This time it seems they nailed it for real: gravitational waves

[Skybird]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-35524440

If true this is one of the very real and most maximum biggies in the history of science.

[Tchocky]

"We found a beautiful signature from of the merger of two black holes and it agrees exactly - fantastically - with the numerical solutions to Einstein equations... it looked too beautiful to be true," said Prof Danzmann.
Prof Sheila Rowan, who is one of the lead UK researchers involved in the project, said that the first detection of gravitational waves was just the start of a "terrifically exciting" journey.
"The fact that we are sitting here on Earth feeling the actual fabric of the Universe stretch and compress slightly due to the merger of black holes that occurred just over a billion years ago - I think that's phenomenal. It's amazing that when we first turned on our detectors, the Universe was ready and waiting to say 'hello'," the Glasgow University scientist told the BBC.


Big news!

[Skybird]

^ An understatement that is.

If true.

[Dowly]

Gotta love science! :up:

[Betonov]

Does this mean that gravity travels with the speed of light ??
Answering the question if the sun just disapeared would Earth take a straight line at that same moment or would we still follow an orbit for 8 more minutes.

That's what I get from this
"The fact that we are sitting here on Earth feeling the actual fabric of the Universe stretch and compress slightly due to the merger of black holes that occurred just over a billion years ago - I think that's phenomenal.

[Tchocky]

We need to build a wall to keep these so-called "waves" out.

[Oberon]

Darn waves, coming over here and messing with our gravity, ain't right I tell ya! :nope:

[Commander Wallace]

Einstein really was ahead of his time. Scientists in Scotland have been working to artificially create black holes in the lab to examine and study the interaction of light and gravity with black holes.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2008/03/08/scientists-create-artificial-black-hole-in-lab.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2008/03/08/scientists-create-artificial-black-hole-in-lab.html

This is a fantastic discovery.


Meanwhile Presidential Candidate Donald Trump has released a statement confirming that he will not allow any undocumented waves into the U.S unless he knows it's religious affiliation or the waves are being unfairly targeted and persecuted. :03:

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

Darn waves, coming over here and messing with our gravity, ain't right I tell ya! :nope:
http://s6.postimg.org/plt89iawx/z0xvi.jpg

[fred8615]

And one half of the detector that found them is here in Louisiana! I've even been in it.

[tomfon]

Does this mean that gravity travels with the speed of light ??
Answering the question if the sun just disapeared would Earth take a straight line at that same moment or would we still follow an orbit for 8 more minutes.

That's what I get from this

Gravity is actually described by two theories: Historically, it was Newton who first proposed a theory (Newton's Law of Universal Gravitation) while Einstein described gravity more accurately in his general theory of relativity. So, according to Einstein's theory gravity or better, gravitational waves, travel with the speed light just as light does, since it behaves like a wave.

Now, if we suppose that the sun suddenly disappears, we will take notice of the phenomenon 8 minutes after it happened, because 8 min is -approximately- the amount of time that has to elapse, before light arrives to earth (the distance between sun and earth is approximately 150 million km). As to what happens to earth, well, earth would abandon its elliptical orbit flying off in a straight line, just like you said. Next, it might be possible that earth could "catch up" with an outer planet since (earth) will be travelling with a greater speed. However, the sun has enough fuel for another 5 billion years so i believe we're quite safe for the time being.:88)

[mapuc]

This is truly a great discovery. I try to compare it with other great discovery or inventions we the human kind have done since way back.

Markus

[Skybird]

This is truly a great discovery. I try to compare it with other great discovery or inventions we the human kind have done since way back.

Markus
I'm 49, and this is by far the most significant scientific story unfolding within the span of my life so far. In my book more significant than discovering and decoding the DNA, or the splitting of atoms. As I said, it is hard to overestimate this confirmation of Einstein's theory. It opens a whole new branch in astronomy-related sciences.

[vienna]

...It's amazing that when we first turned on our detectors, the Universe was ready and waiting to say 'hello'," the Glasgow University scientist told the BBC.

