Crew Skills

[grenadier98]

I'm new to the game and I tried to find am explantion about the crew skills and their contribution to the efficiency of the different compartments. I've searched a lot but all that I could find was the following list and I'm not sure if it's correct. I'm confused because all the guys in the command room have high leadership, but the list doesn't show it at all. Is it useful to have a high leadership skill on every watch leader of every compartment?

Deck Watch
Mechanical 0.2
Electric 0.2
Guns 0.2
Watchman 1.0

Torpedo Room
Mechanical 0.5
Guns 0.5

Engine Room
Mechanical 0.6
Electric 0.4

Control Room
Mechanical 0.4
Electric 0.2
Watchman 0.4

Conning Tower
Electric 0.5
Watchman 0.5

Damage Control Team
Mechanical 0.4
Electric 0.4
Guns 0.2

[ColonelSandersLite]

Leadership provides a skill multiplier basically. Good leaders will make a compartments total efficiency rating go up and bad leaders seem to make it go down. The leaders in the command room effect the whole boat. But yeah, that list looks about right to me.

[TorpX]

If you're really interested, the best way to figure out how much these things change the Efficiency levels is to take some time out on the next patrol, and swap out some of the crew, and note the changes. If you do this awhile, you will get a good feel for what you can expect in this area.

Pretty much every compartment has a 'Leader' slot that gives a bonus to that compartment. There are a few 'Officer' slots that give a bonus to the entire boat. I believe that the game just considers the best active Officer, not all of them. Obviously, fatigue is very important.

You can dig into the game, and open up the subs' *.upc files to see what skills are used, and which slots are the officer slots.

[Sailor Steve]

SH4 has a function other versions of the game don't. When you're getting ready to attack, or are being attacked, click the 'Sound General Quarters' button. This will activate the whole crew, sending them to Battle Stations, and will put the best of the leaders into the leader slots. Your boat will be at its absolute best.

Don't forget to 'Relieve from General Quarters' when you're done, or the entire crew will stay there until they all pass out from fatigue.

[Aktungbby]

grenadier98! :Kaleun_Salute:

[Jimbuna]

Welcome to SubSim grenadier :sunny:

[grenadier98]

Thanks for all your answers and your welcome greetings. I changed a few crewman and a Petty Officer and now I'm out on my first patrol in a Tambor Class Sub from Pearl Harbor to Japan to drop off a spy. I managed to sank a freighter with 8100 tons.

So far I couldn't figure out how to shoot a slavo... I've played SH 3 before and there it was possble to select several tubes at once and to adjust the angle. I didn't find this option anywhere in the Tambor Class.
Is it just my imagination or does a crash dive with a US sub takes forever compared to a German Type VII? I know that the US subs are much bigger, so maybe that's the reason.

[Rockin Robbins]

So far I couldn't figure out how to shoot a slavo... I've played SH 3 before and there it was possble to select several tubes at once and to adjust the angle. I didn't find this option anywhere in the Tambor Class.
Is it just my imagination or does a crash dive with a US sub takes forever compared to a German Type VII? I know that the US subs are much bigger, so maybe that's the reason.
American and German subs both didn't fire multiple torpedoes at once. That a major defect in SH III. The reason is that when torpedos malfunction, and they do, you don't want a premature detonation of one torpedo exploding the others launched at the same time or throwing them off course.

It was standard practice for Germans and Americans to launch torpedoes at least 5 seconds apart.

The Type VII was a tiny sub, suited for coastal defense but not really suited to the open ocean warfare it was forced to engage. So it had to take on less water to dive, which took a shorter time and it could dive quicker. The Type IX, being in the same displacement class as the Amreican fleet boat, too comparable amounts of time to dive.

What the Type VII had to give up to achieve the quick diving times wasn't worth the exchange. The Germans required a far superior design to make any meaninful dent in the Allied convoys. They never got it. Instead they were stuck trying to run the Daytona 500 with a 1960s Volkswagon Beetle.

[fireftr18]

What the Type VII had to give up to achieve the quick diving times wasn't worth the exchange. The Germans required a far superior design to make any meaninful dent in the Allied convoys. They never got it. Instead they were stuck trying to run the Daytona 500 with a 1960s Volkswagon Beetle.

http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r496/fireftr18/Herbie_zpsrdf6wmba.jpg (http://s1168.photobucket.com/user/fireftr18/media/Herbie_zpsrdf6wmba.jpg.html)

Welcome aboard Grenadier! :salute:

I'm assigning you personal assistant to Aktungboy. He needs all the help he can get.

