Penetrating convoy screens, and one bug/technical question

[andqui]

1) I'm having the wind/wave sound bug where it continually loops, even while submerged or in calm weather, occuring after I alt+tab. Most of the references to this known bug I can find are from several years ago- is there a known fix for it nowadays?

2) I need help getting past convoy escorts (NYGM). I'm having an issue with escort vessels seemingly detecting me magically when I try to approach submerged under the convoy screen. I'm guessing that they are constantly pinging for contacts while making their sweeps, so I should try to avoid passing near them or at too shallow a depth.

However, there have been several times where I have made my approach, not heard any pings, only to find the convoy alerted and buzzing with activity even before I raise my scope. How on earth do they detect me? I'm not going very fast under water, and besides hydrophone ability should be reduced with them constantly moving around at 7-10 knots up there.

thanks

[GoldenRivet]

1) I'm having the wind/wave sound bug where it continually loops, even while submerged or in calm weather, occuring after I alt+tab. Most of the references to this known bug I can find are from several years ago- is there a known fix for it nowadays?

Im not aware of any mod or patch that addresses this, however if you save and exit the game (surfaced of course) i seem to recall this corrects the issue when you re-load

2) I need help getting past convoy escorts (NYGM). I'm having an issue with escort vessels seemingly detecting me magically when I try to approach submerged under the convoy screen. I'm guessing that they are constantly pinging for contacts while making their sweeps, so I should try to avoid passing near them or at too shallow a depth.

However, there have been several times where I have made my approach, not heard any pings, only to find the convoy alerted and buzzing with activity even before I raise my scope. How on earth do they detect me? I'm not going very fast under water, and besides hydrophone ability should be reduced with them constantly moving around at 7-10 knots up there.

thanks

irregardless of the mod used, convoy escorts are either listening passively, or listening actively

in passive listening, the destroyer creeps at slow speed listening for the sound of your propeller beats on his hydrophone. You should not get close to or attempt to go under the convoy escorts as even at ahead slow with silent running set, at short enough range the escorts WILL hear you, depending on the year and skill level i wouldnt get within 1,000 meters of an escort if possible.

another technique is to click the small button by your speed telegraph which switches it to the speed dial, there you can order a speed of 1 knot, this reduces RPM to 50 and makes the sub much quieter. however, if you are close enough to the escort, he will probably hear you with hydrophones.

[andqui]

in passive listening, the destroyer creeps at slow speed listening for the sound of your propeller beats on his hydrophone. You should not get close to or attempt to go under the convoy escorts as even at ahead slow with silent running set, at short enough range the escorts WILL hear you, depending on the year and skill level i wouldnt get within 1,000 meters of an escort if possible.

another technique is to click the small button by your speed telegraph which switches it to the speed dial, there you can order a speed of 1 knot, this reduces RPM to 50 and makes the sub much quieter. however, if you are close enough to the escort, he will probably hear you with hydrophones.

Any good techniques for getting the diagonal right between the front and side escorts?

[GoldenRivet]

I try to get a few miles out ahead of the convoy where the lead escort and first column are barely visible through the scope and steer directly toward them.

as they approach i can plot the position of the outer most rows on the map screen after a few sightings I can plot their course on the map screen using the ruler tool... I try to plot the course of the outermost rows of merchants. once i have a good idea about where the outermost rows will be I can adjust my course left or right as needed to end up in the sweet spot about 500-1000 meters off their beam.

I use GWX, not sure about NYGM but in GWX the flank escorts will break off on a search pattern every few minutes, this creates a good opportunity to maneuver into the convoy's 10 and 2 o'clock positions about 45 degrees off either side. just be sure to give the lead escort a wide berth.

another option - works the same way, but with a little more patience you can find yourself inside the lanes instead of just outside them, you just have to wait for that lead escort to pass by.

the approach can also be made at night on the surface in early war years. the pro to a surfaced approach is - enemy hydrophones cannot hear other surfaced vessels so they HAVE to spot you visually which is difficult especially if you control your temptation to rush in at high speed. most attacks in 1939-lat 1941 were made from the surface

the con to surface approach... you are not invisible to the naked eye and can be spotted and will then have to pull the plug and crash dive thereby spoiling any chance of attack but the destroyers will have a rough time seeing your little boat. additionally, in late war the escorts have radar so you have about a 95% chance of being detected and the surface approach is impossible unless radar hasnt come out yet

[RConch]

When you go in on the surface, set your depth for 7 meters and go in at 1/3 or standard speed. Only your tower is exposed.:salute:

[GT182]

If you get in front of a convoy just run at silent running or sit and wait at all stop. Escorts won't even know you're there..... unless they run over you. ;) Then you can let them pass and pick out the juicy targets like the tankers and big cargo ships. I wait until I'm inside the convoy and them wreak havoc. The escorts will have no idea where you are until you thin the heard. Then pick them off one by one.

