First war patrol in LSH2015 - wow!

[K-61]

I started my first career in LSH 2015 [after doing the naval academy] pre-war at the Erpro flotilla. I enabled malfunctions and sabotage [though I wonder if the game models sabotage in German bases] and just about every realism setting I could enhance. Did my training patrol in IIA 'duck' and was surprised by the variety of new ships in the game. On my way to the training area where I had to sink the two target ships, I saw several Soviet military vessels at sea!

On my return, I transferred to 2nd Flotilla and took a duck to war. My patrol grid was off the northwest coast of the U.K. but I wondered if I was every going to get there. I played around with the speeds and navigator reports until I got a speed that would allow me enough fuel to traverse out and in plus allow me some cruise time in my patrol zone.

It didn't take long until the weather soured, slowing down my boat. Increasing the telegraph I noticed also led to worse fuel economy, so I reluctantly throttled back to five knots. On the way out I received a convoy report; yes, it is fun hunting for a convoy with a duck in bad weather. I made several sound checks by diving and eventually worked my way to within sight of a small convoy. Reluctantly, I had to let the convoy go as its speed was just high enough that I would be burning so much fuel trying to get into place, and that I would not be able to do it before daylight. The speed difference caused by the sea state decided me that the risk to reward was not worth it, so I veered off to get out of sight before daylight and returned to my outward course.

Off the north coast of the U.K. near the Orkneys, I encountered several single vessels and was able to maneuver into attack position. Over three attacks I expended all five torpedoes. One missed just to aft, the other four were accurate, but to my chagrin sailed way under the vessels without detonating. I set impact triggers on all of them, due to the sea state and set them to run about two to four metres, due to sea state and vessel draft. Arrrgghhh! One miss and four deep runners.

I am assuming this was due either to "malfunctions and sabotage" and/or the "torpedo scandal" modeled into the game, as well as the diminished accuracy of the weapons officer [I am using auto targeting]. On the one hand, I am disappointed that I had to report to Onkel Karl that I had wasted five valuable eels and a load of diesel to come back skunked. On the other hand, I am very much enjoying the uncertainty factor and it feels more historical to me. I am not a fan of an arcade experience, even when using auto-target. I have always imposed on myself my own "reality rules" so as to make my careers conform more to historical score levels. Without these, I could easily have "100K" patrols, but it never felt realistic. With these new settings, I can still use the Weapons Officer but still not feel as if I am cheating. I've tried in the past do do manual, but the math makes my head hurt. I really suck at estimating angles and speeds. I figure that if I use realism rules and procedures, I can "pretend" that I am the one giving the WO the inputs.

Anyhow, just wanted to say that I am very much enjoying being back at sea and my hats off to all of you modders who generously share your work with the community. :salute:

[K-61]

Oh, one question. I think I know the answer is "yes" but it would be nice to have it confirmed.

I gather from what I have read that if I wish to upgrade to a newer boat, I first have to transfer to Erpro to get it? I know in the old game you simply had to buy it with renown points. Am I correct in assuming that no longer works, and that if you wish to get a new boat you first have to transfer to Erpro? What about upgrades, like new guns and turrets, etc.?

[K-61]

Just finished my second war patrol. Better luck this time, but it didn't seem so at first. My first three torpedoes did the deep dive again. I am sure this is related to stormy sea states, at least in part.

After the weather calmed down to 6 or 7 winds, I found a small unescorted convoy in the North Sea. I lined up the fattest ship [C2] and let it have an electic eel, followed by a steam torp. Both torpedoes hit and detonated, but after hours of waiting, the ship did not sink.

I even tried [for fun and experimental purposes, testing the new game, not for reality's sake] to approach and rake the ship with my 20mm AA gun. I raked over the gun positions and knocked out two of the three searchlights. Some secondary explosions on deck occurred, but then I began to take fire from the guns. I thought I had suppressed several of them, but when I began to take damage I crash dived away, repaired damage and set sail for home.

Before leaving, I marked the ship's position and came back the next day, carefully approaching in the dark. It still had not sunk, just sat there listing to port. I returned to base; never did get a "ship sunk" message and my logbook showed no victory.

Well, at least I know I can get my fish to explode on target.

[THEBERBSTER]

Hi K-61

You could have started with a VIIB.
Equipment upgrades are all date related.
U-boat upgrades you will be informed by radio when different types are available.
When you dock you need to transfer i.e. in your case VIIA to VIIB.
You then go on a test mission as you did with your VIIA.
The problem with your VIIA is you will still be sent to the same places as if you had a VIIB and you will struggle with fuel.
You will also notice that the weather changes quite frequently.
You will also notice the frequent high wind speed that makes the guns un-operable.
The one thing I do not quite understand is the Flak Gun in the winter garden I would have thought it would be usable at more moderate wind speeds.
You will also be informed by radio of bases you can end your patrol in.
These are mainly on the French coast and Bergen in Norway.
I have a type IXB and it is really awesome. (21 torpedoes)
Completed 9 patrols including 2 test missions (VIIB Stralsund - IXB Kaseburg)
Really enjoying this game which comes with a big choice of merchants.

Peter

[K-61]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I start each game using SH3 Commander. When I choose a different flotilla than Erpro, to try getting a VIIB, SH3 Cmdr does not show any other boats being available.

Also, I think you misread my post, I did my first patrols with a IIA [2A] not a VIIB [7B.] I know the Roman numeral system can confuse the eye.

I was offered command of a newer boat at the end of my second war patrol, but I was farting around in my saved game list and accidentally wiped out a vital save file and lost my captain. It has been years since I did something like that, but I am relearning to be careful.

I am now putting out to sea again with a new Kaleun in 1939 after having done my first Erpro training run. This time I did not sink the two target ships, as the tonnage for them keeps showing up in my war career as tonnage sunk. I merely went out to my my training zone for 24 hours and RTB'd.

[THEBERBSTER]

Hi K-61

Sorry, I meant IIA.

I also made a big error and wiped out 6 patrols and had to start a new career.
Will not do that again.
With all the game saves building up in the menu, is it important or not to delete old ones?
I assume it would have to be done from the V15 folder in documents.

Yes, you always start with SH3 Commander.

What a difference it is having a base on the French coast and not having to use Wilhelmshaven each time.
The game reminds you however before its final load that your home German base is still Wilhelmshaven.

I wish the recognition manual was split in to categories like SH5.
It takes such a long time to find each target and even if you use the Officer for the solution you still need to know the ships draft.
If you have to pause the game each time to find the ship the pause band covers part of the ship type.

I have sunk 44 different ship types so far I now keep on a spreadsheet showing tonnage and draft for easy reference.
I sank my first warship HMS CL Dido 5600 tons on the last patrol that was in a large convoy by mistake when it took a torpedo that was meant for a merchant.
Biggest targets to date.
2 x T3 Tankers (e) 18000 tons
2 x Passenger Liners 21,000 tons.
I use the G7e in the day and G7a at night.
The slower speed gives you a little extra time to get deep.
And you need it as it so painfully slow getting the boat down quietly without drawing attention to your position.

You were talking about equipment upgrades.
With the VIIB this will most likely be the hydrophone.
On patrol 8 IXB I was able to upgrade my winter garden flak gun to a twin.
I have the larger 3.7cm on the deck.
To date with the type IXB I have not used them.
I always start with the Flak gun/s manned when coming into and out of port as well as Shift+F for the flag.
In Wilhemshaven VIIB I was just leaving the dock at the start of a new patrol and of course there is no bunker and immediately got caught up in an air raid.

With my type VIIB my flak gunner was killed on patrol 5 after taking out 3 Fairy Swordfish with his pop gun.
One came down and nearly took the back of the boat off, a real near miss that one and I was able to repair the damage.
That was a wake up call and now I give aircraft a little more respect rather than trying to take them on.

When you end your patrol and give out your promotions and medals you should be able use the telephone on the desk and transfer to Eprobungstelle.
At this point you need to exit the game.
When the game loads next time you should then see any boat upgrades available.

Each time you upgrade your boat you need to do a test mission give out promotions etc, as you take your existing crew with you and then transfer again as before.

Testing mission with the type IXB in Kaseburg.
What a nightmare that place is to get out of.
So many channel buoys etc had to take the boat out manually as the way point positions did not make sense.

Patrol 8 ended in Lorient, not easy navigating in that one to find the bunker.
Patrol 9 ended in Brest, easier to navigate in and much bigger bunker complex.
Waiting to start patrol 10 tonight from Brest, and now have quite an experienced crew with over 13000 points.
Will probably need that experience if I get sent to the English south coast.

The only crew difference between the VIIB and IXB is 2 additional sailors I presume for the Flak slots.
I have a dedicated Flak Crew of 3 with 2 qualified.
I only have 1 dedicated Deck Gunner who is qualified and I use 2 from the bridge crew which is useful as these are easy to move around.

I think I may do a spread sheet and keep a record of what the most prolific patrol grid is.

Peter

[K-61]

Peter, nice to hear from you as always.

I figured out how to get to sea at the start of war in a VIIB. I am now outward bound, having just traversed the canal to use the shortcut to the North Sea, where my patrol zone is just off Hartlepool. Now that was a new experience. I recall having spotted something about sluice gates. First time I ran right into one and damaged the boat. It took some observation time to realize that they were an actual in-game barrier and thus a nav hazard, but that they also cycled open and closed for passage, if you just wait for them. How clever!

I did not change anything on the boat for the first patrol. I have heard there is a notorious bug from stock that is still around, whereby the safest thing to do on a career first patrol is not change anything on the boat: crew, weapons, torpedo layout, etc. I cannot ever recall personally experiencing this bug, as I used to load a few electrics and recruit a few extra crewmen, but just to be safe, last night I took my new VIIB out with no changes at all.

It took me forever and a day to traverse the canal as the watch crew kept calling out the sighting of every plane, ship and schnitzel cart in sight and thus knocking my TC back to 1 every time. I kept hitting the TC key like I was sending out the distress signal from RMS Titanic! All of this while I was watching an episode of "Lark Rise to Candleford" on our bedroom TV set. I told my wife I wasn't planning on sailing during our nightly pre-bed routine of watching an English show, just needed to get out of the canal and then save/exit the game.

I know there is a mod wherein it knocks out the non-stop "ship sighted" blathering from the crew, but is it compatible with LSH2015? If so, I would like to give it a try after this current patrol.

And try as I might, I cannot find a user's mod for LSH 2015. I know there is a mini-manual from 2010, an installation instruction manual, etc. but I cannot find a manual that is for the day to day playing of the mod. I've checked in the "manuals" folder that came with the mod download. Am I myopic or is there no such thing?

Sorry if I seem to be asking questions with apparent answers and thus testing your patience, gang.

I did read a few threads and wrote out a Word file with as much as I could find about new keyboard commands and shortcuts and printed it off so as to have it to hand during gameplay.

[THEBERBSTER]

Hi K-61

Another enjoyable and newsy post.
Oh, those sluice gates.
Yes, I have had the misfortune to have the slight mishap.
Way points I do not use any more in the harbor.

I would suggest using the single sluice gate on the left as you leave the dock rather than the two in front of you.
On the map it looks like there are two of them but there is only one to the right on the map.
The alignment is better both going out and coming back in.
When returning and using the sluice gate is now an option as you can dock before entering the sluice.

The officer shouting out the bearing is a nuisance, but it should allow you to have a default TC of 8.
Each time the bearing turns white you can ramp up the TC again until it changes colour again, and then it should return to 8.

I really like the ambiance of this game, as it is unlike any of the other SH versions.
Taking the boat out in real time maybe taking 20 minutes to do so before moving to more open waters.
The people, the band, the cranes moving backwards and forwards.
The guard patrolling above the sluice, even that manic motor boat that cuts right across you, that on one occasion I purposely hit just added to my shear enjoyment of this game.
Standing on the bridge and steering manually out to open waters is something I never tire of.
Using the binoculars at various points of interest.
Using the UZO and identifying the various ships is also something I particularly enjoy.

The only time I believe you should not do anything with your boat or crew is on your very first patrol after you do the tutorial and the test mission.
Having done those now this will not be a further concern again on any future boat upgrades.

I would be interested in a mod that shuts the officer up.
There was a similar problem in SH5 when the officer kept saying " We are in shallow waters" all the time.
This was fixed with a mod that shut him up permanently but you still saw the comment in the message box.

Unfortunately there is not a manual that comes with the 2015 version.
There are quite a few of single EN PDF's in the manual folder.
The 2010 mini manual does contain some interesting and relevant information.
I would say these individual pages 7-12-15-16-19-27-33-45 are the ones of most interest.

Some of the F1 keyboard commands do not work, or are different on the EN keyboard.
@ = All Stop not ~
: = Snorkel depth not ;
# = Rudder amidships not '

You can use CTRL+F11 to put each section of the F1 key commands in to your main SH3 folder and then cut and paste them to a place of your choice for easy reference when the game is not loaded.

Good hunting
Peter

[K-61]

Thanks for the info, Pete. Some I knew, some I did not.

I have just returned from my first war patrol in a VIIB out of Kiel. Made the transit in and out of the canal. Thanks for the tip on the sluice. I found that it was best to stop the boat [which takes some farting about with the telegpraph!] and wait for it to open. Same exiting the sluice.

I do enjoy the eye candy once in a while, but after all the time you spend loading and tweaking the game, I'd rather not spend so much time close to land and just want to be free of it. I am going to try installing the mod that shuts up the frequent "ship sighted" reports and see how it works in the game. I've never used it before, but now with all the gorgeous eye candy and the numerous ships [I even saw, once in port and once at sea a side wheeler; did the South rise again?] it is exasperating trying to get out on time compression. I am happy with 128 or even 256, with a carefully plotted course.

Note that this is not a complaint, just an observation. What I like is you can play this game any way you like.

Another mod I think I might have and want to try is the "all weather guns." Not for cheating, but so that I might use my flak gun up in the wintergarden. We know this is all tied to the game engine, but I have seen conditions when you could man the flak gun even though the lower deck is awash. As Kaleun, I wish to have final say, not the weather man.

Oh, patrol report, almost forgot. I am finding torpedo attacks in stormy weather just about not worth even trying, at least at the beginning of the war [yes, I know about the modeling of the torpedo scandal, and agree with the mod made to reflect it] with just about every one of my torpedoes running too deep. I managed to sink two ships with torpedoes, but almost every torpedo fired in rough weather was a deep runner.

I eventually hauled off from the Hartlepool grid and sailed up west of the Shetlands before I had calm enough weather to get to my externals. It was late afternoon and I was waiting for it to get darker when a Tribal class destroyer hove into view from astern. She was really booking it and I had to dive away. Then I heard more warship screws and came up for a look. A three battleship task force! And there I was with only one steam fish in a bow tube and one steam torp in the stern tube. Not worth messing with that pack of dogs; I let them run.

A couple of times I ran into those small unescorted convoys [thank you, modders, not every convoy had an escort in the early years] and in the old days it would have been a massacre, but the new game mods make that very unlikely. Nice to see some historical reality. On the way back, I had one steamer in my stern tube and found two lake freighters sailing alone. I took out one with the last fish, and deck gunned the other. And then one last deck gun engagement with a four ton freighter, which sank. I let the crew manage the deck gun but I did have a bit of strafing fun with the flak gun.

Five ships for 19965 tons in my new Kaleun's maiden patrol.

I had one glitch which caused me to have to task-manager my way out of a lock-up that was induced by pressing Ctrl+F11 to take a screenshot. Totally froze up and no way out but task manager. It's been so many years I can't even remember if Ctrl+F11 is the combo for a screenshot.

[THEBERBSTER]

Hi K61

Docked in Brest was a big mistake.
Should have docked in my new home base Lorient.
Refitted but no external torpedoes replaced.

I did however find a bit of a cheat mode.
When I loaded the game I exited the game to dock in Brest.
This had 3 actions.
Each crew member gained 1 point.
A crew qualification also became available.
No patrol grid reference.
I did not cheat and use the qualification.
I deleted this last save.
So my patrol 10 with no patrol area has still become quite lucrative with 8 small vessels to date.

Hope your game is going ok?

Peter

[THEBERBSTER]

Hi K-61

In my last post I said that I did not have any external torpedoes.
When I loaded the game tonight they mysteriously appeared.

CTRL+F11 is correct for the screen shot, it is just annoying that the WO wants the flak gun to fire.

I have a mod that Magic put me on to that you mentioned about in an earlier post that you might be interested in.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2349926&postcount=198

Peter

[K-61]

Thanks, Pete. I believe I have that one in my mods archive, but I was hesitant to try it in LSH, in case it might be incompatible. Has anyone tried it yet with LSH?

[THEBERBSTER]

Hi K-61
I tested both versions of the mod and neither worked.

Patrol 11 Lorient to patrol grid EH92
25% fuel used at Ahead 1/3rd
Some rich pickings off Freetown.
Heavy amount of fuel used to reach 2 convoys at Ahead full.

Peter

[K-61]

Returning to base from my first career patrol in a VIIB out of Kiel. Was assigned to AM39. Rounding the top of the British Isles, cutting close to the Orkneys, I pounced on a single freighter. I gave it one eel and surfaced to finish it off with the deck gun. While I am in this engagement, my watch crew calls out multiple contacts coming down on us from the north.

