Fusion not so far away

[mapuc]

The last few month I have through IFL, Discovery Science and other science pages on FB, got interesting information

After have read all these interesting stuff, I guess we are about 15-20 years from the first real tokamak or stellarator reactor for commercial testing.

For eventually dreamers

Even though it is clean and a more power out than in, the electro company will find a way so we still have to pay a lot for out electricity.

Markus

[Oberon]

I think we've been 15 years away from Fusion for about 30 years now. :hmmm:

[mapuc]

It articles like these

http://www.iflscience.com/tags/nuclear-fusion

http://www.iflscience.com/tags/nuclear-fusion

http://www.iflscience.com/tags/nuclear-fusion

And many more have made me wonder if we are going to see a commercial fusion reactor in 15-20 years from now. The could of course be some backfire that made this moved further into the future

Markus

[Oberon]

One can hope, but it's like the announcements from NASA, you get so many of them that you tend to become a little bit wary of jumping the gun.
Certainly we're close, damn close, but we'll see if it happens in my lifetime.
Would certainly be nice though.

[Platapus]

I am glad we have people working on this, but I am not holding my breath

[Jimbuna]

I think we've been 15 years away from Fusion for about 30 years now. :hmmm:

Best if we prepare ourselve for another thirty maybe.

[mapuc]

You are right I was a little too optimistic putting up a time frame.

I do say-They will solve some of the problems that lays ahead when this will happen I don't know.

As Oberon said-Certainly we're close

Markus

[Mittelwaechter]

Have you ever considered what would happen to mankind, if we came up with some free energy device? It would change the planetary social structure and destroy whole societies, dependent on energy export.
And - whoever works and has an income, due to his workforce being cheaper than the equivalent of energy, would lose his job.

We are not prepared for free energy.

[Oberon]

Have you ever considered what would happen to mankind, if we came up with some free energy device? It would change the planetary social structure and destroy whole societies, dependent on energy export.
And - whoever works and has an income, due to his workforce being cheaper than the equivalent of energy, would lose his job.

We are not prepared for free energy.

Oh, they'd find a way to monetise it somehow.
In regards to societies dependent on energy export, I think we're seeing a fair bit of that now with the collapse in oil prices, I hear Nigeria is heading to the IMF with cap in hand because its economy is failing due to the oil prices.

I think the real problem we've got coming is the increasing mechanisation of the workforce and the reduction of available job opportunities that this will create. :dead:

[Betonov]

Fusion is not free.
You need hydrogen you can only get from dedicated facilities, high-paid engineers, support staff, maintenance, not to mention the payments to the banks for financing such a large investment in construction.
And a fusion reactor is not some miracle box where a star level power comes out of. They'll have the same output as a fission nuclear power plant.

Fussion is good becasue it takes an abundant element and turns it into a non radiactice, non toxic waste.

[mapuc]

Have you ever considered what would happen to mankind, if we came up with some free energy device? It would change the planetary social structure and destroy whole societies, dependent on energy export.
And - whoever works and has an income, due to his workforce being cheaper than the equivalent of energy, would lose his job.

We are not prepared for free energy.

I mentioned that in my first post

"For eventually dreamers

Even though it is clean and a more power out than in, the electro company will find a way so we still have to pay a lot for out electricity.
"

I wrote it in a different way.

Markus

[vienna]

...I think the real problem we've got coming is the increasing mechanisation of the workforce and the reduction of available job opportunities that this will create. :dead:

When I hear grousing about how technology is eliminating jobs, my response has been if a machine takes your job, learn how to fix the machine; it is the obvious solution since if there is a machine (or technology), it will eventually have some sort of failure and it is the person who knows how to remedy the problem who will be sought after and well paid. It's like the old Dale Carnegie slogan: "Find a need and fill it". This is why, while I may not agree with Obama on many issues, I do support his efforts to advance technology and science literacy in those student now coming up and in the future; if we're going to have advanced technology, we're going to need a workforce well versed in the technology. In the future, while the "Three R's" will still be important, knowing how to deal with a rapidly advancing technological society and its needs is equally important. We do a disservice to the future by teaching and training our kids for 20th century jobs in a fast moving 21st century world...


<O>

[Oberon]

This is true, although eventually there will come a point where machines can either fix themselves or fix the machine next to them, but you're right, we will at least for the next fifty...maybe hundred years need human input into the machine world in order to design and fix them. After that, I think they will be advanced enough to not need human input at all.
At that point there are a myriad of ways that humanity can go, we can either upgrade ourselves to work alongside our superior machine workers, or we can use these machine workers as a form of servile work force and focus our energies into recreational activities (although as the AI gets better and examines its role compared to us it may well realise that it is essentially being used as a slave) or we can become afraid of the rapid advance of the AI and try to fight against it.

