International sanctions ended on Iran

[Oberon]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-35335078

No doubt many here will see this as a bad move, however we may feel the benefit at the petrol pump as even more oil is unloaded onto an already fairly saturated market, pushing prices lower.

[Stealhead]

I wonder what effect it will have on the typical Iranian?

[Oberon]

I wonder what effect it will have on the typical Iranian?

Right now, none I'd wager, except perhaps it might be easier to obtain some stuff abroad, and in the long term I doubt it will have that much effect either because the first thing that Iran is going to be doing with their new money is upgrading and overhauling their military so they are better able to fight Saudi Arabia, as well as funnelling money to anti-Sunni terror networks.
After that, their economy might start to pick up, perhaps when the oil prices finally spike back up like people expect that they will eventually, that's if the sanctions aren't reapplied by someone before then.

[Stealhead]

Yeah those ****e(aka Shia) milita in Iraq will probably get more aid and in Yemen. Which means that ISIS will get more money from its supporters and the proxy war will rage on.

[Betonov]

Our morons and fat cats sent a trade delegation to Iran a month prior.
Let's see if anything comes out of it.

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

After that, their economy might start to pick up, perhaps when the oil prices finally spike back up like people expect that they will eventually, that's if the sanctions aren't reapplied by someone before then.Primary reason to very low oil prices is that Saudi Arabia is dumping it into market in volumes and at low prices. At my understanding there is two reasons for this: a) to keep Iranian oil revenues low and b) to inhibit develompent of U.S. oil industry. Saudis ofcourse suffer themselves too and as result of lower oil revenue their budget deficit is huge. However they have opted to solve issue by cutting spending rather than curbing oil production so I wouldn't expect any oil price spikes in many years.

[Platapus]

That's the nice thing about sanctions. They can always be brought back if necessary.

Let's give Iran a chance and see.

[STEED]

Only time will tell if this is a good move or a bad move.

[Oberon]

http://i.imgur.com/whPmtET.gif
"It's on!"
"It's off!"
"It's on!"
"It's off!"
"It's on!"
"It's off!"
"That's called blinking, boys..."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-35338901

[Jimbuna]

That's the nice thing about sanctions. They can always be brought back if necessary.

Let's give Iran a chance and see.

I agree....and that is a lot more tolerant than what is currently coming out of Israel.

[Aktungbby]

Not an entirely clean bill of health here
Iran agreed to restrictions on its nuclear program and intensive inspections in an agreement signed with world powers in July 2015. Under the deal, many of the most punishing sanctions are poised to be lifted when the IAEA verifies that Iran has taken steps such as reducing its stockpiles of fissile materials and centrifuges. Still, some sanctions are unrelated to nuclear proliferation and will remain in place. U.S. sanctions on Iran, however, long predate these nuclear nonproliferation concerns. The United States first levied economic and political sanctions against Iran during the 1979–81 hostage crisis, shortly after Iran's Islamic Revolution. On November 14, 1979, President Jimmy Carter froze all Iranian assets "which are or become subject to the jurisdiction of the United States." The United States imposed additional sanctions when, in January 1984, the Lebanon-based militant group Hezbollah (http://www.cfr.org/publication/9155/), an Iranian client, was implicated in the bombing of the U.S. Marine base in Beirut. That year, the United States designated Iran a state sponsor of terrorism. The designation, which remains in place, triggers a host of sanctions, including restrictions on U.S. foreign assistance, a ban on arms transfers, and export controls for dual-use items. Sanctions related to sponsorship of terrorism and human rights abuses were not affected by the nuclear deal.
http://www.cfr.org/iran/international-sanctions-iran/p20258

[Oberon]

The question is, are they sponsoring the good terrorists or the bad terrorists? :hmmm:

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

The question is, are they sponsoring the good terrorists or the bad terrorists? :hmmm:Good question. I would say "good terrorists" but that conclusion is archived by comparing Hezbollah and Daesh... :hmmm:

[mapuc]

The question is, are they sponsoring the good terrorists or the bad terrorists? :hmmm:

Today we are friends with Iran. therefor must those terrorist group, Iran support be good. Tomorrow when we are not so good friend with Iran, those terror group are then bad.

Markus

[Catfish]

Today we are friends with Iran. therefor must those terrorist group, Iran support be good. Tomorrow when we are not so good friend with Iran, those terror group are then bad.Markus

:up: Exactly.


