Fuel needed

[VIPer530]

Hey everyone,

I'm pretty new to this game, and on my first patrol near Japan. I refueled my boat at Midway, but still, arriving at Japan, more than 50 % of my Diesel is gone. So certainly I'm not gonna make it back.
I tried to get Diesel in some of the smaller harbours, since the handbook says you can get Diesel in neutral harbours. But when I arrive there, nothing happens. Is there any trick I should know?

The Japanese have taken Manila out, and I'm not gonna make it to Soerabaja.
Is that the end of my patrol? If so, what did I do wrong?
> 50% of the Diesel were gone when I arrived in my target area, that's a fact.
Any suggestions?

Thanks!

[cdrsubron7]

Hey everyone,

I'm pretty new to this game, and on my first patrol near Japan. I refueled my boat at Midway, but still, arriving at Japan, more than 50 % of my Diesel is gone. So certainly I'm not gonna make it back.
I tried to get Diesel in some of the smaller harbours, since the handbook says you can get Diesel in neutral harbours. But when I arrive there, nothing happens. Is there any trick I should know?

The Japanese have taken Manila out, and I'm not gonna make it to Soerabaja.
Is that the end of my patrol? If so, what did I do wrong?
> 50% of the Diesel were gone when I arrived in my target area, that's a fact.
Any suggestions?

Thanks!

Welcome to our little insane asylum, VIPer530. Happy to have you with us. :D

As to your question, the first thing is to know what speeds your sub burns more fuel at. The best for traveling long distances, say from Midway to whatever patrol area your headed for is 10 knots. That will get you there and back with no problems. Depending on what version of the game and what mods will determine what speed you have to use.

As for your patrol being over you can always go back in and start your patrol over. ComSubPac will not say anything, I promise. :yeah:

[VIPer530]

As to your question, the first thing is to know what speeds your sub burns more fuel at. The best for traveling long distances, say from Midway to whatever patrol area your headed for is 10 knots. That will get you there and back with no problems. Depending on what version of the game and what mods will determine what speed you have to use.

As for your patrol being over you can always go back in and start your patrol over. ComSubPac will not say anything, I promise. :yeah:

Hey, thanks for the welcome!

Ok, I went too fast, point taken. But now, is there no way to save me? I did quite well for a rookie! :|\\ Don't want to loose all my achivements :-?
So running into any random harbour won't buy me any fuel? Is it really only the big bases I can use to stock up? The handbok seems to say different.

[cdrsubron7]

Hey, thanks for the welcome!

Ok, I went too fast, point taken. But now, is there no way to save me? I did quite well for a rookie! :|\\ Don't want to loose all my achivements :-?
So running into any random harbour won't buy me any fuel? Is it really only the big bases I can use to stock up? The handbok seems to say different.

I can understand your not wanting to loose what you've sunk sofar on your patrol, I would feel the same way. What is the date your currently at in your patrol, that will give me an idea as to where the closet base to refuel might be for you.

As the Pacific war progresses advance bases are established closer to Japan, but none of them might not be available to you if you started at the beginning of the war with your current career.

[VIPer530]

Yeah I did start at the beginning. January 1st, 1942.
New Years Eve and I will have to tell the crew that we're not gonna make it home. Great!

And we'll get stranded only 500 Nm from Soerabaja.
Can we stitch some clothes together and build a sail?

[cdrsubron7]

Yeah I did start at the beginning. January 1st, 1942.
New Years Eve and I will have to tell the crew that we're not gonna make it home. Great!

And we'll get stranded only 500 Nm from Soerabaja.
Can we stitch some clothes together and build a sail?

Don't know what else to say. It might be a long war stuck in a Japanese Internment Camp though. Don't quit before you exhaust all avenues of hope.

Good Luck! :up:

[Aktungbby]

VIPer530!:Kaleun_Salute:

[VIPer530]

All right, heading to Soerabaja, 10 knots ahead, let's hope for some tail winds!