I'm not so much grousing about the increased mechanisation of the work-force, after all, it's been happening ever since we invented tools, but I do foresee future problems that I think humanity should definitely take seriously, and thankfully through both a mixture of our best thinkers and our media, we are taking it seriously. You've got people like Stephen Hawking and Elon Musk talking about the dangers of rushing headlong into the AI age without considering the risks involved, and you've got media like 'Terminator' 'I, Robot' and even 'The Matrix' which paint the dangers of reckless AI expansion. This being said, we shouldn't react extremely negatively to the emergent AI because it won't be the AIs fault that we are scared of it, but equally we shouldn't lull ourselves into a false sense of security just because it knows Asimovs Laws of Robotics.

[vienna]

You might be interested in a US TV series, Person of Interest, which deals with the creation of an AI to monitor, analyze, and issue warnings about high level threats to national security. The AI, just referred to as "The Machine", is sentient and has some degree of morality due to the design of its inventor. The series has retained and sought out input from some of the leaders in AI science and has brought up many of the issues of what happens when, for all intents and purposes, someone creates "God". The series is currently dealing with a plot line where a second, and very much less moral, AI has gone online and is exerting its control over the lives of the population; in essence, it is God and Lucifer fighting over the souls of mankind, in this case with 0s and1s...


<O>

[Oberon]

You might be interested in a US TV series, Person of Interest, which deal with the creation of an AI to monitor, analyze, and issue warnings about high level threats to national security. The AI, just referred to as "The Machine", is sentient and has some degree of morality due to the design of its inventor. The series has retained and sought out input from some of the leaders in AI science and has brought up many of the issues of what happens when, for all intents and purposes, someone creates "God". The series is currently dealing with a plot line where a second, and very much less moral, AI has gone online and is exerting its control over the lives of the population; in essence, it is God and Lucifer fighting over the souls of mankind, in this case with 0s and1s...


<O>

Ah yes, Person of Interest, my mother watches that and I've seen a couple of episodes. I didn't realise about the new plotline though, might have to take a look at that one. I do like the chap who played Ben Linus in Lost, he is a good actor. :yep:

[Mittelwaechter]

100 workers replaced by 25 machines - kept in working condition by 4 technicians fixing the machines.

96% trying to become technicians, offering their workforce for cheap to get a job.

No well payed jobs availabe in this scenario.

[mapuc]

Latest important or breaking news

http://www.iflscience.com/physics/germanys-fusion-reactor-creates-hydrogen-plasma-world-first

Markus

[Rockin Robbins]

Now all they have to do is achieve a gravitational field of a small star, say only 333,000 Earth masses, then you only have to sustain a temperature of 100 million degrees Celsius. Heck, we're darned close but I don't know to what. It sure isn't nuclear fusion.

[vienna]

Ah yes, Person of Interest, my mother watches that and I've seen a couple of episodes. I didn't realise about the new plotline though, might have to take a look at that one. I do like the chap who played Ben Linus in Lost, he is a good actor. :yep:

In the finale of the current season, the evil AI, ironically named "Samaritan", has tracked down the good AI, the "Machine", who spread itself into the power grid rather than be based in some sort of server farm; Samaritan has cornered the Machine and the Machine's creator, Mr. Finch, along with his partners/protectors, is trying to salvage the core code in the hopes of rebuilding the Machine and returning to fight Samaritan. All the while they are attempting the rescue, Samaritan's human troops are trying to stop Finch and friends and eliminate them permanently. The show makes very impressive use of music and the final scene, where Finch and the machine have what may be their final conversation, uses Pink Floyd's "Welcome To The Machine" as the underscore to what is a bit of a Gethsemane-like scene where the Machine and its Creator have what may be their final words:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f97s4tvyDcU


<O>

[Betonov]

The game is on :Kaleun_Salivating:

Just last week, we reported that Germany’s revolutionary nuclear fusion machine managed to heat hydrogen gas to 80 million degrees Celsius, and sustain a cloud of hydrogen plasma for a quarter of a second. This was a huge milestone in the decades-long pursuit of controlled nuclear fusion, because if we can produce and hold onto hydrogen plasma for a certain period, we can harness the clean, practically limitless energy that fuels our Sun.
Now physicists in China have announced that their own nuclear fusion machine, called the Experimental Advanced Superconducting Tokamak (EAST), has produced hydrogen plasma at 49.999 million degrees Celsius, and held onto it for an impressive 102 seconds.


http://www.sciencealert.com/china-s-nuclear-fusion-machine-just-smashed-germany-s-hydrogen-plasma-record