Animation: Tha Allied strategic bombing campaign in Europe

[Jimbuna]

I thought this may be of some interest to those interested in the RAF and USAAF bombing campaign over Europe in WWII

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3491950/Animation-shows-location-bomb-dropped-Allies-Second-World-War.html

[Commander Wallace]

Awesome. This is very useful in understanding the bombing campaigns that were being conducted over Europe. Thanks for posting it.

[Catfish]

Yes, interesting it is..

[Aktungbby]

Yes, interesting it is..

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/seventy-years-world-war-two-thousands-tons-unexploded-bombs-germany-180957680/?no-ist (http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/seventy-years-world-war-two-thousands-tons-unexploded-bombs-germany-180957680/?no-ist) More than interesting: Down right wicked... in the failed technology department The majority of the bombs were armed not with percussion fuses, which explode on impact, but with time-delay fuses, which both sides used throughout the war in order to extend the terror and chaos caused by aerial attacks. The sophisticated, chemical-based fuses­—designated M124 and M125, depending on the weight of the bomb—were intended to be used sparingly; U.S. Army Air Force guidelines recommended fitting them in no more than 10 percent of bombs in any given attack.


http://thumbs.media.smithsonianmag.com//filer/1d/b8/1db82154-0dfa-41cf-809e-d19a0d4e0ae9/janfeb2016_e01_bombs.jpg__800x600_q85_crop.jpg Hells Angels Drop heavy ordinance Before any construction project begins in Germany, from the extension of a home to track-laying by the national railroad authority, the ground must be certified as cleared of unexploded ordnance. Still, last May, some 20,000 people were cleared from an area of Cologne while authorities removed a one-ton bomb that had been discovered during construction work. In November 2013, another 20,000 people in Dortmund were evacuated while experts defused a 4,000-pound “Blockbuster” bomb that could destroy most of a city block. In 2011, 45,000 people—the largest evacuation in Germany since World War II—were forced to leave their homes when a drought revealed a similar device lying on the bed of the Rhine in the middle of Koblenz. Although the country has been at peace for three generations, German bomb-disposal squads are among the busiest in the world. Eleven bomb technicians have been killed in Germany since 2000, including three who died in a single explosion while trying to defuse a 1,000-pound bomb on the site of a popular flea market in Göttingen in 2010.

[Catfish]

i'm currently writing a kind of angry essay about this .. :-?

[Jimbuna]

Awesome. This is very useful in understanding the bombing campaigns that were being conducted over Europe. Thanks for posting it.

Yes, interesting it is..

Yeah, I found it interesting too.

[Oberon]

T'was somewhat overkill, a lot of ordinance that would have been better served hitting the logistics and oil production of Nazi Germany, but well, the key thing is that we learn from it.

[Catfish]

First @Jim, thanks for posting. It is interesting fo me, but it surely deviates from what you found interesting. Let me explain why I find it to be that, and especially what i do not like.

It takes a lot of work to create those animations, and it is indeed new. Never before have i read about english bombing attacks on german cities before the german 'Blitz', in september 1939. Of course there were enough witnesses in Germany, if you asked. But no one did, officially. And all who doubted the official version were labelled "Holocaust deniers". Because if you doubt one "truth", you doubt it all. A thought-terminating cliché.

It has been "self-evident" before, that there never were any allied bombings on german cities before 1942. On no account before the 'Blitz', or so you can read in history books from 1939 until.. today.
History on history is often one by itself. We cannot look at those graphics without remembering the lies and cover-ups that have been before.


The text accompanying the animations still uses a lot of explicit judgment, which is why I would not use this Imperial war [sic!] museum animation for learning purposes.

Additionally to the text valuation there are important omissions in the graphics. Who only has this portrayal, will think that british planes flew together with american ones, which was not the case. The missions were strictly separated, by time of day.
As we know US fliers bombed in daylight and also at low altitude on sight, while british bombed by night, almost (a few unimportant if "heroic" raids omitted) entirely from high altitude via sighting mechanism. Whatever you make of that or which questions arise, it is required to know about that.

Also worth mentioning would have been studies, which practical goal this city bombing was supposed to have, and what it really achieved. The studies justify the bombings with "demoralisation", the target being terrorising with the hope to shatter the military power, of a country.

But the contrary was achieved, always. Population being non-involved was inflamed to hate towards the attackers without german propaganda needed, downed pilots were lynched on the spot without official order, soldiers on holiday reported back to duty foregoing their vacation out of fury. This is fact.
Who had lost all, in one of the raids and arrived back at the front, knew no reluctance and mercy. Goebbels only needed to canalise this general feeling with his "Wollt ihr den totalen Krieg, wollt ihr ihn noch radikaler und totaler als blahblah..", and the thundering answer "Yes!"

A typical dealing with the lies is "No hard feelings, now insight and understanding has triumphed, and all the information is neutral and correct." Who thinks this way invites to a flood of further lying. And it always finds tolerance, and again – profitable concealment.

We will never get the real truth from war criminals, all sides and countries, and especially not from their heirs. There were only heroes, and one war.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/firestorms-darken-our-past-those-who-defend-bomber-harriss-destruction-of-german-cities-are-wrong-1374893.html

Bombing in WW2 destroyed most of the cities of Germany and killed 600,000 people, most of them women and children.