[Jimbuna]

Welcome :sunny:

[Sniper297]

I would advise downloading my GONE ASIATIC mod;

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=4358

And start a new career. Dunno where you read about "neutral" ports, but in the game you have one home port and several resupply ports, all indicated by an anchor icon;

https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/v/t1.0-9/1970517_707214969322786_919655070_n.jpg?oh=ff9f060 9a5ead3901a5e57a9765297dd&oe=57BE4675

The one with the tilted anchor (Brisbane in this pic) is the current home port, any of the others are ports where you can resupply, but not end the patrol. My mod adds two "secret" resupply bases in the Philippines available throughout the war.

[AVGWarhawk]

I feel your pain Viper. Last week I started a stock game in the S Class. Tonnage was great. Fuel not so much. :shifty: I became a fishing bobber.

Anyway, the larger mods address fuel issues. :up:

[Florida Sailor]

FUEL and BATTERIES


FUEL
There is nothing worse than running out of fuel before you reach your home port. Your career is in effect finished if you run out of diesel while out at sea. There are no tugs, you can't radio for help, there is no way to get home, period. US Fleet boats do not have oars or sails.

There are many factors affect fuel range. Each class of submarine has it's own set of built in range factors with the S Class having the shortest range. The following conditions affect the range of all classes. Some MODs make changes to the stock values, but the factors listed below are true for stock and most MODs.

1. Speed

a. The best fuel economy is found between 8 and 11 knots. In the stock game the ideal speed for maximum range is 10.95 knots. Mods alter this slightly so experiment a bit. Speeds above or below this speed increase fuel consumption.

b. Flank speed will result in the highest fuel consumption, so use it sparingly.

c. Slow speeds, below 8 knots, will also decrease your range. If you are low on fuel, heading home at 5 knots will use more fuel than 8 to 11 knots.

d. It is easier to set your speed with the knotmeter rather than the 1/3, 2/3 etc. Engine Telegraph. Click on the stem of the Engine Telegraph and it will change to the Knotmeter.

2. Battery Charging

a. When you are charging your batteries, you are running one of your engines at Flank speed to charge them. (You do not really have four engines in the game, you only have two.) During this time your fuel economy drops dramatically. To conserve fuel do not travel using batteries unless you have to. Just submerge and sit there until it is safe to travel on the surface.

b. Battery charging is automatic and unless you manually turn off battery charging, every time you surface the crew will run the charger until the batteries are charged to 100%.

c. Damaged batteries will decrease your range by 2/3. See section 3. b.

3. Damage

a. Leaks. If your fuel tanks are damaged, head for home. Even if the crew "repairs"? the damage you will still lose some fuel and only a return to base will completely repair your boat. A refit will NOT fix a leaky fuel tank.

b. Battery Damage. Your crew can not completely repair damage to your batteries and they will stop accepting a charge at something less than 100%. If this happens and your batteries will not charge to 100%, but your crew will not turn off the battery charger without your intervention. Battery charging is automatic and unless you manually turn it off, every time you surface, it will continue to use diesel at a very fast rate. Do this if your batteries are not charging to 100% or you will never get back to your home port.

BATTERIES

As with diesel fuel, you range with your batteries is affected by speed. Use the knotmeter to set your underwater speed rather than the Engine Telegraph. Different boat classes have different underwater ranges and different lengths of time to recharge, but in general the following rules apply to all classes. The slower you go, the longer your batteries will last.
At 1 knot or less you will probably run out of air before your batteries completely discharge.
At 2 knots you will easily make it from sunrise to sunset and in some classes 24 hours.
At 3 knots, generally less than 12 hours.
At 4 knots 6 to 8 hours depending on your boat class.
Above 4 knots the batteries discharge fairly quickly.

Dave

[aanker]

If you are interested in modding: To get realistic patrol and transit speeds, a modder named Ducimus came up with a novel idea. He is best known as the creator of TMO. Initially he used a 'Propulsion Specialist' and 'Engines-Expert' special ability crewman edit.

If you aren't afraid to use the S3D tool to edit the *.sim files, and a plain text editor to edit text files, and can resist cheating (you're only cheating yourself), here is the 'Propulsion Specialist' and 'Engines-Expert' special ability crewmen edit:

Example: Here is my GATO:

Following Ducimus' edits, I edited my GATO sim's to 15.19 knots @ 14138.4 nm.... these were/are his values. Each major class is different and the numbers are different. The four engine boats like the GATO, BALAO & TENCH would be a major class. If you weren't too picky the two engine boats GAR & TAMBOR could be included and use the same values. Same with the SALMON / SARGO. Of course the S-Boats & PORPOISE class would have different values.