This was weird, but LSH is proving to be an interesting mod... a small fishing fleet consisting of two large trawlers and three or four crab cutters. What could I do? They had already seen me, and aside of that, they were flying the British flag. We must be hard in this war... if the British have to be starved into peace, then so be it. No seafood in Scotland tonight, I am afraid.

I decided to take a shortcut to my patrol zone by going through the channel of the Hebrides. What a target-rich environment and lightly guarded. The only ASW vessel I saw was a trawler, which I evaded in time to avoid. Unusually for me, the sea was glassy calm and visibility was excellent. Rather than waste an eel on such a paltry target, I dove and proceeded for several hours to the southwest. While under, my hydrophones picked up a merchantman coming up the channel. When far enough away from the trawler, I surfaced and closed the distance. One eel into a freighter then finish with the deck gun... but running as fast as it can [but not faster than me] comes that trawler.

I was making a clean get away, but in the meantime, visibility began to be reduced by a light fog. But heavy enough for a plane to make a run on me. Broke a few things and forced me down... which allowed the trawler to get close enough to sniff around for a bit. No permanent damage to subsystems but knocked my hull integrity down to 76%. Had to be more careful after that.

Towards nightfall we surface and complete repairs. Several more targets and I am out of torpedoes, and running low on deck gun ammo. I was even firing star shells at small stuff. My last HE and most of my remaining rounds of AP were used to engage a large merchant, successfully. Exiting the Hebrides I decided to take the 24 hours through my patrol zone, around the top of the British Isles [no way am I going back up that channel with empty tubes and deck gun] and am now in the North Sea getting close to the Heimat. Thought I would inform my fellow Kaleunen before returning to base and give them a tip about this juicy hunting ground. One word of caution: it is not very deep through there in many spots. Mind your depth under keel in case of the need to crash dive. It is all too easy to hit the bottom at speed in a moment of panic. Keep asking the nav for the depth and study your charts. There are deeper parts; just look for the darker shades of blue on your charts. Although Loch Ewe is close to the eastern entrance to the channel, ASW patrols early-war are light. You should be alright as long as you are prudent. I would not try this area later in the war. I can't say from experience, but I would imagine being that close to land your odds of being jumped from the air go up.

[THEBERBSTER]

Hi K-61

Thanks for your patrol news.

In the areas that you mention you are very lucky to have been able to use your deck gun.
My experiences with all patrols has been some what limited of being able to use the deck gun due rough seas.
If you had had a type IXB with the 3.7cm flak gun would you have been able to have used it to take those smaller crafts out?
I like the way the weather changes in this game after a certain time.

I also had a situation with one convoy where the fog and sea was so bad I could not pick the targets up until it was too late and they were past me.
Being on the outside these are normally the small ships and I was not going to waste torpedoes and so let the convoy go.

I was wary of the channel below Stornoway in case it was mined.
In SH5 there is always some pairs of those small trawlers running back and forth and also a DD on the bend running to and fro across the channel.

Loch Ewe is the base for AMC's and these are pretty chunky targets.

I have noticed a problem when I want to go to Ahead Flank the telegraph drops the speed to Ahead Slow.
This happens surfaced and submerged.
The best I can get is Ahead Full.
I thought at first it might be something to do with the rough weather and not damaging the engines, but then it would not happen when submerged with electric engines.

I nearly met my end when I noticed for some reason the telegraph had moved to Ahead Standard without me noticing it.
I usually delete all way points so that cannot happen.
Luckily I escaped without any damage.

I also received some hull damage a while back 77% when I did not realize until too late that one of the convoy ships in the first row hit my winter garden and also did damage to the flak gun.
All was repaired apart from the hull.
I have 3 qualified repair men now available.

Apparently I should not changed my home base just because I received new bases where available in the radio messages.
I have been told that I should have waited for a pop up whatever that is.

I have just completed a long haul back from EH92 and picked up a few loose targets heading for Gibraltar.
I am currently in Vigo refitting from a ship which means no PQ grid when I start my next patrol number 12.
Also I have to change the default number of days in port from 21 to 1 and then I need to change them back again when I reach my home port Lorient.

I have made up a spread sheet of all my destroyed ships.
I am going to use it to see where the best grid action is for when I get situations where I do not have a patrol grid.

I really like the diversity of ships available in this mod.
So far in 11 patrols I have not come across a task force yet.
I think I might head back towards Gibraltar and see what is about.

Peter

[K-61]

Ah, yes, the 3.7 flak gun. Nice toy. I have used it in the past to take down a ship or two that are just a bit too fat for the 20mm. For some reason I really suck at using the flak guns manually against planes, even after practice in the academy; I let a qualified non-com do the job for me when on patrol.

I've also been having a hard time using the deck gun manually. I used to do it now and then in GWX, but I forget now how to manually dial the range in using that gauge on the left side of the screen. I used to be good at nailing rounds just below the waterline, but I don't know if there are any keys in LSH for manual control of the deck gun.

I've lived a charmed life thus far, having never hit a mine, but did once find myself in a minefield by accident. Scary things. Because of them, and for the fact that I am not Gunther Prien, I don't go into the English lion's lair and raid harbours. I've done it in the past, but prefer open sea hunting.

I am around the north coast of Ireland at the moment, still on my way to BF17. I can't believe my blind luck sometimes to run across singles. I just ran into a five ship convoy with no escorts. I submerged and made torpedo attacks, taking out three in a row. The fourth I hit with a fish from the stern tube, then surfaced to deck gun the cripples. Though it was a rare treat to find such a convoy and still have calm enough seas to use the gun, I hope it doesn't happen too often and make me tonnage greedy. It is still 1939, but I don't think it will be long until all the merchants sport guns.

I lost that career from a few days ago, the one where I had the IXB. It was fun while it lasted, but I was playing around with SH3 Commander. I have worked out a routine which seems sound enough thus far. I used the LSH2015 executable to start a first career patrol, saved while at sea or in base, then use Commander to start the game after that. While I can't recall any disasters in the past from making slight changes to the boat before going on a first patrol with a new career, I have read enough to believe it is not a good thing to do, so I don't make any changes on a first patrol.

Another thing I do with Commander is use it to assign qualifications to newly arrived crew members. I hire on any new hands to fill vacancies, then exit the game, use Commander to assign the qualifications then ship out. I like using the qualification option in Cmdr so I have my watches arranged by duty, even the seamen. I know the seamen's quals have no in-game effect, but I like to use them as markers.

Last night on the way back to port in a very dark night, my boat got caught in a sluice gate. From the tower view I could see the gate being rendered in-game right through the boat. Boat taking damage, then crew dying as I tried ahead, astern, anything to get out of it. Glad I made a save before entering the canal. I reloaded, then used a free view to ensure the gate's operation.

So far in LSH2015 I have only seen one task force at sea, as recounted in an earlier post. Half a dozen cruisers and escorts, but I was just a bit too far away and they were hauling across my bow at distance. The seas were too calm; I would have had to adjust the speed on my steamers to get the range, and whether I hit or missed, the bubble trail would have pointed right back to me. That was a first patrol in a new career, so I had not made any changes to torpedo loadout to get G7E's. Normally I load two electrics, in tubes 2 and 3 and the stern tube[s.] I like electrics in case I run into warships, but the downside is their lack of range. In any case, even if I had electrics in that situation, they were too short-ranged to have fired at the cruisers.

I usually don't opt for electric torpedoes in the external storage, mainly for reasons of historicity. The game does not model the fact that torpedoes in external storage were usually serviced before being loaded into tubes. Batteries in the G7E, for example, needed to be charged. Gyros needed to be checked, air tanks tested, etc. I make it a house rule that externals must be "off limits" for a few hours after being taken aboard, to simulate the time the crew would need to service them. External torpedoes were more vulnerable to disruption, by the pounding of waves and especially shock from depth charge and bomb explosions.

I don't think I've had your particular trouble with the engine telegraphs, but the odd time I have hit the wrong detent. I usually use the number keys for the engines, and then fine tune manually if needed. Which reminds me, I used to manually set the RPM's on the electric motors to 50 RPM, to be especially quiet. I don't know if you can still do that in LSH2015. I recall from when I last played, several years ago, that you could jump into the engineer's station and click on the RPM dial, just as you do with the diesels, but when I went to try that in LSH2015, it either can't be done or I am forgetting how to do it. Anybody managing to do that in LSH?

[THEBERBSTER]

Hi K-61
Like you I let the qualified flak gunner do the work and he did a very good job with the single 20mm until he was killed.
I have all the caliber but have not come across any aircraft other than friendlies since taking the IXB.
With the larger boat you are likely to be sent to PQ grids where the VIIB does not have the range.
3 flak gunners with 2 having qualifications.
You can only man the flag gun in the winter garden when you use the larger 3.7cm gun.

I quite like the deck gun in this version.
Manning the deck gun I have 1 qualified gunner and I use 2 sailors from the deck crew as they will have nothing to do otherwise.
I use map contacts so the first thing I do if I am going to fire it myself is use the compass and get a range.
I do not get closer normally than 2000 metres as you are likely to get return fire from light weapons.
At night time I may get a little closer depending on weather conditions.
There is a deranged crew member who keeps saying we are under attack and taking damage when we are not if you get too close to the target.
F10 takes you directly to the gun.
The mouse wheel gives you the magnification.
Up arrow increases the range.
Down arrow reduces the range.
Left and right arrows traverse the gun.
The skill depends to a certain degree on the weather conditions as this affects the rise and fall of the gun barrel.
Depending on the range I will either stay stationery or match the targets speed.

At this early period of the war there are not many merchants that are armed and also few convoys about.
This changes quite quickly with also more air patrols noticeable if you are in range.
I think there is a map that shows the air patrol areas.

You mentioning SH3 commander I did not realize that you could still make changes in it.
I have taken the opportunity to randomize the gramophone.

I have only used the qualifications the 1 you are given after each patrol.
The game comes set up with some already in place.
In the early days I was enlisting and dismissing crew to get the best possible.
My crew is now very experienced and well above any crew that could now be enlisted.

With a new career it is not advisable to make any changes at first which is not really a problem as you are on a test mission anyway.
Once you have transferred then you are ok.

I am interested in how the SH3 Commander qualifications work?
I would not like it if you can give out a large number of qualifications to the crew as I think it is worth working for and something to look forward to at the end of each patrol.

I have kissed the sluice gates goobye.
I admit it was a novelty to start with.
I quite enjoyed the outward bound journey but I docked before using them on the return journey.

I like the G7e and carry quite a few of them.
I use them in the day and the G7a at night.
I do not use auto loading.
At around 3km the G7e is very useful for a longer shot in a convoy with the G7a for the shorter shot.
Tubes 1 & 2 G7a
Tubes 3 & 4 G7e
Tube 5 G7a
Tube 6 G7e
I did not know about the historical factors which is interesting.
I think you play at higher level than I do.
I do not use crew fatigue as I used it in RFB and I found it frustrating having to move the crew around all the time.
My crew is very static and does not move around only for damage control and the 2 for the deck gun.

1 knot in real time is slow enough for me.
I know in reality a stationery boat needs to be constantly trimmed to maintain depth.

I managed to get the telegraph working ok last night, so I am not sure what is happening there with that.
I suspect that Ahead Flank was carefully used as I would imagine if it was over used the diesel engines could be damaged.

I missed a large convoy last night.
It was heading towards Casablanca and I took up a position only to find it had made a sharp turn towards Gibraltar.
By the time it showed on the map again I was too far away and it was too close to the Gibraltar straits.
I am always a bit worried about getting too close because I would suspect that there would be quite heavy air patrols to protect the docks.
There are still however single merchants making there way to and fro so I managed to bag 4.

I have now started keeping spreadsheet records of all my sinkings in Patrol order and also the patrol grid where the sinking took place.
Whether this is practical or not only time will tell.
I am hoping a previously active grid will be fruitful.
I also have a spreadsheet with all the ships tonnages and drafts that I have come across.
This saves time and also the pause bar obliterates the ship type in the recognition manual which is frustrating.

This is my mod list.
_LSH3-2015___FULLVERSION
_LSH3-2015___Patch_HSIE-V16B1
_LSH3-2015__BunkerStart
_LSH3-2015__HistoricalMessages
_LSH3-2015__NoFatigue-NoSleepCrew
_LSH3-2015_ATM_GreenWater
_LSH3-2015_ATM_GreenWater-SunFix
_LSH3-2015_GUI__WIDESCREEN
_LSH3-2015_SLS_SpecialEffectsBig

I would be interest to know if you do not use the crew fatigue how you operate with your crew.

Peter

[K-61]

Pete,

I figured out last night by farting around how to fully operate my deck gun. Just played with the keys intuitively and it worked. As for flak guns, you can man the 3.7. I think you just hit the F11 key repeatedly to cycle through the flak stations.

Yes, I think we play much alike, but perhaps I am a bit more daring than many. I like to get into what I call "knife fighting" range. In surface gunnery with cripples, I close to less than 1,000 metres. I used to get as close as `00, but I learned my lesson when my boat took heavy damage from an exploding merchantman and I had deck crew killed. Now I will approach as close as 400-500 metres. I will parallel a cripple so I can bring all guns to bear. I will let the deck gun crew do their thing while I rake a vessel with the flak guns, going for command bridge, any suspected gun stations, searchlights and prop area at the stern, along the water line.

As I play LSH, I suspect that the damage model is not quite the same as GWX, but I am not certain of it. Just a hunch I have.

I use a similar torpedo loadout as you do, but I place identical torpedoes in 1 and 4, and 2 and 3 for salvo firing. I imagine trying to "balance" out the boat in real life and I like to load same torpedoes for the game's salvo buttons. Not that I very often use them, except for maybe a heavy warship where I want to quickly launch and then dive away.

Last night I took my VIIB down to BF 17. I had used most of my torpedo load on the way there, and then to take down a 5,000 tonner at night while I was chasing a nearby convoy B-dienst had reported. That left me with one G7E. I finished off the freighter with a few deck gun rounds; I did not wish to lurk and wait forever for it to sink on its own. Doing a scan through the scope I did not see any guns, so surfaced to gun it and then run after the convoy. Normally if I am after a convoy I will not divert to nearby sightings, but this one freighter wandered into view at the extreme range of sight. I diverted to give it one torpedo, which left me the one G7E.

Hauling after the convoy through the night at ahead full, I finally sighted a ship at the back of the convoy. As it was still dark, I approached closer and saw more columns. Determining its base course, I went around to the port side and did an end-around. I was nervous because there were several escorts and I only had one torpedo left. Was it worth the risk? Ach, Himmel, be more aggressive!

Racing against the clock, I worked my way around to the starboard side of the westbound convoy as the sky was lightening. I had to balance the need for speed to get into ideal position against the possibility of being sighted by rushing in. I dared to remain surfaced until the hair on my neck was standing on end, and set the decks awash. When I could bear the strain no longer, I dove to periscope depth and set slow ahead. As I got closer, I went to silent running at 1 knot and crept into a beam position. In the center of the convoy was a fat T3 estimated at 18,000 tons! Yes, one torpedo, could I damage it and force it fall out? Creeping closer I planned my attack; set the torpedo to run deep enough to run under a lesser valued ship, but impact trigger so it would not be set off it did run under another ship of lesser draft.

When I felt the time was right, I fired and immediately ordered a turn to the east and dive to 100 metres. After what seemed an eternity, the torpedo detonated against the T3. I hate those few seconds when you see the chronometer needle creep past the red line with no boom. Just as I was cursing my bad luck after all of that work, kaboom! Immediately the escorts began to fire starshells, but I was already leaving town. At no time did an escort come close enough to detect me; I had found a perfect gap in the screen and exploited it. Continuing me deep dive, I crept west for several hours and let the convoy haul away.

Coming up to scope depth, I had emerged about 7,000 metres astern of the convoy. I could pick out individual ships in the morning haze, but waited until they were about 10,000 metres away before surfacing to follow from astern and recharge the batteries. I came as close as 6000 metres to the convoy from astern, but the injured T3, though smoking, was having no trouble keeping station. I followed until afternoon, hoping it would fall out, but no luck.

Reluctantly, I gave up hope and set the course for the long journey home. Pulling into Wilhlemshaven, we were showered with flowers, champagne and cheap cologne and bedecked with medals. I have decided to stay with my VIIB in spite of the IXB now being offered. My crew has matured, with two planes shot down and a number of kills by torpedo and gun. Let's not mess with a good thing. We are now about to leave on patrol 3.

[K-61]

Oh, forgot to address your question about SH3 Commander qualifications. You can assign them in the "manage crew" option. I award a basic qualification to each crew member. I don't think BdU would send mere green kids to sea with no skills at all. My officers have two or three. The game recognizes all qualifications of officers, one of the PO's, except I think the highest PO can have two, and qualifications of seamen are not recognize in-game. I do use them as "markers" but I have found that if I click on the deck gun, the two seamen and one non-com get assigned there every time, so perhaps the game is recognizing the seamen skills?