President Reagan and his good friends, the Mujahaedin.
As long as they were (ab)used to fight against Russia, in Afghanistan:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y174/penaeus/reaganandmujahideen1_zpssygqbi7p.jpg (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/penaeus/media/reaganandmujahideen1_zpssygqbi7p.jpg.html)


President Bush and his good friend, Saddam Hussein.
Thanking him for his engagement, against Iran:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y174/penaeus/bush-saddam_zpsiaw7nj34.jpg (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/penaeus/media/bush-saddam_zpsiaw7nj34.jpg.html)


Whoever you side with, be very careful when it comes to the US :03:

[Tchocky]

That might be the crappiest photoshop job I've ever seen.

Garbage.

[August]

That might be the crappiest photoshop job I've ever seen.

Garbage.

Not surprising though... :nope:

[Skybird]

I predicted that and expected that since Obama was elected. Its still a terrible mistake, nevertheless. When the world realises that, the reality-deniers responsible for this folly will shrug their shoulders and say "How should we have known? We meant it well."

Pakistan II quagmire ahead. Enjoy.

Also, this clsoing of ties with Iran that they celebrate, means a diplomatic approach with one of the worst financers and exporters of international terrorism. It means enabling our de facto ENEMY to support his fight against and confronting of the West, Israel, and the Sunni world. Because we hope to make a quick dollar from it.

We are a hopeless case. Some mental diseases cannot be cured.

[vienna]

That might be the crappiest photoshop job I've ever seen.

Garbage.

The photo of Reagan meeting with the Afghans is very real. It is an official White House photo; a copy of it can found on the Reagan Library website and is also found on this University of Texas website (its about the 25th picture down):

http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/archives/photographs/atwork.html

It also appears on the NSA Archives website...


<O>

[Oberon]

The photo of Reagan meeting with the Afghans is very real. It is an official White House photo; a copy of it can found on the Reagan Library website and is also found on this University of Texas website (its about the 25th picture down):

http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/archives/photographs/atwork.html

It also appears on the NSA Archives website...


<O>

I think he means the one with Dubya and Saddam.

[vienna]

I understood that but thought there may be some who might have thought both photos were phony, so I wanted to distinguish between them since the Photoshop comment was nonspecific...


<O>

[Oberon]

I understood that but thought there may be some who might have thought both photos were phony, so I wanted to distinguish between them since the Photoshop comment was nonspecific...


<O>

Ah, gotcha.

Yeah, the swiftness of how our enemies have changed and continues to change does boggle the mind really, doesn't it? I feel sorry sometimes for techno-thriller media authors, writers on series like NCIS who have to reflect who the latest bogeyman is. One season the Russians are helping them against the Jihadists, the next season they're trying to stop the Russians from assassinating someone.

https://i.imgflip.com/qcut0.jpg

[August]

How many of those Mujahadeen have been assassinated by the Taliban or died fighting them?

[vienna]

Actually. I did a little digging for facts (you should try it some time) while trying to make certain of the authenticity of the Reagan photo and a number of the sites made mention of some of those specific Afghans sitting with Regan later went on to become members and leaders of the Taliban the US fought after 9/11; and let us not forget about a Mujahadeen leader supported and abetted by the Reagan/Bush administrations: Osama Bin Laden. Play with enough poisonous snakes and you are likely to get bitten...


<O>

[Onkel Neal]

I've listened to both sides about the deal and I cannot say if I think it is good or bad. Like some have said, time will tell. Let's hope for the best, who knows, maybe Iran and the US will get past their unfortunate history. At least Iran is fighting ISIS (shia and sunni, I know).

[Jimbuna]

A leopard never changes its spots.

[Skybird]

^ ... and hope never is a good strategy.

[Tchocky]

That would be why hope isn't the current strategy.

Conditions, sanctions relief, inspections, and actually trading something the West wants for something Iran wants.

Real world diplomacy. It actually happens sometimes.

[Catfish]

A leopard never changes its spots.

True, but this is just about how the "leopard" is accepted by governments as an ally, as long as it is useful. Saddam was a dictator all the time. The Mujaheddin surely also were, but as long as it was about terrorizing Russia ..
b.t.w. the poto with Reagan and the Mujahedin is titled: "President Reagan meeting with Afghan Freedom Fighters to discuss Soviet atrocities in Afghanistan". The CIA file designation for those Mujahedin allies back then was "AlQuaeda".


The second picture is photoshopped, i should have posted the picture with Mr. Rumsfeld's handshake with Saddam back in 1983, when he sold him some chemicals ( most probably to be used for Saddam's hair )
(http://www.famouspictures.org/donald-rumsfeld-shakes-hands-with-saddam-hussein/)

However, with picture or not, Saddam was regarded as an ally against Iran for quite some time, and it was even thinkable (back then) to make him the strongest man in the middle east, to act as a kind of police, stabilizing the region. That, as we all know, has changed when Saddam decided to attack Kuwait.

