TMO campain - how historic?

[ETAIPOS]

I'm currently playing TMO2.5tw campaign and I wonder, how accurate it is? Can I expect to find Japanese carriers at Timor Sea around Darwin raid? Or take part in Java Sea battle?

I have already encountered strange things, like unescorted Nippon Maru class tanker heading to Manila Bay around 20 jan 42, or troop transport escorted by 2 DDs steaming along Java Sea on 17 Jan, just north from Surabaya.

It seems dynamic campaign do not really work with rapidly changing situations

Besides I find it strange, that when I return from 2nd war patrol, with base moved already from Manila to Surabaya, I spend 20 days in port, as it is IMHO completely unrealistic to sit in port so long at this time. (I do have some 2 pts of hull damage, from AA guns on a merchant I wanted to finish off with deck gun but it should be patched up in few hours, tops).
Or maybe should I play all this part of game as single long patrol, spending single night or 2-3 days max in port (using TC) reload/refuel and fight on, finishing only when base moves to Fremantle?

[aanker]

Sounds like you got pretty dinged up. Even with 2% damage to your pressure hull it takes time to repair. Furthermore your crew needs some R&R or they will get burned out. They need more than 2-3 days in port.

The TMO campaign itself is fairly accurate. Ducimus tried to have shipping where it should be at certain times during the War. Yes the big Naval Battles happen.

The Japs chased everyone out of the way on land and sea in their advance South. Surabaya couldn't be held so the boats were moved to bases in Australia. The British were overwhelmed on land even with superior numbers, Manila was lost the same way.

You're the Captain. You can stay out as long as you want and rearm and resupply at friendly ports in a never ending patrol - or you can go out, complete your Objectives, sink some tonnage & return to base, and spend some time in port and await new Orders.

Happy Hunting!

[ETAIPOS]

Sounds like you got pretty dinged up. Even with 2% damage to your pressure hull it takes time to repair.

Hmm, this would mean that any sort of surface fighting is out of question in TMO... I had literally 1 moment when I took damage - finishing of a merchant that I hit with torpedo before. He had AA guns only and could train one, maybe two at me.
Against DDs I'm either not located or dead, I do not know yet how to make them lose contact after they establish it. And it seems DCs dropped are always hitting stern and braking ship beyond repair within 1-2 runs by DD.

Furthermore your crew needs some R&R or they will get burned out. They need more than 2-3 days in port.

The Japs chased everyone out of the way on land and sea in their advance South. Surabaya couldn't be held so the boats were moved to bases in Australia. The British were overwhelmed on land even with superior numbers, Manila was lost the same way.

I wouldn't mind a month rest in Fremantle. But due to reasons you described I do not see Surabaya as a plausible place to rest for so long. A week? Great. But 20 days not so much.

The TMO campaign itself is fairly accurate. Ducimus tried to have shipping where it should be at certain times during the War. Yes the big Naval Battles happen.

You're the Captain. You can stay out as long as you want and rearm and resupply at friendly ports in a never ending patrol - or you can go out, complete your Objectives, sink some tonnage & return to base, and spend some time in port and await new Orders.

Happy Hunting!

Thanks! I will try to interfere in those big battles, then.
If there is no way to make the port stay shorter I'll try to simulate a week leave in port through TC. Unfortunately this means my 2nd patrol will be some 70-80 days long... At what date base moves to Australia?

[cdrsubron7]

At what date base moves to Australia?

Surubaya was seized by the Japanese on March 8, 1942 in WW II. I would assume that that the submarine switches to Fremantle shortly after this date. :03:

[aanker]

At what date base moves to Australia?
After 1942-02-28.

Because 1942 was not a leap year, SH4 may become confused because Fremantle-Perth is set to begin on 1942-02-29 ??? so... 1942-03-01 should be safe.

You can look at TMO 2.5's 'Flotillas.upc' in Data\UPCData\UPCCampaignData to find the dates.