Using a 15.19 knots @ 14138.4 nm edit in the *.sim's gives a 15+/- knot speed and around 12,000 - 14,000 nm distance depending on conditions.

He also edited the CFG's to:

AllStop=0.00
AheadSlow=0.25
AheadOneThird=0.50
AheadStandard=0.75
AheadFull=0.90
AheadFlank=1.00

Using the above values, Standard speed would be the 'two engine speed' we read about in Patrol Reports.

For me these numbers are close enough. Finally, SHCE SH1 distances and speeds, and closer to reality; what I've read in the Patrol Reports! No more putting around the Pacific at 10 knots. Furthermore, by editing the Special Abilities UPC to:

[SpecialAbility ]
ID=Ability-Propulsion-Specialist
NameDisplayable=Ability-Propulsion-Specialist-Name
Description=Ability-Propulsion-Specialist-Description
AbilityType=BatteryConsume; FuelConsume <-- comment out FuelConsume
AbilityValue= -45; -5
AbylityActsIn= PropulsionRoom
SkillRequiredLeadership= 0
SkillRequiredMechanical= 0.7
SkillRequiredElectrics= 0.7
SkillRequiredGuns= 0
SkillRequiredWatchman= 0

- and placing a Propulsion Specialist and Engines-Expert ability crewmen (edit them in) to the Propulsion Room, submerged distances upwards of 95 nm at 2+ knots are possible. Recharge times are from 4+ hours at all stop to 9 hours at standard speed (14 - 15+ knots).

I did away with the speed boost the Engines-Expert gives - and FuelConsume the Propulsion Specialist gives. Those shouldn't be available imo.

[SpecialAbility ]
ID=Ability-Engines-Expert
NameDisplayable=Ability-Engines-Expert-Name
Description=Ability-Engines-Expert-Description
AbilityType= DiveSpeed; SurfaceSpeed, SubmergedSpeed <-- comment out

Regarding the DiveSpeed ability.... I read somewhere that boats couldn't go out on patrol unless they could dive in less than a minute.

Happy Hunting!

[VIPer530]

Thanks guys, for all these detailed replies!

I haven't dealt so much with mods up to now, hard to understand for me what gets you closer to reality and what gets you further away. After all I'm not THAT submarine expert (although I'm about to get there :know:).

By the way, I made it home, the last few miles submerged, with no Diesel, running on the last 30 % of my battery LOL

[aanker]

.......... By the way, I made it home, the last few miles submerged, with no Diesel, running on the last 30 % of my battery LOL
Welcome home! : )

[mikesn9]

I finished making a base the same way once, on my Battery... didn't realize until was out on my way again that I was using a lot of fuel. Figured out I had battery damage, and had to maintain control over charging. Now I keep a close watch on things like that.

[razark]

Figured out I had battery damage, and had to maintain control over charging. Now I keep a close watch on things like that.
I've had situations where after I have taken damage, the battery will not stop charging even though it doesn't show as damaged. It will charge up to 99% and the crew reports a full charge, but it never switches out of charging.

[flyer102]

Higher speeds burn up more fuel, such as going at full or flanking speed setting.

For going longer distances, I would recommend 1/3 speed, or standard.

Unlike U-Boats where 1/3 speed is the most fuel efficient, for American subs, in most cases it standard speed that I recommended if you want to conserve a fair amount of fuel, without taking forever to get there.

Theoretically, going at the slowest speed possible is the most fuel efficient. For instance going ahead 1 knot will be THE most fuel efficient, however if you value your time and sanity, don't go 1 knot when your traveling over 2-3k miles.

[Barkerov]

Theoretically, going at the slowest speed possible is the most fuel efficient. For instance going ahead 1 knot will be THE most fuel efficient, however if you value your time and sanity, don't go 1 knot when your traveling over 2-3k miles.

What you said before this is true but this statement is not, or at least it shouldn't be. All engines, regardless of type, have an optimal speed at which range is maximized. You can find this in SH4 for each sub by setting the knotometer yourself using medium TC for a couple of seconds so that your speed stabilizes and then ask the navigator what your maximum range at current speed is.

