Minimum arming range for a Mark 14?

[scubamatt]

How close can I be, and still have enough time for the torpedo to arm and explode on a target? Does contact only vs contact/influence make a difference?

I was closing in on a slow moving convoy this morning, on the surface and in extremely bad weather, radar was intermittent, and visibility was total crap. It finally showed a ship icon 600m from my sub. I was watching from the bridge when the ship finally became visible at just over 400 yards.

I fired the torp I had ready and crash dived, making a hard turn to port (opposite the targets line of travel) and nearly rammed him as my torpedo exploded. Took some light damage, but not sure if it was from scraping the target ship or backblast from my own torpedo exploding.

I got to thinking about that, and so I came here to ask.

[cdrsubron7]

How close can I be, and still have enough time for the torpedo to arm and explode on a target? Does contact only vs contact/influence make a difference?

I was closing in on a slow moving convoy this morning, on the surface and in extremely bad weather, radar was intermittent, and visibility was total crap. It finally showed a ship icon 600m from my sub. I was watching from the bridge when the ship finally became visible at just over 400 yards.

I fired the torp I had ready and crash dived, making a hard turn to port (opposite the targets line of travel) and nearly rammed him as my torpedo exploded. Took some light damage, but not sure if it was from scraping the target ship or backblast from my own torpedo exploding.

I got to thinking about that, and so I came here to ask.

I think the arming distance for the Mark14 is somewhere around 300 yds. Not sure what that is in meters. :salute:

[Barkerov]

If you go to the submaine loadout screen and click on a mk14 that should show you information including arming distance.

From memory I think its 450 yards (411m)

[aanker]

How close can I be, and still have enough time for the torpedo to arm and explode on a target? Does contact only vs contact/influence make a difference?

I was closing in on a slow moving convoy this morning, on the surface and in extremely bad weather, radar was intermittent, and visibility was total crap. It finally showed a ship icon 600m from my sub. I was watching from the bridge when the ship finally became visible at just over 400 yards.

I fired the torp I had ready and crash dived, making a hard turn to port (opposite the targets line of travel) and nearly rammed him as my torpedo exploded. Took some light damage, but not sure if it was from scraping the target ship or backblast from my own torpedo exploding.

I got to thinking about that, and so I came here to ask.
I would guess back-blast from your torpedo .... if you look at DC's blast damage & radius of blast for critical damage charts, 400 yards is very close. Of course this is a torpedo, not a DC - plus if this is later in the War you could have Torpex which is approx 50% more powerful than TNT.
However, you said you're on the surface and crash-dived, so there could have been a collision.....

I'm surprised it had enough time to arm at 400 yds, even if set to slow-speed.

Because after (now famous) extensive testing the influence exploder was found to be defective, I always use the 'contact' setting beginning around the time period the order went out.

There is a lot of math necessary to figure this one out... lol

I guess 450 yards : )

Happy Hunting Captain!

[Aktungbby]

I guess 450 yards : )
http://archive.hnsa.org/doc/torpedo/ (http://archive.hnsa.org/doc/torpedo/) '...and as a result the spring contact of the switch is forced down, making electrical contact with the fixed contact. As soon as electrical contact is made, the condenser is discharged through the electric detonator (Fig. 8A), s etting it off, thus detonating the booster and the main charge in the war head.
Note: The exploder mechanisms are issued to the service with a pick-up coil and thyratron tube installed on their base. These devices are applicable to the influence feature only and will not be described in this publication.
Booster Above the exploder mechanism, when installed in the war head, is a thin sheet-copper container holding a charge of tetryl. This is known as the booster. It is so shaped that it fits inside the pocket at the top of the exploder casing, and rests snugly upon the top of the safety chamber. The detonator, during the arming operation, is moved up out of the safety chamber into a recess in the bottom of the booster; thus, the detonation of the detonator can set off the booster. Before the exploder is fully armed, the detonator holder is within the safety chamber, where it can explode without detonating the booster. It is not until the detonator holder is well extended from its safety chamber that it can detonate the booster; thus any accident which might cause the detonator to explode while the torpedo is still aboard, or close to its firing vessel, cannot cause detonation of the war head, since the torpedo must travel about 350 yards through the water before the detonator can fire the booster. ?? In some other articles the distance for a Mk 13 is 200 yards. The arming distance of a MK-15 is 450 yards http://www.simhq.com/_naval/PDF/naval_009print.pdf (http://www.simhq.com/_naval/PDF/naval_009print.pdf)

[fireftr18]

I think the manual said all torpedoes in game are 400 yards. I don't fire if under 500 yards.