Happy Hunting!

[Rockin Robbins]

Going back to the original question, what is historic? Is historic pertaining to ship positions and actions at a certain time corresponding to the events of WWII or does historic pertain to the processes that created the dance of death that war was?

Let's consider that in the context of a mythical game: Ali-Frazier I - Fight of the Century. In making the game we have to wrestle with the meaning of the term "historical." Finally the decision is made that means that the Player as Ali, will face a Frazier that throws the exact punches and moves he made in the real fight. With a real sense of accomplishment the game is tossed out on the market for $60 and sells really well for a couple of weeks.

Then the You Tube videos start to appear. Frazier is in the middle of the ring throwing the exact same punches in the same location he fought Ali. But the player is sitting on the stool. Frazier doesn't chase him. He's "historically accurate." Ali gets off his stool and shuffles over to Frazier's left side. Frazier continues to punch the Ali of the past. But the player is invulnerable, standing off to the side, undetected by the "historical" Frazier. Bored from standing there watching Frazier fight a hallucination, Ali gives Frazier one punch, completely undefended of course, and knocks Frazier out. The entire Internet blows up into a laughfest at the expense of a lame game.

Now let's consider the same thing in Silent Hunter 4. Suppose a port sent an unescorted convoy a week except for a month when the Wahoo was parked offshore, picking off one of the convoys. Then the Japanese stopped sending that convoy for a month until Wahoo left. So in the game you sit offshore and sink convoy after convoy, which is blindly sent out to their death. Of course for the month of Wahoo, the convoys stop. Is that "historical?" Or can you see how ridiculous that is.

War is an interdependent dance of death between opponents who prod and react to each other, continuously changing their tactics in a struggle to gain an advantage. A spotter from the US carrier spots the Japanese fleet and calls home, Americans strike and sink many ships. If the spotter does not spot the Japanese fleet Americans do not strike and many ships remain afloat. War is governed by the personalities of its participants, the fortunes of war and cosmic throws of a set of deadly dice.

I say "historical" is a process of how the war is fought, not a reproduction of the physical moves performed during the one version of the war we have record of. I say the sub skippers in the war didn't know where they would encounter Japanese ships or what Japanese disposition was. They were following orders, not gallivanting around independently seeking targets hundreds of miles from their assigned areas. I say we expect to be able to predict what no real sub skipper could ever predict in the war.

I say a scripted campaign is just a joke. A dynamic campaign where you don't know what you will encounter where is the REAL historical campaign. You can't game a historical campaign. But a scripted campaign is as big a farce as our Ali-Frazier I fight game above.

I think Ducimus hit it out of the park with his campaign. It's very dynamic and you really can't predict what you will encounter. Still shipping and military moves in general are based on what really happened in the war. It is plausible but not history in a straitjacket.

[Barkerov]

RR is correct in what he is saying but there is still a way to play "historical" mods like RSRD. Simply don't watch the Ali vs Frazer fight beforehand. In other words make a plan that isnt based on entirely what was going to happen historically but on what was known at the time. This requires discipline.

The downside of this approach is that it doesn't last, once you complete the fight once you cant unlearn what you observed while you were in it and it will be exactly the same next time.

I think the best way to go is to try both

[jscharpf]

Dang I love Rockin Robbin's explanation :)

[Armistead]

TMO builds traffic basically like the stock campaign, by using percentages and generics rather than like RSRD that picks every ship and makes a path for each group. TMO basically spawns the same convoy, but each time because of generics and percentages, the groups makeup will be different, the amount of ships different and you can even use a percentage if the group will even spawn, however, most groups travel the same path, but unlike RSRD, you don't know for sure when it's coming if at all, so it gives you the historical element of surprise. He also uses a lot of loops that can change the path up somewhat. The other thing good about TMO is groups tend to zig zag a lot, but about every 10 nms, less causes too much lag, but forget sitting in a straight line waiting, cuz even 10 nms zig legs often leave you in left field. There are numerous battles, etc. that are scripted, but not like or as well as RSRD that scripts the routes from port to port. With RSRD alone, I know exactly where to be at what time to find the same group, so TMO certainly gives you more the unknown feel of surprise..