I have found for fleet boats this is about 10.5 knots and for the S-class 7.5 knots

[mikesn9]

What you said before this is true but this statement is not, or at least it shouldn't be. All engines, regardless of type, have an optimal speed at which range is maximized. You can find this in SH4 for each sub by setting the knotometer yourself using medium TC for a couple of seconds so that your speed stabilizes and then ask the navigator what your maximum range at current speed is.
How does one "ask the Navigator" for this information?

[aanker]

As has been posted before many times, 10 - 11 knots is the most fuel efficient speed in the Stock unmodded 1.5 0r 1.4 game - for fleetboats if you want to go anywhere - ha! The S-Class are a different story.

Some mods activate the command that answers the question of how far your boat can travel at the current speed. You can edit a couple files and make this command active yourself. It's a couple of simple text edits.

Speak up if you want to learn how,

Happy Hunting!

[Barkerov]

How does one "ask the Navigator" for this information?

When you are plotting waypoints it is the 6th button from the left. If you hover over it, it says maximum range

[mikesn9]

Thanks aanker, I do that speed when travelling, I've known that for a long time.
I am not running any mods, and it appears that "asking the navigator' is part of a mod.

Thanks

[Bleiente]

I am not running any mods, and it appears that "asking the navigator' is part of a mod.

Yes that's right, only the modifications made this option available.
Attempts nevertheless times a modes - this opens up totally new worlds.

Greetings :arrgh!:

[mikesn9]

Attempts nevertheless times a modes - this opens up totally new worlds. huh?

[aanker]

Thanks aanker, I do that speed when travelling, I've known that for a long time.
I am not running any mods, and it appears that "asking the navigator' is part of a mod.

Thanks
Make your own mod. I added that command to my HUD bar icons on the left so long ago I need to refresh my memory on how I did it. - ha! (mostly kidding)

It could be a keyboard combination if you prefer (or both). There are only three or four files involved if you want both.

[aanker]

There are quite a few unused commands in SH4 that you can edit in to be useful. One is, "Maximum range at current speed" discussed above in this Topic, and another is the "Weather Report".

----------------------------------------------------------------------
To get, "Maximum range at current speed" to work in Stock SH4 v1.5:
In this walk-through I used "Shift+G" like TMO does.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Data\Menu\menu.txt
In menu.txt, here it is waiting to be used:

2847=Maximum range at current speed

----------------------------------------------------------------------
So, in: \Data\Cfg\Commands.cfg
Commands.cfg (open with a text editor like Notepad)

[Cmd257] <------------------ Step #1: Find "[Cmd257]"
Name=Report_time_to_turn
Ctxt=1
MnID=0x3F250002
Key0=0x47,s,"Shift+G" <--------- Step #2: Add this string

----------------------------------------------------------------------
If you also want the 'Weather Report' "Ctrl+W" make this [Cmd261] edit:

[Cmd261]
Name=Report_weather
Ctxt=1
MnID=0x3F250006
Key0=0x57,c,"Ctrl+W" <--------- Step #3: Add this string

----------------------------------------------------------------------
To remember "Shift+G" and "Ctrl+W" add them to your in-Game F1 Help file:
In: Data\Menu\Help\Help.cfg
Help.cfg (open with a text editor like Notepad, and find the 'OTHER CONTROLS' section:

[Chapter1.Phrase6]
Phrase=<b>OTHER CONTROLS</b>| NumPad - Decrease Time Compression| NumPad + Increase Time Compression| Backspace Pause|

------------------------------- Step #4: and add Ctrl+W & Shift+G:

[Chapter1.Phrase6]
Phrase=<b>OTHER CONTROLS</b>| Ctrl+W Weather Report| Shift+G Maximum range at current speed| NumPad - Decrease Time Compression| NumPad + Increase Time Compression| Backspace Pause|

----------------------------------------------------------------------
As always back up any files you edit in case you make a mistake.

[mikesn9]

Once again, Thanks Aanker.

I added the fuel range patch: love it.

a note to others who may not do a lot of modding:

Start notepad in administrator mode. I wasn't able to save the file in any usable mode until I tried it that way, then it was a breeze.