As for fatigue, original model is garbage, with the staying power of the crew that on old age pensioner. It became rather distracting having to tell grown men to go to bed. In real life, all of the watch changes occur as a natural part of life at sea. We do not need to become micromanagers of every last detail and I appreciate the option of using SH3 Commander's "no fatigue" option. It does offer other models, like Real U-boat and GWX, but I don't know if they work with LSH and haven't tried them. "No fatigue" is not realistic, but it is in my opinion the best working option with what is available. More than "fatigue" per se suddenly stopping a diesel or electric motor from stopping, that is silly. However, overall the crew of any vessel does have a kind of running down over time, but there is no way of realistically depicting this in the game. I use a gut feeling that we have been at sea long enough and head for home. I will use a milk cow or replenishment at sea once in a while, but not to indefinitely stay at sea. Sometimes you just have to go home, and as Kaleun I make that decision. If my boat is damaged, we are going home for proper repairs.

[K-61]

One last observation before I head out again.

When we left Wilhelmshaven last night, we had just started leaving our berth when we get a report of airplanes. I thought it would be the ME-109's I used to see in GWX, but no, they were Blenheims or Wellingtons! I ordered my flak gunner into action, but where could I go in a busy port with practically no water under me keel?

I emerged to the watch view to see what happened. I saw my flak gunner firing and soon thereafter all three planes went down. To my surprise, I saw parachutes of bailed out crew, soon to become kriegsgefangener, sailing down into town and the port. I looked at my logbook but no entry of planes shot down, so I conclude that every warship in port had opened up with the flak guns. I don't know if LSH models ground-based flak, such as 88's, but somebody other than my gunner shot down those planes.

For that patrol I had not set "start at sea" in SH3 Commander. I know one thing, if I ever leave from port again, I will have my flak gun manned from the outset.

What excitement!

[K-61]

Just loaded up and left port, from the pier in Willy. Had my flak gunner at his station but no enemy planes appeared. This is certainly adding pucker factor to the game.

I know early in the war the RAF tried to attack German harbours right from the first day of the war. It did not work out well at all, as unescorted bombers, contrary to Guilio Douhet, did not always "get through." The RAF lost a batch of Wellingtons, I believe it was, in the Battle of the Heligoland Bight, if my memory is not faulty.

I have found that since my seizure last year and brain surgery to remove the [benign] tumour, I have been having some trouble recalling exact details of this or that battle. I used to be a walking encyclopedia, and I find I do still recall a lot, it is just not as sharp as it used to be.

Nonetheless, I am thankful for my recovery thus far and even the fact that I can play such a challenging game as SH3 encourages me. Each patrol I find more of my old skills returning and it feels like riding a bicycle that had been stowed in the loft for years. You are a bit wobbly at first, but you soon get used to it again.

I forgot one other notable event from my patrol last night. I sank a freighter and zoomed in for a look at the debris. I thought I was hallucinating at first, but I saw the fuselage of a Hurricane fighter! Later, when I checked my personnel file and logs in SH3 Commander, I saw that the freighter I sunk was listed as carrying aircraft.

I don't know who modded that in particular, but hats off for including such detail. Although most of my patrols I start at sea, I do find I enjoy being a tourist for the eye candy. I even saw Opel trucks and a car that looked like a Kubelwagen or similar car on shore.

[THEBERBSTER]

Hi K-61
Wow, that was very detailed and a most enjoyable read.
I must next say congratulations on your recovery that must have been extremely worrying not only for yourself but also for your family.

No, you are definitely more daring than I am, which might be down to an age thing where I think when you are younger you are prepared to take more chances.

I will check out the F11 key but I am pretty sure that if you have the double winter garden set up with the 2 flak gun mountings you are able to go from gun to gun.

I think the ship you mentioned with the aircraft I remember sinking a Pyro Transporter 7100 tons that had an aircraft mounted above the bow.

The attack in Willy by allied planes I remember that also in one of my earlier games and like you my flak gunner did not hit anything.
You notice in port that all the ships are always manned.
It has however drawn my attention now and if I am leaving port or coming into port in daylight I now always have my flak guns manned.

I will take a look at the SH3 Commander qualifications.
This is my crew on patrol 12.
http://i58.tinypic.com/205s5k1.jpg
I have 3 officers showing actuals of 779,778, and 774
Don't forget that when you transfer to a new boat you take your crew and all qualifications, medals and points with you.

Your view on fatigue is similar to mine, as it is something that should look after itself.
As the captain I would expect the crew to address their own issues.

I think I may have to be a bit more daring with the deck gun and remember I am playing SH3 and not SH5.

I have never fired a salvo.
One thing I do find irritating is that the torpedo doors do not remain open when you go from one tube to the next.

You mention going to a beam position.
By this do you mean that you are between 2 rows in a convoy, parallel to them?
What is the shortest distance you have fired a torpedo from, and what speed did you use?

Patrol 12 off Gib has been quite rewarding.
I managed to attack the same convoy twice.
The first attack I fired 2 G7e at a Passenger Liner 21000 tons with a 12.6 draft in row 2 and 2 G7a at a T2 Tanker with a 9 draft in row 3 on fast settings.
I think I hit the Passenger Liner with 3 of them and number 4 missing everything.
The Liner was crippled but did not sink.
I had to wait for the escorts to disappear and then surfaced and used the periscope as the sea was at 15 wind speed and fired another eel and down she went.
I then managed to catch the convoy again and this time I did get the T2 Tanker.
As the convoy was beginning to reach the end of CG76 I decided not to pursue it again but I am currently making my way over towards BE71 and then later homeward to Lorient.

I think in these early days in the war the escorts have not developed the skills needed and so far I have only been damaged once by depth charges in the past 11 patrols.
I am sure both the air cover and the escorts will improve as time goes on but at the moment I am 5 months in to what was known as "Happy Times" so hopefully I can continue to make the most of it while it lasts.

Peter

[K-61]

By beam position I mean off to the side of the convoy, either with them in front of me, or positioned off to either side ahead of the convoy where I then wait for them to draw in front of me. I don't like taking off-angle shots unless I have to and am firing magnetic pistols.

My sense of daring varies according to the time of the war and Allied numbers, skill and technology. Early war, they are noobs, poor tactics paltry numbers of escorts and air cover. Even the planes they had were not particularly effective. Things changed as the crews gained more experience, more and better planes were put into operation and the weapons tweaked. For example, the depth settings on their aerial depth charges and bombs were set too shallow, I think it was. Through research and experience they found that U-boats were getting down and they were throwing their ordnance on top of their last position, where it detonated harmlessly. Once they set the bombs to detonate at about fifty feet, or 25 metres, there is my memory issue again, they began to enjoy more success. The idea was to get the charge to go off below a diving U-boat.

The invention of airborne radar and the Leigh Light really made planes a danger, as of course did ASW aircraft taken to sea on escort carriers, or very long range maritime patrol planes. It was normal practice to run surfaced at night to charge diesels. Without radar, it was practically impossible to find a surfaced U-boat in the dark. In daylight, a U-boat could see an aircraft and dive away in enough time to avoid damage. Generally, you needed good visibility to see a U-boat, but that visibility allowed the U-boat to see planes afar off. In poor visibility it was only a fluke if a plane happened upon a U-boat. Even then, there was so little time for the plane to set up an attack. The pilot was often as surprised to see the U-boat as was the U-boat to see the plane.

But once radar came along, poor visibility was the friend of the plane. He could now hunt in the dark, like a bat, and his prey could not see him. With the deployment of the Leigh Light, a plane could pick up a surfaced U-boat in the dark, running along and charging diesels, from miles away. He could set up his run, then when only a few hundred yards away would switch on the light. There was the U-boat, naked as the day it was born, with no time to dive away before being attacked.

Thinking about it now, it may have been the other way around... I think the bombs and charges were set too deep, so that when they attacked a U-boat, the explosions were too deep. The more I think about it, the more I think it was the change to 25 feet that made ordnance more effective. Even if the boat had just dived away, at 25 feet depth the charge could still cause damage. I will have to check one my U-boat books.

Getting back to convoy attacks...as I said, early war I am almost contemptuous of the escorts. If the weather is bad, or it is a very dark night, no moon, perhaps some fog, I may attempt to get inside the escort screen while surfaced and launch torpedoes, then turn away. Commanders like Kretshcmer, Prien and Schepke were bold enough to do this. Typically, the escorts would run around outside the perimeter, firing starshells outside the box. Inside the box, a U-boat running with decks awash was hard to see. I remember hearing Kretschmer talking about running past an escort and he could see a crewman shielding a lit cigarette in his cupped hand.

Although I can penetrate a convoy while surfaced at night, I find the game makes it harder to do than in real life. It is best in game to try this when the seas are in motion. Glassy smooth seas make it easy to spot a U-boat's wake. As well, you can't run around at high speed doing this, you must run at lower speeds. Fog can help, but it also shields the escorts from view. Nothing gives more pucker than suddenly seeing a destroyer come out of the fog about a few hundred yards away.

Having penetrated a convoy, I try to position myself diagonal to the columns, so I can use both stern and bow tubes. In the game the columns can be closer than in real life. Remember, your torpedo has to run 300 metres before it will arm. If the ships are only 500 metres apart, you will have to do some maneuvering to ensure this. I will usually fire my bow tubes first, then as the distance from the targets astern increases enough, I will fire my stern tube[s.]. This is why I call it knife fighting range.

Being inside the convoy can help shield you from escort scans. As soon as I fire, I start to dive deep and turn toward the stern of the convoy. This allows me some time to get deeper and let the convoy draw away from me as I quietly slip out the back. If time allows, and I have enough darkness, and if the convoy is slow enough, I will try to find every escort and its position around the perimeter and use that information to set up my attack and escape. If it is a faster convoy and you are running out of darkness, best to do the best attack you can. The escorts usually return to their former position after they hunt you, so if you make another attack later, you will know which part of the convoy has the strongest escorts.

Some players like to attack escorts first. This can leave a gaping hole in the perimeter which you can exploit later. I have used this tactic and had it work for me. You must have a reasonable expectation that you will be able to maintain contact with the convoy so you can come back later and attack from that unscreened quarter. Factors that you should consider if wanting to employ this stratagem: What period of the war is it, how close to shore [think planes] is the convoy? Is there a carrier nearby [have you seen carrier based planes?] Is the convoy approaching land or moving away from land based aviation? Is the weather improving or worsening, visibility, etc.? Do you have enough fuel for the high speed runs you will need to make? Last of all, how many torpedoes do you have? There is no point in using all or most of your torpedoes in attacking escorts, then to have few or none to attack the convoy.

I try to setup my attack so that I can get the highest value targets first, in case I lose contact with the convoy later or get forced by damage or other considerations [fuel!] into breaking contact. The type of torpedoes you have [steam or electric] and their speed and range will have to factored in. At night, it is best to use your steamers. In daylight, you may prefer to use your electrics. I prefer to keep electrics in my stern tubes for defense against warships, and also to ensure that when I fire, I am already moving away from the target or escorts. I also prefer to keep at least one torpedo for the trip home, in case I get attacked and am desperate to attack my tormentor, or for any targets of opportunity I see on the way home. On the other hand, I would rather attack a fat target in a convoy with my last torpedo than save it, hoping for an even fatter target on the way home. These are things that you as the Kaleun have to consider. If you are running low on fuel, what use is a belly full of torpedoes?

There are so many factors to consider in this game that I find it never gets old for me. This is a game that gets harder as you progress, not easier. In the early years I can be a tonnage whore, but as the war progresses I find simple survival becomes a priority. I have had my share of fun attacking unwary destroyers, but I find nothing more satisfying than grabbing the beard of the British lion, giving a tweak and then getting away. What do I mean by that? How about nailing a carrier they are escorting and getting away scot-free? Picking off a battleship at sea or other capital ship. Our priority as U-boat commanders is the merchant shipping attrition war, but every now and then we must give the Royal Navy a dent to its pride.

I am a Canadian, married to a girl I met in England when I was a young man travelling the country. I like to tease her every now and then when I enjoy a success in-game: "Dear, your mates are really cross with me right now. I sunk one of their carriers and Winston is jolly well miffed!" I often play with my gaming notebook in our bedroom, so when she comes to bed at night it is not unusual for her to hear me yelling in German at my crew or cussing out the Tommies.

Well, it is time to get back to the game. I am still in patrol 3; after several successes against singles I have been chasing a faster convoy for several days. I am now off the port beam, just close enough to keep them in sight. There is a Hunt class destroyer roaming about at the front of the convoy, sheepdogging for us Germans. I am planning to make an attack around nightfall. In the middle of the convoy there is a cruiser, as well as some very fat liners, tankers and freighters.

I've only got six torpedoes left: four in the bow tubes, one in the stern tube and one spare up front. My plan is to attack the fattest merchantmen, hoping that any that do not sink will soon fall out of this 9-knot convoy. It would be nice to hit the cruiser, but it is in the middle column, at the rear. That would mean allowing all the rest of the merchantmen passing me by in order to attack it. No, I think the merchantmen are the priority, and if the circumstances allow I may be able to fire a stern fish at her. So many fat targets and so few torpedoes.

I am approaching half a tank of fuel; whether I am successful or not I will soon have to consider heading home or perhaps hitting a supply tanker. The weather is still calm enough to use the deck gun, but that's only if the weather holds until this evening. Weather has a way of messing up the best laid plans. I recall once stalking a convoy in my small duck boat, only to have the weather close in and muck things up. That is life at sea, you take what cards you are given and play them.

I am happy to hear of your patrol successes. Enjoy the Happy Times while we can, kamerad. This war is going to get very interesting.

[K-61]

One opinion I would like to share with my fellow forum members:

There is nothing that screams out to me, "ahistorical!" than seeing a capital ship or ships escorting a convoy actually being in the convoy, and forced to proceed at the convoy's pace. A battleship or cruiser could make well over 20 knots, making it very difficult for a submarine to attack her. At certain times of peril, the Royal Navy would send capital ships to guard convoys, but as with fighters escorting bombers [with the exception of Goering's order to the ME-109's to stay with the bombers in the Battle of Britain, and early American missions over Germany] the escorts would keep up their higher speeds outside the convoy and would zig zag in order to stay nearby.

It would have been suicidal to place such valuable ships, easily capable of standing on their own if not chained to the convoy, inside the convoy. As with fighter planes escorting bombers, if forced to throttle back to the slower speed of their charges, they became sitting ducks. Galland and Moelders knew this and told Goering so, and American fighter commanders soon made this point clear when they were told to stick to the B-17's. Escorts are more effective when allowed to roam ahead or off to the sides.

From everything I have ever read about the naval war, I cannot recall ever reading that large naval escorts that guarded convoys sailed inside the perimeter. They sailed nearby, moving at higher speed and often changing course so as not to pull too far ahead of their convoys. They did not have to be inside the convoy to protect it from raiders, merely nearby. If anybody has sources or references that say I am wrong, please share them. I am now thinking that such capital ships should be removed from the convoys by modders, but at the same time I am sensitive to the fact that I am not a modder and I have great respect for those who are. I don't want this to sound like whining, as it is not; it is simply an observation and I hope I didn't hurt anyone's feelings with it.

Since I feel this way, the easiest thing for me to do about it is ignore such targets. The convoy I am currently stalking has a cruiser in it; I think I will pretend it isn't there; aside from that, there are some fat merchantmen the English merchant marine needs to be deprived of.

[THEBERBSTER]

Hi K-61
I enjoyed reading how you go about setting up your attacks.
Your attacks from inside sound interesting and although I have had opportunities to do this I am always a bit concerned about the convoy lane widths.

The biggest problem for me is the weather when there is a wind speed of 15.
I can close to within about 1500 metres at 90 degrees and can see the targets through the scope at several thousand yards away and identify them.
When a target now gets close enough to a firing position I find that the periscope now seems to be more constantly under the water and seems to take ages to get even a glimpse again and on number of occasions the opportunities have been lost.
Could this be the wash from the convoy's propellers causing this?

Would you get closer?
I am used to playing SH5 and it is suicidal getting close to escorted convoys but I am new to SH3 and it may act differently.

Convoy rows in SH3 seem to be quite narrow so you must be firing at quite close range.
Do you have a maximum angle to the target that is effective?
I know in real life as you said the u-boats could move between the rows at night.
I have had opportunities to do this but have found some rows to be only 500 metres apart.
The other problem I could see is the scope being picked up by lights and coming under attack by light weapons.
I have noticed that all ships can return fire of some type if you get too close.

I wonder how we will survive the "hedgehog" when it comes.
I agree with you about the escorts.
They intend to run round like headless chickens.
I am not convinced also that the tactics of abandoning the convoy without an escort to look for the attacker is a sensible practice.
I also notice that if there are 3 escorts they try to find you while the convoy moves on.
What if there was more than one attacker lurking for this now undefended convoy.
They then move off after a while leaving the last one aimlessly roaming about until the convoy is over 10-15km ahead.

Do you do most of your attacks at 90 degrees?
Do you find that you are inclined to use the same distance to the first convoy lane?
What are your views on setting the ship drafts compared to the recognition manual?

I get a bit nervous sometimes when you get an escort that is on point position roaming around two to three thousand metres away and start coming towards you and then hopefully or luckily will turn to take up another position.

Patrol 12 is going quite well.
16 ships for 71000 tons.
A large number of small ships in the total.

