My election experience (rant)

[Platapus]

This past election, I was once again, the precinct chief at my polling location. Precinct chief is just a fancy name for Point of Blame.

This election 99.998% of the voters were polite and posed no problems. They understand the rules and even if they don't agree with them the followed them and therefore were able to get in and out quickly.

But there is always the .002% that just seemed to want to make my day just a bit harder. :nope:

First there was the campaign worker. From every entrance/exit of the polling location there is a 40' exclusion area. This is officially called the Voter Sanctuary. Campaign workers must remain outside this 40' area. It is state law. Every campaign worker is given a sheet of these and other rules by their party and I have copies of the rules with me in the polls.

This worker was waiting inside the 40' zone and when a voter walked up, he left the 40' zone and handed out his propaganda. Then he would go back inside the 40' zone.

I received three complaints from voters. I went outside and politely explained the rules and asked him to remain outside the 40' zone like the rest of the workers. I am always polite in these situations as I feel that it is my primary goal not to escalate any issues.

Well this young man told me that he was not campaigning while inside the 40' zone only outside so I could not tell him where to stand.

Hmmm Well young man, actually, as the precinct chief, I can tell you where you can and can't stand in accordance to State Law.

I went inside and got a copy of the campaign worker rules and showed it to him where it clearly stated where he could and could not be and gave the state law citations. Then the attitude really started. He pointed out that this was not a copy of the law but a paraphrasing of the law and that he knew what the law was. Evidently he thought I was hard of hearing as he was right up in my face.

Yeah, just what I needed. :shifty:

Fortunately, I also know the law (they cover it in the chief's training class) and as part of my documentation I have in both hard and softcopy the actual state laws. I went back into the polling location and retrieved the state law which clearly states that a campaign worker must remain outside of the 40' zone and that any person inside the 40' zone who is not a voter, election officer, or a very limited list of exceptions is guilty of Loitering which is a form of trespassing as the polling location legally, on the day of the election "belongs" to the State Election Commission.

I was really tempted to call the police. But I really did not want to escalate this. But his "in my face attitude" was the last thing I need to put up with. That and I had three voters who officially complained to me, indicated that I needed to take some action.

Fortunately, my Assistant Chief, went outside to talk to this young man. And my Assistant Chief, De-escallated it nicely.

Evidently this young man neglected to bring a chair with him. What he wanted to do is sit on a light pole foundation until voters came in.

My Assistant Chief offered this young man a chair from inside and everything was great.

Why did this young man not tell me this at the first. He could have asked me if he could sit on the pole foundation. I would have said no, but would have offered him a chair. We are not adversaries! I had a good Assistant Chief.

Later that day, we had what we call a "Low Information Voter".

This voter checked in and was issued a ballot. He looked at the ballot and complained that there were no political party affiliations for most of the candidates. I explained that it is Virginia State Law that below a certain level, candidates are only identified by their names and do not have any affiliations associated with them. This has been the state law since before I became an election officer and that was over 10 years ago.

He starts disrupting the line loudly proclaiming that this was BS. Well it may or may not BS, but this is not the time to complain about it as I can't violate state law.

When I tried to explain this to this voter, at least he had the decency to state that he did not think I was BSing him, but that the law was BS.

"How can I vote if I don't know the party?!?!?!"

This triggered what has happened to me on several elections. I had a schizophrenic event. My consciousness split into two. It is a fear of mine that one of the days, I will get the two of me mixed up.

INNER PLATAPUS: Well maybe you should have done the slightest amount of research and actually learned the names of your party's candidates. That would have spared you this embarrassment and my annoyance. You should go home. If you are too stupid/lazy to even know the name of the candidate you want to vote for, you really should not vote.

OUTER PLATAPUS: I am sorry Sir, but the state law dictates the information on the ballot and we are not allowed to advise the voters in any way on how they should vote.

"Well can I go back outside and get a sample ballot?"

"No, I am sorry, Sir, once you check in and receive a ballot, if you leave the polling location, the state law requires me to void your ballot"

"That's BS! That's a stupid law"

I don't make the laws, and perhaps I don't even agree with the laws. But as an Officer of Elections, it is my duty to carry out the laws.