Did that incur roaming charges or is it covered in the basic service plan?... :hmmm:


<O>

[Betonov]

Ansd another thing.

If we now know gravity waves expand and contract space, doens't that also mean Star trek warp drive is a ''legit posibility'' :hmmm:

[Platapus]

I hope that once the European observatory is complete that we get a chance at replicating this experiment.

The bad news is that we may not have another such event for a long long time.

[vienna]

http://happynicetimepeople.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/einstein-speed-limit.jpg


<O>

[vienna]

...The bad news is that we may not have another such event for a long long time.


http://d1zlh37f1ep3tj.cloudfront.net/wp/wblob/54592E651337D2/1563/22F7AD/GQ_Hm1xVA4NmUkzdz3kOsw/Albert-Einstein-relativity-quote.jpg



<O>

[u crank]

When gravity waves I usually wave back. :D

[Torplexed]

It's rather amazing what they've managed to glean from just one event.

- Full confirmation of the existence of gravitational waves
- Existence of binary black holes
- Strong upper limit on the mass of the Graviton
- Black holes in a peculiar mass range - these are quite heavy for stellar mass black holes.

Now, if only they could find a way to block them negative waves.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/1f/d0/4a/1fd04a16210eacb7f934169f1e3a40c0.jpg

[Gargamel]

Yay Science!

[ivanov.ruslan]

I was interested to learn recently that Einstein assists Dr Hermann Anschutz in his work They were actually friends

[Jimbuna]

Interesting to see what, if any further developments are discovered as a result.

[Jimbuna]

In the meantime....

Ground controllers say it is time to give up hope of ever hearing again from the comet lander Philae.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-35559503

[Oberon]

If the Theory of General Relativity is on its way to being accepted as fact (obviously more observations will be required, which is a PITA since binary black holes aren't exactly a common occurance) then it perhaps gives some hope to the Alcubierre drive theory. :yep:

[ivanov.ruslan]

I mean the development of a gyroscope

[Commander Wallace]

The more I read of this, the more fascinating it becomes. I found a great article on the waves from Binary black holes this morning.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/02/12/einstein-predicted-gravitational-waves-100-years-ago-heres-what-it-took-to-prove-him-right/

It just amazes me Einstein understood such a complex concept as the theory of relativity and related phenomena before anyone even had a concept or idea of what that was.

Theoretical Physicist Dr. Michio Kaku in conjunction with Scientist Duncan Brown spoke on a CBSN broadcast to explain what it all means.

http://mkaku.org/


Renowned Astrophysicist Neil DeGrasse Tyson spoke at Columbia University shortly after the gravitational waves were detected .

http://anewdomain.net/2016/02/11/neil-degrasse-tyson-gravitational-waves-discovery-matters-raw-video/

[Skybird]

The mega-big news of this theory confirmation is that so far observing astronomy almost exclusively depends on observations in the electromagnetic spectrum. You now add a complete new "sense" to the possibilities of astronomers, its as if a person born blind and so far only listening into the world with his ears, suddenly gets fully operational eyes and visual eyesight, so to speak.

You can bet this will make a dramatic change to the way in which this person "sees" and approaches the world - both that of his present and that of the future. Gravitational waves becoming observable now and the theory behind it confirmed, will drastically change the way in which man sees the cosmos, you can bet your life on that. Even possible, even likely, that still far away future technologies will come from this that would have been impossible to invent if being limited to the cosmological theory basing on electromagnetic waves exclusively.

This shows why theoretical sciences and basic research are so important and fundamental. Economists and businesses are wrong if demanding to fund only projects that will turn into a product and fiscal profits within a forseeable amount of time. It also shows why it is wrong to cut down sciences at German schools more and more and focus exclusively on social competences (or illusions about them) and job-relevant tool-like pieces of information and skill. I hate what they are doing to German public schooling, it is a disaster unfolding in slow motion and showing its destructive effects with a time delay only.