I came across a small un-escorted convoy of 6 ships going north in BF71.
The leading two I took out with two rear torps.
Luck was in as there was no fog and no wind speed.
For once, thank you, a mill pond.
I then put a distance of around 1800 metres before surfacing and then positioned myself directly astern of the last ship, dropped the speed until I was traveling at the same knots speed.
I made sure that the WO had the deck gun icon on hold fire as I did not want to waste ammunition in taking these 4 out.
I took the deck gun and all went to plan.
It is useful to have that extra bit of clout with the 10.5cm

I am slowly making my way back to Lorient.
Plenty of fuel left in the IXB as I have only used just under 50% but low on torps only 2 rear ones left.

Incidently I have yet to come across any convoy heavily defended like you mentioned.
I think later when they bring in the escort carriers things I am sure will really hot up from above and below.

Peter

[Sailor Steve]

About qualifications: There is no such thing as an unqualified petty officer. He is never a "Petty Officer second class". He will be a "Radioman second class", or "Machinist Mate third class", or "Torpedoman first class". Having that rating is what makes him a petty officer.

For this reason my habit has long been to start with a "false patrol", preparing the boat and loading the patrol, then immediately ending it. Actually I take a little cruise around the harbor just for fun. After that I go in and qualify all my petty officers. I also remove all medals previously awarded by Commander, at least in 1939. Then I'm ready for my first real patrol.

In the game you can also give qualifications to the lower enlisted ranks. These do nothing in the game. PO quals do boost their skills.

[THEBERBSTER]

Hi Steve

The qualifications that K-61 and myself were referring to are the game qualifications that can be awarded either through SH3 Commander or awarded at the end of a patrol when docking.

K-61 adds his game qualifications through SH3 Commander.
I only give my 1 game allowed qualification after docking.
The PO can also be promoted to a maximum of 300 points and is allowed only 1 game qualification.
The Officers can be promoted to 500 points and are allowed a maximum of 3 game qualifications.
LSH3-2015 starts with some game qualifications already given to the Officers.
Sailors can be promoted to 100 points, but not allowed to hold any game qualifications.

Peter

[Sailor Steve]

The qualifications that K-61 and myself were referring to are the game qualifications that can be awarded either through SH3 Commander or awarded at the end of a patrol when docking.

And that is exactly what I was talking about. The game is wrong. I use Commander to give my crew the qualifications that they would have had historically.

[Aktungbby]

There is nothing that screams out to me, "ahistorical!" than seeing a capital ship or ships escorting a convoy actually being in the convoy, and forced to proceed at the convoy's pace.
Well to every rule there is an occasional exception!:O: I consider a cruiser a capital ship...and there is the HMS Sheffield Southampton sub class of the Town-class (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town-class_cruiser_(1936))cruisers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruiser) (with stainless steel fittings) clearly in the Artic/Murmansk bound convoy. HMS Sheffield engaged and sank German destroyer Friedrich Eckoldt (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_destroyer_Z16_Friedrich_Eckoldt), while also damaging the cruiser Admiral Hipper (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_cruiser_Admiral_Hipper) in the Battle of the Barent's Sea. Pic or it didn't happen: HMS Sheffield at starboard- front on convoy https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7e/HMS_Sheffield_convoy.jpggood reading here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_convoys_of_World_War_II (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_convoys_of_World_War_II) On yet another occasion : The deterrence value of a battleship in protecting a convoy was also dramatically illustrated when the German light battleships (referred by some as battlecruisers) Scharnhorst (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_battleship_Scharnhorst) and Gneisenau (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_battleship_Gneisenau), mounting 11 in (28 cm) guns, came upon an eastbound British convoy (HX-106 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HX-106), with 41 ships) in the North Atlantic on February 8, 1941. When the Germans detected the slow but well-protected battleship HMS Ramillies (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Ramillies_(07)) escorting the convoy, (clearly at convoy speed) they fled the scene rather than risk damage from her 15 in (38 cm) guns. On yet another convoy operation:
On 8 February 1941 Ramillies was on duty in the North Atlantic Ocean (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Atlantic_Ocean), escorting Convoy HX 106 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convoy_HX_106) comprising 41 ships eastbound from Halifax, Nova Scotia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_Halifax) to Liverpool (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liverpool), England, when the two German battleships Scharnhorst (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_battleship_Scharnhorst) and Gneisenau (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_battleship_Gneisenau) appeared over the horizon. The German squadron was under the command of Admiral Günther Lütjens (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%BCnther_L%C3%BCtjens). The captain of the Scharnhorst offered to draw off the Ramillies, so that the Gneisenau could sink the merchant ships. It is unlikely, however, that Ramillies‍ '​ captain would have left the convoy he was protecting to chase the much faster German ship. Further, Ramillies was armed with the excellent 15 inch gun (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BL_15_inch_Mk_I_naval_gun) and was capable of doing significant damage to the German vessels. In the event, Lütjens strictly followed Adolf Hitler (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler)'s directive not to engage enemy capital ships. The presence of Ramillies was sufficient to deter the attack.
On 24 May 1941, Ramillies, with Captain Arthur D. Read (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Arthur_D._Read&action=edit&redlink=1) commanding, was south of Cape Farewell (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Farewell,_Greenland), Greenland (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland), on duty escorting Convoy HX 127 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_War_II_convoys) eastbound from Halifax. Some 57 merchant ships were in the group bound for Liverpool, with the most common cargoes being, oil, aviation spirit, lubricants, gasoline, lumber, grain, steel, sugar, scrap iron and pig iron. Two ships carried general cargo, and there were single ships carrying molasses, trucks and cereals. Other escort vessels were designed to meet the submarine menace, and included a modern Canadian destroyer, HMCS Ottawa (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMCS_Ottawa), the Indian navy sloop, HMIS Sutlej (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMIS_Sutlej_(U95)), an obsolete ex-US Navy destroyer, HMS Salisbury (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Salisbury_(I52)), an escort destroyer, HMS Hambledon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Hambledon_(L37)), the corvettes HMS Larkspur (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=HMS_Larkspur_(K82)&action=edit&redlink=1), HMS Begonia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Begonia_(K66)) and several other smaller ships. If anything, Ramillies would have been a liability dealing with submarines. She was there as insurance against attack by surface raiders.
If Ramillies had to face a major surface attack, the two destroyers were probably the only escorts of value to her.
The new German battleship Bismarck (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_battleship_Bismarck) broke out into the North Atlantic after sinking the battlecruiser (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battlecruiser) HMS Hood (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Hood_(51)), Britain's largest warship, in the Battle of the Denmark Strait (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Denmark_Strait). Ramillies was well east of Newfoundland (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newfoundland_(island)) to the southwest of Bismarck, and if she had continued her raid, Ramillies was all that the Royal Navy had to stop her from ravaging the sealanes off North America (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_America). On 24 May 1941 the Admiralty (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Admiralty) ordered Ramillies to leave the convoy and steam on a course to intercept the enemy ship. Bismarck had sustained some damage in the action against the Prince of Wales, and opted to make for France for repairs, instead of continuing on a convoy raiding mission.
It was a measure of the desperation of the Royal Navy that such an old ship was sent out alone to intercept one of the world's most potent battleships which was supported by the heavy cruiser Prinz Eugen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_cruiser_Prinz_Eugen). [wiki] Fortunately for her, she was not put to the test. In fact the capital ships on convoy duty were expendable; a hard fact of war.... https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d6/15inchgunsatImperialWarMuseumLondon.jpg/220px-15inchgunsatImperialWarMuseumLondon.jpg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:15inchgunsatImperialWarMuseumLondon.jpg)HMS Ramillies' excellent 15" gun at British Imperial War Museum

[THEBERBSTER]

Hi Steve

It all comes down to the level of how you want to play the game.
In your case historically accuracy is important to you and that is your prerogative.
I just play the game as a game and enjoy it in my own way.

Peter

[CaptBones]

Hello Steve, et. al.

Although what you've said regarding "Petty Officers" is true for the USN, it is not entirely correct for the KM. The game isn't entirely correct or entirely wrong either, but it is very incomplete as far as the rates, ratings and qualifications for the WWII Kriegsmarine go.

Looking through my reproduction "German Military Uniforms and Insignia 1933-1945" and a couple of other reprints from "Signal" magazine, the following might be useful in understanding what is right and what is not-so-right in the game. However, the equivalent terminology I’ll be using is that of the Royal Navy, which is where the original documentation for the book and translations of "Signal" came from.

There were four grades of "Ratings"; Ordinary Seaman (Matrose), Able Seaman (Matrosengefreiter), Leading Seaman (Matrosenobergefreiter), and Leading Seaman with 4-1/2 years seniority (Matrosenhauptgefreiter). Only three of those are presented in the game, Ordinary Seaman (Matrose) is not used; the sleeve insignia for that was just a five-pointed star, which should also be present above the chevrons for all the others.

There were also two more distinguishing grade badges (arm stripes) for Ratings used; a small chevron underneath the single chevron of an Able Seaman who was awaiting direct promotion to Petty Officer and a thick single chevron with “diamond” above it, of gold plaited cord for a Leading Seaman with more than 6yrs seniority, instead of the three chevrons denoting 4-1/2 years seniority. Neither of those is represented in the game.

However, the three senior "Ratings" were “Petty Officers” as in the USN. In the KM, there were only two grades of Petty Officer, Bootsmannsmaat (Boatswain’s Mate), equivalent to Petty Officer in the RN and Oberbootsmannsmaat (Senior Boatswain’s Mate), equivalent to Chief Petty Officer in the RN. Both of these ranked between the Ratings and Warrant Officers and neither of them is represented in the game.

All Ratings, except for new recruits, also had a “Service Department” (Laufbahn) badge worn above the rank badge to show what their trade specialty was. This is the same as the “qualifications” we use in the game. However, there were fifteen Service Department trade emblems and the game only gives us five of those; armourers (gunner), torpedo artificers (torpedoman), sick berth Petty Officers (medic), engine room artificers (machinist), and radio telegraphists (radioman). You are completely correct in that every one of the Ratings in the game would have had a qualification badge worn above their rank insignia. They would not have been anything other than an Ordinary Seaman if they did not have a trade specialty or “qualification” to begin with.

The other three game qualification emblems either did not exist (flak gunner and repair) or were actually an Officer Service Branch (Laufbahn) emblem, in the case of the star for an Executive Branch officer being used for “watchman”. The badge of a repairman would have been that of the Carpenter Department and the flak gunner would have worn the armourer’s badge (a gunner is a gunner is a gunner, eh?).

As for the “Petty Officers” used in the game, they are actually KM Warrant Officers. There were four WO grades; for the Deck Department they were, Bootsmann, Stabsbootsmann, Oberbootsmann, and Stabsoberbootsmann. The Oberbootsmann grade is not used in the game and the shoulder straps shown do not include the Laufbahn insignia, which was a fouled anchor for the Deck Dept. Other WO’s, including Quartermasters (which were the Navigators, somewhat the same as for the USN), Artificers (machinists), Ordnance (armourers/gunners), Paymasters (schreiber/writers) and so on, all had different Laufbahn and different rank titles as well; again, none of which are used in the game. For instance; the Quartermaster WO ranks were Steurmann, Stabssteurmann, etc., while the Engine Room Artificer WO ranks were Machinist, Stabsmachinist. etc.

Well, enough; maybe too much, so I won’t even start on the Officer ranks and insignia (although they aren’t as messed-up as the WO’s).

Hope you find this useful; good luck and good hunting.:salute:

[Sailor Steve]

Cool! No, I did not know any of that, and it is very useful. Thanks for the explanation. :sunny:

[K-61]

Hi K-61
I enjoyed reading how you go about setting up your attacks.
Your attacks from inside sound interesting and although I have had opportunities to do this I am always a bit concerned about the convoy lane widths.

The biggest problem for me is the weather when there is a wind speed of 15.
I can close to within about 1500 metres at 90 degrees and can see the targets through the scope at several thousand yards away and identify them.
When a target now gets close enough to a firing position I find that the periscope now seems to be more constantly under the water and seems to take ages to get even a glimpse again and on number of occasions the opportunities have been lost.
Could this be the wash from the convoy's propellers causing this?

Would you get closer?
I am used to playing SH5 and it is suicidal getting close to escorted convoys but I am new to SH3 and it may act differently.

Convoy rows in SH3 seem to be quite narrow so you must be firing at quite close range.
Do you have a maximum angle to the target that is effective?
I know in real life as you said the u-boats could move between the rows at night.
I have had opportunities to do this but have found some rows to be only 500 metres apart.
The other problem I could see is the scope being picked up by lights and coming under attack by light weapons.
I have noticed that all ships can return fire of some type if you get too close.

I wonder how we will survive the "hedgehog" when it comes.
I agree with you about the escorts.
They intend to run round like headless chickens.
I am not convinced also that the tactics of abandoning the convoy without an escort to look for the attacker is a sensible practice.
I also notice that if there are 3 escorts they try to find you while the convoy moves on.
What if there was more than one attacker lurking for this now undefended convoy.
They then move off after a while leaving the last one aimlessly roaming about until the convoy is over 10-15km ahead.

Do you do most of your attacks at 90 degrees?
Do you find that you are inclined to use the same distance to the first convoy lane?
What are your views on setting the ship drafts compared to the recognition manual?

I get a bit nervous sometimes when you get an escort that is on point position roaming around two to three thousand metres away and start coming towards you and then hopefully or luckily will turn to take up another position.

Patrol 12 is going quite well.
16 ships for 71000 tons.
A large number of small ships in the total.

I came across a small un-escorted convoy of 6 ships going north in BF71.
The leading two I took out with two rear torps.
Luck was in as there was no fog and no wind speed.
For once, thank you, a mill pond.
I then put a distance of around 1800 metres before surfacing and then positioned myself directly astern of the last ship, dropped the speed until I was traveling at the same knots speed.
I made sure that the WO had the deck gun icon on hold fire as I did not want to waste ammunition in taking these 4 out.
I took the deck gun and all went to plan.
It is useful to have that extra bit of clout with the 10.5cm

I am slowly making my way back to Lorient.
Plenty of fuel left in the IXB as I have only used just under 50% but low on torps only 2 rear ones left.

Incidently I have yet to come across any convoy heavily defended like you mentioned.
I think later when they bring in the escort carriers things I am sure will really hot up from above and below.

Peter

Sorry to be taking several days to respond, Peter, but here it goes:

I do not think your difficulties at getting a good scope lock in really bad weather is due to convoy prop wash. Whether attacking convoys or single ships, or in position ahead and to the side of the target ship, it is difficult to get a stable view of the target when the waves are whipping about like that. It was difficult for a U-boat to maintain precise trim and depth keeping when pounded by high wave action. I have lost a few targets recently due to this difficulty. One was a beautifully set up shot, where I had closed to within 400 metres [due to low visibility] and was within seconds of taking the shot. Suddenly, I lost view of the target and by the time I reacquired it, it had sailed past. C'est le guerre. It was a fast mover and I decided it should get away.

It is much more difficult in the game to move between convoy rows; I believe the main reason for this is that the columns are usually too close together. 500 metres separation is not much; I recall reading accounts of convoys that had individual ships spaced further than that apart. The other reason it is difficult in-game is that the routines that decide when you are spotted are more challenging than real life. I would not expect to be able to do it on a clear, calm moonlit night, but I have read many accounts of aces like Kretschmer, Schepke and Prien moving freely within convoy boxes, surfaced at night, pre-radar. Notwithstanding the previous, I have been able to do it a number of times, with lower visibility conditions.

I do enjoy the environmental rendering of the game: the moon and stars, weather and sky conditions, are beautifully rendered. I was chasing a convoy the other night in which I had torpedoed and heavily damaged a T-3 tanker. She was alight and slowly falling behind. I followed her from a distance, waiting for the convoy to haul ahead sufficiently that I would have enough time to close on her before sunrise, finish her with my deck gun and then use the remaining hours or minutes of night to run like a fox with a chicken in its mouth. From about 14,000 metres I could make out an orangey red glow shimmering on the water; it was my homing beacon. Judging the time fortuitous, I ran it at all ahead full. As I was doing so, the wind and waves picked up and it began to rain heavily. I began to lose sight of her [good thing I used the heading-to-view button "=" to set my course to her, and not one that would take me to an off-beam position or I could easily have lost sight of her. When we got to about 5,000 metres I was losing UZO lock; it was only the occasional flaring of flames that broke through the gloom that allowed me to see her. When we engaged, my crew had difficulty seeing her, so at times, until I closed to less than 1,000 metres, I personally jumped to the deck gun view "F10" and took a few shots myself. The waves began to get higher and I was wondering if I was going to have a repeat performance of a previouse engagement, below. My luck held and we were able to finish her off, then used the horrid conditions to make our escape.