"Can I yell out the door and have one of the workers bring me a sample ballot" (all the time still disrupting the line behind him)

INNER PLATAPUS: Oh, this is going to be good. :D

OUTER PLATAPUS: "No Sir, they are not allowed inside the 40' Zone

INNER PLATAPUS: He he, yes, you can't leave the polling location and the campaign worker can't get withing 40' of the door. Perhaps it would have been better to pull your head out of your butt and come to the polls prepared???

"Well, what am I gonna do??"

INNER PLATAPUS: (sigh) Lets help out this voter. What is the goal? The goal is to get people to vote

OUTER PLATAPUS: "Well, Sir, there is a trash can over there and there may be a sample ballot in there that you can use"

INNER PLATAPUS: Oh yes, Low Information Voter digging through a trash can because he does not even know the name of the people he is voting for. This is working out swell!!! :D

Well, he found a crumpled up sample ballot for his party and with its help was able to actually fill out a ballot.

What was amusing was that one of my Election Officers later told me that there was this lady who was watching what this man did and she also went over to the same trash can and rummaged though it looking for a sample ballot.

Yikes! I understand that some people like to vote straight ticket. That's their right as a citizen. But to be such a slave to a party that you don't even attempt to learn a candidate's name, I just don't understand.

I honestly feel that what the citizens really want is a ballot with no names on it but just Rs and Ds... and better yet, an ability to select "all R" or "all D" with one mark. That would make the voters happy.

Yikes!

I just keep thinking of the 99.998% of the other voters.....

[ikalugin]

Inevitable friction of democratic process.

[Jimbuna]

You Sir, must have the patience of Job. I've been to a few similar scenarios over the years and whilst you're quite correct in your assessment and desire of de-escalation I can honestly say the temptation to simply 'lock em up' usually won after a couple of attempts at pacification.

[AVGWarhawk]

I understand that some people like to vote straight ticket.

And that is what got us where we are. A rudderless ship on a voyage to nowhere.

[Platapus]

You Sir, must have the patience of Job. I've been to a few similar scenarios over the years and whilst you're quite correct in your assessment and desire of de-escalation I can honestly say the temptation to simply 'lock em up' usually won after a couple of attempts at pacification.


Armed Election Officers may not be the best solution... but we might give it a try? once? Just once???

[Oberon]

http://izquotes.com/quotes-pictures/quote-democracy-cannot-succeed-unless-those-who-express-their-choice-are-prepared-to-choose-wisely-the-franklin-d-roosevelt-157938.jpg

[vienna]

+1 on the above...

A number of years ago, I went to the local polling place and got there just a few minutes after they opened. Usually, the polling place is staffed by a few paid county poll workers and a few other volunteers, usually senior citizens looking to occupy their day and do some thing to support the process. This time, however, the polling place was being supervised by a young fellow, in his thirties. The poll was in chaos and the staff was cowering. From what I could gather, the supervisor was either very, very ill-prepared or he was in the middle of a mini-psychotic break. He was ranting and raving, loudly declaring the poll was in a mess, not of his doing, and nobody would be allowed to vote until he went back to the county election headquarters to get further instructions (a trip that would take about an hour each way). As I watched him meltdown, I knew nothing good was going to come of staying there, so I quietly asked one of the other poll staffers, a rather fear-filled little old lady if she had the phone number for the county election headquarters. She passed me a paper with the info as if she were smuggling out state secrets, all the while keeping an eye on the manic supervisor. I went outside, called the election office, and told them about the situation. They said they had received another call, but, since the supervisor was not answering his phone, they were dispatching someone to remedy the problem. I was instructed, if I wished, to go to another poll outside of my precinct, explain the situation to the people there, and ask to vote on a provisional ballot at their poll, which is what I wound up doing. I never saw the manic supervisor again when I voted in subsequent elections, so I guess his day as a poll supervisor did not end well...

[Platapus]

It is a very stressful position. I have never seen one crash like what you wrote, but I can also imagine that happening.

I am not kidding when I wrote that the position is actually Point of Blame. So much is out of my control but still under my responsibility.

I have a good team but I have worked with less than good teams and the stress can become overwhelming.

I am sorry you had to experience that. It sounds like the governing body did not do such a good job in training the chief.

[Wolferz]

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb295/Wolferz_2007/32644912_1.jpg

[Platapus]

I don't care who people vote for. I vote my way, you vote your way. But all I ask is that people truly think about their vote.

