Graphics Show Difference Between World's Three Types of Aircraft Carriers

[cdrsubron7]

Interesting Article and informing. :yeah:

http://www.businessinsider.com/these-graphics-show-the-crucial-differences-between-the-worlds-3-types-of-aircraft-carriers-2016-6?yptr=yahoo?r=UK&IR=T

[Jimbuna]

Most interesting. I never realised there were so many variants out there.

I've moved this topic to a more appropriate area.

[Dallsim]

I highly enjoyed reading this article. Especially seeing the different model types and which countries they belonged to. I was a little sad that the video shown was so short! I could have watched an hour footage if available for such a large aircraft carrier.

I actually hoped there existed simulators for consoles or PC but was told no such games exist for the moment.

Also, being a fan of Top Gun (don't laugh!), I researched the aircraft carrier that was in Top Gun, the USS Enterprise, learning that it was the "longest naval vessel ever built". 342m (Enterprise) vs its successor USS Gerald R. Ford at 337m :)

Anyone here been on either one?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Enterprise_(CVN-65)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Gerald_R._Ford

[CaptBones]

I was Assistant Chief of Staff (N4) of Battle Group 'Foxtrot' Commander's staff (COMCRUDESGRU 3) in ENTERPRISE in '88 and on her "Around the World Cruise" with LONG BEACH (CGN-9) in '89-'90. We were there when filming for scenes in "The Hunt for Red October" was done in June '89.

Also served in CONSTELLATION, INDEPENDENCE and MIDWAY before that. I've got my own "videos" from each of those deployments, some 8mm films and quite a few hours of VHS tapes. I suppose I should dig them out and get them converted to DVD or something. My favorite is an hour of footage I shot during PACEX '89 from the Flag Bridge on ENTERPRISE, including the MISSOURI and NEW JERSEY steaming in column "Passing in Review" and unleashing "broadsides" during a firepower demo. The winds were very light and after a couple of rounds from each turret of both ships, the cordite smoke was hanging in the air around them as they steamed downwind from the carriers and all you could see was their upper works above the smoke and the flashes of subsequent rounds being fired. The broadsides were a continuous ripple firing from both battleships and I imagined it was probably quite like the scene on the "Windy Corner" at Jutland.

In my civilian career after retiring from active duty, I was VP of Engineering at Fairbanks Morse Engine and responsible for designing and building the Emergency Diesel Generators for the propulsion plant in FORD. I was sad to see the old ENTERPRISE decommissioned, but happy that the third ship in the FORD Class will be a new ENTERPRISE (CVN-80).

[Osmium Steele]

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/1947679_590750131076242_1648025062691690995_n.jpg? oh=6f94526b1f2846918cd2172eae28da07&oe=583985C2

Closest I've been since back in the day when you walk directly to the ship and request a tour.

Eisenhower on the left. George Washington on the right. Norfolk Naval Base, Norfolk, Virginia.

[Mr Quatro]

Also, being a fan of Top Gun (don't laugh!), I researched the aircraft carrier that was in Top Gun, the USS Enterprise, learning that it was the "longest naval vessel ever built". 342m (Enterprise) vs its successor USS Gerald R. Ford at 337m :)

Anyone here been on either one?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Enterprise_(CVN-65)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Gerald_R._Ford

We don't laugh at airdale lovers :haha:

seriously the USS Gerald R. Ford is a PCU (pre commissioning unit) she hasn't gone into service yet, but she will be the first and the best of her class, but probably not till early next year.

and @CaptBones I bet you have some great sea stories as for the battleship firing broadsides ... I heard that in WW II the cost of firing one shell from her 16" guns was like firing a Cadillac. I don't know what a Cadillac cost back then, but sounds like a lot, uh?

[Dallsim]

I was Assistant Chief of Staff (N4) of Battle Group 'Foxtrot' Commander's staff (COMCRUDESGRU 3) in ENTERPRISE in '88 and on her "Around the World Cruise" with LONG BEACH (CGN-9) in '89-'90. We were there when filming for scenes in "The Hunt for Red October" was done in June '89.

Wow, impressive. I have only seen this film as a child and did not really understand what was happening. I am watching this film on Blu-ray later this week together with Das Boot. Any other submarine films I should be on the lookout for?

I've got my own "videos" from each of those deployments, some 8mm films and quite a few hours of VHS tapes. I suppose I should dig them out and get them converted to DVD or something.

I suppose it will take a while to get those converted but those will certainly be total gems for outsiders like me!

