View Full Version : My respect for people's right are being tested
In these days there is a legal process in Norway, it is not a legal process whatsoever - This is a trial where Anders Breivik has sued the Norwegian state - to have broken several conventions. Breivik alleges that the Norwegian state does not take into account his civic rights.
His rights !! did He have any thought of his victim's rights when he shot them in cold blood.
I grew up with democracy and taught me to respect democracy and to see to others also enjoy the democratic rights even if they have done terrible things-It happens, however, that this respect sometimes is put to the test
Markus
What is missing nowadays is justice!!:yep:
His appeal will likely get turned down, the annoying thing is that the media were allowed in to film the event, thus giving him air time which is the oxygen on which his type thrives. Should have been a closed hearing really, murder appeals should be. Once a murderer is in prison that should be the last we hear of them until the news of their death is announced. They should be forgotten, because every moment that they are remembered is more than they deserve.
What is missing nowadays is justice!!:yep:
The biggest question is what is justice?
His appeal will likely get turned down, the annoying thing is that the media were allowed in to film the event, thus giving him air time which is the oxygen on which his type thrives. Should have been a closed hearing really, murder appeals should be. Once a murderer is in prison that should be the last we hear of them until the news of their death is announced. They should be forgotten, because every moment that they are remembered is more than they deserve.
I don't know who made the appeal public or on which request.
Heard earlier today, that Breivik made a "Hitler thing" and the judge said-do not do this again.
Yesterday The news was interviewing some survivors-One of them could very well understand him and said he should have same democratically rights as other-while the other one said that the Norwegian government should put him in a dark room as in the middle age and throw away the key
Even among the survivors there is different opinions
Markus
I have to admit the Norwegian maximum security cell is rather luxurious, comparing it to the American equivalent. I think the Yanks have a good idea with their Supermax prisons, very utiliterian, minimum exposure to the outside and total solitary confinement.
Gargamel
03-16-16, 12:05 AM
Let's not hold us up as the model example of corrections systems. Just look at our incarceration rate per capita. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate#United_Sta tes and http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/uk/06/prisons/html/nn2page1.stm). Something should be said for good rehabilitation, and not just punishment.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/uk/06/prisons/img/prisons2_gra203.gif
The man is allowed to have his grievance, the court will hear it and promptly dismiss it. "But what about your victims" was my first thought too, but if we start to ignore the laws based on personal opinions, then we are no better than him.
Skybird
03-16-16, 05:51 AM
You cannot avoid to get challenged in life. But you can refuse to waver. So walk on, nothing to see here, nothing important happened...
this respect sometimes is put to the test
Markus
Did you pass or fail the test?:O:
Court cases=Money :03:
Not in the media..
Longer its dragged out the better for some persons rubbing their hands with glee.
In the Media..
This vile person is having a good time making the rest of us feel sick and angry.
This vile person is having a good time making the rest of us feel sick and angry.
http://images.forbes.com/media/lists/54/2006/639W.jpg
Catfish
03-16-16, 08:50 AM
...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/uk/06/prisons/img/prisons2_gra203.gif
...
In the US, prisons are privately owned companies or so i read. is this really true? :hmmm:
In the US, prisons are privately owned companies or so i read. is this really true? :hmmm:
Some are.
As of 2010 about 15% of the inmates under the jurisdiction of the Federal Bureau of Prisons are in facilities operated by third parties. Most of them are in facilities operated by private companies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Bureau_of_Prisons
Most though are government run via the FBP.
http://images.forbes.com/media/lists/54/2006/639W.jpg
Hmmm....:03:
Mind you his wedding. :haha:
kraznyi_oktjabr
03-16-16, 09:13 AM
Breivk has his rights and should be allowed excercise. However I have to admit that I wouldn't mind if key got lost... but that is good reason why I don't have and should never have any say on this kind of issues...
I have to admit the Norwegian maximum security cell is rather luxurious, comparing it to the American equivalent. I think the Yanks have a good idea with their Supermax prisons, very utiliterian, minimum exposure to the outside and total solitary confinement.That is good system for prisoners who are in "storage" rather than in "rehabiliiation".
