Looking for information about radar / sonar on early Cold War Soviet submarines

[TheGeoff]

As some of you may know, I'm in the process of developing a simulator focusing on the Foxtrot-class submarine (not Sub Commander - a new sim). These submarines played a pivotal role in the Cuban Missile Crisis and were active throughout much of the Cold War.

In order to make the simulator as realistic as possible, I am looking for any photographs, documents, books, documentaries etc. relating to the equipment used on these submarines. If you can think of any sources which might be helpful, please post them! I have been searching for months but information on the radar, sonar and ESM suite are particularly hard to come by - apart from occasional museum photos and passing references in databases there is very little information online.

The pieces of equipment I am especially interested in are:

Флаг (Flag) radar systems (NATO designations: 'Snoop Tray' or 'Snoop Plate')
Накат (Rebound?) ESM system (NATO designation: 'Stop Light B')
ХРОМ-К (Chrome-K) direction finder / navigation radar (NATO designation: 'Quad Loop')
МГ-10 Кола / МГ-10M Феникс-М (Cola / Phoenix-M) sonar system (NATO designation: 'Trout Cheek'?)
МГ-200 Арктика-М (Arctic-M) sonar system (NATO designation: 'Pike Jaw'?)
МГ-15 Свияга (Sviyaga) sonar system
МГ-13М Свет-М (Light-M) sonar detector(?)
Ива-МВ (Willow-MB) HF radio


Does anyone know where I could find photos, documents, or books which cover these or any other Soviet sensors in detail? Any good books about Soviet subs in general?

I appreciate any recommendations!

[Kapitan]

il respond to you in about 20 minuets i may have something of your interest

[Kapitan]

Ok i have this book called a guide to the soviet navy published in the late 1970's so it doesn't have the units newer than about 1975, this is volume 2 im hunting down the other volumes of it and hopefully something will turn up.

This book lists platforms weapons systems and sensors it is written by Siegfried Breyer and Norman Polmar the latter is one of the most respected analysts on the subject.

ISBN 0 85059 298 4 the copy shouldn't be that expensive it cost me £6 at a boot sale

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm190/SubHunter611/65b32ccd-50aa-4658-9da4-2319c3b79ba1_zpsgpwsrcwt.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SubHunter611/media/65b32ccd-50aa-4658-9da4-2319c3b79ba1_zpsgpwsrcwt.jpg.html)

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm190/SubHunter611/IMG_11371_zpswgfr0ptb.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SubHunter611/media/IMG_11371_zpswgfr0ptb.jpg.html)

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm190/SubHunter611/IMG_11381_zpsjuqcx4nh.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SubHunter611/media/IMG_11381_zpsjuqcx4nh.jpg.html)

[TheGeoff]

That looks extremely helpful, thanks! Looks like there are a lot of second hand copies floating around so I should be able to pick one up quite easily.

[Kapitan]

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm190/SubHunter611/IMG_11551_zpsli8rednp.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SubHunter611/media/IMG_11551_zpsli8rednp.jpg.html)

Just ordered this it also maybe helpful also few more different ones on order

[TheGeoff]

Would be interesting to know how detailed the info in that book is.

Also - a big thank you for sharing the link to your flickr albums! Very interesting photos, especially the pics of B821 in Zeebrugge.

[Kapitan]

This is a paper back its more of a glossy magazine to be honest but still some useful stuff inside and I've never seen one before hence the impulse buy, I only paid £1 for it in a charity shop I did an ISBN search for it available on Ebay the book is for sale for £15 this is almost mint condition so I'm very happy with it.

I have prepared some photographs some maybe of interest to you some may not but this is some pages from inside the book.

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm190/SubHunter611/IMG_11561_zpse8vutk2y.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SubHunter611/media/IMG_11561_zpse8vutk2y.jpg.html)

Montage of the Yankee's

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm190/SubHunter611/IMG_11581_zpsmmgbyrbr.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SubHunter611/media/IMG_11581_zpsmmgbyrbr.jpg.html)

A spread page depicting the November class submarine plus a delta and kresta class the most interesting part here for me is the November cut away details the sections and also some of the kit inside.
What's more interesting for me is there is wide spread speculation that they have saved the very first submarine of the 627's K3 leninsky komsomol and that they are looking to open her up as a museum in Russia in the future.
I am going to Russia hopefully this year and if I get a chance I will see if I can get a chance to speak to Captain Igor Kurdin to see if he can bring some light on this as it would certainly be a good visit!