[ColonelSandersLite]

Oh man. About a year ago or so, I saw a classic bug that somebody had hotrodded just parked in the walmart parking lot. It was painted metallic purple and the massive supercharged engine they put in it didn't even fit in the car and was hanging out the back on some sort of support rack. In order to improve traction, the rear tire size was increased to the point that the rear wheels didn't fit in the wheel wells at all so they extended the axels so that the whole rear wheel system was outside the car's normal limits. Honestly, my description probably doesn't do it justice, but it was really a pretty damn cool machine.

[Gibus]

Bonjour,

For my part, and despite numerous attempts, I have never been able to quantify the effectiveness of officers with specific skills.
Some, like the doctor, are not measurable. Others like the officer-machines, never brought any piece of additional knot, on the surface and underwater.
I gather that this is a pure marketing spiel.

But I'm wrong maybe ....

[scubamatt]

The left most slot in each compartment, in each watch row, is the one where the Leadership rating has an effect. It multiplies the efficiency of everyone in that compartment, on that watch.

The same is true for the Deck Gun crew, and the Damage Control team, the left most slot is where you want the crewman with the highest Leadership rating.

In the Command Room compartment, the left most slot not only multiplies the efficiency for that compartment, it also multiplies the efficiency for everyone on duty, anywhere in the boat. This is the OOD slot, and the most important on the boat. When the boat is at Battle Stations, everyone gets a slight boost to efficiency (which is then multiplied). Put your best leadership guys in those three slots (first, left most position of each watch) in the Command Room, for the best effect to your crew.

When you promote crewmen, look at their skill set before you promote them. If you take a specialization (Torpedoes, Engines, etc) they get a big bump to the important skills for that specialization. As an example, a crewman who takes the Engines specialization will get a big bump to Mechanical and Electrical skills, and nothing else. Those are the two skills that matter in the Engine Room compartment, so when you assign crew to that compartment, only Mechanical and Electrical skill numbers should matter to you (except the watch leader, where his Leadership rating matters too). When you promote from enlisted to Officer, they get a bump in their Leadership skill.

[TorpX]

Bonjour,

For my part, and despite numerous attempts, I have never been able to quantify the effectiveness of officers with specific skills.
...
I gather that this is a pure marketing spiel.

But I'm wrong maybe ....

Imo, this is largely correct. Even so, most of us (myself included :)) will spend time shuffling our crew go get things 'right'.





In the Command Room compartment, the left most slot not only multiplies the efficiency for that compartment, it also multiplies the efficiency for everyone on duty, anywhere in the boat. This is the OOD slot, and the most important on the boat. When the boat is at Battle Stations, everyone gets a slight boost to efficiency (which is then multiplied). Put your best leadership guys in those three slots (first, left most position of each watch) in the Command Room, for the best effect to your crew.



All the officer slots are the same as any other. That one might be the most important to you, but as far as the game is concerned, they are all the same. There are only three kinds of crew slots; crewman, leader, and officer.

When at Battle Stations, everyone is on duty and contributes. Secondly, there is a different efficiency denominator used. So for example, on a normal shift, you might have 2 men on duty in the fwd torpedo room, with their Ef total divided by 2, and at BS, have 6 men on duty, with their Ef total divided by 3. The Efficiency denominator (and the fact that everyone is on duty) is the main reason you get a boost at BS.

[ColonelSandersLite]

All the officer slots are the same as any other. That one might be the most important to you, but as far as the game is concerned, they are all the same.

I'm pretty sure that's not actually the case. I have observed plenty of times where moving an officer to/from the command room has a serious effect on the efficiency rating of the whole boat. Now, I know that you did some digging in the relevant modifiable files and that's probably where that thought is coming from. However, just because there's no modifiable control that you can alter, doesn't mean that there isn't a hardcoded modifier built into the game exe.

Edit:
And here's proof. Note the difference in crew efficiency in the berthing and the aft torpedo. You can also see the individual shift/compartment bars have shifted as well. Admittedly, the difference is much easier to see if you actually move the guy between slots, instead of trying to view above/below like the examples below.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y91/ColonelSandersLite/crew%20efficiency%201_zpsoojj3png.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y91/ColonelSandersLite/crew%20efficiency%202_zpsdtvcu5dr.jpg

[ColonelSandersLite]

There's one sort of general thought I had that may be helpful to someone that's pretty new to the game.