[Sniper297]

I have the download version and the PDF manual mentions arming distance but doesn't specify what it is. Using Silent 3ditor to open torpedoesUS.sim, they all say 220 meters, which is 240.6 yards. Actual distance varies since the range to the target is not what arms the torpedo - it's the distance the torpedo runs. A target coming toward you head on at 30+ knots and a zero gyro angle, if you fire at 300 yards the torpedo might only travel 200 before the collision with the target and go "BOINK!" instead of bang. With a high gyro angle the torpedo travels some distance (300 or 400 yards? dunno) in a straight line before turning, and if the fish is chasing the target from behind you might find that firing from 200 yards range to target it actually travels 1000 yards or more before impact.

All that said, however, the damage radius of the stock MK14 torpedo is 3 to 7 meters so you would have to be within 8 yards of the explosion to get the minimum damage from it. I have, however, been damaged by secondary explosions when close enough - example running under a cruiser when the main magazine explodes, or past a sinking carrier when the boilers blow up.

[TorpX]

As Sniper said, it is not the range to the target, but the distance the torpedo travels that is important.

Generally speaking, the arming distance was determined not only by what was required for the attacking boats safety, but also by what was thought to be necessary for the torpedo to make a normal run. That is, for it to reach set depth, make any turn, and 'settle in' on it's run. I imagine that was the main factor for the Mk. 13. An aerial torpedo is going to fall deep, come up shallow, and possibly make another oscillation or two, before it evens out.

Blast radii in the game are pretty small, so even if the torp exploded as it armed, you shouldn't take any damage. At least not with stock torps and boats.

[scubamatt]

I think that explains it. With the angle of approach, my fish probably traveled 400+ yards to hit the ship forward of the stack. There were lots of secondary explosions after the first one, and I was very close astern diving. I'm guessing I either scraped him as he blew up, or one of the secondaries was close enough to hurt me.

[torpedobait]

As far as I can tell after years of trying, in TMO 2.5 any torpedo that travels less than 500 yards will not explode. 400 would be nice, but have not seen that since I left GWX3. I always make sure that the torpedo will travel at least 500 yards, usually 600 or more.

[aanker]

As far as I can tell after years of trying, in TMO 2.5 any torpedo that travels less than 500 yards will not explode. 400 would be nice, but have not seen that since I left GWX3. I always make sure that the torpedo will travel at least 500 yards, usually 600 or more.
I'm with you, I never shoot under 600 yds.

Thanks for those Aktungbby - required reading indeed : )

Happy Hunting!

[Sniper297]

Haven't looked at TMO for a while, but I just now looked at the stored folder for TMO 1.4 - they left all but the MK14 set for default 220 meters, but the MK 14 was changed to 411 meters (450 yards). Hopefully they changed the MK16 in later versions, since that has a bigger bang than the 14.

[swdw]

Yep, as pointed out, the arming distance depends on the mod you're using.

[ColonelSandersLite]

If you have silent 3ditor, you can check the actual value in Torpedoes_US.sim (amun_Torpedo->amun_Torpedo->pistols->arming_distance). In TMO, arming distance is 411 meters (450 yards). This is run distance, not distance to target.

[Jazzy]

I always get 500metres+ before firing when using any torpedo, any less it won't explode or will bounce off

[Hambone307]

Ok, last night I got a ~480 yd shot on a Nippon Maru. Impact pistol and set at low speed. Two solid hits with detonations. Amazingly it was while shooting at a 90 deg. track running east to west. Figured I would run a quick test for the O.P. while I had her lined up.



Edit: Mods are TMO, RSRD, Improved ship physics, and Improved stock environment. (If I remember correctly)

[chadwicknight]

If you go to the submaine loadout screen and click on a mk14 that should show you information including arming distance.

From memory I think its 450 yards (411m)

This :yeah:

[Aktungbby]

chadwicknight!:Kaleun_Salute:

[Jimbuna]

Welcome :sunny:

[Gunther Hessler]

If you go to the submaine loadout screen and click on a mk14 that should show you information including arming distance.