http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm190/SubHunter611/IMG_11571_zpsdqiqtxew.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SubHunter611/media/IMG_11571_zpsdqiqtxew.jpg.html)

Victor II SSN depiction some nice unusual pictures that I have not seen before.


http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm190/SubHunter611/ea89e032-e550-49bb-8483-867afae6aed8_zpsfxg0ijqg.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SubHunter611/media/ea89e032-e550-49bb-8483-867afae6aed8_zpsfxg0ijqg.jpg.html)

Have a feeling this is something you would be interested in ;)

I'l have to dig out my other books and when the ones I have bought arrive I can have a look through everything for you and see if anything is mentioned.

Also I don't know if you have seen this but this is a 2006 documentary on the Russian Navy its slightly out dated as things have moved at quite a pace since filming completed but worth a watch as is the RT documentary on the Baltic fleet.

https://youtu.be/IyJ3Goqm66w <Russian Navy 2006

https://rtd.rt.com/films/the-baltic-fleet-ep1/ Baltic Fleet series 12 episodes so far

[Kapitan]

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm190/SubHunter611/IMG_11611_zpsudqdpdvb.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SubHunter611/media/IMG_11611_zpsudqdpdvb.jpg.html)

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm190/SubHunter611/IMG_11631_zpsftgnr5kg.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/SubHunter611/media/IMG_11631_zpsftgnr5kg.jpg.html)

[TheGeoff]

All of this information has been extremely useful, thank you once again for posting it!

[nsomnia]

I'm also going to need all the info I can get for redwater.

Want to share? I have gigs upon gigs o freference material.

[TheGeoff]

Hey nsomnia,

Sure, I would be happy to share what I have found! I'm not sure how useful it will be to you since most of the resources have been focused on diesel-electric Soviet subs, but when I get a chance I'll send you most useful photos and documents I have discovered. Might be a week or two before I get a chance to put it all together though, work is pretty hectic at the moment.

[nsomnia]

I have a ton of blueprints and schematics on my OLD very outdated github if youd like. post coldwar stuff, unpublished 571 stuff.

https://github.com/Nsomnia/ColdWarSubSim

I have more info on my newer repository but its mostly fleet sub stuff so far sicne thats where my game starts. When I get it commited to a public repo I'll let you know. And organized for that matter.

[TheGeoff]

Hey nsomnia,

Very sorry - just realised I never got around to sending you those links!

Most of the resources I've been gathering are only relevant to the interior of Project 641 submarines, but there are a few sites which might be useful to you:


http://tvre.org/en/torpedo-fire-control-system-on-german-u-boats - Detailed description of fire control systems on U-boats. Since many US and Soviet systems were directly or indirectly descended from the technology found in U-boats, this may be somewhat useful.
http://www.gwpda.org/naval/w0100000.htm - brief description of torpedo firing proceedures.
http://www.maritime.org/doc/oberon/index.htm - a collection of manuals from Canadian O-class (Oberon) submarines. One of the most detailed resources on a cold war era submarine I have found. Contains everything you would ever want to know about electrical & hydraulic systems, torpedo tubes, engines, etc, along with some more limited info on sonar and sensor systems.
http://navyleague.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/The-Navy-Vol_58_Part1-1996.pdf - an Australian Navy magazine from 1996. The article "Foxtrot on Show" has some interesting info on old (and newer) Soviet submarines and tactics.
http://belfercenter.ksg.harvard.edu/files/CMC50/SavranskayaJSSNewsourcesonroleofSovietsubmarinesin CMC.pdf - article on the role of Soviet submarines in the Cuban Missile Crisis. Could be of use to you if you plan to cover that era of history.
http://www.hnsa.org/resources/manuals-documents/ - Collection of documents from the Historical Naval Ships Association. Some useful content, including manuals for US fleet boats from WWII.

[nsomnia]

Unfortunstly I've seen or have bookmarked most of the big ones like maritime and hsna but some good ones to list. I'll run through my bookmarks and throw a list on everythjng soviet together. We are just gerting to the whisky class and mid fifties in our sim.

Thanks!

[nsomnia]

i'm sure youve seen these?

http://imgur.com/a/1sE6W
http://imgur.com/a/WyJ20
http://imgur.com/a/xi3P3
http://imgur.com/a/vblb9
https://www.reddit.com/r/submarines/comments/43gl79/what_are_these_two_things_on_the_russian_rubin/
http://imgur.com/a/t6UjU