This was not the first, nor will it be the last, election where I have had voters complain that the ballot does not spoon feed them the political parties. :nope:

Perhaps what the public really wants is proxy voting. You just send in your proxy to the local chapter of your political party and let them make the decision for you.

Sigh

[STEED]

But all I ask is that people truly think about their vote.



Good statement, but here in the UK there are areas where you could put a pig up for a candidate in rock solid seats with the party's rosette on and people will vote for the pig.

http://www.ciwm-journal.co.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/2015-election-rosettes-472x314.png

[Jimbuna]

Good statement, but here in the UK there are areas where you could put a pig up for a candidate in rock solid seats with the party's rosette on and people will vote for the pig.

http://www.ciwm-journal.co.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/2015-election-rosettes-472x314.png

No longer the case in Scotland but still is up North :yep:

[STEED]

No longer the case in Scotland but still is up North :yep:

Took the Scots years to exchange one pig for another maybe. :hmm2:

[vienna]

A long while back, current California Governor Jerry Brown espoused the idea voters should have the choice of "None of the above" in primary nominating elections and was actually able to get the option on the ballot for a single election. I recall, the day after the election, the tally showed "None of the above" had the most votes; the newspaper headlines read "Jerry Brown's Nobody Beats Everybody"...


@Platpus:

The incident i described was really very much of a one-off. I have not had any other bad experiences, other than the run-of-the-mill glitches that occur during any election process. I don't think the supervisor in the incident was poorly trained; I got the impression he, himself, had most likely been out the night before and was struggling through the morning after, but, rather than owning up to his failing, he was trying to lay blame on everyone else. As I said he was a bit young and maybe not the best suited to the task...

I have gotten some amusement from some of the senior citizen volunteers over the many years of voting. The voting process here involves going down to the poll, presenting a sample ballot received in the mail with your voting ID printed on it to a trio of poll workers seated at a table. The first takes your ID info and enters it on sort of log sheet, calling out your name and address to the second worker, while you sing the log sheet; the second worker opens up a large book which is a master list of all the registered voters in the precinct, finds your name and address, verifies the info, then crosses your name out; the third worker then gives you your ballot, and off you go to the booth to vote. One election, the second worker at the table was a rather elderly and nice lady. The first worker called out my name, so the lady opened the book to the first page and carefully turned each page, getting to about the page where my name should have been, and then she stopped, looked at the first worker and asked "What was the name, again?". The first worker repeated my name and the lady closed the book, opened it to the first page, and, again, carefully and slowly, turned each page, again getting to near my page and, again stopping to ask for the name. Finally, on the fourth time, she managed to get to the page, remember my name, and all went well afterward. When this happened, I was in my late 20s and was patient with her because I had been taught to make allowances for the elderly since one day I would be the elderly person who would need a bit more time or effort to what is effortless to youth. Now that I am nearing the point in my life where the simple becomes difficult, I have a great appreciation for the effort of that elderly election worker...


<O>

[Platapus]

A long while back, current California Governor Jerry Brown espoused the idea voters should have the choice of "None of the above" in primary nominating elections and was actually able to get the option on the ballot for a single election. I recall, the day after the election, the tally showed "None of the above" had the most votes; the newspaper headlines read "Jerry Brown's Nobody Beats Everybody"...


<O>

What you are referring to is called a "null vote" i.e. a vote cast but not for any candidate. Null voting is a valid vote and can be important.

The political parties pay attention to the number of Null Votes. The number of ballots cast and the totals of the votes are public information and the political parties pull these numbers after the election. Everyone also has access to the total number of registered voters. These pieces of information can give political parties some significant information.

Someone who does not vote is simply indicating that they don't care about the election

Someone casting a Null vote is indicating that they do care but don't like any of the candidates.

There is a big difference between the two. The political parties are very interested in getting the second type of citizen on their side.

The person who does not care about the election will probably continue not to care regardless of what the parties do. They are going to spend a little time/money getting the word out, but most of their attention is going to be on the second -- a person who cares enough about the election to come to the polls but does not vote for any candidate.

Lets look at some examples from a primary

Example 1.