In a previous engagement, as I was rounding the top of the U.K. just to the northwest of the Orkneys, my bridge watch called out ship sightings. What hove into view made me salivate: five unescorted merchantmen. My plan was to take out a couple of them with torpedoes, then surface and gun the smaller vessels, including a schooner in the lead position. A small tanker refused to sink, so I surfaced to give chase. When I surfaced, I was between the tanker and a tugboat at the stern of the group. I used the flak gun to sink the tug, then began to rake over the tanker, strafing her command deck and prop area. I don't know if flak guns aimed at the propeller/rudder area will actually cripple a vessel in SH3, but I keep trying. During this time, the waves began to whip up and gunnery became more challenging. Suddenly, my guns stopped working. I was mystified at first until I asked for weather conditions and received the report that it was too rough to man the guns. Denied! I tried twice to sink that tanker with precious torpedoes, but the stormy seas [and perhaps early war unreliability of torpedoes [well done whoever modded that!] caused them to run too deep and I concluded Fate had determined this tough little ship should live. I marked the position of the cripple on the map and moved on. Perhaps if the weather lifted soon I could return to finish her off, but the storm raged for days and each day took me further away. It would not be prudent to linger in the vicinity, as I am sure Maritime Command would dispatch air patrols at dawn. A Kriegsmarine salute to that valiant crew and their tough little ship!

:salute:

A couple of times recently [late 1940 to early 1941] on my last two patrols, what seemed to be innocent, unarmed freighters sprung surprises on me when I surfaced to finish them off. What seemed like harmless cases and crates on deck suddenly sprung open to reveal guns. Twice I toughed it out, using deck and flak guns to suppress them, but I did take some damage in one engagement, losing 5% hull integrity. I do not know if these are Q-ships in the game, or simply cleverly camouflaged defensive means, but to whomever the modder responsible for that, another salute. Fellow Kaleuns, beware of this possible death trap.

One thing that would be nice would be if the game could be modded to allow your crew to use the flak guns on non-aircraft targets. I am, though, thinking that this is something that game code will not allow. Still, I am hopeful that some clever chaps out there will work it one day. I have read about the wolf packs in LSH2015, but haven't seen one yet. I keep calling in my convoy sightings [which sometimes bring an escort towards me, coincidence, or is the RN deploying radio detectors at sea?] but I have so far been told to attack alone. I guess we don't have enough boats at sea yet.

I do not think it is necessarily unrealistic for the escorts to temporarily leave a convoy to hunt for you. Early in the war, there were so few U-boats at sea that multiple attacks were not frequent. Odds were that only one boat was in contact with the convoy, so they could for a short time concentrate on a U-boat hunt, but not for long. Early war escorts tended to be slower, as the fastest destroyers and frigates were assigned mainly to fleet duty. This meant the slower and less competent vessels were assigned convoy duty. Due to their slower speeds, it would take them longer to catch up again with the convoy, so the time they could spend hunting an attacker was more limited. If you were escorting an eight knot convoy with a twelve knot vessel, it did not take long before the convoy pulled ahead and you would then need more time to catch up with it again.

Most of my attacks are made from as close to 90 degrees as possible. I believe this allows me the best shot and the lowest possibility of torpedoes deflecting. It allows a target vessel less possibility of evasion, as with a broad side approach of a torpedo, especially from close range, the opening up of the angle is minimized say compared to a shot taken from 60 degrees off the perpendicular. Because I seem quite adept at convoy infiltration, at least early war, I find I get to set up the shots I want, not the desperate ones that result from a less than ideal angle. With practice you will pick it up. As you are racing around a convoy, take time to observe the movements of the escorts, especially those closest to the ship or ships you want to attack. If you watch them long enough, you will see patterns. Try to time your infiltration for when they loop away in another direction. Still, they do randomly seem to move around, so nothing is 100% predictable.

Recently I had decided I would try to take out the lead escort, which would leave a huge gap in the screen which I could exploit later. She had seemed to settle down on a course and I had her lined up with an electric torpedo, door open, and was about to fire when it decided to sortie off on another scan, luckily away from me. I find deer are like that too, when I am hunting. They seem to have an inner radar that lets them know danger is close. Anyhow, I decided not to take a desperate shot and save my eels for the convoy. If you have lots of torpedoes and reason to think you have good odds of maintaining contact with the convoy [good weather, distance away from land based aviation, etc.] then it may be worthwhile taking out an escort, maybe two, which will leave a gap in the perimeter that could be exploited later. On the other hand, if it is during the time of bad torpedoes, can you afford to lose a few on futile escort attacks, which could get you killed, when your priority is sinking enemy merchantmen? Tough choices, but that's why you are the Kaleun and earn the big marks.

I am not sure what you mean by "distance to the first convoy lane" but I think you are referring to the distance from the outermost ships of a convoy. I am a fan of getting inside a convoy whenever possible. Because the lower value ships are placed to the edges of a convoy and the juicy targets in the core, I find beam attacks difficult to set up. There is a high possibility of your torpedoes hitting the outer ships. You need to close the distance on your choice targets, as the less time the torpedo needs to run, the less likely it will hit a different vessel.

On the other hand, the outer ships also tend to be shallower draft vessels. Sometimes I can exploit this by firing deep runners that should sail under these shallower draft vessels but still hit the intended victim. For example, if the outer ship has a draft of 5 or 6 metres but your target has a draft of 10 or more, you could set your eels to say, 8 or deeper, and expect them not to hit the lesser targets. Make sure, though, if you are trying this, not to use magnetic pistols or they could all go boom under a lousy 2,000 tonner. I have found that impact pistols are more reliable earlier in the war, so I use them for most of my shots. If I am forced to attack from an angle, I will consider a magnetic pistol. If the target is large enough that I fire several eels, I may set one with a magnetic pistol. Weather is also a factor; magnetic pistols may not work in high seas. Because the target pitches up and down, deep runners with magnetic pistols may not go off, as the ship "hops" up when the torpedo runs under it. You may have set it to go off 1 metre or so below the keel, but at the moment of closing the ship has jumped up 3 or 4 metres.

I believe the recognition manuals accurate enough to use them as a guide when setting my torpedoes. If the seas are calm enough and I want to use a magnetic pistol, I will set it to run about 1 metre deeper than the draft of the vessel. If seas are rough, I use impact pistols set to run at about 3 metres. If attacking an escort, the weather is important to me. They are shallower draft vessels so magnetic pistols may run well under them. Waste of a torpedo. I try to use only electrics on warships, especially escorts. If you use a steamer they can sometimes ses them, evade, and now they know where you are. If an electric fish misses, they won't even know how lucky they were.

I hope these tips help. It took me a long time to learn all of this. From hard experience I have learned what works for me and it helps me to stay alive, most of the time. Over two careers so far in LSH2015 I have only been depth charge attacked in one engagement. Minor damage; I was deep enough at the time to evade. Still, when you hear that ping, your heart comes up in your throat. Luckily for me it was a small trawler and he didn't seem to have a lot of ordnance, or he was ordered to get back to the convoy. He soon hauled off and we survived.

[K-61]

Well to every rule there is an occasional exception!:O: I consider a cruiser a capital ship...and there is the HMS Sheffield Southampton sub class of the Town-class (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town-class_cruiser_(1936))cruisers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruiser) (with stainless steel fittings) clearly in the Artic/Murmansk bound convoy. HMS Sheffield engaged and sank German destroyer Friedrich Eckoldt (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_destroyer_Z16_Friedrich_Eckoldt), while also damaging the cruiser Admiral Hipper (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_cruiser_Admiral_Hipper) in the Battle of the Barent's Sea. Pic or it didn't happen: HMS Sheffield at starboard- front on convoy https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7e/HMS_Sheffield_convoy.jpggood reading here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_convoys_of_World_War_II (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_convoys_of_World_War_II) On yet another occasion : The deterrence value of a battleship in protecting a convoy was also dramatically illustrated when the German light battleships (referred by some as battlecruisers) Scharnhorst (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_battleship_Scharnhorst) and Gneisenau (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_battleship_Gneisenau), mounting 11 in (28 cm) guns, came upon an eastbound British convoy (HX-106 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HX-106), with 41 ships) in the North Atlantic on February 8, 1941. When the Germans detected the slow but well-protected battleship HMS Ramillies (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Ramillies_(07)) escorting the convoy, (clearly at convoy speed) they fled the scene rather than risk damage from her 15 in (38 cm) guns. On yet another convoy operation:
On 8 February 1941 Ramillies was on duty in the North Atlantic Ocean (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Atlantic_Ocean), escorting Convoy HX 106 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convoy_HX_106) comprising 41 ships eastbound from Halifax, Nova Scotia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_Halifax) to Liverpool (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liverpool), England, when the two German battleships Scharnhorst (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_battleship_Scharnhorst) and Gneisenau (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_battleship_Gneisenau) appeared over the horizon. The German squadron was under the command of Admiral Günther Lütjens (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%BCnther_L%C3%BCtjens). The captain of the Scharnhorst offered to draw off the Ramillies, so that the Gneisenau could sink the merchant ships. It is unlikely, however, that Ramillies‍ '​ captain would have left the convoy he was protecting to chase the much faster German ship. Further, Ramillies was armed with the excellent 15 inch gun (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BL_15_inch_Mk_I_naval_gun) and was capable of doing significant damage to the German vessels. In the event, Lütjens strictly followed Adolf Hitler (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler)'s directive not to engage enemy capital ships. The presence of Ramillies was sufficient to deter the attack.
On 24 May 1941, Ramillies, with Captain Arthur D. Read (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Arthur_D._Read&action=edit&redlink=1) commanding, was south of Cape Farewell (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Farewell,_Greenland), Greenland (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland), on duty escorting Convoy HX 127 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_War_II_convoys) eastbound from Halifax. Some 57 merchant ships were in the group bound for Liverpool, with the most common cargoes being, oil, aviation spirit, lubricants, gasoline, lumber, grain, steel, sugar, scrap iron and pig iron. Two ships carried general cargo, and there were single ships carrying molasses, trucks and cereals. Other escort vessels were designed to meet the submarine menace, and included a modern Canadian destroyer, HMCS Ottawa (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMCS_Ottawa), the Indian navy sloop, HMIS Sutlej (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMIS_Sutlej_(U95)), an obsolete ex-US Navy destroyer, HMS Salisbury (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Salisbury_(I52)), an escort destroyer, HMS Hambledon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Hambledon_(L37)), the corvettes HMS Larkspur (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=HMS_Larkspur_(K82)&action=edit&redlink=1), HMS Begonia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Begonia_(K66)) and several other smaller ships. If anything, Ramillies would have been a liability dealing with submarines. She was there as insurance against attack by surface raiders.
If Ramillies had to face a major surface attack, the two destroyers were probably the only escorts of value to her.
The new German battleship Bismarck (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_battleship_Bismarck) broke out into the North Atlantic after sinking the battlecruiser (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battlecruiser) HMS Hood (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Hood_(51)), Britain's largest warship, in the Battle of the Denmark Strait (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Denmark_Strait). Ramillies was well east of Newfoundland (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newfoundland_(island)) to the southwest of Bismarck, and if she had continued her raid, Ramillies was all that the Royal Navy had to stop her from ravaging the sealanes off North America (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_America). On 24 May 1941 the Admiralty (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Admiralty) ordered Ramillies to leave the convoy and steam on a course to intercept the enemy ship. Bismarck had sustained some damage in the action against the Prince of Wales, and opted to make for France for repairs, instead of continuing on a convoy raiding mission.
It was a measure of the desperation of the Royal Navy that such an old ship was sent out alone to intercept one of the world's most potent battleships which was supported by the heavy cruiser Prinz Eugen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_cruiser_Prinz_Eugen). [wiki] Fortunately for her, she was not put to the test. In fact the capital ships on convoy duty were expendable; a hard fact of war.... https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d6/15inchgunsatImperialWarMuseumLondon.jpg/220px-15inchgunsatImperialWarMuseumLondon.jpg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:15inchgunsatImperialWarMuseumLondon.jpg)HMS Ramillies' excellent 15" gun at British Imperial War Museum


Thank you for that reply. I can see you put a lot of work into it. I also love the pic of the guns at the IWM. I've been there and have a picture of those guns; it's in an album somewhere and I think I may be in the picture, but I can't remember. Those things are huge! A couple of years ago I flew to Hawaii for my son's wedding. While at Pearl Harbor I toured the Iowa. Massive guns. You would not want to be on the deck when they go off. I believe I read somewhere once that when BB's are about to fire their main guns, they sound an alarm, so those nearby can prepare themselves.

Respectfully, I must disagree for the main part. You provided a number of references, but most of them don't prove the point that the large escorts sailed within the slower convoy box. I am willing to believe that it happened a few times, but rarely. A large warship can escort a convoy without being in the box, just as fighters escorted bombers, but did not actually fly inside the bomber formation. They flew off to the sides and weaved back and forth, just as convoy escorts do. The point of contention seems to be how close they were. While it may have happened that a battleship sailed in the box, it still seems suicidal for it do so. A BB doing six knots, even inside a convoy, would be more vulnerable than if it sailed alone outside the box, nearby, but doing say 20 knots and altering course frequently.

Large warships tried to sail with ASW ships. They cannot attack submarines, unless surfaced, like smaller vessels can. A battleship is too large and unwieldy for depth charging subs, for example. Ideally, valuable ships would sail in formation to take advantage of ASW and anti-aircraft fire of the group.

Occasionally, large vessels would sail alone, depending on conditions and mission tasking. Think of the Indianapolis taking the first atomic warhead to Tinian in the Pacific. Also, Force Z, which was nailed by the IJN in the Indian Ocean in the early days of the war with Japan. It was very important at times for capital ships to sail with convoys, to protect against raiders or the surface threats presented by ships such as Bismarck and Tirpitz. Nonetheless, they could still fulfill their mission without being leashed to their charges.

[K-61]

Well to every rule there is an occasional exception!:O: I consider a cruiser a capital ship...and there is the HMS Sheffield Southampton sub class of the Town-class (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town-class_cruiser_(1936))cruisers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruiser) (with stainless steel fittings) clearly in the Artic/Murmansk bound convoy. HMS Sheffield engaged and sank German destroyer Friedrich Eckoldt (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_destroyer_Z16_Friedrich_Eckoldt), while also damaging the cruiser Admiral Hipper (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_cruiser_Admiral_Hipper) in the Battle of the Barent's Sea. Pic or it didn't happen: HMS Sheffield at starboard- front on convoy https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7e/HMS_Sheffield_convoy.jpggood reading here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_convoys_of_World_War_II (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_convoys_of_World_War_II) On yet another occasion : The deterrence value of a battleship in protecting a convoy was also dramatically illustrated when the German light battleships (referred by some as battlecruisers) Scharnhorst (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_battleship_Scharnhorst) and Gneisenau (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_battleship_Gneisenau), mounting 11 in (28 cm) guns, came upon an eastbound British convoy (HX-106 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HX-106), with 41 ships) in the North Atlantic on February 8, 1941. When the Germans detected the slow but well-protected battleship HMS Ramillies (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Ramillies_(07)) escorting the convoy, (clearly at convoy speed) they fled the scene rather than risk damage from her 15 in (38 cm) guns. On yet another convoy operation:
On 8 February 1941 Ramillies was on duty in the North Atlantic Ocean (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Atlantic_Ocean), escorting Convoy HX 106 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convoy_HX_106) comprising 41 ships eastbound from Halifax, Nova Scotia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_Halifax) to Liverpool (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liverpool), England, when the two German battleships Scharnhorst (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_battleship_Scharnhorst) and Gneisenau (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_battleship_Gneisenau) appeared over the horizon. The German squadron was under the command of Admiral Günther Lütjens (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%BCnther_L%C3%BCtjens). The captain of the Scharnhorst offered to draw off the Ramillies, so that the Gneisenau could sink the merchant ships. It is unlikely, however, that Ramillies‍ '​ captain would have left the convoy he was protecting to chase the much faster German ship. Further, Ramillies was armed with the excellent 15 inch gun (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BL_15_inch_Mk_I_naval_gun) and was capable of doing significant damage to the German vessels. In the event, Lütjens strictly followed Adolf Hitler (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler)'s directive not to engage enemy capital ships. The presence of Ramillies was sufficient to deter the attack.
On 24 May 1941, Ramillies, with Captain Arthur D. Read (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Arthur_D._Read&action=edit&redlink=1) commanding, was south of Cape Farewell (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Farewell,_Greenland), Greenland (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland), on duty escorting Convoy HX 127 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_War_II_convoys) eastbound from Halifax. Some 57 merchant ships were in the group bound for Liverpool, with the most common cargoes being, oil, aviation spirit, lubricants, gasoline, lumber, grain, steel, sugar, scrap iron and pig iron. Two ships carried general cargo, and there were single ships carrying molasses, trucks and cereals. Other escort vessels were designed to meet the submarine menace, and included a modern Canadian destroyer, HMCS Ottawa (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMCS_Ottawa), the Indian navy sloop, HMIS Sutlej (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMIS_Sutlej_(U95)), an obsolete ex-US Navy destroyer, HMS Salisbury (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Salisbury_(I52)), an escort destroyer, HMS Hambledon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Hambledon_(L37)), the corvettes HMS Larkspur (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=HMS_Larkspur_(K82)&action=edit&redlink=1), HMS Begonia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Begonia_(K66)) and several other smaller ships. If anything, Ramillies would have been a liability dealing with submarines. She was there as insurance against attack by surface raiders.
If Ramillies had to face a major surface attack, the two destroyers were probably the only escorts of value to her.
The new German battleship Bismarck (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_battleship_Bismarck) broke out into the North Atlantic after sinking the battlecruiser (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battlecruiser) HMS Hood (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Hood_(51)), Britain's largest warship, in the Battle of the Denmark Strait (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Denmark_Strait). Ramillies was well east of Newfoundland (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newfoundland_(island)) to the southwest of Bismarck, and if she had continued her raid, Ramillies was all that the Royal Navy had to stop her from ravaging the sealanes off North America (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_America). On 24 May 1941 the Admiralty (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Admiralty) ordered Ramillies to leave the convoy and steam on a course to intercept the enemy ship. Bismarck had sustained some damage in the action against the Prince of Wales, and opted to make for France for repairs, instead of continuing on a convoy raiding mission.
It was a measure of the desperation of the Royal Navy that such an old ship was sent out alone to intercept one of the world's most potent battleships which was supported by the heavy cruiser Prinz Eugen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_cruiser_Prinz_Eugen). [wiki] Fortunately for her, she was not put to the test. In fact the capital ships on convoy duty were expendable; a hard fact of war.... https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d6/15inchgunsatImperialWarMuseumLondon.jpg/220px-15inchgunsatImperialWarMuseumLondon.jpg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:15inchgunsatImperialWarMuseumLondon.jpg)HMS Ramillies' excellent 15" gun at British Imperial War Museum


Thank you for that reply. I can see you put a lot of work into it. I also love the pic of the guns at the IWM. I've been there and have a picture of those guns; it's in an album somewhere and I think I may be in the picture, but I can't remember. Those things are huge! A couple of years ago I flew to Hawaii for my son's wedding. While at Pearl Harbor I toured the Iowa. Massive guns. You would not want to be on the deck when they go off. I believe I read somewhere once that when BB's are about to fire their main guns, they sound an alarm, so those nearby can prepare themselves.

