This Has Been Bugging Me For Awhile Now

[cdrsubron7]

OK, I'm heading out from Midway, starting a new patrol. Patrol date is Jan 27, 1944. I'm just NW of Dunker's Derp on the map in TMO. Radar picks up a Task Force heading SE almost right toward me. As the Task Force comes within torpedo range I see 6 DD, 2 CA, 1 BB, and 1 CV.

Now this is my gripe. The CV is Hiryu class. Since the Hiryu was sunk at Midway, this just isn't right. This happens all through the rest of '44.

Is there a way to go into the campaign files and correct this. All I need is a place to look or start?

I suppose it's not a biggie, but I get tired of sinking the same CV all the time. :D

[Torplexed]

The Unryū class carriers put into commission by Japan in 1944 were based on the Hiryu design with a few improvements learned with earlier carriers. Just assume you're tangling with either the Unryū, Amagi or Katsuragi.

[De Ruyter]

OK, I'm heading out from Midway, starting a new patrol. Patrol date is Jan 27, 1944. I'm just NW of Dunker's Derp on the map in TMO. Radar picks up a Task Force heading SE almost right toward me. As the Task Force comes within torpedo range I see 6 DD, 2 CA, 1 BB, and 1 CV.

Now this is my gripe. The CV is Hiryu class. Since the Hiryu was sunk at Midway, this just isn't right. This happens all through the rest of '44.

Is there a way to go into the campaign files and correct this. All I need is a place to look or start?

I suppose it's not a biggie, but I get tired of sinking the same CV all the time. :D

According to that super-reliable source Wikipedia:88), there was not even a Hiryu class. The Hiryu was a modified sister ship of the Soryu. Then again, since this game does not, to my very limited knowledge and someone correct me if I am wrong, take campaign events into account (sinking an oil tanker does not reduce Japan's military capabilities elsewhere, things like that) just assume Japan has created more of those carriers, I know, that would bug me as well. That comes down to what was discussed in another thread (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=225364), game historical realism vs gameplay realism.

[merc4ulfate]

The game, no matter which mods you run, has never been 100% accurate when it comes to tonnage sank and available or historical points. What I mean by historical points is that if you sink a carrier on its way to midway it will never spawn again. We all know it does somewhere else.

Also tonnage sank will not alter battles or future battles. That was something just to complex for the devs to have incorporated. If you sank the Yamato and her sister ship early in the war there would never be the air battle to sink the Yamato in '45. The battle still occurs, or is simulated, whether the ship is sunk early in the war or not. This is why at a particular time in the war you can sink the Yamato every day at around 1500 in Bungo Suido.

[cdrsubron7]

Funny how things work out sometimes, I guess. In SH1, which BTW was basically a Dos game the developers were to do so much more with the game than Ubisoft ever did. It's too bad we couldn't modernize SH1 with the same files and new graphics, then we would have a game worth talking about. Thanks goodness for the modders of SH4. :salute: :yeah:

[De Ruyter]

Funny how things work out sometimes, I guess. In SH1, which BTW was basically a Dos game the developers were to do so much more with the game than Ubisoft ever did. It's too bad we couldn't modernize SH1 with the same files and new graphics, then we would have a game worth talking about. Thanks goodness for the modders of SH4. :salute: :yeah:

SH1 is what I am used to. Now for some reason the version I play (downloaded from an abandonware site) has no sound, though there are sound files. Also, I cannot give orders to rig for red, man AA guns, or jettison debris, and my TC only goes to 256 (or 512, I don't remember which, but I think 256). But SH4 seems to be better anyway.

Also tonnage sank will not alter battles or future battles. That was something just to complex for the devs to have incorporated. If you sank the Yamato and her sister ship early in the war there would never be the air battle to sink the Yamato in '45. The battle still occurs, or is simulated, whether the ship is sunk early in the war or not. This is why at a particular time in the war you can sink the Yamato every day at around 1500 in Bungo Suido.

Yeah, that would make the game too complicated for the developers, no arguments there. Either that, or make the game much more expensive with much higher computer requirements.

[Webster]

just purely guessing here, but "maybe" if you edit the ships cfg files to reflect the dates the ship should no longer be seen, then I would think they will not be able to spawn before or after that date.

that may however cause anything from CTD or no ship at all spawn issues if the game doesn't know what to replace it with so if its supposed to spawn "any" random carrier, then maybe it will do just that or if not, then you may need to dig deeper into the files to tell it to spawn "any" random carrier rather then a specific one.

this sounds like it "could" req you open and read through all the campaign files and edit as needed which can be very involved and time consuming.

but as I said, this is just speculation on my part and there may be things I am not aware of limiting what can be edited

[aanker]

Webster beat me, I took too long to compose this post.

