When is it British and when is it English ?

[mapuc]

This has confused me for quit a while, since I posted a comment in an old thread-it was about the Scottish referendum

In this comment I wrote England and was corrected "British thank you" followed with a ":nope:"

I was like !!??!! and I'll tell you why

Only a few days earlier I saw a political commentator on Danish TV saying
(First in Danish)

Cameron har lovet de engelske vælgere at de skal til afstemning om EU inden 2017.

In English
Cameron have promised the English voters there will be a referendum about EU before 2017.

And some minutes ago I saw another member writing England should build a wall in the Brexit-thread.

So you now you know why I'm confused

Markus

[STEED]

Having a joke with our resident Scottish poster. :)

Hadrian's Wall
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadrian%27s_Wall

The Contemplator's Short History of The Jacobite Uprisings
http://www.contemplator.com/history/jacobite.html

And now to confuse you more, Northerners drink soft tap water while us Southerns drink hard tap water.
http://filterbutler.com/blog/hard-water-vs-soft-water-difference/

[Skybird]

This has confused me for quit a while, since I posted a comment in an old thread-it was about the Scottish referendum

In this comment I wrote England and was corrected "British thank you" followed with a ":nope:"

I was like !!??!! and I'll tell you why

Only a few days earlier I saw a political commentator on Danish TV saying
(First in Danish)

Cameron har lovet de engelske vælgere at de skal til afstemning om EU inden 2017.

In English
Cameron have promised the English voters there will be a referendum about EU before 2017.

And some minutes ago I saw another member writing England should build a wall in the Brexit-thread.

So you now you know why I'm confused

Markus
I may be wrong, but England, Scotland, Wales and a part of Ireland form a union called "United Kingdom" - or (Great) Britain. That alltogether is "British".

England is just one of these four entities forming Great Britian, and that is when you talk of "England, English".

Great Britian includes England, but England is not all Britain. Thats why they all have their own national teams as well, at least in football.

You can also differentiate the six "Celtic nations": Scotland, Ireland, Wales, Cornwall, Bretagne, and some small Isle that I now have forgotten. How "England" (which includes Cornwall and said Isle - Isle of Man, btw?) matches into this scheme, I do not know.

As I understand it, there is some - today light-handed - "animosity" between Englishmen and Scots, due to historic reasons (England oppressing Scotland for long time, "Braveheart" and all that stuff, and that was when it was much less light-handed an animosity :) ). Thats why you may have hit some nerve there, mapuc. As I see it, Scots are British - but NEVER ENGLISH. :D And if they leave the UK, they are not even that anymore.

[Betonov]

I wonder how things went before Yugoslavia fell apart.
I'm guessing there were some that responded to ''Slovene'' ''no, Yugoslavian''
And some responded to ''Yugoslavian'' as ''no, Slovene''

[Skybird]

I wonder how things went before Yugoslavia fell apart.
I'm guessing there were some that responded to ''Slovene'' ''no, Yugoslavian''
And some responded to ''Yugoslavian'' as ''no, Slovene''
Actually there were three kingdoms, those of the Slovenes - but also those of the Croats and Serbs. They were part of the Ottoman empire, later of the the Austrian-Hungarian monarchy.

[STEED]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-jr5KhRPnCeQ/VBi7_fL8jcI/AAAAAAAAAK8/WGW-BPZMyeE/s1600/components_of_the_uk_flag_scotland_england_ireland .png



As for the Welsh..

http://resources.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/geography/unionjack5.html

[Betonov]

Actually there were three kingdoms, those of the Slovenes - but also those of the Croats and Serbs. They were part of the Ottoman empire, later of the the Austrian-Hungarian monarchy.

Depends on the part of Yugoslavia.

Croatia and Slovenia were never Ottoman (raids not included), Bosnia and Macedonia were.
Croatia and Slovenia were under Austria, then Austria-Hungary and between world wars some parts were occupied by the Italians.