[Aktungbby]

It's amazing that when we first turned on our detectors, the Universe was ready and waiting to say 'hello'," the Glasgow University scientist told the BBC.
It just amazes me Einstein understood such a complex concept as the theory of relativity and related phenomena before anyone even had a concept or idea of what that was.

IT"S A 'WEGIAN thing!??!!:yeah: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/86/Einstein_tongue.jpg/220px-Einstein_tongue.jpg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Einstein_tongue.jpg)A billion years ago and light years away...how about 17 years ago and 93,000,000 miles away and we still don't know why but sumpthin' said 'hullo':doh:! http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/1999/ast13dec99_1/ (http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/1999/ast13dec99_1/)From May 10-12, 1999, the solar wind that blows constantly from the Sun virtually disappeared -- the most drastic and longest-lasting decrease ever observed.
Really not good if your into (unreliable) solar wind sail propulsion interplanetary travel...and U R suddenly 'becalmed';:huh: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b6/Heliospheric-current-sheet.gif/250px-Heliospheric-current-sheet.gifhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_wind (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Heliospheric-current-sheet.gif)http://www.space.com/images/i/000/007/694/original/nasa-solar-sail-nanosaild-110120.jpg?interpolation=lanczos-none&fit=inside|1600:1400

[Platapus]

Even though it is a comic, this particular one has a pretty good explanation of what happened, in human understandable terms

http://www.phdcomics.com/comics.php?f=1853

[mapuc]

I find it very interesting in what response I get about this Major Science discovery.

Skybird started a thread about and some of us replied

I made a statement(in Danish) on my wall, about this discovery and a link-NO one of my friends have made any comments.

If i made political or religious comment they surely would response-

Makes one wonder.

(sorry for this detour from the topic)

Markus

[Oberon]

If it bleeds, it leads. :03:

[Dowly]

After a couple of beers (when I always get my best ideas), I just really realised how amazing this all is. My god.... anyone got more beer?

[Oberon]

What if you got two beers and rotated them around each other...

Maybe that's the waves that causes the floor to move after the consumption of varying amounts of alcohol? :hmmm:

[Betonov]

You know the thought experiment when scientists said what woul happen of the sun simply vanished, would Eart leave orbit imidiately or continue to orbit for another 8 min and this discovery proves that the Earth would continue on its orbit for another 8min, since gravity travels with the speed of light.

But gravity waves are caused by super massive objects making riples in the fabric of space like on a canvas.

If the sun simply vanished for any far fetched sci-fi reason, the space that was once bent by the mass of our star would spring back and the Earth would be ripped apart by these ripples. After 8 minutes.
I'm guessing.

[u crank]

If the sun simply vanished for any far fetched sci-fi reason, the space that was once bent by the mass of our star would spring back and the Earth would be ripped apart by these ripples. After 8 minutes.
I'm guessing.

You need more beer.:know:

[eddie]

Interesting article on what would happen if the sun suddenly disappeared.

http://www.spaceanswers.com/solar-system/what-would-happen-if-the-sun-disappeared/

[Skybird]

I find it very interesting in what response I get about this Major Science discovery.

Skybird started a thread about and some of us replied

I made a statement(in Danish) on my wall, about this discovery and a link-NO one of my friends have made any comments.

If i made political or religious comment they surely would response-

Makes one wonder.

(sorry for this detour from the topic)

Markus
Relativity in action.

[Gargamel]

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/gravitational_waves.png

[Rockin Robbins]

Ansd another thing.

If we now know gravity waves expand and contract space, doens't that also mean Star trek warp drive is a ''legit posibility'' :hmmm:
Yes, just put two mega-sun sized black holes in an engine nacelle and see what happens. I say you get warped into one of the black holes. It's warp drive, but maybe not exactly as intended.:o:o:o:o:o

[Aktungbby]

What if you got two beers and rotated them around each other...