I'm also thinking that there must be dates in some kind of a Roster file for the CV's (and all of the Capital ships) which could be corrected and solve this problem, I hope, I hope, ....

Seeing a Capital ship that I know shouldn't be above water, bothers me too. Typically I pretend that it isn't there (like the Flying Dutchman) and try hard not to target them. I haven't devoted the time to look at this although I know I should.

Next project:
Aircraft Carriers (CV & CVL)
Class: -------------------| Commissioned:
---------------------------+--------------
Akagi --------------------|----- 1
---------------------------+--------------
Kaga ---------------------|----- 1
---------------------------+--------------
Soryu - Hiryu ------------|----- 2
---------------------------+--------------
Shokaku - Zuikaku --------|----- 2
---------------------------+--------------
Hiyo - Junyo -------------|----- 2
---------------------------+--------------
Taiho --------------------|----- 1
---------------------------+--------------
Shinano ------------------|----- 1
---------------------------+--------------
Unryu, Amagi & Katsuragi -|----- 3
---------------------------+--------------
Taiyo, Unyo & Chuyo ------|----- 3
---------------------------+--------------
Rhujo --------------------|----- 1
---------------------------+--------------
Ryuho --------------------|----- 1
---------------------------+--------------
Chitose & Chiyoda --------|----- 2
---------------------------+--------------
Zuiho & Shoho ------------|----- 2
---------------------------+--------------I have tried to mod my SH4 game to behave like SH1 did. At least SSI didn't have warships sunk in the Battle of Midway appearing in 1944 in SHCE (SH1)

Do they have the Bismark 'right' on the U-Boat side? Just curious...

[cdrsubron7]

Webster beat me, I took too long to compose this post.

I'm also thinking that there must be dates in some kind of a Roster file for the CV's (and all of the Capital ships) which could be corrected and solve this problem, I hope, I hope, ....

Seeing a Capital ship that I know shouldn't be above water, bothers me too. Typically I pretend that it isn't there (like the Flying Dutchman) and try hard not to target them. I haven't devoted the time to look at this although I know I should.

Next project:
I have tried to mod my SH4 game to behave like SH1 did. At least SSI didn't have warships sunk in the Battle of Midway appearing in 1944 in SHCE (SH1)

Do they have the Bismark 'right' on the U-Boat side? Just curious...

Thanks for the suggestions, Webster and Art. I'll look into the Roster files tonight after I get home from work. I know I was able to change the tonnage files on the Japanese warships to reflect more what they were like in the real war. Made myself a small mod for that also.

Thanks again. :up:

[cdrsubron7]

The Unryū class carriers put into commission by Japan in 1944 were based on the Hiryu design with a few improvements learned with earlier carriers. Just assume you're tangling with either the Unryū, Amagi or Katsuragi.


So the Unyru class is actually modeled in SH4? I've always wondered whether it was or not. I've never actually seen the carrier though. :06:

[cdrsubron7]

[UnitClass]
ClassName=CVHiryu
UnitType=9
AppearanceDate=19270327
DisappearanceDate=19450902
DisplayName=JP CV Hiryu

[Texture 1]
TextureName=data/Sea/NCV_Hiryu/NCV_Hiryu_T01.tga
LightmapTextureName=data/Sea/NCV_Hiryu/NCV_Hiryu_O01.tga
NormalmapTextureName=data/Sea/NCV_Hiryu/NCV_Hiryu_N01.tga
StartDate=19000101
EndDate=19991231
Frequency=1

[Unit 1]
Name=IJN Hiryu
DOC=19390705
DOD=19420605

[Unit 2]
Name=IJN Soryu
DOC=19390705
DOD=19420604

[Unit 3]
Name=IJN Unryu
DOC=19440806
DOD=19441219

[Unit 4]
Name=IJN Amagi
DOC=19440810
DOD=19450727

[Unit 5]
Name=IJN Katsuragi
DOC=19441015
DOD=19450902

[Unit 6]
Name=IJN Akagi
DOC=19270327
DOD=19420604

The above listing is from the is from SH4/Data/Roster/Japan/Sea.

There is no listing for the Soryu. The Units 3, 4, and 5 are of course Unyru class. Why the Akagi is listed as Unit 6 is beyond me. :06:

Question is now, what do I do with it?

[aanker]

I would try to edit with a text editor the DOD - to the date the ship was sunk in real life.

