Underwater appearance issue (Banding)

[Balladeer]

Hey folks. I'f memory serves, I've always struggled with this issue across multiple PCs. My underwater view has all kinds of unsightly banding which is bumming me out. Water needs to be one continuous, clear medium. I tried turning of sun rays underwater just to see if it would help and it doesn't. I don't know if its an issue with the game or a setting like gamma or even if certain anti-aliasings might cause it. I don't know but I'm at my ropes end. I'm pretty certain I've watched youtube vids and others appear not to have this issue.

Any ideas? Does anyone else have this problem? I'm running SH4 v1.5 with FOTRS. Is it less noticeable in shallow water? I tried downloading the water view distance mod but I'm at my max downloads for today but I'm not sure that will help me. Is there a mod I can use to adjust this? All things considered I can live with it but it would help immersion as its really kind of ugly looking. I've never had issues with my six year old monitor. It runs at 1920X1080 60Hz.

[cdrsubron7]

Hey folks. I'f memory serves, I've always struggled with this issue across multiple PCs. My underwater view has all kinds of unsightly banding which is bumming me out. Water needs to be one continuous, clear medium. I tried turning of sun rays underwater just to see if it would help and it doesn't. I don't know if its an issue with the game or a setting like gamma or even if certain anti-aliasings might cause it. I don't know but I'm at my ropes end. I'm pretty certain I've watched youtube vids and others appear not to have this issue.

Any ideas? Does anyone else have this problem? I'm running SH4 v1.5 with FOTRS. Is it less noticeable in shallow water? I tried downloading the water view distance mod but I'm at my max downloads for today but I'm not sure that will help me. Is there a mod I can use to adjust this? All things considered I can live with it but it would help immersion as its really kind of ugly looking. I've never had issues with my six year old monitor. It runs at 1920X1080 60Hz.

What graphics setup are you using?

[Balladeer]

I run an EVGA GTX 970 4GB. I've set all game settings to max. I'm also using the suggested Nvidia Inspector settings listed here at this site. Basically 4X Multisampling with 8X Supersampling and FXAA on. Adjusting these don't seem to affect it.

It gets to where the water looks like a gradient scale with visible lines between various similar colors. It almost seems as though it has to do with lighting. Vanilla looks the same underwater as does with FOTRS and living breathing seas activated. I'd post a picture but I don't have a site I can upload it to.

[cdrsubron7]

I run an EVGA GTX 970 4GB. I've set all game settings to max. I'm also using the suggested Nvidia Inspector settings listed here at this site. Basically 4X Multisampling with 8X Supersampling and FXAA on. Adjusting these don't seem to affect it.

It gets to where the water looks like a gradient scale with visible lines between various similar colors. It almost seems as though it has to do with lighting. Vanilla looks the same underwater as does with FOTRS and living breathing seas activated. I'd post a picture but I don't have a site I can upload it to.


Are you running any other mods besides FOTRS? Any environmental mods or such?

[cdrsubron7]

One other suggestion, Balladeer. I'm using the same graphics card as you and am not having the problems that you are. Try shutting of the Nvidia Inspector off and see if that solves your problem. :yep:

[Rockin Robbins]

I run an EVGA GTX 970 4GB. I've set all game settings to max. I'm also using the suggested Nvidia Inspector settings listed here at this site. Basically 4X Multisampling with 8X Supersampling and FXAA on. Adjusting these don't seem to affect it.

It gets to where the water looks like a gradient scale with visible lines between various similar colors. It almost seems as though it has to do with lighting. Vanilla looks the same underwater as does with FOTRS and living breathing seas activated. I'd post a picture but I don't have a site I can upload it to.
Yes, that is called banding. Usually that will be caused by having Windows set at 256 colors or 13,768 colors instead of the Windows equivalent of millions of colors. If your Windows setting is for not enough colors nothing the game can do will change that.

Check that out first.:up:

[Balladeer]

How do I know if windows is using 256 or millions of colors? I just re-calibrated my monitor through Windows. When I check my display its set at true 32 bit under the color tab.

I'm using FOTRS, living and breathing ocean and real environment.