In my civilian career after retiring from active duty, I was VP of Engineering at Fairbanks Morse Engine and responsible for designing and building the Emergency Diesel Generators for the propulsion plant in FORD. I was sad to see the old ENTERPRISE decommissioned, but happy that the third ship in the FORD Class will be a new ENTERPRISE (CVN-80).

This is seriously impressive. So your legacy lives on and is transferred to the new Enterprise (CVN-80) through your design and building of the emergency diesel generator? Your family and the rest of America will continue to be proud of your excellent contributions and efforts :)

We don't laugh at airdale lovers

Sorry, but what are airdale lovers? I only know of the dog breed, haha.

[CaptBones]

First...in the USN, an airdale is a Naval Aviator...originally officers who earned their "Wings of Gold", but nowadays it seems to be applied (in an affectionate and respectful manner!) to any aviation type, officer or enlisted.

Submarine films...too many for me to even try to list them all. Even though it's not my primary source for accurate information, Wikipedia has a very extensive list of submarine movies. I'm not a movie critic, but I am critical of movies about the Navy...

The newer sub flicks, such as "Das Boot", "...Red October", "Crimson Tide", "K-19: The Widowmaker", "U-571" are usually very good in the sets and scenes and reasonably good for technical accuracy (considering the need to provide audiences with excessive drama and over-the-top special effects).

The older ones, such as "Run Silent, Run Deep", "Up Periscope", "The Enemy Below", and "Destination Tokyo" are often lacking in accurate sets and scenes (the almost laughable depictions of the sea floor always give me a chuckle!) and are sometimes very poor in technical accuracy. But they still have the drama and as much exciting special effects a was possible in the era they were made (not as ridiculously overblown as the digital special effects and CGI graphics used in movies today).

CVN-80...one of the little "factoids" that was talked about during the design development stage of the EDG sets for the "FORD" Class, was that we were tasked to provide a 50-year design life and a 50-year service life. Which means that the equipment was to be in production for the next 50 years (starting in 2008) and the last of the ships would be in service for 50 years after that...my great-great grandchildren could still be operating "my" machines in those ships (my younger son was a nuc submariner, is a LCDR currently at NATO HQ in London...I don't know if his son will follow in our footsteps or not, we'll have to wait and see).

BTW...you might find it interesting that the "ENTERPRISE" (CVN-80) will be the first of the new class to have a completely new hull design; the first two ships of the class ("FORD" and "JOHN F KENNEDY") are being built on the same hull design as the "NIMITZ" Class. That created some problems to squeeze our four 4mW generator sets into the same two spaces as the four 2mW generator sets in the "NIMITZ" Class...hopefully there'll be some "elbow room" in the new hull design.

Thanks again for your kind words...:salute:

[Osmium Steele]

I'm not a movie critic, but I am critical of movies about the Navy...

This... yes! :Kaleun_Thumbs_Up:

And I will never again watch Crimson Tide. Talk about stretching plausibility to the breaking point. I spent the majority of the film thinking, "THAT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN!" until it actually came blurting out.

I left the theatre angry.

[Dallsim]

And I will never again watch Crimson Tide. Talk about stretching plausibility to the breaking point. I spent the majority of the film thinking, "THAT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN!" until it actually came blurting out.

I left the theatre angry.

I went to the video rental shop to see if they had Das Boot and Red October on Blu-Ray. Unfortunately they did not have any of those at the particular rental shop I went to, but they DID however have Crimson Tide :)

I guess I should skip this film and look for the others elsewhere... Or would you say that the level of plausability won't even be noticed by non submarine enthusiast?

[mapuc]

I could be remembering wrong

First time I saw Crimson Tide was at the cinema

Before the credits came after the end of the movies

A text told us that the movie was based on a war game

and then a lot more about some upcoming changes in the way a sub can fire nuke a.s.o

Markus

[Osmium Steele]

I guess I should skip this film and look for the others elsewhere... Or would you say that the level of plausability won't even be noticed by non submarine enthusiast?

Definitely see it. It is well shot, Denzel and Hackman's performances are very good. Just don't expect procedural accuracy. The ending was all wishful thinking as well. Never would have happened like that.

[Sailor Steve]

Definitely see Das Boot. Get the 5-hour 'Uncut' version if you can.
Avoid U-571 like the plague.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=104539&highlight=Movies

[Dallsim]

Definitely see Das Boot. Get the 5-hour 'Uncut' version if you can.

I will begin to apologise if I seem to be highjacking the thread, but I have now finally seen Das Boot and have a few questions related.

In the beginning of the film, before boarding the submarine at La Rochelle, they mention something about bolts or screws that had to be changed. Was this because they were noisy, which would give away their position when turned, or was it because they were worn and would not survive too high a water pressure?

