the recommended first steps to follow after it. Also, there are many sub-"wikis" linked to in the list, focussing on specific things in more detail. I think this is a good read you should do before you start to install, it gives you a good overview and introduction to what to expect. You may be tempted to think that this is difficult stuff, due to the importance of inputs via the socalled Terminal. Bu this tool only is needed for background administration, and system maintenance beyond the ordinary every-day-routines. In normal life, you will not need to use it once you have set up the system in detail - and problems are very rare under Linux, Windows gives you more often a headache. Usually you will just paste and copy command lines from wikis and forum advices when you asked for help, and insert them into the Terminal without knowing what the options and command syntax really means. The importance of the Terminal is no argument against using Linux, you must not be intimidated by it - really. At least if you just live a private user life in front of your machine and do not depend on using it for server maintenance and complicated network administration etc. :) As you can see I still need to tweak the script permissions in Firefox a bit, text formatting currently works - not as intended...LOL

[Onkel Neal]

One month in, the new laptop still making you happy?

[Skybird]

It does, but I do not do any fancy stuff with it, mostly browsing and emails. First latop I ever had seen or maintained that is as fast, if not faster, than my main PC. Linux adds its boost to the fast hardware,too.

Its the off-the-routine stuff that can give you headaches in Linux at times.

Too bad that chess is a sad, sad affair under Linux.