5000 registered voters in precinct A

Candidate A - 1200 votes
Candidate B - 1100 Votes

46% voter turnout close race. Most people don't care either way

Example 2

5000 registered voters in precinct A

Candidate A - 1200 votes
Candidate B - 1100 Votes
Null/under vote - 1500

76% voter turnout and the majority did not want either candidate

This is important information to the political parties.

The first example illustrates voter apathy
The second example illustrates candidate apathy

This is why it bothers me when people tell me that they don't vote because they don't like either candidate or, worse, their vote won't matter.

If you don't like the candidates, let the parties know via the Null vote. It is a powerful tool.

In the last election, we had write in votes for this one office. The majority of the write in votes were for some variation of "none of the above". This is another way of casting a null vote.

Null votes won't affect the election they are cast in. With few exceptions, elections in the US are based on a plurality of votes and not a majority of votes.

Not voting means you don't care
Null voting means that you do care

Political parties know this.

[Platapus]

I have gotten some amusement from some of the senior citizen volunteers over the many years of voting. The voting process here involves going down to the poll, presenting a sample ballot received in the mail with your voting ID printed on it to a trio of poll workers seated at a table. The first takes your ID info and enters it on sort of log sheet, calling out your name and address to the second worker, while you sing the log sheet; the second worker opens up a large book which is a master list of all the registered voters in the precinct, finds your name and address, verifies the info, then crosses your name out; the third worker then gives you your ballot, and off you go to the booth to vote. One election, the second worker at the table was a rather elderly and nice lady. The first worker called out my name, so the lady opened the book to the first page and carefully turned each page, getting to about the page where my name should have been, and then she stopped, looked at the first worker and asked "What was the name, again?". The first worker repeated my name and the lady closed the book, opened it to the first page, and, again, carefully and slowly, turned each page, again getting to near my page and, again stopping to ask for the name. Finally, on the fourth time, she managed to get to the page, remember my name, and all went well afterward. When this happened, I was in my late 20s and was patient with her because I had been taught to make allowances for the elderly since one day I would be the elderly person who would need a bit more time or effort to what is effortless to youth. Now that I am nearing the point in my life where the simple becomes difficult, I have a great appreciation for the effort of that elderly election worker...



Ugh. I remember those days. It really sucked working the polls. We are lucky, we have our poll books on laptop computers and it makes the book keeping a lot easier.

Does your state still do it this way? If so, I hope that one day soon they will change and get laptops. It makes the process faster (voters like that), easier (election officers like that) and less error prone (SBE likes that).

<O>[/QUOTE]

[vienna]

What you are referring to is called a "null vote" i.e. a vote cast but not for any candidate. Null voting is a valid vote and can be important. ...

Here in California, the vast majority of voters don't understand the concept of a null vote. This may stem from voting policies in the distant past voiding an entire ballot if any one item on the ballot didn't get voted upon. The practice was intended to encourage (enforce) voters to vote on every item on the ballot, but the practice was eliminated some time back, although I can't recall whether it was stopped by court action or legislative action. The "None of the Above" Jerry Brown espoused was the only time it ever appeared on the ballot, AFAIK, and hasn't been raised seriously since. The belief at the time was both parties were soundly and publicly embarrassed neither could muster enough voter support to get their candidate/issue passed. For the voters, it was a chance to visibly express their dissatisfaction with the parties. The Null Vote may be there, but it becomes the "dirty little secret" the parties don't want voters to know about lest they male greater use of the ability. What I would have found interesring would have been if one of the parties' candidate/issue had come in first, follwoed by "None of the Above", and the other party in third. I wonder what the reaction of the third place party would have been to such a public shunning? ...

Ugh. I remember those days. It really sucked working the polls. We are lucky, we have our poll books on laptop computers and it makes the book keeping a lot easier. ..

Does your state still do it this way? If so, I hope that one day soon they will change and get laptops. It makes the process faster (voters like that), easier (election officers like that) and less error prone (SBE likes that).

<O>[/QUOTE]

California has a multitude of poll practices and voting methods since voting administration is overseen on a county level and, thus, is open to the influence of county budgets, voter preferences, political party finagling, and other factors. Here, in Los Angeles, we still have the paper log books; I don't know about the res of the state. The County did try electronic voting around the 2004 election, but it seemed everyone, voters, political parties, political commentators, and anyone else involved were quite vocal in nixing the idea so, since then, we have stuck with mid-20th century methods. Shame, really; the electronic system was very easy to use and was very transparent...