When they shoot the "tanker" (German) and realise that the crew still remained on the ship, they are forced to leave them behind to die. Is this because of lack of supplies and space in the submarine, or would they be worried that, if they were to attack the enemy, the prisoners would scream or make noise alerting the Destroyers? Why weren't the onboard passengers rescued in the first place? Was it deliberately done so as not to spoil the fact that Enigma was cracked?

The Navigator who got shot by the fighter plane luckily survived but what happens to crew members who die? How do you dispose of the body/bodies? Would they be flushed out or kept in a special room?

When they got stuck under water, they used oxygen masks while sleeping. How long would suck an oxygen last for then compared to nowadays?

One of the most remarkable things about the film were how they managed to repair the submarine. I cannot even imagine the engineering skill that is needed to be on a submarine! I mean, you would have to have MULTIPLE people who could fix or repair damage, especially since there is a chance of injury and death during the voyage. What type of training does the lowest level of naval marine go through before being eligable on a submarine?

Seriously, this film was absolutely brilliant. We both loved it and was surprised how quickly 3 1/2 hours went by! I know there is a TV series out that goes by the same name. Is it worth a watch or should I see the other submarine related films first, like Red October, Crimson Tides etc?

[Sailor Steve]

In the beginning of the film, before boarding the submarine at La Rochelle, they mention something about bolts or screws that had to be changed. Was this because they were noisy, which would give away their position when turned, or was it because they were worn and would not survive too high a water pressure?
"Screw" is the American naval term for "propeller". They had to change one of them because it was noisy. Oddly, in underwater scenes later in the movie you can hear one of them squeaking. Was it the shaft that should have been replaced? Did they replace the wrong one. Am I just hearing things?

When they shoot the "tanker" (German) and realise that the crew still remained on the ship, they are forced to leave them behind to die. Is this because of lack of supplies and space in the submarine, or would they be worried that, if they were to attack the enemy, the prisoners would scream or make noise alerting the Destroyers? Why weren't the onboard passengers rescued in the first place? Was it deliberately done so as not to spoil the fact that Enigma was cracked?
You must have seen a shorter version of the film. In the five-hour 'Original, Uncut' version they actually have a discussion about that. When the reporter, Lt Werner, asks the Old Man why, he replies "We barely have room on this boat for the fifty men assigned to her. How many would you have rescued? One? Ten? A Hundred?"

In order to rescue survivors in a convoy the rescuing ship would have to come to a complete stop for several minutes. This is practically begging for the attacking u-boat to sink the rescuing ship. That is exactly what happened in the First World War when Otto Weddigen in U-9 attacked the British armoured cruisers Aboukir, Cressy and Hogue. Weddigen torpedoed one of them and, thinking it had hit a mine, moved in to rescue survivors from the water. While the second ship was thus stopped, Weddigen torpedoed it, and then the same for the third. In World War 2 they considered it suicide to go back and pick people up. Later in the war they would have a ship assigned to the rear of the convoy for just that reason. Sometimes a U-boat captain would even allow one merchant to pick up survivors from the others he had sunk.

The Navigator who got shot by the fighter plane luckily survived but what happens to crew members who die? How do you dispose of the body/bodies? Would they be flushed out or kept in a special room? Generally the body is wrapped in cloth with a lead or steel weight attached. Then the body is allowed to slide over the side into the water. This is called "Burial At Sea", and is one of the highest honors a sailor can be accorded.

When they got stuck under water, they used oxygen masks while sleeping. How long would suck an oxygen last for then compared to nowadays? The kind they used? Maybe twenty minutes. Their main function was for working in a compartment - such as the batteries - that had been flooded with toxic gasses. Also possibly for escaping the sub if it is sunk in very shallow water.

One of the most remarkable things about the film were how they managed to repair the submarine. I cannot even imagine the engineering skill that is needed to be on a submarine! I mean, you would have to have MULTIPLE people who could fix or repair damage, especially since there is a chance of injury and death during the voyage. What type of training does the lowest level of naval marine go through before being eligable on a submarine? In the US Navy pretty much everyone cross-trains in different skills. In the German Navy at that time, I'm not sure, but I think they were pretty big on keeping different jobs isolated. That said, in the military everyone is trained to follow orders. It only takes one man in any section to know how to fix things in his own compartment. All the rest have to do is what they're told. I was a radioman on a destroyer, but I also worked as a mess-cook (not actually cooking, but cleaning up), a "runner" (carrying messages to the bridge), and a lookout.