The first dates seem to be for the many shared texture files.

Try the DOD dates and see if that works. If we are lucky, this could be simple! : ) Nothing is simple.

-----------
CVTaiho.cfg:

[UnitClass]
ClassName=CVTaiho
UnitType=9
AppearanceDate=19430407
DisappearanceDate=19440619 <------------------
DisplayName=JP CV Taiho

[Texture 1]
TextureName=data/Sea/NCV_Taiho/NCV_Taiho_T01.tga
LightmapTextureName=data/Sea/NCV_Taiho/NCV_Taiho_O01.tga
NormalmapTextureName=data/Sea/NCV_Taiho/NCV_Taiho_N01.tga
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19450101
Frequency=1

[Unit 1]
Name=IJN Taiho
DOC=19430407
DOD=19440619 <---------------
----------
In real life was Sunk 19 Jun 1944 - the DOD dates

Maybe there is another file because these keep coming back after the DOD dates.......

[Webster]

[UnitClass]
ClassName=CVHiryu
UnitType=9
AppearanceDate=19270327 < this should control when the entire class of ships first can appear in the game
DisappearanceDate=19450902 < this should control when the entire class of ships can no longer appear in the game
DisplayName=JP CV Hiryu

[Texture 1]
TextureName=data/Sea/NCV_Hiryu/NCV_Hiryu_T01.tga
LightmapTextureName=data/Sea/NCV_Hiryu/NCV_Hiryu_O01.tga
NormalmapTextureName=data/Sea/NCV_Hiryu/NCV_Hiryu_N01.tga
StartDate=19000101
EndDate=19991231
Frequency=1

[Unit 1]
Name=IJN Hiryu
DOC=19390705 < this should control when this exact ship can appear in the game (date of commission)
DOD=19420605 < this should control when this exact ship can no longer appear in the game (date of decommission)

[Unit 2]
Name=IJN Soryu
DOC=19390705
DOD=19420604

[Unit 3]
Name=IJN Unryu
DOC=19440806
DOD=19441219

[Unit 4]
Name=IJN Amagi
DOC=19440810
DOD=19450727

[Unit 5]
Name=IJN Katsuragi
DOC=19441015
DOD=19450902

[Unit 6]
Name=IJN Akagi
DOC=19270327
DOD=19420604

The above listing is from the is from SH4/Data/Roster/Japan/Sea.

There is no listing for the Soryu. The Units 3, 4, and 5 are of course Unyru class. Why the Akagi is listed as Unit 6 is beyond me. :06:

Question is now, what do I do with it?

as for the akagi, well there are a lot of strange things with the ships in the game, some ships use files from unrelated ships and even can be not using the files that appear to be there to control them. lots of very strange things show up in tests where things you expect to change don't, because the game is using some "seemingly" unrelated file instead.

[Rockin Robbins]

But that is also true for every Japanese ship and American ship in the game. The game has no roster of possible ships and does not cross off that ship when you sink it. You can sink the Yamato five times in a year.

And with aircraft carriers, if there is no Soryu available to spawn and you eliminate Hiryu then you have reduced the possibility of encountering a major aircraft carrier by half and can only find the Kaga or Akagi, which you might also sink multiple times. :/\\!!

To the game "Hiryu" just means "stick a big aircraft carrier in the task force." By taking it away you reduce the value of the task force just to keep from seeing the same name every time. Better just to eliminate the ID text and not know the name of the rustbucket you sink!:D:D

[cdrsubron7]

But that is also true for every Japanese ship and American ship in the game. The game has no roster of possible ships and does not cross off that ship when you sink it. You can sink the Yamato five times in a year.

And with aircraft carriers, if there is no Soryu available to spawn and you eliminate Hiryu then you have reduced the possibility of encountering a major aircraft carrier by half and can only find the Kaga or Akagi, which you might also sink multiple times. :/\\!!

To the game "Hiryu" just means "stick a big aircraft carrier in the task force." By taking it away you reduce the value of the task force just to keep from seeing the same name every time. Better just to eliminate the ID text and not know the name of the rustbucket you sink!:D:D

Be that as it may, I'd still like to fool around with it some and see what happens. :D

[Rockin Robbins]

Be that as it may, I'd still like to fool around with it some and see what happens. :D
But of course! What ELSE would a respectable mad scientist be doing?:rock:

[cdrsubron7]

But of course! What ELSE would a respectable mad scientist be doing?:rock:

:haha: (laughing manically) I'm glad you see it my way, my friend. :D