Maybe that's the waves that causes the floor to move after the consumption of varying amounts of alcohol? :hmmm:

You need more beer.:know:

Needs more HAMM's references.
Oh please don't encourage him Jason :ohttp://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx22/aktungbby/hamms_bear_zpsl7dhnvqr.jpg We are now on a wave length I can relate to!:Kaleun_Cheers:

[Betonov]

Yes, just put two mega-sun sized black holes in an engine nacelle and see what happens. I say you get warped into one of the black holes. It's warp drive, but maybe not exactly as intended.:o:o:o:o:o

:O:

I meant: now we know that space can ''easily'' contract and expand.
Now we only need a reliable power source (a few gaxillion watts per second) and a way to warp drive is just one invention away

[Rockin Robbins]

:O:

I meant: now we know that space can ''easily'' contract and expand.
Now we only need a reliable power source (a few gaxillion watts per second) and a way to warp drive is just one invention away
I'll contribute 1 3000mAh 50C 3P lithium polymer battery!

[Betonov]

Humanity will forever remember your contribution as we take our first steps into outer space

[mapuc]

To stay in science and space-topic

It's not a question about if, but When we will have warp drive or similar.

Markus

[Oberon]

Aye, heck we could already have been out to further edges of the solar system and back had it not been for humanities inability to trust one another.
The Orion drive could have powered a manned ship to Pluto and back, and is still probably our best option for fast in solar system travel, but it's also one of the most dirty and primitive ones, so perhaps in the long term it was best that it was never used. :hmmm:

But yeah, I think that eventually we will get near light speed travel, and then faster than lightspeed travel most likely through some variation of the Alcubierre drive.
Technologically wise we are on the precipice of human expansion into space, and it can't happen soon enough given our frailty confined to one planet, taking just a well placed asteroid, nuclear war or epidemic to smash centuries of progress and achievement.

The big question is whether we, as a race, are ready for it. :hmmm:

[Skybird]

Speculation. Let's stick to a healthy minimum of reasonability and realism. There is no tech demonstration of any kind allowing to imagine warp drives and light speed drives, AFAIK. Even with light speed, man still would creep across an empty abyss of dimensions that are beyond his imagination.

So far we have not even send a man to any of our close neighbour planets like Mars or Venus. Reaching Moon still is a high risk adventure with uncertain ending even today. Our technology is extremely fragile, a still huge percentage of our probes fail to get their jobs done, crash on contact, work erratic. And even if we could reach Neptune with a manned craft, or the recently announced suspected giant planet beyond Pluto - this would still not qualify for a description of mankind doing space travelling, considering the dimension and ranges we talk about. If space would be an ocean and we send a man to Neptune, we still would not swim in the ocean, and certainly not dive in it or sail on it, we would not even have put a toe into a wave at the beach, we would not even see the ocean from a distance, or smell the salt in the air. We only would have heard a almost forgotten rumour about what an ocean is.

Human imagination may be big, but space is bigger. So: baby-steps, one after the other. In 50 or 100 generations, we talk again, if man then still is there. Personally I think we will have ruined ourselves much earlier, within the next 200 years or so. That is the by far more realistic scenario.

I also wonder whether man's psyche really is made for bearing the unimaginable empty void and loneliness that there is. I do not want to test it myself. I fear madness more than just death.

[mapuc]

So true Skybird

I did wrote When and this mean sometime in the future.

So as mentioned let stay around earth and the moon.

Markus

[Oberon]

Speculation.

To be fair, so was the Theory of Relativity until this week. :03:

[Red_88]

Human imagination may be big, but space is bigger. So: baby-steps, one after the other. In 50 or 100 generations, we talk again, if man then still is there. Personally I think we will have ruined ourselves much earlier, within the next 200 years or so. That is the by far more realistic scenario.

I also wonder whether man's psyche really is made for bearing the unimaginable empty void and loneliness that there is. I do not want to test it myself. I fear madness more than just death.

I agree that we probably ruin us much earlier, I give 100 years tops. The problem is while we progress in science we regress culturally and morally, far-sightness and wisdom are becoming more and more absent. Space travel or even space colonization will be absolutely pointless if we don't start to progress culturally and morally and sort our problems, but this will not happen. besides I really don't believe
we will manage to go really beyond our solar system anyway.