<O>

[August]

the electronic system was very easy to use and was very transparent...

A lot easier to game as well.

1 paper ballot vote = 1 hard copy of that vote to be reviewed/recounted if necessary. 1 electronic vote = No hard evidence no hard proof how the votes were actually cast.

[Platapus]

A lot easier to game as well.

1 paper ballot vote = 1 hard copy of that vote to be reviewed/recounted if necessary. 1 electronic vote = No hard evidence no hard proof how the votes were actually cast.


I agree, what I was referring to was the electronic poll books where we check in voters.

I was very happy when Virginia got rid of the electronic ballot, just for the very reasons you mentioned.

[vienna]

I agree, what I was referring to was the electronic poll books where we check in voters.

I was very happy when Virginia got rid of the electronic ballot, just for the very reasons you mentioned.

I knew you were referring to the poll books and I do wish we had them electronically here in LA. I threw in the electronic balloting because I knew relatively few places have had the chance to try the systems out. I agree there is a high possibility of "gaming" electronic systems. Here, the system used did produce a hard copy printout of the ballots as cast and, in addition, the voter was presented with a final overview of the ballot just cast before it was finalized. The County stopped using the system due to some of the concerns about "gaming", but there was an additional concern about future use when reports leaked out about the votes in the being tabulated offshore, and IIRC, the company running the system was centered in italy...

To be honest, and realistic, about any current voting system other than wholly electronic, the possibility of "gaming" exists for any high volume voting system since all of those types of systems, at some point or another, depend on computer systems for the speedy and efficient tabulation of votes and generation of results. Those systems are also open to "gaming" and the possibility is really much overlooked. In order to "properly" "game" an election, you would only need to tamper with the computer system enough to switch enough votes to achieve a win margin large enough not to provoke a recount, but not large enough to raise suspicions...


<O>

[August]

That's fine edge to walk especially given our polarized times, especially since the the Freedom of Information act lets those votes be recounted by anyone.

[swamprat69er]

Good statement, but here in the UK there are areas where you could put a pig up for a candidate in rock solid seats with the party's rosette on and people will vote for the pig.

Here in Canada too, and they did....In droves.

[Rockin Robbins]

Good statement, but here in the UK there are areas where you could put a pig up for a candidate in rock solid seats with the party's rosette on and people will vote for the pig.

http://www.ciwm-journal.co.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/2015-election-rosettes-472x314.png
And the terrible thing is that oftentimes the pig is the best choice. At least he can do no harm, and if he does, you can eat him.

[Aktungbby]

oftentimes the pig is the best choice. At least he can do no harm, and if he does, you can eat him. Nuthin good goes outta style: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/06/pets-in-politics-animals-who-ran-for-office_n_1859256.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/06/pets-in-politics-animals-who-ran-for-office_n_1859256.html) http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/247644/slide_247644_1450327_free.jpg1968: PIGASUS for PRESIDENT:http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/247644/slide_247644_1450328_free.jpgtoo bad I was too young to vote in them/thar days!:O:

[Jimbuna]

Here in Canada too, and they did....In droves.

Billy Connolly

"Don't vote, it just encourages them."

[vienna]

As a point of clarification, the electronic voting system I used in the 2004 election was not used universally throughout the county and was only available in a few, selected polls. Additionally, the use of the electronic poll was entirely voluntary; if a voter wanted to use the conventional, paper ballot, that was their choice. The main reason I used the electronic system was curiosity over the process coupled with the fact, at the time, I was recuperating from major surgery and the polling place was permitting early voting; I had a fear, if my condition should relapse, I would not have the opportunity to vote on the actual election day...


<O>

[Platapus]

In order to "properly" "game" an election, you would only need to tamper with the computer system enough to switch enough votes to achieve a win margin large enough not to provoke a recount, but not large enough to raise suspicions...


<O>

That would be a lot harder to do than some may think.

Each paper ballot when scanned, at least in our machines, is time stamped. So in order to monkey withe tallies, it would be necessary to change the recording of the vote while the voting is in progress, before you know what the real vote is. This might work if the votes were tallied all at once.