Some are.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Bureau_of_Prisons
Most though are government run via the FBP.What about State prisons and county(?) jails?
EDIT: Just to add. Here in Finland court proceedings are public unless there is good reason for closed doors. This as far I understand it is determined by presiding judge(s).
Breivk has his rights and should be allowed excercise. However I have to admit that I wouldn't mind if key got lost... but that is good reason why I don't have and should never have any say on this kind of issues...
That is good system for prisoners who are in "storage" rather than in "rehabiliiation".
Indeed, it's best for the worst of the worst.
What about State prisons and county(?) jails?
I think they'd probably come under their local state government, not sure if it devolves as far down as county level like the police does though, might well do.
Catfish
03-16-16, 09:24 AM
Yes, Breivik should have his rights. However in some cases including this one, there could be certain jurisdictional approaches for specific cruelties, without threatening democracy and fair trials in general.
Judge not so you will not be judged, alright, but i agree with kraznyi_oktjabr it's good that I do not have any say in this respect as well..
Platapus
03-16-16, 03:12 PM
The biggest question is what is justice?
I believe that some people confuse justice with revenge.
Platapus
03-16-16, 03:15 PM
His rights !! did He have any thought of his victim's rights when he shot them in cold blood.
No, he did not have any thoughts about the victim's rights. That's why he is a criminal. The very definition of a criminal is someone who breaks the law and or shows no respect for the rights of others.
The state should not be a criminal. That is why the state respects the rights of its citizens, despite what the citizen may or may not have done.... Because the state is not a criminal.
I believe that some people confuse justice with revenge.
My thoughts exactly, and in many situations, such as for the relatives of those who have been directly affected by the perpetrator that is perfectly understandable. In other situations...
Jimbuna
03-17-16, 08:25 AM
His appeal will likely get turned down, the annoying thing is that the media were allowed in to film the event, thus giving him air time which is the oxygen on which his type thrives. Should have been a closed hearing really, murder appeals should be. Once a murderer is in prison that should be the last we hear of them until the news of their death is announced. They should be forgotten, because every moment that they are remembered is more than they deserve.
Court cases=Money :03:
Not in the media..
Longer its dragged out the better for some persons rubbing their hands with glee.
In the Media..
This vile person is having a good time making the rest of us feel sick and angry.
Agreed.
Platapus
03-17-16, 05:14 PM
Should have been a closed hearing really, murder appeals should be.
Closed hearing? aka secret tribunal? No way that could be abused. :nope:
There should not be any reason why due process is to be conducted in secret.
The entire purpose of an appeal is to challenge the decision of the government in a case.
Do we really want to give the government the power to conduce secret hearings and then proclaim "uh, no the appeal was denied, but we really looked at it carefully and son-of-a-gun, it turned out that our initial decision was correct. Imagine that!"
I don't want to live under a government that has that power. I fear that the US is rapidly moving to that and it scares me.
Closed hearing? aka secret tribunal? No way that could be abused. :nope:
There should not be any reason why due process is to be conducted in secret.
The entire purpose of an appeal is to challenge the decision of the government in a case.
Do we really want to give the government the power to conduce secret hearings and then proclaim "uh, no the appeal was denied, but we really looked at it carefully and son-of-a-gun, it turned out that our initial decision was correct. Imagine that!"
I don't want to live under a government that has that power. I fear that the US is rapidly moving to that and it scares me.
An open hearing could be abused too. Breivik used about two hours to present his saying-and he used about 30 minutes to talk about his manifest an other things.
A court is not a place from where a person can give his or her political view.
Markus
Platapus
03-17-16, 05:27 PM
But with an open hearing, people would have a much better chance of detecting that the hearing was abused. A much greater chance than with a closed hearing.
As for him speaking? Who cares? Let him speak. The judge can limit the amount of time he is allowed to speak. If he wants to use this time to make declarations, so be it.
Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me. :03:
But the surest test for a country's dedication to its citizen's rights is no better demonstrated when applied to someone they really really dislike. :yep:
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