[max-peck]

TMO builds traffic basically like the stock campaign, by using percentages and generics rather than like RSRD that picks every ship and makes a path for each group. TMO basically spawns the same convoy, but each time because of generics and percentages, the groups makeup will be different, the amount of ships different and you can even use a percentage if the group will even spawn, however, most groups travel the same path, but unlike RSRD, you don't know for sure when it's coming if at all, so it gives you the historical element of surprise. He also uses a lot of loops that can change the path up somewhat. The other thing good about TMO is groups tend to zig zag a lot, but about every 10 nms, less causes too much lag, but forget sitting in a straight line waiting, cuz even 10 nms zig legs often leave you in left field. There are numerous battles, etc. that are scripted, but not like or as well as RSRD that scripts the routes from port to port. With RSRD alone, I know exactly where to be at what time to find the same group, so TMO certainly gives you more the unknown feel of surprise..

Absolutely agreed :D
After 7 something years of playing Trigger Maru, this is the best explanation of Ducimus's campaign layers I have ever read

It is historical, in a completely random way :up:

[Admiral Halsey]

I've said this before and will say this again. Someone needs to combine TMO's convoy system with RSRDC's scripted naval battles and you have the perfect campaign base.

[jldjs]

[QUOTE=Armistead;2429309. With RSRD alone, I know exactly where to be at what time to find the same group, [/QUOTE]

Apologies for hijacking a bit here, but, the place to be is known from history and so is the time, but that's where I seem to fail, the time. History gives the time, relative to what? Local time at the place of the Long/Lat coordinates? And, what time would that equate too for the game clock? Would sure like to know so I might get into that Coral Sea battle with the Japanese Task Force which I have not done for years of playing! Just sayin'!!!

[Admiral Halsey]

Apologies for hijacking a bit here, but, the place to be is known from history and so is the time, but that's where I seem to fail, the time. History gives the time, relative to what? Local time at the place of the Long/Lat coordinates? And, what time would that equate too for the game clock? Would sure like to know so I might get into that Coral Sea battle with the Japanese Task Force which I have not done for years of playing! Just sayin'!!!

RL time, date and location for them. You can actually look in the campaign layers and find the long and lat for both TF's in you need to. Always make sure to be a day or two early though so the ships spawn in.

[Rockin Robbins]

Scripting is always tricky. The Aces of the Deep crew turned the Pacific war into the Battle of the Atlantic by adding dozens of hunter-killer groups to the Japanese navy! Changes SH4 from a hunting game into a hiding game. We're removing the hunter killer groups (except three!) from FOTRS Ultimate and making a mod plugin to restore them for players who wonder if American submarines could have won the Battle of the Atlantic.

It's the highest and best use of a simulation that I can think of! But it has no place in the core mod because of the draconian changes it makes to the way you must play. So it will ba an optional plugin that you can add or remove at will.

[Armistead]

Scripting is always tricky. The Aces of the Deep crew turned the Pacific war into the Battle of the Atlantic by adding dozens of hunter-killer groups to the Japanese navy! Changes SH4 from a hunting game into a hiding game. We're removing the hunter killer groups (except three!) from FOTRS Ultimate and making a mod plugin to restore them for players who wonder if American submarines could have won the Battle of the Atlantic.

It's the highest and best use of a simulation that I can think of! But it has no place in the core mod because of the draconian changes it makes to the way you must play. So it will ba an optional plugin that you can add or remove at will.

