Do enemy ships spawn?

[Col7777]

I'm new to this sim so forgive mu ignorance, I was wondering if say I'm on patrol, does my sub have a spawning radius?
What I mean is if say for example an enemy aircraft spots me does that trigger/spawn a DD to come looking for me, and or do enemy freighters spawn at random or are they just written in the mission?
21

[Rockin Robbins]

The answer is yes. And it's a different yes whether you are playing the latest 1.5 version or 1.4 or before.

With version 1.4 and before the position of every ship on the ocean is plotted and tracked by the program whether you could see it or not. The tremendous amount of memory overhead that created lead the devs to look for a better way.

Then came v1.5. Now the computer plots differently. First, it allocates all ships based on sector. But it doesn't track or plot them. They are Schrodinger's Cat, neither existing nor not existing, a bit like the potential particles around a black hole.

But for a radius around your sub, the computer does a lookup (shazzam! five ships in that area now, a task force and an escorted convoy), plots them and you find or don't find them. In addition the game consults all the mission files to see where to plot shipping around you. This made v1.5 work MUCH faster, more stable and a vast improvement over past versions. It alone justifies upgrading.

However, the rule of unintended consequences does rear its ugly head. You know, for every consequence you intend, there is another you did not intend and there is a good chance that one is bad. Suppose you go after a convoy and cripple one. "I'll come back and finish her off" you say. "I'll bag some more" you say. Good.

But if you wander far enough for that crippled ship to leave your supersecret radius of certainty, it then becomes a virtual ship to be unplotted. Go back and the virtual ship is plotted again. Somewhere. And in perfect shape. You can guarantee you won't find it and your 100% bagged target has vaporized. The second effect can be if a ship is sinking and you leave the area it virtualizes and you get no credit for a sinking.:o

It was still the absolute best thing the game devs ever did.

[TorpX]

Interesting.

I never new there was such a fundamental difference between v1.4 and v1.5.

************************************************** **********

Another item; things will not spawn within a certain radius of you.

So, for example, if you are lurking somewhere near the entrance of a port, you will not be likely to see convoys exiting as they begin their voyage. You might see convoys/ships going the other way, but these will be de-spawning as they close the port, since there is not a good way for the game to have them dock or disburse themselves. So hanging around enemy ports is not an effective tactic in SH.

[Captain Dave]

************************************************** **********
Another item; things will not spawn within a certain radius of you.

So, for example, if you are lurking somewhere near the entrance of a port, you will not be likely to see convoys exiting as they begin their voyage. You might see convoys/ships going the other way, but these will be de-spawning as they close the port, since there is not a good way for the game to have them dock or disburse themselves. So hanging around enemy ports is not an effective tactic in SH.




This is something I didn't know. Thanks for the heads up.

[Rockin Robbins]

Interesting.

I never new there was such a fundamental difference between v1.4 and v1.5.

************************************************** **********
Another item; things will not spawn within a certain radius of you.

So, for example, if you are lurking somewhere near the entrance of a port, you will not be likely to see convoys exiting as they begin their voyage. You might see convoys/ships going the other way, but these will be de-spawning as they close the port, since there is not a good way for the game to have them dock or disburse themselves. So hanging around enemy ports is not an effective tactic in SH.



This is very true. It is as if there were a spawning donut around you just out of detector range so that they don't just spawn in view. Nor will they despawn as long as they are in detection range.

[TorpX]

Nor will they despawn as long as they are in detection range.

I haven't seen it myself, but people have reported they will de-spawn in view. They would either have to de-spawn, or come to a stop, and sit there. Neither is very realistic, of course.

[Rockin Robbins]

I'll bet that is a result of scripting in the .mis files and the game probably struggles with that. After all the .mis file's job is to override the random spawning of the base game. If you're playing one of the supermods, like RSRDC, mission files control the whole shebang so I imagine those occurrences would be more common than in the base game.

Full statement of the law of unintended consequences, which describes our lot modding SH4 perfectly: For every intended effect of a change there will be at least two unintended consequences. One of them will be bad.:D

Then the modder makes a judgment call on whether the unintended consequence from the dark side is worth the other two. And then the players go stark raving crazy attacking the mod. Fun!:up:

[TorpX]

Then the modder makes a judgment call on whether the unintended consequence from the dark side is worth the other two. And then the players go stark raving crazy attacking the mod. Fun!:up:

Yup. :)

[Rockin Robbins]

The fun part is isn't which decision the modder makes. Whether they decide the change isn't worth it and dump it or they decide the exchange is better and keep it the result is the same. It isn't that the modder made the WRONG decision, it's that he made a decision AT ALL that results in all the flamethrowers.

