Question to modders about radar settings in RFB 2.0

[xXNightEagleXx]

If you want to skip the source of my question just go the the part two.

PART I

A few days ago, i opened a tread about "AI sonarman not detecting sounds". At that time, it turned out that something went wrong with my installation and a reinstall solved everything (at least partially). However, it was pretty obvious that RFB 2.0 has all sensors limited (i know i'm obvious here XD). From there i started to search what might be the reason and it was pretty obvious that there was no weird behavior but it was the way that rfb has been configured (sim files).

From there, i started to do researches online for real life performance of the equipments found in the game and compare all those values to stock, rfb and tmo.

Unfortunately i have not found precise and specific values, but i've found others type of data (notes, considerations, bibliography, catalogue,etc...) that indicates that in rfb the range is extremely limited (like they opted to the reliable range in the worst scenario rather than something in the middle between worst and best). Just to note rfb settings allow any AI detection to not be greater than about 11000 yards which is extremely short.

In rfb manual you can find this part :

"18:43
Periscope depth. Sonar reports contacts bearing 355, Long Range. Single ping shows range 22500 yards....."

moreover this one :

"17:32 Sonar reports convoy containing at least one merchant, 2 or 3 escort bearing 86 deg. Long Range. Surfaced and ran toward for one hour"

Now these two quotes contradicts rfb settings itself by implying that detection was much much greater. You can even find audio of sonar where in the description it says about 25000 yards for a tanker (http://www.hnsa.org/resources/historic-naval-sound-and-video/jp-sonar/)


PART II

Everything above lead me to check the sensor file for radar data consistency.
Luckily real performance radar data was easier to find (i'm aware about marketing).
Now unlike for sonar/hydro part, there is a huge discrepancy between stock and rfb/tmo and i'm not talking about range itself.

In the sensor sim file there are two fields for range which are "precise range" and "maximum range". To better introduce my question i will take sj radar balao as example.

Stock :
- precise range, 20000 (21872 yrd)
- maximum range, 73152 (80000 yrd)
TMO :
- precise range, 0
- maximum range, 27432 (30000 yrd)
rfb
- precise range, 365.76 (400 yrd)
- maximum range, 27433 (30000 yrd)

In the real performance data that i have found, the maximum reliable was between 15000-30000 yrd (depending on the target size) and the maximum detection was beyond 80000 yards but that data was prone to error that could lead the radar guy to misinterpret the data (which could seem to be very very very closer).
IMO, developers used precise range as reliable range and maximum range as maximum itself. Modders instead used precise range as some sort of accuracy data and maximum range as reliable range.

Supposing i've been clear enough and my statement is right, my question is :

Was this swap intentional (thus limiting the equipment) or a mistake (thus making the instrument working wrong)?

I will not ask if does create any sort of different behavior on the game because from my test it does (regardless weird or not). In stock, where it uses the values correctly (according to my assumption), the detection range was from 38070 yards which is above the precise range and far below the maximum range (which i would totally expect). Using rfb or tmo the detection was below maximum range.

In rfb SD radar for example use the same data (again correctly according to my assumptions) of the stock with the precise range slightly improved.


NE

NB: In case my theory is right i'd definitely say that rfb/tmo sensors setting need a total revamp (even more for rfb if you consider the sonar/hydro limitation)

[xXNightEagleXx]

Wrong title, please can someone remove the "in rfb 2.0" part?

[ColonelSandersLite]

Two things.

There are multiple types of radar, you have not specified which one you are talking about. Guessing by the range, you're talking SJ-1 (not SJ, that's a different set) though?

Second, 40 miles even under perfect conditions seems to me to be *really* dubious due to simple line of sight. Radar line of sight beyond the horizon is defined by this formula:

rangeNM= 1.23 * (sqroot radar height + sqroot detected object height)

If I recall, the height of the sj-1 antenna is 33 feet. The top of the superstructure of an IJN BB, which is about as tall as it gets, is going to be in the ballpark of 130 feet (depending on class obviously, but this should be a fair approximation).

The math there yields a maximum theoretical detection range of 21 miles under ideal conditions. Honestly, I don't know if the power output of the radar set could even reach out that far, but supposing it could, that is still around half of 40 miles you're talking about.

I guess what I'm saying is that I would need to see a credible source to even believe a 40 mile number when everything else I've seen is saying that detection of a battleship is more realistically around 11-16 miles (depending on conditions).

[xXNightEagleXx]

Two things.

There are multiple types of radar, you have not specified which one you are talking about. Guessing by the range, you're talking SJ-1 (not SJ, that's a different set) though?

Second, 40 miles even under perfect conditions seems to me to be *really* dubious due to simple line of sight. Radar line of sight beyond the horizon is defined by this formula:

rangeNM= 1.23 * (sqroot radar height + sqroot detected object height)

If I recall, the height of the sj-1 antenna is 33 feet. The top of the superstructure of an IJN BB, which is about as tall as it gets, is going to be in the ballpark of 130 feet (depending on class obviously, but this should be a fair approximation).

The math there yields a maximum theoretical detection range of 21 miles under ideal conditions. Honestly, I don't know if the power output of the radar set could even reach out that far, but supposing it could, that is still around half of 40 miles you're talking about.

I guess what I'm saying is that I would need to see a credible source to even believe a 40 mile number when everything else I've seen is saying that detection of a battleship is more realistically around 11-16 miles (depending on conditions).


As i said i've merged all the information that i found here and there trying to filter out as much as possible. Yes i was referring to the sj-1, my bad. By the way my point was not about the 40 nm itself (let's not focus here, although even i consider 40 nm a little too much) but rather to how the field usage has changed from original developers implementation to mods usage.

[Rockin Robbins]

I concur with 22,000 to 32,000 yard max detction range. I don't recall seeing any contact reports over 25,000 yards. I'll have to scan the contact report I have at home, purporting to be a database of every submarine contact of the war, courtesy of Tater.