Let's say influencing other nations is always a double-sided sword.

[Oberon]

Iranian oil makes prices drop below $28 per barrel, lowest since 2003:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35340893

Never thought I'd see that day, crazy stuff...still, the spike back up is going to hurt like hell when it happens so I guess it's best to enjoy the good times while they last...if the industries involved will actually forward the savings onto their customers (:har::har::har::har::har:).

[Catfish]

^ Diesel is now cheaper than the plant oil i have used for my car :huh:
The engine does not quite run as good with Diesel though :-?

[Oberon]

Yeah, typical isn't it? We've made all these preparations to deal with expensive oil by moving to oil substitutes and now it becomes cheap again.

Still, one could argue that moving away from oil and oil dependency, or at least trying to, has helped bring prices down a little bit (although the whole Saudi/Iran situation has helped most) and keeping away from that dependency will benefit the west in the long term as we become less susceptible to the whims of the oil market and the Middle East.

That's the theory anyway.

Over-reliance on anything is a bad idea anyway. :hmmm:

[Schroeder]

^This.
Everything that gets us away from ME oil is good in my books.

[Jimbuna]

Over-reliance on anything is a bad idea anyway. :hmmm:

I simply give thanks the buggas aren't major exporters of beer and dark rum :)

[Aktungbby]

http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/OIxZUEjFAs0NdEJuT7NcVA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3NfbGVnbztjaD0xNzA1O2NyPTE7Y3c9MzMzMD tkeD0xO2R5PTA7Zmk9dWxjcm9wO2g9NzAwO2lsPXBsYW5lO3E9 NzU7dz0xMzY3/http://l.yimg.com/os/publish-images/news/2016-01-16/eb77a560-bc84-11e5-82e0-0b4797574f25_AP_498445983685.jpgWell at least the US flag is to the right if nuthin' else is (right):hmmm:

[mapuc]

What if I said "In a very near future we will have a shortage of oil "

It has nothing to do with no-more oil under Saudi Arabian soil or other oil producing countries

Markus

[vienna]

I simply give thanks the buggas aren't major exporters of beer and dark rum :)

...not to mention or overlook pot noodles...


<O>

[Oberon]

...not to mention or overlook pot noodles...


<O>

STEED in five...four...three...

[Catfish]

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y174/penaeus/Iran_zpszcmserea.jpg (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/penaeus/media/Iran_zpszcmserea.jpg.html)

[Jimbuna]

...not to mention or overlook pot noodles...


<O>

STEED in five...four...three...

Rgr that :)

[August]

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y174/penaeus/Iran_zpszcmserea.jpg (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/penaeus/media/Iran_zpszcmserea.jpg.html)

Our governments are not at all the same. Does the US government commonly jail and execute groups of dissidents? Would the US government attempt to do the same to her if she set foot in our country like the Iranian regime would? Our governments are not the same and shame on her for saying otherwise.

[Aktungbby]

Does the US government commonly jail and execute groups of dissidents? Actually in answer to your query as queried: yes! and signed off by ol Honest Abe at that! Dr Mengele would have been proud too; Because of high demand for cadavers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadaver) for anatomical study, several doctors wanted to obtain the bodies after the execution. The grave was reopened in the night and the bodies were distributed among the doctors, a practice (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_snatching) common in the era. The doctor who received the body of Maȟpiya Akan Nažiŋ (Stands on Clouds), also known as "Cut Nose", was William Worrall Mayo (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Worrall_Mayo). Mayo brought the body of Maȟpiya Akan Nažiŋ to Le Sueur, Minnesota (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Sueur,_Minnesota), where he dissected it in the presence of medical colleagues. Afterward, he had the skeleton cleaned, dried and varnished. Mayo kept it in an iron kettle in his home office. All to the good IMHO, the Mayo Clinic is one of the top rated medical facilities in the world!:woot:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dakota_War_of_1862 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dakota_War_of_1862) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3a/MankatoMN38.JPG/1024px-MankatoMN38.JPGApproximately One-third of the Native Americans in the Owens Valley were forcibly relocated to Fort Tejon. After 1863, many returned to their permanent villages that had been established along creeks flowing down from the Sierra Nevada mountains...in the Manzanar area...after which, 1942, we moved in our Nipponese brethrenhttps://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/56/Manzanar_Flag.jpg/1024px-Manzanar_Flag.jpgOld Glory never waved more proudly!:03:...in either case? Let us review the main points of the debate. Over 120,000 residents of the U.S.A., two thirds of whom were American citizens, were incarcerated under armed guard. There were no crimes committed, no trials, and no convictions: the Japanese Americans were political incarcerees. To detain American citizens in a site under armed guard surely constitutes a "concentration camp." But what were the terms used by the government officials who were involved in the process and who had to justify these actions? Raymond Okamura provides us with a detailed list of terms. Let's consider three such euphemisms: "evacuation," "relocation," and "non-aliens." Earthquake and flood victims are evacuated and relocated. The words refer to moving people in order to rescue and protect them from danger. The official government policy makers consistently used "evacuation" to refer to the forced removal of the Japanese Americans and the sites were called "relocation centers." These are euphemisms (Webster: "the substitution of an inoffensive term for one considered offensively explicit") as the terms do not imply forced removal nor incarceration in enclosures patrolled by armed guards. The masking was intentional. [wiki]