Respectfully, I must disagree for the main part. You provided a number of references, but most of them don't prove the point that the large escorts sailed within the slower convoy box. I am willing to believe that it happened a few times, but rarely. A large warship can escort a convoy without being in the box, just as fighters escorted bombers, but did not actually fly inside the bomber formation. They flew off to the sides and weaved back and forth, just as convoy escorts do. The point of contention seems to be how close they were. While it may have happened that a battleship sailed in the box, it still seems suicidal for it do so. A BB doing six knots, even inside a convoy, would be more vulnerable than if it sailed alone outside the box, nearby, but doing say 20 knots and altering course frequently.

Large warships tried to sail with ASW ships. They cannot attack submarines, unless surfaced, like smaller vessels can. A battleship is too large and unwieldy for depth charging subs, for example. Ideally, valuable ships would sail in formation to take advantage of ASW and anti-aircraft fire of the group.

Occasionally, large vessels would sail alone, depending on conditions and mission tasking. Think of the Indianapolis taking the first atomic warhead to Tinian in the Pacific. Also, Force Z, which was nailed by the IJN in the Indian Ocean in the early days of the war with Japan. It was very important at times for capital ships to sail with convoys, to protect against raiders or the surface threats presented by ships such as Bismarck and Tirpitz. Nonetheless, they could still fulfill their mission without being leashed to their charges.

[THEBERBSTER]

Hi Randy
Wow, that is an epistle and a half packed with info.

I do not use the “No Stabilize View” setting in the difficulty settings.
I am struggling locking on as I said at times which is understandable due to the prevailing weather.
Enabling that difficulty setting surely would make it a waste of time attacking where you have a high wind setting?
The game seems to favour heavy seas but that may well be down to the season the game is in.

A useful tip I learned was if you are attacking on the surface in bad weather instead of using the UZO use the attack scope’s height to get above the waves.

Referring to guns the flak gunner is a bit trigger happy and if the icon is set to “fire at will” he will do exactly that on friendless as well.
In daylight coming into and out of my base Lorient I always have the flak guns manned.
Lorient has 2 ME109’s patrolling constantly at low level.
My flak gunners should know better not to practice on them.
As I came out of the bunker he was already trying to fire at them but was hitting the bunker wall.
Not good at all but an easy fix.

I have not come across your “Q” ships but I am noticing a few more ships now carrying a gun on the stern.
My current patrol date is January 14th 1941

I want to try and use your attack procedures on convoys in my game.
I have never fired a torpedo for example closer than 700 metres, yet you have been a lot closer.
With those close firing shots do you have to use a slow speed?

I am also taking note of how you use the ship drafts.
I usually fire 1 metre above the draft listing.
I do not know how accurate the settings are between the draft dial numbers whether they use accurate figures or are rounded up or down.

One question you answered for me was the depth setting when set to magnetic.
Would you use magnetic pistols on both types of torpedoes?
I can imagine its use would be good when firing at an angle when you are between convoy lanes.

Have you seen this technique?
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1006907&postcount=163 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1006907&postcount=163)

Patrol 12 finished well with 17 ships 73,000 plus tons.
The NB days changeover also worked without any problems.
I did it in the file although I could have used SH3Commander.

Patrol 13 January 1st 1941 did not start well, in fact at the time it did not start at all.
My SH3.exe application disappeared into oblivion.
I used the Windows uninstall that has a repair function in it.
It was just a case of inserting the dvd in the drive and waiting for the missing file/s to be re-installed.

I have an engine upgrade at a cost of 1,500 renown from a GW to a Man type.
It seems to add about 1 knot to the speed of each telegraph setting.

I have noticed that my N.O. only has 1 qualification so I need to use this, and the next patrol to max him out.
Did you say that SH3Commander allows you to make more than 1 qualification?

My patrol area is way out to DR82 so it looks like another refit again.
The downside is that you cannot choose your torpedo layout.
Have you ever selected your own patrol grid area using SH3Commander?

Nothing happened during my patrol in DR82 and looking at the surrounding vast area what to do next?
I decided to make the long journey over towards Freetown as there are two reachable places where I can refit.
450km away from Freetown I got jumped by 2 aircraft and was dive bombed but luckily they missed as I was crash diving.
That new engine seemed faster getting me down.
No problems since with Ahead Flank when I have needed it.
My last visit to Freetown I never saw any aircraft.
I cannot man the flak guns as the seas are high.
On this outward journey BF71 was like a mill pond and I was able to use the deck gun.

Do you find the night view strange?
I cannot make out just how really dark it is supposed to be.
Is it really that light to aid the gamer?
In SH5 night time is a gradual process until it is really pitch black and you know exactly what to expect.

Thanks for your useful tips and look forward to your further exploits.
Incidentally what is your current patrol date?
I guess I am still a bit ahead of you.
Have you still got the VIIB?
21 torps in the IXB and loads of fuel.

Peter

[K-61]

Peter,

Glad you liked my post and found it helfpful. More questions? Let me take a stab at them.

No stabilize view? I bet they wish they had such an option in real life. That bad weather hindered operations in real life, likewise it should be a challenge in-game. Have you ever seen the film Das Boot? Remember the scene where the Kaleun loses a fast freighter in the storm? Gives you an idea how bad weather was a real challenge. Not much to do in those gales except hang on and ride them out. The sub men did have the odd respite when they dove for a few hours, deep enough to not feel the surface swells.

I cannot imagine the horrors experienced by the merchant navy, well, all duty at sea come to thnk of it. My Uncle Jim, from Newfoundland, was a merchant mariner in WW2. He twice surived ships lost to U-boat torpedoes. In one of his sinkings he and the other survivors were sequestered for security reasons, I guess. The family had already been notified that he was lost at sea. What a joyous ooccasion when Uncle Jim turned up alive!


I like the idea of using the attack scope in an unconventional manner. Don't know if it was ever used that way, but have at it. Think outside the box, as they say. It seems like a good idea that any increase in elevation of the observer's eye would be helpful. Along these lines, there was a little known device the U-boats tried. I forget the name of the thing, but it was a kind o gyrocopter that the U-boat towed, sort of like a tethered hang glider that people use today recreationally. A crewman would sit in this thing and the air flow from the U-boat's speed would lift him into the air, where he would use his altitude and binoculars to search for ships. Not sure how many of these were employed, but I have seen photos of them, not pulling anyone's leg. Does anybody know off hand what that thing was called?

I saw somewhere in the SH3 section of this forum where somebody wrote a change to one of the game's files so that your crew would automatically man the flak guns and shoot at closing aircraft. It seemed an easy fix to something that bugs me, but I don't know if I can use it in LSH2015. I find I lose so much time dragging the flak gunner[s] to the gun[s] and then clicking this and that to assign orders. By the time I have done all of this, I could have crash dived, or, worse, the planes get extra time to set up their attack on me. Has anyone here done this, and how does it work out?

My "knife fighting range" tactics, glad they are inspiring you. On my second most recent patrol I got into a fat convoy at night, with low visibility. Slipped in between an outer column and an in inner one to line up a Glorious Class CV! I slammed all four bow torpedoes into her at just over 300 metres range. Yes, that is close, but due to the tight lane spacing, you have to get really close or you risk getting run over by ships coming up your backside. After successful evasion, I worked my way around again and nailed HMS Norfolk. Those were the only two ships I got on that patrol, due to what happened next... Taking advantage of the bad weather, I tried to conduct a surface attack with my last couple of torpedoes. I closed in from the outer port side and lined up a C2. I fired from about 1,000 metres this time and turned away to try to make a surfaced retreat, when the lead escort loomed out of the mist and began unloading on me. I crash dived but took damage, which took hours and hours to fix. We were happy to go back to France, but Onkel Karl was worried about us, since he had no contact with us: our radio antenna was destroyed, so we had to sail home without comms. Here's the entry in my personnel file, generated by SH3 Commander:
　
29.1.41.1204Patrol 4
U-99, 7th Flotilla
Left at: January 29, 1941, 12:04
From: St. Nazaire
Mission Orders: Patrol grid AL2910.2.41.1931Grid AL 6Ship sunk! HMS Courageous (HMS CV Glorious-Cl), 26518 GRT/ts
Crew: 1610. Crew lost: 2892152Grid AM 17Ship sunk! HMS Norfolk (HMS CA Norfolk), 13300 GRT/ts
Crew: 912. Crew lost: 27316.2.41.1414Patrol results
Crew losses: 0
Ships sunk: 2
Aircraft destroyed: 0
Patrol tonage: 39818 GRT/ts

I got the Knight's Cross and Oak Leaves for that one. I find that the game does not assign you all your medals at once, but tends to "save" them up and gives them to you later. I have had a successful patrol, and got nothing or a lowly IC2, then gone out on my next patrol, returned to base with no tonnage due to damage, then I get a KC. I guess it keeps track of what you should be getting but rations it out. I find it galling when I, as the Kaleun, have a glorious patrol and I am given IC's to dole out to my crew, but none for me. Yes, I have the "itchy neck" syndrome that some German military men suffered from. Well, there are men like that in all militaries.

Answering your question about close shots and speed; you have to be careful to bleed off speed so you don't get closer than 300 metres, or else your torpedoes will not arm. Some players in the past have been confused by this, as I could discern from their posts. The torpedo has to run 300 metres in the water to arm. This is not the same thing as range to target at time of firing. If you are over 300 metres away and closing, and the target is moving toward you, relatively speaking, then it is possible that the torpedo will not have run 300 metres before impact. Dud time. On the other hand, you can fire a shot from 200 metres at a ship that is quickly pulling away from you and have it go boom, because the target has pulled away and the torpedo actually did travel at least 300 metres to arm. Here is another hazard, for those who want to take a "down the throat" shot at an attacking escort. As you are both approaching each other, you have to fire from more than 300 metres away, due to the closure rate. If you are facing the escort, he is coming at you and you fire at 300, the torpedo will dud. You may need to fire from over 400 to compensate for this. If it doesn't work out, he has you at scope depth and will likely maintain ASDIC contact right up to the moment of attack. Not a situation with high odds of survival.

If I slip into a convoy, or get close to any target, I make sure that my forward progress does not take me too close. Your boat can glide for some distance. If I find I am getting close too quickly I will throw it into astern and bleed off speed quickly. If you are going to get inside convoys, you had best maintain situational awareness or you can get rammed by a merchantman. It has happened to me a few times, until I smartened up.

Ship drafts. If using impact pistols I set the running depth at least two metres above the draft listing. Just about every ship in the game has a rounded hull underneath. If you hit too deeply, you risk a deflection without detonation. I am not that worried about setting them too deep, as any hole below the waterline will cause flooding. I don't rely on magnetic pistols in anything but relatively calm seas. My usual practice is to set them about 0.5 to 1.5 under the keel, usually as close to 1 as I can drag the dial. Mags are great for off-angle shots, or what I call Hail Marys. I've enjoyed success from dead astern a few times, but long ago. Haven't tried that recently. Mags are also good to use agains ships that are zigzagging. You don't have to worry about hitting at just the right angle. If you are close enough when you fire, they don't have time to dodge out of the way. Except that one "easy" shot in the naval acadamy. I swear that ship has Star Trek technology, the way it suddenly accelerates and pulls out of the way.

I use magnetic pistols on both types of torpedoes, but I have a hunch the G7e's are more reliable. I haven't kept a journal to get precise figures, just a gut feeling. At least in the early war years, magnetics are not so reliable. If I am using them on a G7A steamer, I fire as close as possible if visibility is good so they have less time to react. Actually, that goes for impact pistols, too. On my most recent patrol I lined up a double shot, on a T-3 tanker in an inner column and a fat freighter closer to my firing position. I fired two electric torpedoes first, since they are slower, but also because they are stealthier. They need more time to get to their target, so I fire them first. Then after what I judged to be about the right moment, I launched my steam torpedoes at the freigher. One of the G7E's was a dud or deep runner, but the two steamers were reliable.

To my satisfaction I had three nearly simultaneous explosions on two ships in adjacent columns. What a sweet feeling. The tanker was crippled and slowed down; I finished her off in a surface gunnery attack hours later when she fell astern.

Years ago, I managed to hit two battleships in a similar fashion. I had slipped inside the escort screen, or to be more exact, I had submerged in such a manner that they pulled up to me. There is no way you can penetrate the screen of a fast moving task force while submerged; the key is to dive and maneuver in such a way that the targets pull up to you. I fired my forward torpedoes at the BB in front of me, and let rip with my stern tube and slowed down the BB pulling up behind me.

Then the fun began. After hours of evasion I surfaced and followed the limping BB, at a prudent distance. It was hurt enough that my top speed was faster than hers and I was able to work my way around to get into place for a submerged attack from the opposite beam to the first attack. She fell to my torpedoes, making that one of my most memorable task force engagements.

Auto targeting helps. I know there are methods to teach you how to do manual but I just haven't tried them yet. To compensate and simulate that I am actually doing so, I take my time when attacking, making many observations on the run in. I may learn manual one day, but I remember trying to do it as described in the game manual, with the stop watch. Trying to line up that stadimator was interesting. I know in real life many captains eyeballed their solutions There was one particularly brilliant British sub commander in the Med who did calculus calculations in his head, and hit his target. I think people like that are virtuosos.

Finally, regarding qualifications, you can assign multiples to an officer via SH3 Commander. Up to three, and they all are recognized in the game. I assign one to each NCO, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that you can give a second qualifcation to the senior most NCO and it will take effect in-game. I assign them to seamen, but the game does not recognis them in terms of compartment efficiency. My reason for assigning them to seamen is for "marking" purposes. I have so many for helm, so many for engines, torpedoes, etc. I like a well managed crew.

If you use SH3 Commander's option of crew transfers, this can mess up the "marking" system I describe above. Not to worry, once you have replaced the jailed, shot or AWOL crew members, you can exit out of the game, launch Commander and immediately assign the new guy[s] a qualification for their first patrol, reload the game and away you go.

Whew! That took some time. I composed it in Word Pad, since I remember the heartbreak of losing long winded posts in the past, just recently in fact. Just copy and paste from WP into the forum window and hit enter and it is done!

Hope this helps, Peter. Any more questions or observations, I am all ears.

Randy

[UKönig]

Off the British home islands and the US eastern seaboard, the concentration of shipping made it relatively easy to find and attack. But when the boats had been forced farther afield, their poor range of vision proved a serious liability.
When a 'pack' of boats were trying to intercept a convoy, this difficulty could be partially overcome with some of the boats racing ahead to act as scouts, but here too, the inadequate vision obtained from the low-lying u-boat bridge made it difficult, if not impossible, to keep a close enough watch over a wide enough area.
Sometimes, a lookout would be raised in a bosun's chair attached to the periscope, but this naturally entailed a loss of diving speed, and really could only be done in areas where aircraft were unlikely to be encountered. The same disadvantage applied to the Water Wagtail (Bachstelze), a one man observation 'kite', which was towed behind the surfaced boat, as such, this contrivance was used only on rare occasions while operating in the South Atlantic.

[K-61]

Off the British home islands and the US eastern seaboard, the concentration of shipping made it relatively easy to find and attack. But when the boats had been forced farther afield, their poor range of vision proved a serious liability.
When a 'pack' of boats were trying to intercept a convoy, this difficulty could be partially overcome with some of the boats racing ahead to act as scouts, but here too, the inadequate vision obtained from the low-lying u-boat bridge made it difficult, if not impossible, to keep a close enough watch over a wide enough area.
Sometimes, a lookout would be raised in a bosun's chair attached to the periscope, but this naturally entailed a loss of diving speed, and really could only be done in areas where aircraft were unlikely to be encountered. The same disadvantage applied to the Water Wagtail (Bachstelze), a one man observation 'kite', which was towed behind the surfaced boat, as such, this contrivance was used only on rare occasions while operating in the South Atlantic.