If you look, you can see that the crew is at 0 fatigue when in port. When you go throwing a couple weeks of normal fatigue into the mix, you will not be getting the same total efficiency ratings that you had at the start of the trip. From my experience, this makes leadership have a much more pronounced effect on compartment efficiency than can be seen when moving personal at port. Just food for thought anyways.

[TorpX]

I really doubt that one officer slot works any differently than any other. Others have posted what you stated saying that the first Deck Watch slot was the 'critical' one. Nothing I've seen tells me one is any better, or worse, than another.

Next time I'm on patrol I'll try some experimenting to see what I can learn. When I was playing around with this stuff I had it pretty well figured out, but I didn't bother to write anything down, and I can't remember the messy details.

[Gibus]

Here are my crew in November 1944, after having cut the Takeo Kurita's fleet of more than 130,000 tonnes in the San Bernardino Strait and then front Samar Island.
Although it has a highly qualified crew, if I miscalculated my shot solutions, torpedoes will not go into the belly of Japanese battleships. So I think it is better to first improve oneself, improve before others.

[TorpX]

Wow! Your boat layout is a lot different than mine.

And your crew is very large. :o

What class of cruiser did you say you commanded?

[ColonelSandersLite]

Same layout as mine.

[TorpX]

I guess it just looks odd to me, being used to the RFB style layout.

I notice that both of you have crew berthing full. In RFB it is used to put the deck watch crew during periods of submerged operation. What purpose does it serve? :06:

The control room also seems too small.

Is that a stock layout, or TMO?

[ColonelSandersLite]

TMO. My screenshot isn't from career, I just started a single mission. So other than just shifting those officers, it's completely the default roster.

It's not the deck watch you gotta worry about, it's the gun crews ;). If you've been moving the Deck watch all this time, that sentence probably just saved you a ton of work.


I can only guess at his layout, but the guys in the berth are probably his AA gunners. I would guess that he also moves the more important deck gun crew into the berth when it's an issue.

Personally, all that I ever put in the berth anymore is some of my deck gun crew.

[Gibus]

What class of cruiser did you say you commanded?

Bonjour TorpX,

I said nothing. But since you ask, is Balao. :)
I play with TMO 2.5 + French mod translated.

I closed my twentieth patrol with 4.36 million tons.

[Majestik 909]

Whenever conditions permit, I play thr radio and dictaphone for the crew. I noticed morale and efficiency greatly increases....

[TorpX]

It's not the deck watch you gotta worry about, it's the gun crews ;). If you've been moving the Deck watch all this time, that sentence probably just saved you a ton of work.




I don't think so. In RFB, the deck watch is certainly vulnerable.

Maybe Ducimus gave them protection in TMO, but I wouldn't rely on that. I mean why would he? Isn't it axiomatic that the deck watch is going to be exposed and vulnerable?

Of course, the boat will function just fine either way (until something explodes nearby).

[ColonelSandersLite]

Isn't it axiomatic that the deck watch is going to be exposed and vulnerable?

Wait, do you mean when you're on the surface getting shot at? Because if that's the case, in my experience *everyone* on the boat is able to be killed. I remember one time, I got pinged by a single 20mm round and it seriously injured a guy in the forward torpedo room and did 1% hull damage with no other damage. That's not what that compartment is for really. It's there as a workaround for a bug where deckgun and AA gun crews, but not deck watch crews, can easily be killed by depth charges. 95% sure about that. Really.

Did some more digging to move that 95% to 100%. If you don't believe me, maybe you will believe these guys:

its a stock bug with the game and the solution to the gun crews being injured by depth charges is solved by going to crew management screen and moving them to the damage control station and they wont be hurt anymore by depth charges. just be sure to move them to gun stations before surfacing.

One thing to be careful with. The exterior slots of the game, deckgun and AA guns are still exterior slots even when dived. Just poor game programming, so even if you're dived the game still see's the men in these exterior slots....so move them to the alley or elsewhere. They can also easily be killed by depth charges. This just applies to your DG and AA gun, not watch slots.

And straight from the TMO manual (written by ducimes):
7. Deck and AA gun crewman being killed while submerged. This is due to a design flaw of the game. Place your crewman in “hogan's alley” (after battery crew berthing) when not in use.