[limkol]

I have the same problem with SH3 and ARMA, so I doubt that it is game related. The banding problem occurs both underwater and in the sky.
Is it monitor related, graphic card or a windows setting problem as Rockin Robins suggests?

[Rockin Robbins]

How do I know if windows is using 256 or millions of colors? I just re-calibrated my monitor through Windows. When I check my display its set at true 32 bit under the color tab.

I'm using FOTRS, living and breathing ocean and real environment.
Okay 32-bit color is what we're talking about, but here's your problem, Vern! You are using both Living Breathing Ocean and Real Environment. Those are two graphics mega-mods. That means that both make many, many changes to the game, some of which are mutually exclusive. Both assume you start with a stock game.

Use one or the other, but not both and I'll bet your problem vanishes. You might have to reinstall the game to ensure you start with purely stock settings before applying the mod. I'd just pull the mods out IN LAST IN FIRST OUT ORDER! with JSGME, and then install one of them. Your problem should vanish.

[Benzin1973]

Im having the exact same problem.
Tried vanilla, and about 3 diferent enviroment mods (one at a time), and the problem wont go away.
Also tried tweaking with my nvidia settings. No Go.

If anyone finds a solution, i would really like to hear it, this issue is ruining my game. :(

[Balladeer]

Thanks for all the tips everyone. I realized already that there were conflicts to be had running two environment mods. However this issue still remains no matter if I run the stock game or modded.(I have always witnessed this issue even before modding the game going back to SH3) Its always there. Nothing I did in adjusting my monitor or nvidia settings altered it in any way either.

Its not so overbearing that I can't live with it. I'm really starting to think its just the way the engine handles lighting in the game. If I hit the down view key(numpad 1)while underwater, eventually I get past all the different subtle "lines". When I hit the deep water, it eventually all becomes one solid, consistent color, a deep, blueish black and there is no banding. So I think it has to do with lighting. This depth and area must be where the game engine's light can no longer travel. Even though its deep, dark water I can still see the difference. I can see that its all one blended color unlike what is found above this layer.

[Benzin1973]

Balladeer: Does it also happen with the sky when you look thru the persicope sometimes during night?

For me this is the most annoying. It seems to happen when its night and there is a little fog.

[Balladeer]

I don't remember off hand but I will check.

On a side note, why does my avatar picture keep changing lol? Have I been promoted?

[Balladeer]

Balladeer: Does it also happen with the sky when you look thru the persicope sometimes during night?

For me this is the most annoying. It seems to happen when its night and there is a little fog.


Yep its in the sky too. I just found out on my end something too. I assumed I had an hdmi connection to my monitor because that's how my video card is connected. However I forgot when I got this new computer almost two years ago, I actually didn't have and hdmi to hdmi cord. It was actually a DVI to hdmi. I found an hdmi to hdmi cable and set up my monitor again.(I guess I haven't really been running anything of mine in proper HD? lol oh well.

However this did not change anything either. I could be wrong but I think some of us, including myself might be being a bit over compulsive with this. I still think it should look better but I think its just because its an older game engine. I hope to get a nice gaming monitor someday that will catch up in quality and technology-wise to my gaming. That's not something I always think about but maybe this will change someday if I can get a nice, 4K or otherwise gaming specific monitor.

[Benzin1973]

I dont think the culpit is the monitor or the way its connected. My PC is certainly not a "top of the line gaming monster" eiter, But I have about 120 other games ranging from "relics" such as quake & quake 2, to more recent ones like Assassins creed, madmax, etc. And i only have this issue with SH4.

In SH3, with the GWX3 mod, i do get a little banding on the night sky sometimes, but nothing like SH4. SH5 runs fine too (well, as "fine" as sh5 can run! lol).

I think its something in the SH4 engine not "getting along" with nvidia card drivers.
It doesnt make the game unplayable, but its bad enough that i have trouble seeing the target sometimes. When looking thru the periscope, The banding happens not only on the tones of the night sky, but also arround the "lens effect" of the periscope itself.
Ill take a screenshot and post it here.