Also, access to the voting machines would be a problem. They are kept locked up and specific internal parts are sealed. If one wished to monkey with the code, it would have to be done at the factory and that is before the code is inspected upon delivery.

Even assuming you could do this for one machine, the likely hood of any one machine's results having that strong of an effect on an election is slim. So in order to really have a chance of influencing an election, one would have to monkey with multiple machines.. many machines and that is for a State election. Thousands of machines would have to be altered to affect a national election and the chances of that happening are pretty slim.

It would be much more effective to spend the money on smear campaign tactics..... which is what the political parties do anyway. :D

There are double checks and safeguards that even I am unaware of concerning the machine in my precinct.

[vienna]

The true vulnerability is with the final tabulating computers; if they are connected to the Net for the purposes of data transmission, say, in a geographically large state like CA, they could be hackable; if the tabulators are connected in any way to an internal network which is itself connected to the Net, they could be hackable. Someone could alter the logarithms enough to affect the tally just enough to swing a vote without being noticeable and the deviations(s) would not be noticeable until a manual recount or audit is called for by some candidate or party. Remember the questionable 2000 election results in Florida; the exit polls in some of the heavily-DEM precincts showed a large majority of votes going to Gore, yet when the tally was released, the margin was either significantly smaller or Bush ended up beating Gore in the final tally. In some areas in Florida where there were heavily-DEM and heavily-Jewish voter populations anomalies such as uber-conservative Pat Buchanan score heavily where, prior to the election, he was even a blip on the radar. (I recall a neighbor of mine, whose father lived in Fl at the time, telling me his father was quite upset saying "What if I actually wound up voting for that Nazi Buchanan!"). Such "problems" with the numbers is what initiated the whole FL recount mess. There is still no definitive resolution to the whole matter, and there never will. But, the point is, unless you draw attention to tampering by making too evident, it is possible to finesse a tally to accomplish whatever is the goal for doing so. There may be all manner of safeguards for the actual pare ballots, but all bets are off once the ballots are scanned and the data disappears into the computer systems where any number of manipulations can take place, and, again, no one would really know unless the manipulation is more than casually obvious. It only takes something very simple to game even the most complex systems and safeguards. I once worked in a major national bank's data processing center from 1970-1973 and would often take a short cut in the building through the International Wire Transfer department. The first time I went through, the co-worker who was showing me the shortcut pointed out the wire transfer terminals and I remember commenting to him about the lack of security on the terminals even though we were in, by the standards of the time, a very, very secure building. About a month after I quit the bank, I was reading the paper and came across an article about an employee of the data center who had been arrested for wire fraud, among other charges. What he had done was to finesse the wire transfer system: due to the differences in foreign exchange rates, a lot of the transactions resulted in fractions of a cent being calculated. What the employee did was to have those fractions automatically deposited in a bank account in Europe. Since the bank was national and international bank, the number of transactions and fractions of cents were in the thousands and added up really quickly; anyone looking at the logs would just see what appeared to be a set of 'normal' wire transactions. The employee would have gone on undetected except he decided to cash in some of his ill-gotten gain; while on vacation in Europe, he withdraw a sizable amount of cash from the target account. Since going through customs in the USA with such a large amount of cash would raise red flags, he bought loose diamonds and tried to smuggle them in to the US. Unfortunately for him, he was a better embezzler than he was a smuggler; once caught, he confessed the crime and detailed how he had pulled off the theft to a very startled bank management. If had not tried to smuggle the diamonds, who knows how long his crime would have gone undetected. And, remember, the crime was committed at at time when computer systems were still being programmed by keypunch card and running on room-sized TOS mainframes. Given the great leaps in technology today, it is not too far-fetched to entertain the possibility the same sort of "finessing" might be done to an election system even if it were not fully electronic...


<O>

[Platapus]

Nuthin good goes outta style: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/06/pets-in-politics-animals-who-ran-for-office_n_1859256.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/06/pets-in-politics-animals-who-ran-for-office_n_1859256.html) 1968: PIGASUS for PRESIDENT:http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/247644/slide_247644_1450328_free.jpgtoo bad I was too young to vote in them/thar days!:O:

Put some lipstick on it and it might have a chance

[Oberon]

Cameron would sign a treaty with it...

[August]

What he had done was to finesse the wire transfer system: due to the differences in foreign exchange rates, a lot of the transactions resulted in fractions of a cent being calculated. What the employee did was to have those fractions automatically deposited in a bank account in Europe.