After WW1 the Country was briefly called kingdom of SHS (Serbs, Croats/Hrvati and Slovenes), before becoming the kingdom of Yugoslavia. SHS included all the later Yugoslav territories minus Istria.

under Titos Yugoslavia every state (Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia) had a small level of autonomy and it really depended on the person of he considered himself Slovene or Yugoslav.
I'm guessing the same problem exists if a person delares himself British or English.

[Oberon]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/35/British_Isles_terms.gif

And just to confuse things a bit more, throw in this:

http://static.onemansblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Difference-between-the-United-Kingdom-Great-Britain-and-England.jpg

[STEED]

And now Dave Allen in..

One Of The Funniest Comedy Sketches Of All Time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upEBdKFGlPg

You can't beat us Brits for comedy. :DL

[mapuc]

I wonder how things went before Yugoslavia fell apart.
I'm guessing there were some that responded to ''Slovene'' ''no, Yugoslavian''
And some responded to ''Yugoslavian'' as ''no, Slovene''

An off topic story which i remembered when I read you comment

It was about 94-95 I lived in Sweden at that time.

I was studying in a school for grown-ups

In the beginning I met a person from former Yugoslavia

He said I'm from (forgot the name of the town)
I said Where in Yugoslavia is that ?

He looked at me with some angry eyes and said
It's Croatia, Yugoslavia does not exist anymore.

Now we jump forward some month
A new student had arrived
We became friends and one day I asked him where he came from

I'm from (sorry can't remember the name of the town)
I said isn't that somewhere in Serbia

His response
Yugoslavia thank you.

Markus

[Tchocky]

And now Dave Allen in..



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upEBdKFGlPg

You can't be us Brits for comedy. :DL

Now you've done it, Dave Allen is Irish :arrgh!:

[Sailor Steve]

And don't forget the United Kingdom originally came about under a Scottish king - James I. :D

[ABBAFAN]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/35/British_Isles_terms.gif

And just to confuse things a bit more, throw in this:

http://static.onemansblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Difference-between-the-United-Kingdom-Great-Britain-and-England.jpg


Is the Irish Republic still considered part of the British Isles?

[STEED]

We in the UK or GB are a united divided nation of who go on about the weather and do you put milk in first or tea first and call our chips..chips. :)

[Von Due]

No wonder people get confused over this. I was in London about 20 years ago, and had to ask for directions. I thought I had a good grasp on the basics but I couldn't understand anything of what that old gentleman was saying. He was a Scotsman of course. 1st person I met and there was the Scotsman, with an accent thicker than oatmeal and cement. Not what I was expecting.

And the confused ones are legion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CozbhIX5Y0E

[Oberon]

Is the Irish Republic still considered part of the British Isles?

AFAIK it is, but not part of Great Britain. The British Isles is more of a geographical terminology than a political one.

[Nippelspanner]

The Difference between the United Kingdom, Great Britain and England Explained (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNu8XDBSn10)

[fireftr18]

I thought I had a good handle on it. I'm completely confused now. :timeout:

[Betonov]

An off topic story which i remembered when I read you comment

It was about 94-95 I lived in Sweden at that time.

I was studying in a school for grown-ups

In the beginning I met a person from former Yugoslavia

He said I'm from (forgot the name of the town)
I said Where in Yugoslavia is that ?

He looked at me with some angry eyes and said
It's Croatia, Yugoslavia does not exist anymore.

Now we jump forward some month
A new student had arrived
We became friends and one day I asked him where he came from

I'm from (sorry can't remember the name of the town)
I said isn't that somewhere in Serbia

His response
Yugoslavia thank you.

Markus

In the nineties, during the war, Serbia was still named Yugoslavia. And was at war wirh Croatia. So the Serb saying he's from Yugoslavia didn't mean the federation that existed between 1945-1991, but the smaller entity which later renamed itself to Serbia.
And the fact that they were at war with eachother, you're lucky that Croat didn't punch you.