[Oberon]

And before WWII but after the 1800s

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedition_Act_of_1918

[Betonov]

She may have meant that both goverments are full of old farts that abuse their wealth, power and things the population cares about (patriotism, religion, economy) to further their personal gains and goals without actual regard to practice what they preach themselves.

[vienna]

Regarding the "relocation" of the Japanese-American citizens, there was a great divide between the Hawaiian Nisei and the mainland Nisei since their cultural viewpoint was different given their geographical differences. The Hawaiian Nisei were a substantially large portion of the islands' population and rather more integrated into the general populace; the mainland Nisei had a bit of a harder time and faced more racial discrimination. When the Hawaiian Nisei Army units were combined with the mainland units, fighting broke out between the two over the perception by the Hawaiians that the mainlanders were overly sensitive and intense. A white Army officer had a brilliant idea and arranged for the Hawaiians to accompany the manlanders when they went to visit their families being held in a "relocation center". Hawaiian Nisei and their families were not subject to "relocation" and were not aware of the extent of the imprisonment nor the conditions of the "detainees". Once the Hawaiians saw the camp, they fully understood the suppressed anger of the mainland soldiers and the internal squabbling ceased. Th Hawaiians were appalled by the situation; as some of them put it, if the purpose of the internment was to protect the Nisei, why were all the the machine guns in the guard towers pointed inwards instead of outwards?...


<O>

[Platapus]

^This.
Everything that gets us away from ME oil is good in my books.

I strongly disagree with this viewpoint.

Oil is a finite resource. To me it is much better using someone else's supply of a finite resource first. Then once their supply is gone, we still have our supply to use.. or to sell at the price we set.

This is especially attractive if we are using the finite resources owned by a country we don't particularly like. :D

[August]

Actually in answer to your query as queried: yes! and signed off by ol Honest Abe at that! Dr Mengele would have been proud too

I would submit that if you need to go back a century and a half to find an example (which still pales in comparison to the ongoing excesses of the Iranian regime by the way) then it is not at all common.

[August]

She may have meant that both goverments are full of old farts that abuse their wealth, power and things the population cares about (patriotism, religion, economy) to further their personal gains and goals without actual regard to practice what they preach themselves.

And she would be correct but that is not what she said. Over simplification often leads to unintended meanings and one would think a writer would know better.

[Aktungbby]

I would submit that if you need to go back a century and a half to find an example (which still pales in comparison to the ongoing excesses of the Iranian regime by the way) then it is not at all common. Well I was bein' nice:D U didn't specify a time frame so ...WACO, 1993: 82 Branch Davidians: Thirty-three British citizens were among the members of the Branch Davidians during the siege; and 4 ATF agents. (16 wounded) All arrested and convicted Davidians had been released as of 2007. http://i1.wp.com/blog.newscom.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/branch-davidian-waco-explosion.jpg! Just as bad as the first two and time isn't really a factor anyway. Murder is murder. Normally I side with law enforcement; but not this mishandled mess. Considering that Timothy McVeigh cited the Waco incident as a primary motivation for the Oklahoma City bombing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing), his April 19, 1995 truck bomb attack that destroyed the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_P._Murrah_Federal_Building), a U.S. government office complex in downtown Oklahoma City (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City), and destroyed or damaged numerous other buildings in the vicinity. The attack claimed 168 lives (including 19 children under the age of 6) and left over 600 injured. The whole avoidable business just rankles to this day.

[August]

Well I was bein' nice:D U didn't specify a time frame so ...WACO, 1993: 82 Branch Davidians: Thirty-three British citizens were among the members of the Branch Davidians during the siege; and 4 ATF agents. (16 wounded) All arrested and convicted Davidians had been released as of 2007.