Seriously, this film was absolutely brilliant. We both loved it and was surprised how quickly 3 1/2 hours went by! I know there is a TV series out that goes by the same name. Is it worth a watch or should I see the other submarine related films first, like Red October, Crimson Tides etc?Okay, you saw the 'Director's Cut'. The miniseries runs at just under 5 hours, and explains a lot of things the shorter versions don't. It's available under the title 'The Original Uncut Version', and is edited to be one continuous movie. While the Director's Cut is technically superior, with remastered video and sound, the latter version adds so much to the story that I won't even watch the shorter versions anymore.

[Dallsim]

Thanks, Sailor Steve, for answering all the questions :)

You must have seen a shorter version of the film. In the five-hour 'Original, Uncut' version they actually have a discussion about that.

Okay, you saw the 'Director's Cut'. The miniseries runs at just under 5 hours, and explains a lot of things the shorter versions don't.

Yeah, we bought the Blu-ray version of the "Director's Cut". I saw they had the TV series on Blu-ray as well, which lasts over 5 hours and comes with English subtitles:
https://www.amazon.de/Das-Boot-TV-Fassung-Ungek%C3%BCrzte-Fassung/dp/B00LPXQ67M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1474356151&sr=8-1&keywords=das+boot+blu+ray

Is this more or less the same as the "Original Uncut Version" on DVD here, apart from it running as episodes rather than being edited as a non stop 5 hour film?
https://www.amazon.com/Das-Boot-Original-Uncut-Version/dp/B0001XAOLQ/ref=sr_1_1?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1474356612&sr=1-1&keywords=das+boot+the+original+uncut+version

Generally the body is wrapped in cloth with a lead or steel weight attached. Then the body is allowed to slide over the side into the water. This is called "Burial At Sea", and is one of the highest honors a sailor can be accorded.

If an individual or multiple people were killed, and you could not rise to the top due to still being hunted, where would dead bodies be put if they were forced to be under water for several days? Is it possible, although not appropriate, to dispose of bodies while submerged, or would they endure the days it takes before it's safe for the submarine to ascent?

I was a radioman on a destroyer, but I also worked as a mess-cook (not actually cooking, but cleaning up), a "runner" (carrying messages to the bridge), and a lookout.

How different is it to be a radioman on a Destroyer compared to one on a submarine? In Das Boot, Maat Hinrich is the radioman and sonar controller. We see him constantly with his headset on listening for nearby enemies. Would you, as a radioman on a Destroyer, be on the lookout for submerged submarines using sonar? Maat Hinrich VS Sailor Steve :)

[Sailor Steve]

Is this more or less the same as the "Original Uncut Version" on DVD here, apart from it running as episodes rather than being edited as a non stop 5 hour film?
It looks like it. They list the running time as 308 minutes, vs 252 minutes on the version I have. I would love to have a copy cut into episodes, which would make it much easier to watch over several days. On the other hand the British version says "Miniseries", but I understand it's still one long movie, so don't be surprised if the German version is cut that way too.

If an individual or multiple people were killed, and you could not rise to the top due to still being hunted, where would dead bodies be put if they were forced to be under water for several days?
That I don't know, having never served on a sub. We do have several ex-bubbleheads here, so one of them might be able to answer your question.

Is it possible, although not appropriate, to dispose of bodies while submerged, or would they endure the days it takes before it's safe for the submarine to ascent?
In the movie Run Silent, Run Deep they shoot a dead sailor out a torpedo tube along with a bunch of debris, in an attempt to fool the Japanese into thinking they had been sunk. I don't know if any captain ever actually did that, but when I first saw the movie as a little kid I thought it was a great idea.

How different is it to be a radioman on a Destroyer compared to one on a submarine?
I don't know, never having served on a sub, but I imagine it's not very different.

In Das Boot, Maat Hinrich is the radioman and sonar controller. We see him constantly with his headset on listening for nearby enemies. Would you, as a radioman on a Destroyer, be on the lookout for submerged submarines using sonar? Maat Hinrich VS Sailor Steve :)
No. Radio and Sound were two completely different divisions, and had nothing to do with each other. On a submarine they do a lot of cross-training, in case someone is injured or killed and someone else has to fill in for him. That said, the movie condensed things for the sake of simplicity. In the book Hinrich is the radioman only. The soundman's name is Herrmann. It might make sense to have one man do both jobs, since when surfaced you can't use the hydrophones and when submerged you can't use the radio, but the reality is that there are three separate watch shifts and each has its own men to man both. On our destroyer we had eight radiomen - two for each shift plus a Chief and a First-Class RM to keep an eye on things.