Thanks for the name! :salute:

Here is an article about it at uboat.net, including photos of it, plus the chair you mentioned:

http://uboat.net/technical/bachstelze.htm

[UKönig]

You're very welcome, glad I could be of help!

[THEBERBSTER]

Hi Randy
I hope some of the other guys are enjoying your posts as much as I am.

It’s a while since I last saw Das Boot and I have various versions of it.

I think that gyrocopter thingy must have been called “Death Trap”
You can imagine “aircraft 255ᴼ” “alarm” “What about Fritz”

Your torpedo ranges are quite intriguing and something I am going to follow up myself.
When you are attacking a convoy between the lanes do you have preference to which way you are facing.
Do you prefer the target coming towards you or going past you?

Was there a particular reason why you chose St.Nazaire as a base?

Have you had any promotions yet?
I have had two so far.
Kapitänlieutnant Patrol 7 now Korvettenkapitän Patrol 12

I notice that when select a torpedo tube and press Q to open it and then you go to another tube to open a second one the first tube has to be opened again before you can fire it.
Is that something you are experiencing or am I not doing something?
How would I go about setting up a salvo?

Regarding targeting I use Manual TDC but the way it takes the Speed after taking two ranges with the stadimeter is so inaccurate at times and all over the place.
I still prefer to use the 3 minutes and 15 second routine and enter it manually.
If I do not have the time or I cannot get the stadimeter on the target properly because of the weather then I let the WO do the calculation if I can manage to keep the target locked.

Your explanation on qualifications was useful as I have one officer who has only a helmsman qualification and I would like him to have three qualifications.
Are the crew bonus points important in the game?
I am not quite sure what is happening in the command room.
I have two officers and one PO who are helmsmen.
That should mean that I have three helmsmen available.
If I move one of the officers away from his post I am told that I do not have two at the helm.

Crew transfers are not an issue for me as after a few patrols your crew points etc., exceed any new crew member available.

Like you I use word to compose on as it far easier than trying to see what you have written on Subsim.

I hope my questions etc., are not impacting on your gaming time.
Personally I am quite happy to give up some evening gaming time to correspond whereas I can usually use the morning and can grab a 20 minute slot in the afternoon while my wife is having her lunch before she uses the computer again to look through and reply to Subsim posts.
I sometimes use the Ipad if it is urgent but it is frustrating when you can easily sometimes lose a typed response on it.

Peter

[K-61]

Hi Randy
I hope some of the other guys are enjoying your posts as much as I am.

It’s a while since I last saw Das Boot and I have various versions of it.

I think that gyrocopter thingy must have been called “Death Trap”
You can imagine “aircraft 255ᴼ” “alarm” “What about Fritz”

Your torpedo ranges are quite intriguing and something I am going to follow up myself.
When you are attacking a convoy between the lanes do you have preference to which way you are facing.
Do you prefer the target coming towards you or going past you?

Was there a particular reason why you chose St.Nazaire as a base?

Have you had any promotions yet?
I have had two so far.
Kapitänlieutnant Patrol 7 now Korvettenkapitän Patrol 12

I notice that when select a torpedo tube and press Q to open it and then you go to another tube to open a second one the first tube has to be opened again before you can fire it.
Is that something you are experiencing or am I not doing something?
How would I go about setting up a salvo?

Regarding targeting I use Manual TDC but the way it takes the Speed after taking two ranges with the stadimeter is so inaccurate at times and all over the place.
I still prefer to use the 3 minutes and 15 second routine and enter it manually.
If I do not have the time or I cannot get the stadimeter on the target properly because of the weather then I let the WO do the calculation if I can manage to keep the target locked.

Your explanation on qualifications was useful as I have one officer who has only a helmsman qualification and I would like him to have three qualifications.
Are the crew bonus points important in the game?
I am not quite sure what is happening in the command room.
I have two officers and one PO who are helmsmen.
That should mean that I have three helmsmen available.
If I move one of the officers away from his post I am told that I do not have two at the helm.

Crew transfers are not an issue for me as after a few patrols your crew points etc., exceed any new crew member available.

Like you I use word to compose on as it far easier than trying to see what you have written on Subsim.

I hope my questions etc., are not impacting on your gaming time.
Personally I am quite happy to give up some evening gaming time to correspond whereas I can usually use the morning and can grab a 20 minute slot in the afternoon while my wife is having her lunch before she uses the computer again to look through and reply to Subsim posts.
I sometimes use the Ipad if it is urgent but it is frustrating when you can easily sometimes lose a typed response on it.

Peter

Peter,

Like you, I have different versions of Das Boot. I still have it on VHS, but also original and director's cut on DVD. I don't have a home Blu-Ray player, but there is one on my gaming notebook. I have perhaps half a dozen Blu-Ray films, whereas I have a stack of DVD singles and box sets. Some of mine are: HBO's Rome [I watch it over and over again and it never gets old], Band of Brothers [another that gets reruns], various Clint Eastwood bundles [my favourite actor!], Seinfeld and various history collections, such as Viet Nam and Civil War. Yes, history is a major obsession in my life. I also have a nice book library. When I finished my basement I had the contractor build a custom book shelf to take my TIME-LIFE collections, which include The SS, The Civil War and History of Aviation. When I die, one of my three kids is going to inherit my books. Likely my son, as my girls are not really bothered. Then there is my small but growing gun collection. That will be split up amongst my two Canadian kids, as it would be a hassle to get any of them down to my daughter who lives in Texas. But, I hope to stick around for a few more decades yet, as do we all.

To get to your questions, in order. I am finding it best to have your post in one window where I can view it while I compose in Word Pad. I do have Office installed, but I find Word Pad is just right for this purpose.

I almost always have my forward tubes pointed at the highest value targets, which are invariably in the core of the convoy. Four bow tubes are more powerful than one or two stern tubes. I almost always launch while facing an inner column, and will shoot the stern tube[s] if the target behind me is valuable enough. Often it works out that I don't; aside from that, I like to keep a stern tube stoked with a G7E for the trip home, in case I need to fight my way out of an engagement with an enemy warship.

I tend to favour attacking the leading ships when I infiltrate, because, aside from the fact that the most valuable targets are usually there, or just behind, it will also help with my escape and evasion. After launching I usually turn towards the rear of the convoy and try to go deep and silent and exit astern of the convoy. Sometimes I will turn around within the convoy box and use my stern tube on another higher value target in the core. If it doesn't sink her with one fish, it may slow it down and force it to fall behind, which will conveniently be where I am!

With this strategem [or would it be more properly be termed a tactic?] I usually get a couple of minutes before the escorts start heading in my direction. At least early war; they often think the attack came from outside the box and launch star shells and search that way. By the time they approach the interior of the convoy, I can be deep enough to have some breathing room if I do get pinged. I usually am in silent running mode during my submerged infiltration attempts and continue that way as I dive and escape/evade. There will be time later to reload while submerged and far enough away from the escorts. For now, stealth is the key to your survival.

When I attack a convoy, I take into account a number of factors. As players become more experienced they will start to think similarly. I am not a billiards player, but I know enough about the sport that you have to play in such a way as to set up future success. Each shot can set you up for another shot. This is how I play SH3.

One of the most important considerations to me is whether the convoy is outward bound or U.K. bound, and thus the likelihood that a multi-day engagement will draw me closer to land-based air power. I assess whether I have a reasonable expectaton that I will be able to re-engage the convoy after my first attack. Other factors can play into this equation: Visibility, daylight or night, which is important to consider in terms of visibility of torpedo wakes, your fuel load, number [and even type] of remaining torpedoes [and deck gun rounds, too]. What is the weather doing, getting better or worse? If the weather is deteriorating, make your first attack your most lethal, as it may be your only one. If I have confidence that I will be able to make further attack[s] on the convoy, I may try to sink an outer column ship to leave a gap in the perimeter that I can exploit later. For example, in one attack I wanted to launch at a T-3 tanker in the centermost column, but the neighbouring ship might take a torpedo. I torpedoed and sank a relatively valuable ship which left a gap in the perimeter that I later exploited for the attack on the T-3. Of course, you should not always plan on being successful at maintaining contact with the convoy, so as much as possible I attack the highest value ships first.

Here is another one: do you have reason to believe an aircraft carrier is with or near the convoy? In my last patrol, there was a CV in the middle column. That would normally be a priority target [sink it now and no planes after sunrise!] but I had only one torpedo left, in my VIIB's stern tube. I did not think I would be able to sink her with one torpedo [remember, the game does not reward you for damaged assets, only sunk or destroyed ones] so did not even attempt to set up on her. Instead, I made my approach in such a way that I attacked a C-3 on the perimeter of the convoy on the port side. Moving into position ahead and to the side of the convoy, before submerging I turned my boat around so that my tail was pointing to the convoy. This would set up my escape and evasion attemtp ahead of time. Remember, always think ahead! With just the one torpedo, I did not think it best to get inside the box, as I would have to get closer to an inner column to fire outward. After firing, I dive; if I did this attack from within the box, I would be diving toward deep draft vessels in the inner columns. There would be a risk of collision while submerged.

I fired that last torpedo and it ran deep under the C-3 and sailed harmlessly on. I did cross my fingers and hope it would hit anything else, but not so lucky this time. Apparently the convoy did not sight the bubble wake; it was near dawn, still dark enough that it was not spotted. Unaware that it was just attacked, the convoy sailed on. I went deep and got away. Knowing the carrier was with the convoy, I wanted to get away as quickly as I could and put much distance between me and the carrier. Normally I do not surface uncomforatably close to the convoy, but I judged that I would be able to. I surfaced about 4,000 metres from the corvette that was stationed at the rear of the convoy. I was already stern-on to her, thus presenting the smallest possible aspect ratio [head or tail facing is better than presenting a broadside profile]. I started at the lowest telegraph setting and as distance away from her increased, I gradually ramped up my speed to all ahead full, hoping to put miles between me and the carrier.

When I surfaced, the glow of dawn was already on the horizon. The carrier may have remembered my attack from earlier the previous night and be looking for me, thus I wanted as much distance as possible before daylight. I also needed to ventilate the boat and top up the batteries, though they were not anywhere near getting depleted. About an hour later two Gladiators made a run at me. I was able to crash dive away in time and their ordnance fell harmlessly astern. However, they called up several more pairs of planes, which attacked my last known position in several waves. By this time I guess I was far enough away from the convoy that they did not send an escort to pursue the sighting. Or none that I detected.

I altered course and stayed under for several hours and eventually turned for home, with a nice tonnage score. It turned out to be the last career patrol for my Kaleun, who was retired after returing to base, sent to a shore command.

What could I have done differently, to avoid that plane attack? I could have prudently stayed under for a number of hours and possibly avoided the encounter altogether. On the other hand, I wanted to send BdU a signal in case they wanted me to act as a homing beacon, so it was important that I surface and get that message off. They didn't and simply ordered me home, but I was half hoping they would order me to track the convoy, as I want to see a wolf pack now that they are featured in LSH2015. Had they ordered me to do so, it would have been quite the challenge, seeing as how the convoy had air cover.

I did not choose St. Nazaire as my base; I was simply assigned there when I started a new career after the retirement of my previous Kaleun. I am dreading the future Allied Biscay air offensive, now that I am based in France. That is a very shallow continental shelf for a U-boat to have to traverse, and it is not a short stretch! It takes hours to get to the deepest water. I consult my charts and look for the deepest possible water and chart my route out accordingly. I haven't been jumped by planes there yet, but it will come at some point. My plan is to have my flak gun[s] manned when I leave base and head out at full ahead, to minimize as much as I can my vulnerability in that area. How can you do a high speed dive when you only have10 to 20 metres under your hull, less in some areas?

Promotions? I've had a few over the last two careers. I am now presently at sea on patrol 1 of a new career. My patrol grid was CF85. As I approached it the weather became very nasty. I spent a frustrating week in my grid [I know you only have to do 24 hours to get the renown, but I think I should put in more time there after all that commuting. Besides, I think maybe BdU knows there is a likelihood of trade in the area for us]. Eventually I pulled the plug on that area and I am now on my way to hunt off the coast of Spain/Africa, hoping to find a convoy leaving or approaching the Med. My crew are still hoping for their first success on their debut patrol, but they are getting a bit glum. I have given them several pep talks and Number 1 is giving them their political indoctrination, ala Das Boot.

Tube doors. Yes, it is frustrating the way they snap shut. My practice is to make all of my torpedo settings ahead of time, then select the first tube I plan to fire and open all the doors by going to the weapons officer's station and manually opening the tube doors. As long as I do not click onto other tubes and then leave those tubes, they will stay open.I don't very often use salvos. I might if I am really close to a high value target. The reason I don't is that each torpedo in a salvo does not track parallel all the way to the others. Each torpedo will track one degree off from the next, so that as they move toward the target their individual tracks diverge. If you are conducting a longer range attack, like say 1.000 metres or more, this can cause one or more to miss ahead or astern. Experiment some time, use G7A's [steamers, so you can see their wake in the external view] and watch their track. You will not see three or four wakes equidisant apart, but spreading out the farther away they get from the sub. Last time I fired a salvo it resulted in one of the torpedoes missing ahead of the target. On the other hand, salvos can take the headache out of manually firing each tube and worrying about the doors. If you fire from extreme close distance like I do, it is important that you don't lose any time farting about with tube doors.

If you want to try salvo firing, you simply rotate the salvo switch while at the UZO or attack scope. As you turn it, you will hear it click and it will highlight the tubes that will be fired. Because the various torpeodes have different speeds, I load before I leave base, or when reloading at sea in such a way as to be ready for salvo fire with identical torpedoes. For me it works out like this: G7A's in tubes 1 and 4, G7E's in tubes 2 and 3. If I wish to salvo fire two torpedoes, I click the salvo switch so that it fires 1 and 4, or 2 and 3. There are other salvo settings available; the best thing to do is play with the switch and see what the options are, and then plan your loadouts and reloads with salvo fire in mind. Turn off automatic torpedo reloading if you wish to carry different torpedo types in one patrol. The crew have a tendency of mucking up your plans by loading a different type than what you may have been planning.

Qualifications. By "bonus points" do you mean experience ratings? Experience ratings affect the crew's efficiency in their rated compartment. With a rookie crew, you need more men to reload torpedoes as quickly as possible. The green bar above each compartment moves up or down as you move crew in and out. The biggest impact is made when you move in or out crew qualifed for the that compartment. Torpedo-qualifed loaders make the green bar move more when you put them in the torpedo compartment. Also, don't forget the officer rating. He also brings a boost in efficiency if he is rated for the particular compartment. You can improve effiency in various compartments, but only to a maximum. Once the green bar is full, you will not make the crew faster by putting in even more men. For example, in my LSH2015 careers I thnk it takes a 100% efficient crew about 7-8 minutes per tube. You will not be able to push it quicker than that by overloading the compartment with spare bodies.

It is nice to have rated specialists in gunnery and torpedoes, for example but DO NOT neglect having repair rated crewmen. Whether they are assigned to the repair window at the top left of the screen, or occupying a different station, they contribute towards repair efficiency in any compartment they occupy. You may not have enough crew to fix everything at once, so concentrate on the most urgent repairs first. In less dangerously damaged compartments you can move in unrated crew, who will do what they can. In any case, whether you deploy repair-rated crew or not, your men will get to work on damage in any compartment they presently occupy, provided you are not in silent running mode, which ceases all repairs and torpedo reloading. I like to have several repair-rated officers and NCO's and concentrate them in the repair station, damage management or whatver it is called and assign them specifically to the most urgently needed repairs.

On a previous patrol I took damage all over the boat while I was evading. I quickly assembled my repair team and assessed the damage and assigned them to the most urgent repair at the moment. As I was submerged, I coud leave the damaged radio and air compressor for later. You don't run the compressor when submerged and you can't use or need your radio when you are deep. It is more important to go after any flooding first, and damaged batteries, as flooding can kill you and seawater mixing with battery acid can form lethal cholorine gas. If you are actively under attack and have damaged hydrophones, they can be a priority in order for you to hear what is going on up top.

Experience and discussion will teach you which repairs are the most vital in any particular situation and time. My radio was damaged but my antenna was destroyed. Fixing the radio went to the bottom of the list. I had no flooding but battery damage, so that was first thing to be repaired. My compressor was damaged; not needed at the moment but I would want it working again before I surfaced; priority: important but not needed right now. My flak guns and deck plating were damaged, but you can't fix that while submerged. Priority: flak guns first thing to be repaired after surfacing. Deck gun second priority, as defense against air attack is more important then offensive action with the deck gun. On the other hand, if you are forced to surface in the presence of enemy vessels and have a damaged gun, you will want that fixed first in order to be able to defend in that situation. If it were that bad, I think a trip to Davey Jones's locker would be imminent.

See how it works? It all depends on the situation at that moment. Priorities change as the situation develops. Your job as Kaleun is to know what is vital and why and when.