[Balladeer]

I dont think the culpit is the monitor or the way its connected. My PC is certainly not a "top of the line gaming monster" eiter, But I have about 120 other games ranging from "relics" such as quake & quake 2, to more recent ones like Assassins creed, madmax, etc. And i only have this issue with SH4.

In SH3, with the GWX3 mod, i do get a little banding on the night sky sometimes, but nothing like SH4. SH5 runs fine too (well, as "fine" as sh5 can run! lol).

I think its something in the SH4 engine not "getting along" with nvidia card drivers.
It doesnt make the game unplayable, but its bad enough that i have trouble seeing the target sometimes. When looking thru the periscope, The banding happens not only on the tones of the night sky, but also arround the "lens effect" of the periscope itself.
Ill take a screenshot and post it here.

I agree as well. I think its something in the engine, maybe light rendering related. I have other games with space or water and its usually a consistent, transitioned color. But like you say it may be something a driver would fix I just don't know. If I find a photo upload site I like(haven't used one in years)I'll post a screen capture too.

[limkol]

Like I said above, I have the issue with Silent Hunter series and ARMA. ARMA is not an old game, so i doubt that it is just the game that gives the problem. But I'm just guessing:06:.
I installed SH3 on my son's laptop and it renders the sky and underwater fine without banding.

[cdrsubron7]

If I find a photo upload site I like(haven't used one in years)I'll post a screen capture too.


I use Tinypic.com (http://tinypic.com/). It's free and easy to use. :yep:

[cdrsubron7]

I installed SH3 on my son's laptop and it renders the sky and underwater fine without banding.

What kind of graphics card does your son's laptop use?

[limkol]

@cdrsubron7: It's an AMD Radeon R5 as far as I remember. Just don't know which one.

[cdrsubron7]

@cdrsubron7: It's an AMD Radeon R5 as far as I remember. Just don't know which one.

And the graphics card on your PC is?

[Rockin Robbins]

And banding is always caused by the graphics engine not having enough colors to choose from. In photography we call it posterization and it is purposely caused by limiting the color pallet.

[limkol]

@cdrsubron7:
Sorry for not replying sooner, just got a new labrador pup!
My graphic card is an Nvidia GeForce 460.

Sorry to hijack Balladeer's thread...but I'm sure many people have the same banding problem. Would be nice to know if it could be cured and if so, is it a newer graphic card, monitor or different cable set up that needs looking at....or is it just time for a newer computer?

[Benzin1973]

:hmmm: So this seems to happen to those of use who have nvidia cards. And the people with AMDs dont seem to have the problem.

limkol, i dont think its an issue of outdated hardware. Balladeer has a GTX 970, thats a high end card capable of running most (all?) modern AAA games (fallout 4, mad max, gta 5, etc), it shouldnt even break a sweat running sh4.

Personally i have a GTX750ti, wich is "lower on the ladder" than a 970, and its still more than enough to run SH4. Even SH5 runs at over 60FPS.

Im betting that its either some "tweak" we need to do to our nvidia settings, or some incompatibility between the nvidia drivers and SH4. Lets hope its the former!

[LGN1]

Hi,

I'm suffering from the same problem, but I have a AMD Radeon HD 6970 :wah:

Best, LGN1

[propbeanie]

I could have ~sworn~ that I posted a reply in here... but the brain, it eez strange, eez eet not?... Anyway, on the nVidia web site forum, there are all sorts of complaints about the same banding issue in "games" - a lot of games. Some say it's AA, others say it's something else. I did a search and found a vid on ToobYu, and the guy sets his refresh rate from 60Hz to 59.999. Now, how that helps, if it even does, I do not know (mind over reality?). Another fellow on the 3d guru site mentions using some freeware "tool" that can adjust the AA (and other) settings of an nVidia card. Again, how useful it actually is, I don't know...

[max-peck]

Hate to suggest anything obvious - but have you tried turning off the 'light rays' in your graphics options? :)

[Benzin1973]

Have tried changing every setting. Light rays, post effects, etc. And combinations of those settings. No go :(

[CaptainC]

This is still an issue, no fix was ever found eh?