'Bomber Harris' was more mistrusted in England during the war, than he is today. Decades of embarassing victor propaganda has taken its toll.
"Lest you remember right!".

[/rant]


P.s. @Oberon, i have not the impression we learned anything, if you look at the "accomplishments", from Iraq, to Syria. It destroyed civilian houses, infrastructure cynically described as "collateral damage", and planted hatred in the hearts of many.

[Oberon]

Sadly Catfish, I fear that you're right about our learning.

In regards to the bombing campaign, I can't disagree with what you've written either. Honestly the Allied bombing campaign, especially between 1939-1942 was primarily done for British morale benefit, although sometimes it had the opposite effect. Quite often our newspapers and radio would crow of a heavy RAF bombing raid on a German city the night before and the people of London would groan and know that when the night came the Luftwaffe would be along to pay an extra special visit.
After 1942 when there were more bombers in the mix, then some industry was being targetted, and likewise the uboat pens and such forth, but again, a lot of the time it was the major cities, although in some instances it was aimed at the industry in the city, but if it hit the workers houses around it then all well and good.
Really, given how London didn't fold up under the Luftwaffe bombing missions the British command should really have realised that terror bombing cities was not going to work, perhaps they thought that the German public didn't have 'the same moral fibre' (!) or perhaps they figured but just didn't care, going to that base element of just killing as many Germans as they possibly could. A form of 'Total war' perhaps.

It's hard for us, seventy years on, to get into the mindset with our present day attitudes of the people in that time. Not to excuse it, just trying to understand perhaps why it happened. :hmmm:

[Catfish]

Must be at least 20 years ago, when i read a "novel"(?) called "Bombers", by Len Deighton. Fiction, but worthwhile, by any means.
After this i did a bit of research myself, and saw how all that deviated from the official reading. And it was the time before the internet ..
Anyway seeing a monument for Bomber Harris in 1992, instead for the 55,573 british pilots and crews who were killed, did not win you much sympathy over here. I think incomprehension describes it best.

sorry, edited this 3 times

[Jimbuna]

@Catfish

I read your points with interest and agree to a certain degree. The Blitz certainly had a similar effect on the British population, strengthening their resolve and certainly didn't have the demoralizing effect Goering thought it would.

The animation was interesting to me in the sense that this is the first I have seen and as such is all I have to compare with what I have read in books and on the internet.

That 'history is written by the victors' is to a certain extent true but the lesson I would hope everyone would learn is simply one that all parties should try to learn from the past and ensure such madness never happens again.

We in Europe must have learned something seeing there has been no further major conflict in Europe for seventy years since.

Hopefully the UK will be leaving the EU shortly so you can all get on with it yourselves should you ever feel the need again :):03:

[Catfish]

... but the lesson I would hope everyone would learn is simply one that all parties should try to learn from the past and ensure such madness never happens again.

Roger that. :salute:

We in Europe must have learned something seeing there has been no further major conflict in Europe for seventy years since.

I think in that respect we have learned something, and we hopefully never forget that. Problem is that man lives only for a short time, and the kids seem to make all the mistakes again – if education is neglected.

The UK being a member of the EU surely stabilises Europe as a whole, and i sure will not like seeing it go. I am still not sure about your motivations. I sure do not like the EU bureaucracy or some of the silly decisions being made there, but leaving instead of taking influence and improving the situation is imho not a good decision.
For me it seems you have an axe to grind with Cameron who happens to be pro-EU, some diffuse dislike towards foreigners, together with a pinch of patriotism ;)
I may be wrong though.

Hopefully the UK will be leaving the EU shortly so you can all get on with it yourselves should you ever feel the need again :):03:

Well last time you did not just sit there and watch the drama unfold. The british Empire has always tried to take influence on the continent, politically or militarily. And Great Britain is a part of Europe, whether you want it or not.

But since you talked about the UK i have a question whether Scotland and Ireland will also automatically leave the EU, if England does? Would there be a referendum, too, or is the planned referendum already UK-wide?

[Jimbuna]

The UK being a member of the EU surely stabilises Europe as a whole, and i sure will not like seeing it go. I am still not sure about your motivations. I sure do not like the EU bureaucracy or some of the silly decisions being made there, but leaving instead of taking influence and improving the situation is imho not a good decision.
For me it seems you have an axe to grind with Cameron who happens to be pro-EU, some diffuse dislike towards foreigners, together with a pinch of patriotism ;)
I may be wrong though.

My opinion and stance is based on fundamental principles. The UK needs to take back control of her borders and to a certain extent, immigration as well as law making and governance powers (sovereignty and parliamentary democracy) without any interference from the EU itself which has changed from a confident Common Market to a tired, increasingly fragmented superstate, bickering about debts so huge that they will never be repaid, whether well-intentioned or not.

But since you talked about the UK i have a question whether Scotland and Ireland will also automatically leave the EU, if England does? Would there be a referendum, too, or is the planned referendum already UK-wide?

For the EU referendum - according to the EU Referendum Act of 2015 - only British, Irish and Commonwealth citizens over the age of 18 who are resident in the UK or Gibraltar will be able to vote. British citizens who have lived abroad for less than 15 years will also have their say.