Did he watch the movie Office Space?

[vienna]

Did he watch the movie Office Space?

Rather Office Space was probably a bit of a rip on this and other similar scenarios. Others have manipulated computer systems since the incident I described, which occurred in 1973, some 42 years ago. The difference now is access to systems is relatively easier now than back then, given the many 'entries' provided by the Net. Way back then, computer systems were massive, filling huge rooms in controlled environments with very little physical access other than 'dumb' terminals. Programming was done with punch cards, punched paper tapes, or, if you were one of the lab coated elite called programmers, via the mainframe consoles (this was usually only used for minor tweaks and adjustments). When I first started out, I actually used a keypunch machine (Google it, kids) to create programs, basically one punch card per line of code using languages like RPG, COBOL, FORTRAN, and other relatively "dead" languages. Looking back, you kind have to be impressed with guys like the one at my former employer who pulled off some rather impressive hacks in rather primitive environments...


<O>

[August]

Rather Office Space was probably a bit of a rip on this and other similar scenarios. Others have manipulated computer systems since the incident I described, which occurred in 1973, some 42 years ago. The difference now is access to systems is relatively easier now than back then, given the many 'entries' provided by the Net. Way back then, computer systems were massive, filling huge rooms in controlled environments with very little physical access other than 'dumb' terminals. Programming was done with punch cards, punched paper tapes, or, if you were one of the lab coated elite called programmers, via the mainframe consoles (this was usually only used for minor tweaks and adjustments). When I first started out, I actually used a keypunch machine (Google it, kids) to create programs, basically one punch card per line of code using languages like RPG, COBOL, FORTRAN, and other relatively "dead" languages. Looking back, you kind have to be impressed with guys like the one at my former employer who pulled off some rather impressive hacks in rather primitive environments...


<O>

Yeah I know all about punch card machines.

[GT182]

Good statement, but here in the UK there are areas where you could put a pig up for a candidate in rock solid seats with the party's rosette on and people will vote for the pig.

Don't feel too bad. Steed. No different there as it is here. They vote for the pig here in the States most all the time. ;)

[Aktungbby]

Don't feel too bad. Steed. No different there as it is here. They vote for the pig here in the States most all the time. ;)
Could be why I find politics boaring; the electorate reaps what it sows!???http://www.picgifs.com/smileys/smileys-and-emoticons/pig/smileys-pig-491587.gif They don't call it porkbarrel politics fer nuthin'!:damn:

[ikalugin]

Hmm, I know people who still use Fortran, even though there is only C and Ritchie it's prophet.

(apparently Fortran and Algol still have best physics and math libraries out there, but Algol is dead)

[vienna]

Hmm, I know people who still use Fortran, even though there is only C and Ritchie it's prophet.

(apparently Fortran and Algol still have best physics and math libraries out there, but Algol is dead)

Yep, Fortran still kicks around in the scientific communities; scientific academics are often more prone to stick with what they know than their experimental brethren...

During the Y2K scares, some of the older programmers found lucrative 'second lives' because of the surprising number of systems running apps coded in 'lost languages'. Major corporations, financial institutions, government, and educational institutions were (and probably still are) running those apps due to the high cost and disruption of updating their apps. A lady I worked with at the time of Y2K told me her husband, an employee and programmer of a city owned water and power utility, had been given the option of early retirement or a likely layoff. He reluctantly opted for the early retirement. A few months after retiring he was approached by the utility, hat in hand, to come back because they suddenly realized their COBOL and RPG apps need some major fixes to protect against Y2K; their newer, younger programmers either didn't know the languages or lacked the need skill levels to complete the task. The fellow did go back to work: as a consultant, at a very high rate, with some very serious perks. Padded his retirement nest egg very nicely above and beyond what the utility had given him...


<O>

[STEED]

Don't feel too bad. Steed. No different there as it is here. They vote for the pig here in the States most all the time. ;)

So we are.:/\\!!

Could be why I find politics boaring; the electorate reaps what it sows!???http://www.picgifs.com/smileys/smileys-and-emoticons/pig/smileys-pig-491587.gif They don't call it porkbarrel politics fer nuthin'!:damn:


No truer words were said. :yep: