Texas allows guns in college classrooms under new law

[Gerald]

A new law went into effect in Texas on Monday that allows certain students to bring guns into classrooms, with supporters saying it could prevent mass shootings and critics saying the measure will endanger safety on campuses.

The so-called state "campus carry" law allows people 21 and older with a concealed handgun license to carry pistols in classrooms and buildings throughout public colleges, including the University of Texas system, one of the nation's largest with an enrollment of more than 214,000 students.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-texas-guns-idUSKCN10C2FS#

Open carry in the school,sure.:hmmm:


Note: Mon Aug 1, 2016 5:05pm EDT

[Jeff-Groves]

That should discourage some nutbag shooter.
They always look for the sheep with no defense.

[August]

That should discourage some nutbag shooter.
They always look for the sheep with no defense.

Dig it. :yep:

[Wolferz]

The only campus of higher learning to be shot up by nutbag/s
was in Ohio. And those shooters were military.:-?

[Jeff-Groves]

Now your hitting me where I hurt!
:haha:

[eddie]

There were kids killed at a college in Virginia too. Wonder how long it will take to hear the news when they have a shoot out at some frat party.

[August]

There were kids killed at a college in Virginia too. Wonder how long it will take to hear the news when they have a shoot out at some frat party.

Are you kidding? It'd be on the news within minutes. "If it bleeds it leads".

[macjim]

Politics, religion and gun control. :03:

[Catfish]

Teachers and personnel of all kind carrying guns will have to really care, properly wear and stow it, so that no kid can (ab)use it, not even accidentally.

I do not think the militarisation of civilian life is a useful idea to fight the causes of those shootings, or terrorism. It may be able to deal with the symptoms, but not the cause. It just raises the general threat level, and makes people nervous.
"How's your son in the kindergarten doing?"
"Oh he's safe the kindergarten teacher carries an unconcealed gun, and the janitor has a submachine gun."

A school where all are carrying guns, and openly. Why do people like this so much :hmmm:

[Commander Wallace]

Wouldn't it be easier to just have manned security checkpoints that everyone has to pass through with metal detectors. I know it would be a hassle to get through and take longer to get to class but still....

[Gerald]

I think it is not a risk of spread to other states and with this bill is ill, and extremely guns fixed.

[Feuer Frei!]

Maybe they will follow Walmart Stores in Texas and ask for security to check for licenses of the open carries :haha:

Gun rights advocates are having a field day.


Weapon focus.
Look it up.


Dumbest thing i've seen for a while on the net:

the law could prevent mass shootings because someone with a licensed concealed weapon could be ready to confront a gunman

[August]

A school where all are carrying guns, and openly. Why do people like this so much :hmmm:

Why the exaggeration? "Some" or "a few" not provide enough impact?

[August]

Wouldn't it be easier to just have manned security checkpoints that everyone has to pass through with metal detectors. I know it would be a hassle to get through and take longer to get to class but still....

This isn't just a one room school house. We're talking about institutions that cover many city blocks. They'd have to build a wall around the entire campus at every school, lock every door and secure every parking lot, athletic field anbd swimming pool then hire guards and spend millions on metal detectors.

The picture below would give you the scale of the project you're suggesting and this is just one campus.

http://www.vagantesconference.org/overview.gif

[Oberon]

I do not think the militarisation of civilian life is a useful idea to fight the causes of those shootings, or terrorism. It may be able to deal with the symptoms, but not the cause. It just raises the general threat level, and makes people nervous.


America is a different world to Europe, you've got to remember that. There's that saying that 'The only thing stopping a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.' Of course, what happens when two good guys with a gun mistake the other for a bad guy is less clear, but they'll work it all out eventually.

[August]

Of course, what happens when two good guys with a gun mistake the other for a bad guy is less clear, but they'll work it all out eventually.

Can you name some instances where this has happened? Outside of the battlefield I mean. That's just one of anti-gun lobbies talking points but it's based on a supposition not a fact.

[AndyJWest]

In Texas, a “good guy” tried to help a carjacking victim, but because he was improperly trained, he accidentally shot the victim in the head while the carjackers escaped. The Texas “good guy” even fled the scene with the carjackers. http://deadstate.org/combat-veterans-shoot-down-the-nra-good-guy-with-a-gun-is-based-on-a-fantasy-world/comment-page-1/

[Oberon]

Not yet, not publically anyway, but it's come close:

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/human_nature/2011/01/friendly_firearms.html


http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/10/3/1427420/-Armed-Vet-proves-NRA-wrong-and-explains-why-he-didn-t-confront-Oregon-Killer-with-Good-Guy-Gun

[August]

http://deadstate.org/combat-veterans-shoot-down-the-nra-good-guy-with-a-gun-is-based-on-a-fantasy-world/comment-page-1/

Not quite the same thing but i'll see that and raise you 12.

http://controversialtimes.com/issues/constitutional-rights/12-times-mass-shootings-were-stopped-by-good-guys-with-guns/

[AndyJWest]

12 what? The discussion was over incidents regarding 'good guys' potentially shooting each other. If it is going to be extended to other incidents involving guns held by civilians*, logically it also needs to include incidents like this: On April 27, a toddler in Milwaukee accidentally shot and killed his mother from the back seat of her car. The two-year-old picked up the gun after it slid under the seat and fired as they were driving down the highway. His mother died at the scene.

While it’s easy to classify accidental shootings like this tragedy as freak accidents, they’re not as rare as you think. The Washington Post found that there have been at least 23 shootings carried out by children under the age of 4 this year, up over 25 percent from this time last year.
http://www.vocativ.com/315008/even-toddlers-play-a-part-in-americas-gun-violence-problem/

And back on the topic of 'good guys' potentially shooting 'good guys', read this:
Gabrielle Giffords and the perils of guns: How an armed hero nearly shot the wrong man.
...
This is a much more dangerous picture than has generally been reported. Zamudio had released his safety and was poised to fire when he saw what he thought was the killer still holding his weapon. Zamudio had a split second to decide whether to shoot. He was sufficiently convinced of the killer's identity to shove the man into a wall. But Zamudio didn't use his gun. That's how close he came to killing an innocent man. He was, as he acknowledges, "very lucky."
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/human_nature/2011/01/friendly_firearms.html

* Edit: just noticed that not all of the 12 incidents involved civilian 'good guys' anyway. I don't think anyone is arguing that U.S. law enforcement officers should be unarmed.

[August]

12 what? The discussion was over incidents regarding 'good guys' potentially shooting each other.l (http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/human_nature/2011/01/friendly_firearms.html)

Not quite. The discussion was on whether people should have the right to carry firearms on college campus' and the unproven assumption that in a mass shooting situation armed "good guys" would just shoot each other instead. Your link was just some more opinions on the subject whereas I provided 12 real life examples where not only did that not happen but also lives were saved. As for the Zamudio he's a prime example that "good guys" aren't going to just open fire indiscriminately.

Just remember what Giffords is advocating is making sure that potential victims never have the ability to fight back. What i'd like to see is those who create "gun free zones" are held responsible when they don't prevent a mass killer from gaining access to that zone.

[AndyJWest]

Not quite. The discussion was on whether people should have the right to carry firearms on college campus' and the unproven assumption that in a mass shooting situation armed "good guys" would just shoot each other instead. Your link was just some more opinions on the subject whereas I provided 12 real life examples where not only did that not happen but also lives were saved. As for the Zamudio he's a prime example that "good guys" aren't going to just open fire indiscriminately.

Just remember what Giffords is advocating is making sure that potential victims never have the ability to fight back. What i'd like to see is those who create "gun free zones" are held responsible when they don't prevent a mass killer from gaining access to that zone.

And what about holding those who oppose "gun free zones" responsible for all the deaths that civilian-owned firearms cause?

[August]

* Edit: just noticed that not all of the 12 incidents involved civilian 'good guys' anyway. I don't think anyone is arguing that U.S. law enforcement officers should be unarmed.

No three incidents didn't but in even among those:

Gross and Bridges lost valuable response time accessing their handguns because of the law school’s standing as a gun-free zone.

That doesn't take away from the other nine incidents though where mass shootings were minimized or outright prevented by civilians with a firearm.

[August]

And what about holding those who oppose "gun free zones" responsible for all the deaths that civilian-owned firearms cause?

Isn't that what you're trying to do by disarming potential victims?

[AndyJWest]

August, if you want to claim that easy access to firearms makes mass killings less likely, please provide the data. Not anecdotes, data.

[August]

August, if you want to claim that easy access to firearms makes mass killings less likely, please provide the data. Not anecdotes, data.

I don't claim any such thing although I am beginning to doubt that any proof would satisfy you if at least nine examples aren't good enough.

What I do believe however most firmly is that gun free zones are nothing but playgrounds for mass murderers where only the potential victims are disarmed. If you can prove me wrong then do so but opinion pieces are not proof.

[AndyJWest]

I don't claim any such thing although I am beginning to doubt that any proof would satisfy you if at least nine examples aren't good enough.

What I do believe however most firmly is that gun free zones are nothing but playgrounds for mass murderers where only the potential victims are disarmed. If you can prove me wrong then do so but opinion pieces are not proof.

Your beliefs aren't proof either.

[Platapus]

It will be interesting to observe how this test case works out. I am glad it is in Texas.

[August]

Your beliefs aren't proof either.

I'm not trying to prove anything to you, just saying that in my view the "you can imagine what will happen" argument is worthless. I have provided at least 9 examples that refute it and i'm sure if I kept looking i'd find many more.

The real obvious truth here is that the only people actually prevented from carrying firearms in a gun "free" zone are the potential victims, those who don't intend to cause anyone harm in the first place and care enough about the law to obey it. Prove me wrong but show me something besides opinion pieces.

Now if you think that walling off entire colleges and installing armed guard checkpoints and metal detectors in every doorway is better response than allowing properly licensed gun owners to carry concealed like they can everywhere else then more power to you but I disagree. If you won't do the former (and so far they haven't) then you have to allow the latter or you're telling people that their lives aren't as important as your political agenda.

[August]

It will be interesting to observe how this test case works out. I am glad it is in Texas.

Actually Texas is joins Arkansas, Colorado, Idaho, Kansas, Mississippi, Oregon, Utah, Tennessee and Wisconsin in that regard. 23 more states allow it if authorized by the school. So far no bloodbaths resulting.