One trick I've used is to lie and wait under a ship that's dead in the water and not sinking. The escorts will circle and eventually give up and leave seeing they can't depth charge you.

[andqui]

If you get in front of a convoy just run at silent running or sit and wait at all stop. Escorts won't even know you're there..... unless they run over you. ;).

That's what I've been trying to do. Approach from the front, go deep to 80 m and silent running, attempting to then pop back up to periscope depth once the escort passes. I'm detected without ever hearing ASDIC pings about 30% of the time.

[GT182]

I stay at periscope depth to keep an eye on things. But, that was with SH5, and SH3 when we didn't have all these new mods we have now.

I'm just getting back into SH3 and I'm working on a new install of GWX and one of WAC 4.1. I'll have to see what happens with them once they're all set up. Maybe I'll have the same problems as you're having.

What Super mod are you running, or are you running a vanilla SH3 install with mods?

[GoldenRivet]

That's what I've been trying to do. Approach from the front, go deep to 80 m and silent running, attempting to then pop back up to periscope depth once the escort passes. I'm detected without ever hearing ASDIC pings about 30% of the time.

what year?

just sitting there dead stopped is not always an option... a submarine is a hallow metal tube underwater, sound travels more efficiently through water than it does air because it is a denser medium. escorts can hear you with their hydrophones without having to ping you.

in SH3 a slow moving escort - depending on the skill level of the particular escort - WILL detect you if you get close enough to it, even if you are silent running, even if you are stopped. in real life there would be dozens of fans, motors, pumps, actuators and compressed air valves all making little noises constantly. if you are close enough, they are going to hear this stuff. keep your distance. especially after 41-42... and you can forget about 43. beyond 1941 there arent many rookie escorts any more... the Allied Navies of the world became very adept at one thing above all else during the war years and that was killing German U-boats. in WWI the greatest technological and tactical advancements were made in the field of aviation... this wasnt true of WWII where arguably the greatest developments in tactics, technology and capability centered around anti-submarine warfare. Simply put, the allies had ONE job in the Atlantic... KILL SUBS

statistically, in 1943 onward, a German U-boat crew had about an 80% chance of not returning home from patrol. these supermods remove the "game" element and tweak the AI to replicate realistic odds of survival. so while in stock SH3 you can creep right under a destroyer and shoot them the finger as you pass - even in some cases surface and gun duel it with a destroyer... it is simply not an option in GWX / NYGM.

id say if you are creeping by escorts and experiencing detection only 30% of the time you are doing a GREAT job really. in 1939-1940 you should be experiencing closer to 95% success rate. especially at night if attacking while surfaced. Surface attacks should be carried out at night, early in the war, from a the median range of your torpedoes, preferably in rougher seas with worsening weather (overcast, not raining). turn tail and leave the scene at medium speed once you have fired your shots. the destroyers will be banging away with ASDIC looking for a submarine under water that isnt there. be wary of search lights and star shells - i have seen that escorts typically rush to the stricken ships or just off their beam a few hundred meters, they will scan that area with passive and active sonar as well as scan the convoy lanes with search lights and star shells... if you are far enough away the searchlights/star shells wont find you.

the secret to a good convoy attack is patience and persistence. it is intensely frustrating to spend the time getting into position and getting caught, but if that happens you just have to evade the escorts and spend a day or two in game getting yourself back into attack position. theres not really a secret recipe for getting inside the lanes of the convoy 100% of the time like a ghost.

[ivanov.ruslan]

One of the tactics in World War II is the penetration convoys back, where weaker guards, at night navigate on the surface
But after the introduction of radar, this tactic is hardly was very effective
I've noticed that the excitement easily slip into the convoy in an underwater position, even in 1943
When a storm is also easy, but not very realistic :shifty:

[Obltn Strand]

When you go in on the surface, set your depth for 7 meters and go in at 1/3 or standard speed. Only your tower is exposed.:salute:
Doesn't work in NYGM. It only cuts down speed and also diving time...nothing else. Keep your profile small, set speed to 1/3 and never go closer than 2000m...