[Reece]

You can't be us Brits for comedy. :DL
I would say for music as well, certainly back in the 60's and 70's!!:yep:

[limkol]

I often hear people in the Danish media refer to everyone in the British Isles as 'englænder' (Englishmen), whether they are Scots, Welsh, English or Irish. They seem to think that the word 'English' is the same as 'British'. This is incorrect and some people might take offense over it. I'm surprised that educated people in the national media and politics do not have a better knowledge of history or at least geography.
NEVER call a Scot, a Welshman or even worse an Irishman 'English'. NEVER EVER call an Irishman 'British'.

[Jimbuna]

I may be wrong, but England, Scotland, Wales and a part of Ireland form a union called "United Kingdom" - or (Great) Britain. That alltogether is "British".

England is just one of these four entities forming Great Britian, and that is when you talk of "England, English".

Great Britian includes England, but England is not all Britain. Thats why they all have their own national teams as well, at least in football.

You can also differentiate the six "Celtic nations": Scotland, Ireland, Wales, Cornwall, Bretagne, and some small Isle that I now have forgotten. How "England" (which includes Cornwall and said Isle - Isle of Man, btw?) matches into this scheme, I do not know.

As I understand it, there is some - today light-handed - "animosity" between Englishmen and Scots, due to historic reasons (England oppressing Scotland for long time, "Braveheart" and all that stuff, and that was when it was much less light-handed an animosity :) ). Thats why you may have hit some nerve there, mapuc. As I see it, Scots are British - but NEVER ENGLISH. :D And if they leave the UK, they are not even that anymore.

You are very correct Sky, I personally know some people in my locality who would have trouble bettering that explanation.

[Catfish]

So, what is Australia And Canada ? Never part of the UK (?), but belonged to the Commonwealth. But not anymore.. :hmmm:

[Von Due]

So, what is Australia And Canada ? Never part of the UK (?), but belonged to the Commonwealth. But not anymore.. :hmmm:

Now part of the Uncommonwealth. The Commonwealth is a total mystery to me. How does it work in a practical sense?

[Reece]

Basically we're still owned by England, we were discovered and settled by English settlers. Until we vote for our independence and become a republic we belong to the UK, I personally want our ties to persist if for no other reason than security.:hmmm:
America used to belong to England until their fight for independence.

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Basically we're still owned by England, we were discovered and settled by English settlers. Until we vote for our independence and become a republic we belong to the UK, I personally want our ties to persist if for no other reason than security.:hmmm:
America used to belong to England until their fight for independence.At the time when Australia was found and seized was that captain an Englishman or Briton (latter in reference to modern concept not Roman times)? Also is your allegiance still only to England (if it everwas) or instead to the United Kingdom as whole?

[Oberon]

Canada and Aus are still part of the Commonwealth, there are 53 nations in the Commonwealth and 16 of them have the Queen as technical monarch but membership of the Commonwealth is not dependent on accepting the Queen as anything other than the Head of the Commonwealth but with no powers over the organisation.

It is a bit complicated, but as de-colonisation processes go, it worked out quite well. A bit bloody in some places, but better than the fall of Rome.

[Catfish]

So.. Australia belongs to the UK? Officially?
I thought it was how Skybird put it .. -> completely confused

But you do not have a say in the EU vote :hmmm:
You can partake in the Eurovision song contest though :D:doh:

[Reece]

Labor here in Australia tried to change us to a republic way back in the 70's, IIRC, but the Queen said straight out that it has to be put to the public in a referendum before she'd even consider it. Good on her!!:salute:

[Von Due]

You can partake in the Eurovision song contest though :D:doh:

Kevin Bloody Wilson would be a breath of fresh air for sure.

[Oberon]

At the time when Australia was found and seized was that captain an Englishman or Briton (latter in reference to modern concept not Roman times)? Also is your allegiance still only to England (if it everwas) or instead to the United Kingdom as whole?