Interesting, years ago I basically trashed RSRD... I love the historical or known historical play of it, but added numerous sub killer groups through the traffic lanes, increased the hunt times and distance groups will come from and added a mix of other traffic and made most ports impossible to get into, plus redid most the crew ratings which took forever...Not really a mod, cuz since so many files are touched silly to run both

[Gibus]

It is historical, in a completely random way :up:
Bonjour,

For several years working with TMO, I absolutely do not agree with that.

On the purely historical, TMO does not bring any added value compared to the original game. Fundamental errors were neither corrected nor apprehended. Here are three striking examples among many, in my opinion:
1. Concerning the invasion of the Philippines, all convoys, absolutely all convoys, including the order of battle is completely fanciful, have been left unchanged. There is even some units that were not yet entered service, as the light cruiser Agano.
2. The famous battle of Guadalcanal: I doubt some of you were able to play. A huge shell in the file *.mis stock game program for 11 November 1944. The inconsistency of dates that it is invisible. TMO let this historic operation in the state.
3. In October 1944, the Admiral Takeo Kurita's fleet crossed the strait of San Bernardino with 2 Yamato in its ranks. This is a historical error easy to fix. TMO leave it as is. Say what you want historical convoys, whatever is done will Kurita willingly or by force the strait October 25, 1944, otherwise the game becomes meaningless.
However, Ducimus has done considerable work on random convoys (not historical) game by multiplying the course changes. We must welcome the amount of work. Sometimes these changes of direction can lead to islands ... This was not watched closely.

For the rest, all that is grotesque was left unchanged.

Of course, this is not critical to the adress of TMO but a response to what was written with quote.

[Rockin Robbins]

Interesting, years ago I basically trashed RSRD... I love the historical or known historical play of it, but added numerous sub killer groups through the traffic lanes, increased the hunt times and distance groups will come from and added a mix of other traffic and made most ports impossible to get into, plus redid most the crew ratings which took forever...Not really a mod, cuz since so many files are touched silly to run both
Like I've said many times, if you load RSRDC after TMO you really are not playing TMO any more. You've seen the movie Alien? RSRDC is a bit like that.:har:

[Rockin Robbins]

Bonjour,

For several years working with TMO, I absolutely do not agree with that.

On the purely historical, TMO does not bring any added value compared to the original game. Fundamental errors were neither corrected nor apprehended. Here are three striking examples among many, in my opinion:
1. Concerning the invasion of the Philippines, all convoys, absolutely all convoys, including the order of battle is completely fanciful, have been left unchanged. There is even some units that were not yet entered service, as the light cruiser Agano.
2. The famous battle of Guadalcanal: I doubt some of you were able to play. A huge shell in the file *.mis stock game program for 11 November 1944. The inconsistency of dates that it is invisible. TMO let this historic operation in the state.
3. In October 1944, the Admiral Takeo Kurita's fleet crossed the strait of San Bernardino with 2 Yamato in its ranks. This is a historical error easy to fix. TMO leave it as is. Say what you want historical convoys, whatever is done will Kurita willingly or by force the strait October 25, 1944, otherwise the game becomes meaningless.
However, Ducimus has done considerable work on random convoys (not historical) game by multiplying the course changes. We must welcome the amount of work. Sometimes these changes of direction can lead to islands ... This was not watched closely.

For the rest, all that is grotesque was left unchanged.

Of course, this is not critical to the adress of TMO but a response to what was written with quote.
This deserves a response, because it is typical of what people always think on first knee jerk response as to what is historical.

First of all, modeling exact compositions and behavior to mirror Earth World War II 1939-1945 is not possible in Silent Hunter 4. Let's take the battle group that launched the attack on Pearl Harbor, for instance.

The core of the battle group was the 4 main carriers of the Japanese navy, Kaga, Akagi, Hiryu and Soryu. But SH4 does not have the Kaga available at all, and is also missing one of the other three! You CANNOT produce a tape recorded Pearl Harbor attack group. So the only alternative is to use two or three of the other big carriers. Why? There is no alternative.

Spoiler! In Fall of the Rising Sun Ultimate, we will have all four of those carriers available, beautifully modeled and painted in max-peck RazzleDazzle magnificence! Nine years after SH4 hit the streets you'll finally be able to sink the Kaga.

Anyway, without the availability of the actual ships engaged, there is no choice but to pull out an Agano before its manufacture date to fill out a fleet here and there. That does not render the game "meaningless."

And what is historical? In Earth WWII 1939-1945 the Japanese cobbled together any available ships to send on missions. In our simulation the same thing happens. "Fanciful" components is what happened in reality. "Fanciful" components in the game reflects the actuality of the situation in the historical war.

Were the war to be refought starting in 1939 with the exact same resources available to both sides, battles would be fought in entirely different places by entirely different ships with entirely different results than the tape recorded war. "Historical" means to be subject to the same processes, not to be subjected to a tape recorded replay of completely irrelevant actions, such as a perfect historical recomposition of invasion fleets. History is not predetermined. It is the free will process being created at all times by the personalities of the participants, the resources at their command and the actions and reactions of the opponent. It is a dynamic process and that is the genius of the stock game's campaign. It represents reality, not slavish reenactment.

And when you take the actual battle group that attacked Pearl Harbor, make it sail the same route and launch planes at the date, time and loctation of the attack, what happens. The planes do not attack Pearl Harbor. If they do they act entirely differently than the planes during the war.

The Battle of the Coral Sea is a perfect example. You can put the ships out there in the places and at the times that correspond to history. But they will not then do the same things the real ships did.

So slavish, tape recorded history in the pursuit of not "meaningless" just doesn't work. It's like a chess game. Evey one is set up the same. Every game is unique because it is played dynamically.

My example of a port where a convoy a week was sent out for the duration of the war except for a month when Wahoo lurked outside the harbor comes to mind. In the game, the port will send out that convoy no matter what. It doesn't matter that YOU are out there sinking them. The port doesn't know or care you exist. That's what they did in 1943 so you can feed at will. How historical is that? I'd call THAT "meaningless." Oh, yeah, during the month the Wahoo was offshore the convoys will stop. The port will react to a submarine which is NOT THERE. Historical my fat patootie!:har:

However, part of a simulation is to answer the question "what if I were there in that situation?" And that's where the nature of the mission editor can be useful. Single missions are a terribly underused and mostly terribly designed aspect of SH4. But they are perfect for setting up Kurita's fleet or reasonable facsimile:D in the San Bernadino strait to see if you can mix it up with them. They will not do the same things they did in the tape recorded war but you can encounter them.

Now, if that happened in real life they would probably just hit the jets and blast by at 30 knots while you threw up your hands in frustration at never getting a shot. But in SH4? Who knows what they will do? It's according to built-in game coding and according to the script made by the mission editor and the skill of the guy who authored the mission.

Perfect reenactment of history is not on the menu though. Attempts to do that are inappropriate. Calling the game "meaningless" because it refuses to occupy the same strictly scripted hell that condemned Silent Hunter 2 and other simulations of the past is very misguided. In fact the genius of Silent Hunter 3 and 4 is that they abandoned the scripted straitjacket and instituted a revolutionary dynamic campaign, which like a true reenactment, results in different actions by different ships at different times and with different results. THAT is truly historical.

The best compromise, which is in itself limited, is to have plugin missions that set up historical conflicts in the game. But once you load it and begin playing, the slavish recording ends and the units, including yourself begin acting dynamically. Gibus' definition of history falls apart as soon as the first ship begins moving.

To relegate Silent Hunter 4 to Gibus' definition of history would necessarily remove your actions as a player. The computer game would entirely cease to exist. You would be a spectator to a television documentary, which itself would be full of error and conjecture. Would that, therefore, be "meaningless?"

[Gibus]

Bonjour RR,

The language barrier has struck a blow and obviously my intention was not interpreted in the sense of my brain.
1. I wanted to respond and show that I believe TMO is not a historical mod for a game that claims to be historical, because TMO does not correct the historical mistakes.
2. I used the phrase "no sense" in this context and example only to support my point.
Cordially. :salute:
Gibus

[Gray Lensman]

Like I've said many times, if you load RSRDC after TMO you really are not playing TMO any more. You've seen the movie Alien? RSRDC is a bit like that.:har:

I was under the impression that TMO was more about fixing submarine behavior to be more mechanically realistic (dive speeds, battery op time at various speeds, etc). I was also under the impression that RSRDC was more about reproducing exact historical ship/convoy placement/movement as you described earlier making it a limited/repetitive campaign play thru, then back to TMOs internal random campaign engine with the internal historical inconsistencies retained.

Why the statement "you are not playing TMO anymore?" RSRDC does not make any alterations in TMO's mechanical alterations/behavior that I know of.

Just because RSRDC was adapted to work with TMO doesn't mean that you really are not playing TMO anymore... Sorry, this is one time I have to disagree with you (in reality it's probably the first time, LOL)

It feels more to me that I am playing the RSRDC historically reproduced campaign using the TMO mechanical modifications which is exactly what I was expecting when I set up the combination. Reverse that and try playing RSRDC with the stock sub settings/behaviors and there's no comparison to playing it with the TMO modification. The various subs mechanical behaviors are much more realistically improved using the TMO alterations, to say nothing about the improved explosive graphics over the stock game graphics.

[Rockin Robbins]

I was under the impression that TMO was more about fixing submarine behavior to be more mechanically realistic (dive speeds, battery op time at various speeds, etc). I was also under the impression that RSRDC was more about reproducing exact historical ship/convoy placement/movement as you described earlier making it a limited/repetitive campaign play thru, then back to TMOs internal random campaign engine with the internal historical inconsistencies retained.

Why the statement "you are not playing TMO anymore?" RSRDC does not make any alterations in TMO's mechanical alterations/behavior that I know of.

Just because RSRDC was adapted to work with TMO doesn't mean that you really are not playing TMO anymore... Sorry, this is one time I have to disagree with you (in reality it's probably the first time, LOL)

It feels more to me that I am playing the RSRDC historically reproduced campaign using the TMO mechanical modifications which is exactly what I was expecting when I set up the combination. Reverse that and try playing RSRDC with the stock sub settings/behaviors and there's no comparison to playing it with the TMO modification. The various subs mechanical behaviors are much more realistically improved using the TMO alterations, to say nothing about the improved explosive graphics over the stock game graphics.
RSRDC changes enemy AI, torpedo characteristics, sensors, deck gun, AA gun, eliminates TMO evil airplanes that can sight you at periscope depth....there is almost no aspect of SH4 that the "campaign mod" RSRDC could resist changing!

TMO is a fragile adjustment of environment, enemy AI and your own sensors. RSRDC trashes the whole lot in favor of different settings for all. Yes, RSRDC for TMO has different settings from RSRDC for stock. Why? Who knows? But Lurker made a vampire supermod pretending to be a campaign adjustment. Had it been a stand-alone supermod it would have been an honest effort. It wasn't.

Too bad Ducimus isn't here. He'd tell you TMO is NOT a realism mod at all. It is a difficulty mod. Yes some things were done for eye candy reasons but in general Ducimus bathed every eye-candy possibility in acid. His acid test was "does this piece of eye-candy hurt gameplay in ANY way?" Yes meant it hit the recycle bin. TMO was about more challenging gameplay. Period. Anything else was almost coincidental. I do like the animated fans in the control room!:D:D

The worst thing is that Ducimus was driven mad by people complaining about aspects of TMO and requesting changes. He would change them and be confronted by the same complaints from other people. Why? Most of them were also running RSRDC, which overwrote just about ANYTHING Ducimus adjusted with TMO. All his effort was wasted. He quit modding, knowing he couldn't please anybody. I don't think he realized why. RSRDC.

[Gray Lensman]

RSRDC changes enemy AI, torpedo characteristics, sensors, deck gun, AA gun, eliminates TMO evil airplanes that can sight you at periscope depth....there is almost no aspect of SH4 that the "campaign mod" RSRDC could resist changing!

TMO is a fragile adjustment of environment, enemy AI and your own sensors. RSRDC trashes the whole lot in favor of different settings for all. Yes, RSRDC for TMO has different settings from RSRDC for stock. Why? Who knows? But Lurker made a vampire supermod pretending to be a campaign adjustment. Had it been a stand-alone supermod it would have been an honest effort. It wasn't.

Too bad Ducimus isn't here. He'd tell you TMO is NOT a realism mod at all. It is a difficulty mod. Yes some things were done for eye candy reasons but in general Ducimus bathed every eye-candy possibility in acid. His acid test was "does this piece of eye-candy hurt gameplay in ANY way?" Yes meant it hit the recycle bin. TMO was about more challenging gameplay. Period. Anything else was almost coincidental. I do like the animated fans in the control room!:D:D

The worst thing is that Ducimus was driven mad by people complaining about aspects of TMO and requesting changes. He would change them and be confronted by the same complaints from other people. Why? Most of them were also running RSRDC, which overwrote just about ANYTHING Ducimus adjusted with TMO. All his effort was wasted. He quit modding, knowing he couldn't please anybody. I don't think he realized why. RSRDC.

I guess an inspection of some of the files both before RSRDC is added to TMO and after will show the evidence that I will have to see.

However, I have already been sighted at periscope depth in clearer weather using TMO w/RSRDC so that part of TMO is still retained after the RSRDC overlay. I have gotten into the habit of insuring that I dive to 165 or lower if the plane looks as if it will come within 1 mile just because of being sighted at periscope depth. That didn't happen in the stock game at all.

[Rockin Robbins]

However, I have already been sighted at periscope depth in clearer weather using TMO w/RSRDC so that part of TMO is still retained after the RSRDC overlay. I have gotten into the habit of insuring that I dive to 165 or lower if the plane looks as if it will come within 1 mile just because of being sighted at periscope depth. That didn't happen in the stock game at all.
If that is happening you have some mod soup. Lurker HATED Duci's evil airplanes and never would have allowed them in RSRDC. When I asked him about it he was.....er......quite forceful and very colorful in that respect.

I actually consulted with Ducimus and created a mod that restores Duci's evil planes to an RSRDC game. But there are dozens and dozens of gameplay changes in RSRDC having nothing whatever to do with being a campaign mod.

[Gray Lensman]

No super mods other than TMO/RSRDC. Here's my Mod Soup currently:

The 2d6 name change is a weather mod to remind me to roll 2 6-sided die every 24 hours (midnight) to apply or remove the weather mod if you know which weather mod I'm referring to. Doesn't really help the storm time duration though.

However, I did run TMO by itself for a short time prior to adding the RSRDC combination. I could possibly have experienced the plane attack during that time and from that point on I've been pre-empting a repeat of that occurrence but I don't recall exactly when, I just recall the surprise vividly. LOL. and it was totally realistic though not expected. Why Lurker would want to remove it is beyond me? There are documented instances of patrol planes spotting submarines at periscope depth in ideal weather conditions.

I guess when I'm done with my current campaign, I'll rid myself of the RSRDC combo add-on as previously planned and wait until your mod is ready. If you'd like beta testing in particular regarding weather mod testing, I might be interested in some quick non shooting time-compressed weather patrols. I say non-shooting because I'm also currently immersed in a WitPAE game sucking up a lot of spare gaming hours, LOL. WitPAE is a time sponge, Thank God for retirement.