Heck, even if the coin stands on end the modder loses!:haha::haha::haha:

[Captain Jeff]

C'mon modders. Don't lose heart. Modding isn't a no win situation. It's just a case of the feedback being more of the complaints than the compliments. Or at least people report what they perceive as a bug in an effort to perfect the programming. But not everyone thinks the mods have too many problems. Just look at your number of downloads and weigh that against the number of complaints and you might get a good estimation of how many people are enjoying your work.

For instance, I'm running
RFB
RFB patch
RSRDC
RSRDC patch
ISP 2.8
And I'm having a blast on my current patrol!!! I took the Gudgeon out of Pearl and I'm patrolling the area around the Bungo straight.

But getting back to the OP: If I am running an end around attack on a ship, how far away can I get before it despawns? Is the spawning doughnut fairly large or do I have to keep the ship pretty much in sight?

[Rockin Robbins]

C'mon modders. Don't lose heart. Modding isn't a no win situation. It's just a case of the feedback being more of the complaints than the compliments. Or at least people report what they perceive as a bug in an effort to perfect the programming. But not everyone thinks the mods have too many problems. Just look at your number of downloads and weigh that against the number of complaints and you might get a good estimation of how many people are enjoying your work.

For instance, I'm running
RFB
RFB patch
RSRDC
RSRDC patch
ISP 2.8
And I'm having a blast on my current patrol!!! I took the Gudgeon out of Pearl and I'm patrolling the area around the Bungo straight.

But getting back to the OP: If I am running an end around attack on a ship, how far away can I get before it despawns? Is the spawning doughnut fairly large or do I have to keep the ship pretty much in sight?
If he's visible on your radar you're golden. No chance he's despawning.

[Armistead]

I've had numerous groups despawn on me in port....nothing pisses me off having got a few torps in and chase them into port and poof........gone, right within view when they reach the last waypoint.

[Armistead]

C'mon modders. Don't lose heart. Modding isn't a no win situation. It's just a case of the feedback being more of the complaints than the compliments. Or at least people report what they perceive as a bug in an effort to perfect the programming. But not everyone thinks the mods have too many problems. Just look at your number of downloads and weigh that against the number of complaints and you might get a good estimation of how many people are enjoying your work.

For instance, I'm running
RFB
RFB patch
RSRDC
RSRDC patch
ISP 2.8
And I'm having a blast on my current patrol!!! I took the Gudgeon out of Pearl and I'm patrolling the area around the Bungo straight.

But getting back to the OP: If I am running an end around attack on a ship, how far away can I get before it despawns? Is the spawning doughnut fairly large or do I have to keep the ship pretty much in sight?

The magic spawning circle around your sub is basically the reach of your best equipment during the war, although it's not perfect. It's why you can hear to the furthest spawn point on sonar if you do it yourself and your crew only reports based off the equipment they're using and other factors such as speed and weather. After much testing, I think the magic number for distance is about 23nms. I've lost visuals and radar of course, but you don't want to lose them on sonar when you're using it yourself to ...cheat hear.

The above is why most use the lag cheat... You can always tell when a group has spawned in your zone, more ships the better, your pc will start working and if you watch your stop watch, things lag down....your sonar crew won't call it out, but people just go to sonar themselves and get a bearing and head that way.

[fireftr18]

The magic spawning circle around your sub is basically the reach of your best equipment during the war, although it's not perfect. It's why you can hear to the furthest spawn point on sonar if you do it yourself and your crew only reports based off the equipment they're using and other factors such as speed and weather. After much testing, I think the magic number for distance is about 23nms. I've lost visuals and radar of course, but you don't want to lose them on sonar when you're using it yourself to ...cheat hear.

The above is why most use the lag cheat... You can always tell when a group has spawned in your zone, more ships the better, your pc will start working and if you watch your stop watch, things lag down....your sonar crew won't call it out, but people just go to sonar themselves and get a bearing and head that way.

I wouldn't exactly call the lag a cheat. In real life, there isn't time compression (duh) and contacts can be found. In the game, using time compression, I see it as a help in detecting because of using tc. (Did that make sense?)

[Col7777]

If for instance and only (IF), say you left port and only sailed about 30 - 40 miles and sailed in a big circle, are you likely to encounter some enemy ships rather than sail for miles hunting for them?
I realise you won't complete your objective programmed in the mission but I was just wondering if the enemy ships would still spawn and you could have some fun.

[Rockin Robbins]

If for instance and only (IF), say you left port and only sailed about 30 - 40 miles and sailed in a big circle, are you likely to encounter some enemy ships rather than sail for miles hunting for them?
I realise you won't complete your objective programmed in the mission but I was just wondering if the enemy ships would still spawn and you could have some fun.
That depends. If you're playing RFB, TMO. GFO or stock then yes, enemy shipping spawns randomly around you and that would work.