[TorpX]

I guess TMO is a lot different here. I opened up a couple TMO files:


Deck Watch .........................crew exposure 0.3
most hull compartments..............................0.1
most guns.............................................. ....9.0

So, you're more or less right; watch crew is fairly safe. At least they are much safer than if they were left at their guns.

In RFB deck watch and guns are both vulnerable.

And straight from the TMO manual (written by ducimes):
7. Deck and AA gun crewman being killed while submerged. This is due to a design flaw of the game. Place your crewman in “hogan's alley” (after battery crew berthing) when not in use.

The design flaw really applies to all compartments equally. They can all be changed/modded to be as safe, or as vulnerable as we wish. It is just that their status does not change when we submerge or surface. So, we can either make the deck watch vulnerable (which makes sense when we are on the surface - not so much when we are under it), or we can make them protected (which only makes sense when we are submerged).

I guess Ducimus thought convenience should take precedence here.

In RFB, I recommend players send their deck watch below when diving. Hogan's Alley has empty slots, as does some other sections. The guns are only manned for very short periods, and those by torpedo room crews. It seems odd to me to have extra crew just for those.

[ColonelSandersLite]

So you got me curious and I looked at the stock files as well, the quote from webster should be a clue as to why ;). Ducimus didn't change the deck watch crew exposure as 0.3 is the stock value. He did increase the gun crew exposures to 9 though. Their stock values where 0.5 and 0.7 for AA and deck gun respectively.

If RFB is running different values, it's just some kind of RFB exclusive balance thing. Honestly, it sounds like a huge annoyance to me too.

Personally, I don't use torpedo room guys for the deck gun slots, I actually mostly use deck watch crew. If you look at their stats, you will probably notice that they tend to be pretty decent at gunnery. The gun compartments also apparently use the watch skill and gun skill equally. I do also use a couple of unskilled seamen that stay in the berth as well. In my head, those guys are roustabouts.

I've never noticed the difference between the 0.3 deck watch compartment and the 0.1 compartments either, and I've been depth charged plenty of times. I would guess that the difference there is very slight. Maybe a logrithmic algorithm? Dunno though, I'll probably keep an eye out for it in the future.

[TorpX]

I believe RFB tried to model crew rosters according to the way the boats actually functioned. So, torp room crew mans guns. You'll notice that there is no 'weapons' skill. So there is one weapons/guns/torpedo skill for everything.

As far as where this or that skill is found, all these things are alterable. Just because something is a certain way in stock, doesn't mean we have to keep it that way.

I've never noticed the difference between the 0.3 deck watch compartment and the 0.1 compartments either, and I've been depth charged plenty of times. I would guess that the difference there is very slight. Maybe a logrithmic algorithm? Dunno though, I'll probably keep an eye out for it in the future.

I doubt it's logarithmic. Most of the time we wouldn't notice anything because we try to avoid depth charges. It only comes up when things go wrong. One other thing; I didn't check the armor values of all these compartments. I suspect Duci has the deck zone the same as the rest of the boat. This would make any vulnerability less noticeable. This goes back to what I said before. If we make the deck more protected, it's unrealistic one way, if we make it vulnerable, it's unrealistic another way.



Something I'm curious about. Has anyone actually had fatalities from the crew drowning? I've never lost any crew to flooding, but maybe I've just been lucky.

[Rob Jacobsen]

Wait, do you mean when you're on the surface getting shot at? Because if that's the case, in my experience *everyone* on the boat is able to be killed. I remember one time, I got pinged by a single 20mm round and it seriously injured a guy in the forward torpedo room and did 1% hull damage with no other damage. That's not what that compartment is for really. It's there as a workaround for a bug where deckgun and AA gun crews, but not deck watch crews, can easily be killed by depth charges. 95% sure about that. Really.

Did some more digging to move that 95% to 100%. If you don't believe me, maybe you will believe these guys:





And straight from the TMO manual (written by ducimes):
7. Deck and AA gun crewman being killed while submerged. This is due to a design flaw of the game. Place your crewman in “hogan's alley” (after battery crew berthing) when not in use.

So have I been wasting time moving men out of the deck watch slots every time I dive?

[KaleunMarco]

So have I been wasting time moving men out of the deck watch slots every time I dive?

no, certainly not.
the most exposed crew are those actively manning guns.
the next most exposed crew are the Watch Crew.
after the first two categories, everyone else is under the same risk factor.

so, yes, keep moving your watch crew to some interior space as it will reduce their exposure to injury.