I think almost all people will not be able to bear the the empty void, only a very very few, who may bear it.

[vienna]

I'll contribute 1 3000mAh 50C 3P lithium polymer battery!

AW, c'mon, we know you've got 'em; stop hogging the dilitihum crystals...



<O>

[Commander Wallace]

The exciting , recent discovery of gravitational waves from binary black holes did considerably more than prove once and for all the validity of the theory of Relativity by Albert Einstein. It has now opened discussion on time travel and renewed interest on travels beyond the speed of light.

http://mashable.com/2016/02/11/gravitational-waves-einstein-time-travel/#.EWdYxxLQmqA




http://io9.gizmodo.com/all-the-evidence-that-time-travel-is-happening-all-arou-1446262029

This Charlie Chaplin video above purports to show a man entering from the right walking to the left holding a cell phone to his head. I think that's far fetched but still....


The 2nd video shows a woman walking in 1938 while talking on her cell phone.

There is also the video of the " Time traveling Hipster " along with a photo of Shirley Temple. All of this is in the 2nd link provided.

If true, who knows where this will lead us ?

[Reece]

But yeah, I think that eventually we will get near light speed travel, and then faster than lightspeed travel most likely through some variation of the Alcubierre drive.

Not without inertia dampers though.:yep:

[Platapus]

This Charlie Chaplin video above purports to show a man entering from the right walking to the left holding a cell phone to his head. I think that's far fetched but still....


The 2nd video shows a woman walking in 1938 while talking on her cell phone.



I believe these may be an example of a form of Pareidolia. "is a psychological phenomenon involving a stimulus (an image or a sound) wherein the mind perceives a familiar pattern of something where none actually exists." Wikepedia

We are familiar with a cell phone and the observed pose is similar to a person talking on a cell phone. There is not an obvious reason for what the people are doing (lack of context) so our mind, in searching for an interpretation "fills in the blanks" with something we know.

Different people will "see" different things depending on their experiences.

Older people who may not be as familiar with cell phones may "see" a person holding a transistor radio to their ear while younger people who have never used a transistor radio would be unlikely to "see" that.

Often the human mind, when presented with incomplete information, will attempt to fill in the missing information with more familiar stuff.

Photo interpreters spend many hours learning not to do this. :yep:

[Commander Wallace]

:agree: I feel the same way Platapus. Your explanation makes sense.
Those people in the video could well have been just scratching their ear. That's why I thought it far fetched and more likely the product of photo shopping.

Quote from Platapus : Different people will "see" different things depending on their experiences.

A friend , who had gone through Law School had a professor who conducted an experiment. The class all witnessed a " crime " . They were then all told to write down what they saw including a description of the " actor and crime ".

He was amazed at how widely the account of the entire class varied . This experiment was to demonstrate that people see what they want to see, perhaps based on bias. Others had described the event exactly .

[Dowly]

Or it could be a hearing aid, like the article suggests...

[Skybird]

In another forum I randomly got myself engaged in a brief cosmological debate, and one of the guys answered with a link to this 50 minute lecture by Lawrence Krauss: "The universe from nothing". Dry-humoured and laconic at times, I found this too entertaining and too good as if I would want to keep it from you. The lecture was given 2012 during the Zurich days of "Denkfest".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGV_ngLmDYc

Enjoy. :03: At least try to.

[Platapus]

A friend , who had gone through Law School had a professor who conducted an experiment. The class all witnessed a " crime " . They were then all told to write down what they saw including a description of the " actor and crime ".

He was amazed at how widely the account of the entire class varied . This experiment was to demonstrate that people see what they want to see, perhaps based on bias. Others had described the event exactly .

I think the whole concept of "eye witness" has been debunked. If I were serving on a jury and the only thing the prosecution had was an "eye witness" it would be a tough call how to vote.

How many people have been falsely imprisoned or even killed because of three three words: "That's him officer"