If you add RSRDC to the mix, then random spawning is supressed in favor of all shipping being scripted in the .mis files. That means that ships will spawn outside ports, travel to their destinations and despawn, tending to be scheduled the same as they were during the war. If you're too close to the port they won't spawn at all.

But then you can just hang out, outside spawning range and just watch the shipping come to daddy. Because they will go exactly where they did in the war whether you are there or not.

It's as if you were playing a boxing simulator. You've dialed up Ali-Frazier II and you're playing the simulation. But there's Frazier, punching the air where Ali was during the real fight. You just stand to the side and punch Frazier while he's busy punching the phantom Ali. You win by knockout and never get touched. That's RSRDC.

[Col7777]

I'm not familiar with the abbreviations yet, what is RSRDC?

I'm in the middle of a single mission, I must have traveled hundreds of miles and not one ship spawned, then when I'm in enemy territory so to speak like in the real world I saw ships and convoys spawning all over the place.
Problem is they are too far away, by the time I get there they are gone, so like you said above I may just hang about and wait.
18

[Armistead]

If for instance and only (IF), say you left port and only sailed about 30 - 40 miles and sailed in a big circle, are you likely to encounter some enemy ships rather than sail for miles hunting for them?
I realise you won't complete your objective programmed in the mission but I was just wondering if the enemy ships would still spawn and you could have some fun.


no, only if they're scripted by waypoints that way....you must be along their course and be where time would place them via the mission editor...

Keep in mind, some campaign or traffic differs based on stocks or mods. For instance, some like stock and TMO groups spawn more based on percentages. A group may have 10 ships, 5 ships may have a 50 % chance to spawn and then the group itself may have a 50% to spawn every so many hours. What this does is each group that spawns will be different and it won't spawn at the same time., but it will still follow the set waypoints. Compare that to RSRD where most groups are 100% spawn rate with the same ships. Once you learn patterns, you can always find the same group at the same spot at the same time. The good point of RSRD is almost perfectly historic traffic and battles, the downside is with a lil study or learning, you can always find the same group at the same time.

[Captain Jeff]

Well, I can handle a 23nm spawning/despawning range. I can't see myself going more than 23nm away during an end around.

I see what Rockin Robin is saying about RSRDC. I like the historical shipping but the drawback is it doesn't react at all. Also, once you know where a ship is then you know where it will always be. I sank a carrier on one of my patrols. It was the first patrol of a career. The career ended when the planes got me. But now, whenever I start a new career, I'll always know where to go to sink that carrier. Maybe time would make me forget where I sank a freighter convoy but I'll remember that carrier.

But that's just the way it is. Every cloud has a silver lining and every silver lining has a cloud. We take what we can and everybody uses the sim in the way they like best. After all, I wonder how much processing power and how much disk space we would need to run a subsim with dynamic shipping that varied every career and reacted to our performance in the war. Maybe one day. But for now, I still think modded SH is far and away the best out there.

And I can't see myself more than 23nm away just to avoid detection during an end around!!! Good to know I won't get too nervous and end up despawning the tonnage.

[Col7777]

If my memory serves me right, going back years, I think 'Floater' was his sig he did a mod for Pacific Aces using the spawning circle but he added 'Randomization' so the same mission varied each time you played it.

I don't know if he is still on here but we did exchange many emails during the making of Pacific Aces, I remember him asking me to use his mod and try and break it so he could make it perfect.
I never could by the way, I forgot the name of the mod he did, but my point is as already mentioned was the randomization that he added.

I know this sim is programmed different but for someone with the programming knowledge could do it, I wish I could lol.


17

[ColonelSandersLite]

Nor will they despawn as long as they are in detection range.

I've seen this several times. Both friendly and enemy vessels. Both campaign and single mission. The culprit is the "delete on last waypoint" option in the mission editor.

That depends. If you're playing RFB, TMO. GFO or stock then yes, enemy shipping spawns randomly around you and that would work.

If you add RSRDC to the mix, then random spawning is supressed in favor of all shipping being scripted in the .mis files.

I can't speak for the others, but this is incorrect for TMO. In TMO, nearly all ships spawn near a port and go to a port. It's not the historical traffic of RSRD, but that is still the way it works. To the best of my knowledge, the sole exception is the big fixed piece naval engagements (like the battle of midway). The task forces do spawn a long ways away, but not in port. At a guess, the reason for this is to make it easier to get the timing down correctly. I.E. so all ships arrive for the battle at the correct time without having to endlessly fiddle with their exact paths.