[Aquelarrefox]

im having the same in late 41'. Destructor infront convoy, seems to start pinging me with no reason at cloudy night, silent running, periscope depth. Why? Is normal that they start doing it.

i dont bealive they could detect periscope, medium range but no so weaves, mybe thats the problem. i will tray again 40m depth. (im playing again after some years so im warming again) But i dont remember this kind of magic.

Could it be Stiebler patch (becose with similar mod and h.sie) i dont remember this magic detection.

[bstanko6]

Discipline!

1) Silence: go to silent running, and get your motors to 50 rpm. Anything louder will be heard. It should be noted, if the escort stern is facing you, they can't hear you! Food for thought.

2) Profile: keep your bow towards to the escort. At least until it is moving away, then go back to intercept course. This keeps your profile low not only passively but if they use ASDIC.

3) Periscope: keep it down. Do not use it carelessly. It will be seen. Limit your scope use to 1 minute at a time. Better yet, don't use it until that lead escort has long passed you.

4) Depth: if you are near the surface, getting ready to attack, you should be deeper than periscope depth. If your U-Boat pops out of the water for any period of time, you will be detected. Wait for the escort to gain distance, and then come to periscope depth.

Of all these issues, newer players are detected mostly because of poor periscope discipline!

You new guys, think about it, how many times are you looking through the scope, when all of a sudden you hear the ping? Ahhhhhh haaaaaa!

Also don't dive deep. In NYGM, if you at 50 rpm, you will never resurface. Too slow. Dive planes need speed to produce lift.

[Aquelarrefox]

no, good periscope disipline, hard to decet even during day. Raised a little over surface to read distance and aob and at firing time.

I found the answer and was my mistake, i was wrong and there was radar in 1941. One scort spot me. I dive in same place and he look for me.
I should make and U move at 40 m to avoid sonar conus. Same for GWX and NYGM, and WAC sure.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=215765
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2246286&postcount=22

i thought about how these escorts could come charging at my position assuming everything works as intended

Since i used hydrophone to locate the convoy at long range i obviously came in front of it using diesels at surface maintaing long range

1. One of the escorts had radar (both times in different convoys) (in january 1941) and picked me up in semi bad weather and remebered my position once i dived in front of the convoy...(i thought i was safe from escorts radar at least until 1942 and that early radars were very not effective against uboats)

2. Always thought that they cant, but can a escort hear you on its hydrophone if you are on the surface? Then again like radar it remebered my position once i dived and came charging at me

EDIT: It was night in both cases with semi bad weather so it couldnt be visual detection

SOME MORE EDIT: Did some research and wikipedia says that prototype radar was first tested at sea in March 1941 and operational units were fitted in august 1941...The Uboats.net page tells that U 100 (sunk in march 1941 captained by Joachim Schepke was the first uboat sunk by being detected by radar (coincedentaly my current Uboat designation ingame thats how i runed into this info :P)

AND SOME MORE EDIT: Just read in a book Churchills Navy by Brian Lavery that "32 sets of Typ268M were fitted by end of 1940...by middle of June 1941 some 200 ships had them but that their wavelenght was not suitable for anti sumbarine warfare,especialy in rough weathers." So i guess i was extremly unlucky to run into two convoys that had radar equiped escorts and that they did manage to detect me in that weather.Talk about chances. But then again dont know how GWX simulates this Yes, yes to many war stages, i forgot this.

[bstanko6]

Good luck to you then.

[sublynx]

Any good techniques for getting the diagonal right between the front and side escorts?

US Navy maneuvering board manual from 1941 has some exercises that can be used but he problem is that the escorts are not keeping a steady course. You would either need to plot the escorts for a long time to figure out the pattern or just take an educated guess on the right course and adjust according to the situation.

[Aquelarrefox]

hey hey, does the radar detection of periscopes is intantaneous when periscope rised at 4000m? Even with 25 seconds rised it?

i think radar should work worst in short ranges.

wich mod should be recomended to twick how radar works as many have been done to fix viasual sensors?
something like this: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1816299&postcount=33
some experience with it? theres a torpedo range correction too.