Go back and read my original statement. They didn't deliberately burn down that compound and it still pales by comparison. How many stonings has the Federal government ordered and carried out? Iran has carried out at least 150 since 1980. How many strangle hangings? How many 16 year old US girls are sentenced to this slow and torturous form of public execution? :nope:

I can go on so please just stop it AK, you know you're just grasping at straws here. The US government, for all it's warts and flaws is still leaps and bounds better than the Iranian regime on it's best day.

[Aktungbby]

They didn't deliberately burn down that compound and it still pales by comparison. How many strangle hangings? AK, you know you're just grasping at straws here. Well your point is not entirely invalid!:D As I've said before "All government is bad...the trick is to live where it is the least worst." (CHINA's worst imho) Mind, government is equally responsible for what it does and for what it does not do: add another total: The Tuskegee Institute (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_University) has recorded 3,446 blacks and 1,297 whites being lynched between 1882 and 1968, with the annual peak occurring in the 1890s, at a time of economic stress in the South and political suppression. (Pretty strangly imho) A five-year study published by the Equal Justice Initiative in 2015 found that nearly 3,959 black men, women, and children were lynched in the twelve Southern states between 1877 and 1950. And it's not Minnesota Nice either( they made a postcard out of it!:nope: warning graphic) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ec/Duluth-lynching-postcard.jpg/200px-Duluth-lynching-postcard.jpg In Duluth, Minnesota (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duluth,_Minnesota), on June 15, 1920, three young African-American traveling circus workers were lynched (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1920_Duluth_lynchings) after having been accused of having raped a white woman and jailed pending a grand jury hearing. A physician's subsequent examination of the woman found no evidence of rape or assault. The alleged "motive" and action by a mob were consistent with the "community policing" model. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynching_in_the_United_States (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynching_in_the_United_States) Throw in recent Chicago, Ferguson, Charlotte, Baltimore, and Oakland/San Francisco mishandled coverups and plainly nuthin' bad goes completely outta style...And we won't discuss the deaths by taser by government agents(police) which put the problem squarely within your more reasonable time constraint. According to data collected by Amnesty International, at least 500 people in the United States have died since 2001 after being shocked with Tasers either during their arrest or while in jail. Amnesty International recorded the largest number of deaths following the use of Tasers in California (92), "Of the hundreds who have died following police use of Tasers in the United States, dozens and possibly scores of deaths can be traced to unnecessary force being used," said Susan Lee, Americas program director at Amnesty International. "This is unacceptable, and stricter guidelines for their use are now imperative." But hey maybe your right: all those dead people are just straw/chaff; But before I remove the speck from Iran's eye, (A lynch rope or taser is more humane than stones:timeout:) I generally like not to have a log in my own eye; but then again, that's probably another stupid Christian concept. :03: Matt 7:5

[August]

Well your point is not entirely invalid!:D As I've said before "All government is bad...the trick is to live where it is the least worst." (CHINA's worst imho) Mind, government is equally responsible for what it does and for what it does not do: add another total: The Tuskegee Institute has recorded 3,446 blacks and 1,297 whites being lynched between 1882 and 1968, with the annual peak occurring in the 1890s, at a time of economic stress in the South and political suppression. (Pretty strangly imho) A five-year study published by the Equal Justice Initiative in 2015 found that nearly 3,959 black men, women, and children were lynched in the twelve Southern states between 1877 and 1950. And it's not Minnesota Nice either( they made a postcard out of it!:nope: warning graphic) In Duluth, Minnesota, on June 15, 1920, three young African-American traveling circus workers were lynched after having been accused of having raped a white woman and jailed pending a grand jury hearing. A physician's subsequent examination of the woman found no evidence of rape or assault. The alleged "motive" and action by a mob were consistent with the "community policing" model. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynching_in_the_United_States Throw in recent Chicago, Ferguson, Charlotte, Baltimore, and Oakland/San Francisco mishandled coverups and plainly nuthin' bad goes completely outta style...And we won't discuss the deaths by taser by government agents(police) which put the problem squarely within your more reasonable time constraint. But hey maybe your right: all those dead people are just straw/chaff; But before I remove the speck from Iran's eye, (A lynch rope or taser is more humane than stones:timeout:) I generally like not to have a log in my own eye; but then again, that's probably another stupid Christian concept. :03: Matt 7:5

Again what you're talking about is a mixture of accidental deaths and criminal activity. None of it is state sanctioned. Remember we're talking about governments here not the actions of individuals.

But another comparison you might indeed make is how these incidents are made public. Unlike here there is no Freedom of Information act in Iran, no right to free speech, no right to protest, no BoR, nothing but what the mullahs allow them to have and what they allow them to know.