From memory I think its 450 yards (411m)

Hi, if you go to edit sh4\data\upcdata\upcunitsdata\ammunition.upc fill these fields "info" and "notes" "[Ammunition 9] ID=Mk14Torpedo NameDisplayable= Mark 14 Torpedo Type= AmmoTorpedo Subtype=Mk14TorpUS AmmunitionIntervalOptionCurrent= NULL, NULL, 0 AmmunitionIntervalOptions1= 1931-01-01, 1950-12-31, 0 Volume= 1 PackSize=1 Info= Notes=" like Info=Mk14TorpInfo Notes=Mk14TorpNotes you will see notes on game, on mission PS: bug in stock game

[Aktungbby]

Gunther Hessler!:Kaleun_Salute: 450 yards: An arming impeller was an additional safety device: the firing pin could not move until the torpedo had travelled a preset distance. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/73/Torpedo_Exploder_Mark_6_NH_Drawing.png/340px-Torpedo_Exploder_Mark_6_NH_Drawing.png The Mark 6 exploder was a big problem for the mark 14 torpedo. http://www.wikiwand.com/en/Mark_6_exploder (http://www.wikiwand.com/en/Mark_6_exploder) & http://archive.hnsa.org/doc/torpedo/#pg17 (http://archive.hnsa.org/doc/torpedo/#pg17)

[Gray Lensman]

Since I use the O'Kane constant bearing method, I try for around 600 yards because sometimes when I raise the scope for the final firing observation, the target has slipped "inside" the planned setting to less than anticipated. If set to 500, you might be cutting it really close if it slips inside 450. Since my final scope firing observation is 10 degrees before firing, there just isn't usually enough time to reset the TDC.

[Jimbuna]

Welcome to SubSim Gunther :salute:

[Rockin Robbins]

Since I use the O'Kane constant bearing method, I try for around 600 yards because sometimes when I raise the scope for the final firing observation, the target has slipped "inside" the planned setting to less than anticipated. If set to 500, you might be cutting it really close if it slips inside 450. Since my final scope firing observation is 10 degrees before firing, there just isn't usually enough time to reset the TDC.
And if you're too close you can reset all you want but you're just going to hear a couple of thuds instead of nice satisfying booms. I like to be 500 yards away, but if I'm not confident in my plot I'll back off to 600 too.

Also, if you're unlucky enough that the target zigs toward, usually a great thing, and you're set up for 500 yards, suddenly he's too close for you to shoot and you have to not only set up your TDC but reposition the boat again. He just hit the reset button!

[Webster]

one thing i'll add is if its a warship and the ship is coming right at you, especially a DD, you should fire no less then 600 or you risk a dud because the time it takes to get there the distance is closing and even firing at 600 it may only travel 400 before hitting the ship and 400 is that grey area where they may not arm in time

[Gray Lensman]

And if you're too close you can reset all you want but you're just going to hear a couple of thuds instead of nice satisfying booms. I like to be 500 yards away, but if I'm not confident in my plot I'll back off to 600 too.

Also, if you're unlucky enough that the target zigs toward, usually a great thing, and you're set up for 500 yards, suddenly he's too close for you to shoot and you have to not only set up your TDC but reposition the boat again. He just hit the reset button!

Speaking of zigs... The other day I encountered a single medium speed merchant doing a "corkscrew" zig zag pattern in game, a constant shifting from left to right to left to right (no really discernible short straight legs). What a bear it was to plan an approach for. I finally gave up and ran in to my normal 600 yards as it swung out and fired a rare (for me) 2 torpedo spread, only one of which hit, but even that one surprised me.

I was fascinated that this game would go into that much detail.

[Rockin Robbins]

If they spot you a target will go stark raving crazy!:D:D

[Gray Lensman]

If they spot you a target will go stark raving crazy!:D:D

I'm pretty sure they did not spot me. They were doing this "corkscrew" zigzag from the moment I spotted them at pitch black night greater than 8000 yards bow on. I had just read of a zig zag pattern like this in one of several books I have recently been perusing. Trying to find the relevant passage now.

[Gibus]

Bonjour,

Without contradicting anything that has been written, I would like to point out that the distance between the target is from the periscope but not from the launch tube.
Simply subtract about fifty meters to the measurement for a real distance.