I believe we first established colonies in Aus in 1788, and Captain Cook made contact with the Eastern coastline during his first voyage between 1768 and 1771, and the Union between England/Wales and Scotland was signed in 1707/1708 which is when the Kingdom of Great Britain came into being. So Cook would have been British by birth, having been born in 1728.

[Oberon]

So.. Australia belongs to the UK? Officially?
I thought it was how Skybird put it .. -> completely confused

But you do not have a say in the EU vote :hmmm:
You can partake in the Eurovision song contest though :D:doh:

Well...yes and no, the Prime Minister of Australia technically defers to the Governor-General who defers to the Queen but it very rarely ever goes that way. The last time I think the Governor-General had to get involved in things was during a Constitutional Crisis in 1975.
But yes, she does still have a fair bit of power but it's only really left to her in the knowledge that she will only ever use it in the direst of circumstances. Which is one of the reasons why the British political system is very jittery about the idea of Charles getting the throne because unlike Elizabeth he prefers to take a more direct role in political affairs and has his own pro-environmental agenda, which while I think is noble, will result in a lot of bad blood between parliament and crown if he tries to exercise too much of the power he has.

[MGR1]

The best way to describe the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is thus: Two Kingdoms, a Principality and a Province. That's England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland respectively.

All the same, but all different.:03:

Mike.:O:

[Jimbuna]

Well...yes and no, the Prime Minister of Australia technically defers to the Governor-General who defers to the Queen but it very rarely ever goes that way. The last time I think the Governor-General had to get involved in things was during a Constitutional Crisis in 1975.
But yes, she does still have a fair bit of power but it's only really left to her in the knowledge that she will only ever use it in the direst of circumstances. Which is one of the reasons why the British political system is very jittery about the idea of Charles getting the throne because unlike Elizabeth he prefers to take a more direct role in political affairs and has his own pro-environmental agenda, which while I think is noble, will result in a lot of bad blood between parliament and crown if he tries to exercise too much of the power he has.

In truth I'd rather Charles gave way to William when the next heir accedes to the throne but I can't honestly seeing that happen, he's waited so long bless his little jug ears.

[MGR1]

He may have a while to wait if the Queen lives as long as the Queen Mum. Perhaps the Queen's deliberately trying to outlive Charles so the throne goes directly to William!:03:

Mike.

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

In truth I'd rather Charles gave way to William when the next heir accedes to the throne but I can't honestly seeing that happen, he's waited so long bless his little jug ears.Is there precedent for such arrangement? Wouldn't Charles abstinence change the line of succession with throne passing to Duke of York or Princess Royal instead of Duke of Cambridge? :hmmm:

[Jimbuna]

Is there precedent for such arrangement? Wouldn't Charles abstinence change the line of succession with throne passing to Duke of York or Princess Royal instead of Duke of Cambridge? :hmmm:

Couldn't say for sure without delving into it but I wouldn't have thought so.

[mapuc]

So Britain is England, Wales and Scotland.

If I meet a person in London, I guess he or she would say

I'm British person

What about a person from Wales or Scotland ? Would they say

I'm British or would they say I'm Walish(correct spelling ?) person or I'm Scottish person ?

Markus

[Von Due]

So Britain is England, Wales and Scotland.

If I meet a person in London, I guess he or she would say

I'm British person

What about a person from Wales or Scotland ? Would they say

I'm British or would they say I'm Walish(correct spelling ?) person or I'm Scottish person ?

Markus

Knowing a Welshman, I can say with absolute certainty that as far as he's concerned, he's British and Welsh alike, just never EVER call him English :haha:

Same for the Scottish people I met. Scottish and British alike, although the ones supporting the idea of separation would be more likely to say they're Scottish and would frown upon being called British but they wouldn't totally disagree. The ones supporting the union would be more likely to say British but wouldn't mind if you said Scottish.

In my experience, of course.