Don't worry about taking my time away from the game to discuss the game and answer questions. I am not working at the moment as I am still recovering from brain surgery. I have plenty of time on my hands most days and as I have a touch of insomnia, I can play at weird hours. Since my son got married we have a spare bedroom. After laying in bed for a while last night I decided I would be better off doing something instead of laying there in frustration. I got up and moved my gaming notebook into the spare bedroom and played SH3 all night!

It sure helps having a tolerant wife. I feel sympathy for any guy who has to put up with an unhappy woman who hates his gaming hobby.

Good luck and good hunting.

Randy

[Sailor Steve]

I never use the salvo switch, for the reason that while they did have and use that function, the torpedoes did not all fire at the same time. To do so would cause them to hit each other or to set each other off.

"In the case of launching a salvo, at the moment of triggering the firing lever, the first torpedo was launched. Simultaneously the timing control box (Zeitschalter) was turned on, which launched the other torpedoes automatically at a 2-3 second interval (later changed to a slightly larger interval to keep the torpedo wakes from influencing the course of the other torpedoes)."
http://tvre.org/en/torpedo-fire-control-system-on-german-u-boats

For this reason I fire my salvoes manually, counting five seconds between each one.

[K-61]

Steve, what a great link! I will be spending many hours studying that.

As I mentioned in another post, I also almost never use the salvo switch. If I am going to fire multiple torpedoes, I fire them a few seconds apart. The other thing I do is vary my aiming point, by unlocking the view and setting my reticle on the part of the ship I hope to hit. In this manner, I "strafe" a target vessel and hope to inflict the damage in more than one section of the ship, thereby increasing my chances of sinking it or damaging it sufficiently to force it out of a convoy, after which it may be finished off later.

[THEBERBSTER]

Randy

I am certainly hoping to be able to use the information that you posted in my games.
Your encounters on your patrols are intriguing and an enjoyable read.
I have not come across an aircraft carrier or even a task force yet in my past 12 patrols.

I am guessing that the game retiring you is a SH3 Commander action?
How does that impact when you have to start a new career again?
Do you carry on from where you finished or do you have to start at the beginning of the war again?
I think I may have answered my own question by the fact that you are in France.
Do you get to keep your crew?

Your St. Nazaire base has been chosen I assume because of the flotilla you chose to go with number 7?
I recently received a radio message to say that all new boats were going to be issued from Gdansk.
Is there a particular reason why you prefer the VIIB to the IXB?
I shamelessly admit that I was excited to get a IXB.
Every time I load my game to play I feel a connection with the boat type, I still find it awesome.

Looking at the convoy route map nothing seems to go through CF85.
Would you think about using SH3Commander to select your own Patrol grid?

Your tube selection was interesting and I think I need to use it as it looks balanced.
My torpedo loadout up to know has always been 1>G7a 2>G7a 3>G7e 4>G7e 5>G7e 6>G7a.
I think from reading your posts I realize that I am thinking more about it as a game and not paying enough attention to the historical aspects and capabilities that the game produces.

Yes, I was referring to experience ratings which you have explained really well.
When you refer to overloading the compartments all my compartments are always full as showing in post #22.
The only time that changes is when I move crew to Damage control.
I assume if you were using fatigue then you would have various numbers of crew in the bow and stern quarters resting.

Regarding repairs, is it only one repair at a time or can multiple repairs be undertaken?
11 crew members on 1 repair seems to be a bit excessive.
I can only remember using them twice on my patrols.
I had deck plate and some other damage from D.C’s 77% damage
It was a good job I was homeward and not outward bound at the time.
The second time a merchant ran over the top of my winter garden and damaged the flak gun.
I guess I have been quite lucky so far.
That I can see changing once I start to deploy some of your tactics.

You were talking about mishaps and sabotage etc.
You remember the problems I was having with Ahead Flank dropping to Ahead Slow both surfaced and submerged, makes me wonder now that it was not a problem with the game.

How is your recovery from your surgery going on?
Do you have to go back to the hospital for regular treatment or monitoring?
It must have been a very worrying time for your family.
Do you think you will be able to work again?

All the best

Peter

[K-61]

Peter,

Yes, being retired is due to SH3 Commander's career length option. I like the uncertainty of it, though sometimes I am disappointed, espcially if I get stopped just sort of the only thing that cures an itchy throat, the Ritter Kreuz. When you are retired, you don't take anything with you, it all stays behind for the man who takes over after you. What I do then is start a new career via Commander in the month following the one I just completed. Whether each captain is retired or killed in action, I start a new career in the same way. By this means I go through from 1939 until 1945 and get to enjoy all periods of the war. Which does not mean I enjoy being the hunted later in the war, but it is a challenge then just staying alive.

I got St. Nazaire by choosing 7th Flotilla. For some reason I can't choose anything other than Erpro when I run Commander, unless it is 1941 or later, but even then I can't get to choose the month. Once the game is launched, I then choose a flotilla that will give me the boat of my choice, which is usually a 7. I like the IX's, too, but I find for my type of aggressive infiltration tactics the 7 is a quicker, more agile boat. But yeah, the gun and torpedo capacity of the IX is very sweet. I completely understand how you can fall in love with a given boat. There are even players who actually prefer the duck boats, the lowly Type II. Whatever floats your boat, as the saying goes.

Sadly, I just lost all the results of the first patrol in my new career. I had a good first patrol west of Gibraltar after leaving the fruitless CF85 behind. I find that if I pursue all of the red contact reports of singles I rack up unrealist tonnage scores, so I have gone back to my old habit of years ago of ignoring individual reports and take on only what I actually spot, or convoys reported by B-dienst. Even then, in spite of these restrictions I still get good scores, for now. When I got back to base, the game did not recognize any of my kills, showing me with a score of 0 tons, but a pile of renown. I think it may be due to the fact that I might have messed up my game with a first patrol tinkering with the boat, which is a defect of the game itself. I added crew members, which I guess was enough to break the system. So, from now on, "Don't touch anything with a first patrol" means just that. Take my boat to sea on its first patrol "as is" and/or do a quick putt about the area for one day and redock and then tinker with crew and boat equipment.

I am also giving consideration to going back to GWX, in spite of the praise I have for LSH2015. I miss certain aspects of that mod, but before I reinstall it, I have do my research and select from the pile of new mods that have come out in years that I was missing from this game. I have some serious research time to put in. I am a big fan of gramophone music mods; I don't load any modern music, such as Led Zeppelin or AC/DC, as cool as that might be to listen to on patrol, just historical stuff. I could not stand the irony of being in a sub that was in an unrecoverable dive, like in Das Boot, while AC/DC's "Highway to Hell" was playing and hearing the line, "... and I'm going down..."

I do now and then get a lemon of a patrol zone, but I follow orders. I will use Commander to assign a patrol zone after docking at a U-tanker or resupply ship, in order to avoid that null message. In such a case, I pull out a favourite hunting zone relevant to my vicinity.

Regarding crew efficiency, I don't mean have the compartments "full" as in as many men in there as the game allows, but to effiency, as indicated by the green bar above each compartment. As you move in and out men qualified for that compartment, the green "meter" above the compartment will drop to the left [lower efficiency] or move to the right [improved efficiency.] If you have enough qualified men in a compartment, the green bar will move further to the right until it is maximized. At that point, moving any more crew members in will not increase compartment efficiency. A smaller number of qualified men will max out efficiency as indicated by the green bar than will a physically full compartment of less qualifed men. This is easier to see in the stern tube compartment, where you can max out the green bar with less than six men.

Damage management is harder to maximize. You can by putting more men there, but yes, it does seem silly to have lots of men assigned to fixing a flak gun. Two or three seems more realistic. In such cases I move the extra bodies elsewhere. I only keep my medic and spare personnel in the rest compartments, unless there is damage there, in which case I assign a prudent number of men. I don't use a fatigue model, since the orginal model is simply silly, with grown men dropping from fatigue faster than toddlers, and all the others, though valiant in attempt, I find inadequate. Nobody's fault but the game designers. "No fatigue" is not good either, but it is for now the least worst choice. On the other hand, I "simulate" crew fatigue after some time by heading back for base, even if I still have torpedoes. It's the most realistic compensation I can think of for now, unless we deliberately underassign personnel in order to artificially raise work times. Still, even then I can't imagine a compartment full of torpedo loaders being so tired and lacking motivation that they couldn't manage reloading a couple of torpedoes in anything better than anemic time.

Repairmen seem to have a lot of spare time on my boats, but not always nor will it always be that way. The dedicated repair team you assemble can only be assigned to one job at a time. All other damaged compartments will however still have repair work being done, by any crew members in that compartment. It will just not proceed as efficiently. If you wish to have important repairs done concurrently, I would suggest putting at least one repair qualified man in those compartments, instead of putting every repair qualifed man in the specialist team.

Don't forget officers! They can have repair qualifications and work in their respective compartments. I try to have one officer with repair in my command room. That way, he can man a station vital to navigation or whatever and still wield a wrench.

As to my personal issues, yes, I am recovering well from the surgery. It was quite a challenge at first, as I had difficulty with memory and attention span. This is the one and only time I have had brain surgery, so I had no idea what to expect. I've had several knee operations, so I know what normal surgery is like, but this one was different. I also had issues with the anti-seizure medications they had me on, but I haven't had to take them since August and those issues are resolved. I don't need any more hospital work, other than a once yearly MRI scan to see if anything tries to regrow. Even if it does, it can be zapped with radiation. I am very optimistic.

I am returning to work tomorrow, in a different role, though. My old job in the parts department has been taken over in the meantime. The boss offered me the job of the janitor, who has left the country to be with family in the U.S. It's not my ideal job, but it is a job and will have me earning again; I was wondering how I was going to manage Christmas gifts this year. It is not full time work, just five hours a day, but it is a start. The owner has offered me driving work once I regain my driver's license. I see the neurologist at the end of November, who has already told me he will get my license back as long as no changes occur between now and then. So, things are looking up, finally, and I am simply grateful. I've enjoyed the support of a good wife and family, but it is time for me to get going again.

Good luck with your patrols. Let me know if you try any new tactics and how they work out.

Randy

[THEBERBSTER]

Randy

I think I would be devastated if I was suddenly retired after putting in all that hard work.

You may have forgotten that any new career or u-boat upgrade has to take place in the Eprobungstelle Flotilla for testing purposes and no changes should be made at this point.
When you dock you then transfer after awarding any medals and qualification etc, and then exit the game.
This creates the new mission save that you load when you start the game again.

GWX again that is interesting, I also used that with SH3Commander when I was having problems at the time with SH5 before TWOS became available.

My Gramophone music is mostly German 1930’s marches with a bit of light music thrown in.
I have also added a bit of French as well although it would not be correct but I like Piaff.

I am quite happy to have a No PQ and have a bit of a roam about.
No PQ only adds 1 day refitting whereas the bunker refits add 3 weeks.
Having to patrol the grid for 24 hours goes quickly compared to SH5 where the patrol grids are 48 and 72 hours without a save being allowed until completed.

From what you are saying it seems that you place your crew in the compartments accordingly and those you feel are not required you place them in the rest quarters?
Thank you for explaining the crew efficiency regarding the green bar.
I think I might need to re-valuate some of my crew positions.
If I remember correctly with the VIIB if you were to max out the compartments apart from damage control you would have 1 crew member over where as I have 4.

The problem with the officers apart from 1 is that they are all maxed out with 3 qualifications and have loads of experience points and medals after 13 patrols.
Did you say previously that you can give out additional qualifications through SH3Commander?

Patrol 13 has finished with me currently in Las Palmas.
I was attacked 3 times by aircraft without sustaining any damage.
The sea was really rough and I usually travel at Ahead 1/3rd 10/11 knots and at times I was down to 4 knots and was beginning to worry about the amount of fuel I was using so had to cut my patrol short and head for the “Gelting” in Las Palmas.
Only 6 ships sunk for just over 22,000 tons.
I think I will head back towards Gibraltar for Patrol 14 as I really would like to have a go at a task force and try some of your convoy tactics.

That is good news about the job and possibly not a bad thing that it is not a lot of hours as at least you should be able to ease yourself back into the working routine gently.

Best wishes
Peter

[K-61]

Peter,

Thanks for your comments and well wishes. I worked hard today, first day back; I'm going to have to learn to pace myself. That is one thing about me, any job I do I want to do it well and to high standards. I've been on a health induced layoff for ten months and my health and surgery have taken a lot more out of me than I realized. My wife says one of my flaws is not recognizing my limits. It is part of my stubborn nature not to be a quitter, which has served me well in most endeavors in life, but sometimes it leads me to undertake that which I should really not. I'm 54 and I am really fighting the aging process. I am not trying to be a perpetual teenager, but I do not intend to be a frail old man; I wish to be vigorous in my old age. My father is 85 years old and still tends to his own affairs; he drives, lives in his own house and has all his mental faculties, sharp as ever. That's how I wish to be if I live to that age. I believe I have a good underlying basis of health, in spite of what happened to me last year. I have never smoked, I don't drink alcohol, I am not overweight, I have no issues with health that are common to men my age, such as high blood pressure, diabetes, etc. Other than my knees have degrees of osteoarthritis; they will need to be replaced one day, but the orthosurgeon told me when I was 48 to get 20 more years out of my natural knees. I think I can do it and I am taking as good care of my joints as I can.

Thank you for your advice concerning new career starts. Let me see if I understand this clearly. I MUST begin every new career in the Erpro unit? After my first patrol, I know I must apply for a transfer. I am guessing from this that if I start a career this way, I can then hop up to a bigger boat [if available] right after my shakedown cruise? When I restart my new career [I hope it will start in April '41 as my last career ended in March '41] it will begin in the month/year I selected via Commander? I think it has finally sunk in and I will give it a try. And not fart about with anything on the boat, including crew.

I find I prefer to go back to my home port after I run out of torpedoes, unless I have had such luck as to have done so early in a patrol. For example, if I have a big convoy battle only a week or so out of base, then the crew are still fresh and the boat should have no technical issues such as would be manifested after a long patrol [engines feeling tired, food running low, crew fatigue, etc.] Under such circumstances I don't mind slipping into a friendly port or liase with a ship/U-tanker. Then of course I set my time in base at the resupply point to 1 or 2 days. If I need a whole new set of torpedoes, I will simulate what I think may be the greater amount of time required to load so many torpedoes by setting it to two days. This also lets me simulate that I bottomed out the sub or left port so as not to be visible during the day to Allied spies. I don't enter these resupply points on neutral territory until after sunset, to simulate operational security procedures. These are examples of the "house rules" that I referred to in other posts. The one thing I don't like about such visits away from home base is that it interferes with the game's post-patrol routines. Still, it is only a minor inconvenience.

It is nice to see you have a highly experienced crew. As Jurgen Prochnow said in Das Boot, "You've got to have good men!" Sometimes I don't enable the crew transfer option in Commander, usually right at the beginning of a career. I feel that BdU is not likely to steal crew from me right after patrol 1. Another reason I don't enable it always is that I have a practice of dismissing crew that reach their maximum experience. I don't wish to hog the best trained men in the U-waffe, so when an officer reaches his maximum, I dismiss him and wish him luck in his next posting, whether he takes over a new sub as commander or acts as the cadre for a fresh boat's new crew. I also don't think it right that all of my seamen and P.O.'s are top ranked. They will be dismissed, too, from time to time. If I do enable Commander's crew transfer option, then I will let that handle most crew changes.

In spite of having such an elite crew, Peter, you can still add more qualifications to some of them. Of course, seamen and lower level P.O.'s can only have one qualification, but higher ranked men can have more than one. Commander allows you to assign qualifications at a quicker rate than the "one per patrol" that the standard game does. I think that aspect is a bit odd. So, you can bump up the assignment of qualifications faster than the game allows, but you cannot assign any more beyond game limits. You can't give four to an officer or three to a P.O. Seamen can always only have one, but remember the seamen qualifications are not recognized for compartment efficiency bonus, but I find that the game does tend to assign them to duty a lot of the time by their qualifications. For example, when I click to man the deck gun, the game sends my gunnery qualified P.O. and the two seamen who have gunnery qualification. I think this is either coincidence or due to the fact that I "group" men of the same qualification adjacent to each other when they are not in their specialist stations.

On my last patrol I got jumped by a bomb-equipped Hurricane with Royal Navy markings. I had sunk a British vessel the evening before. This plane came after me some time between morning and mid-day, I can't remember the exact time. This was in the area to the west of Gibraltar. I really have to try that command hack that I read of recently. You add certain words into one of the config files, which automatically mans your flak and issues orders to attack any closing aircraft. This would work faster than trying to fart around dragging men to their guns and issuing orders by clicking. In real life it would be very quick for the Kaleum to shout out his orders.

I also see no reason why the game does not allow you to have your flak gunners up top at the same time as the bridge watch. They are not in the same area thus would not be crowding each other. Looking at the boat in external view you can easily see how you should be able to do both at the same time. There is plenty of room for both, thus I guess it must be a game coding thing that forbids this. It would be great to have a mod that would allow us to man both guns and watch at the same time. If you have only your flak guns manned and the one guy in the bridge, search effiency is very degraded. You may miss spotting vessels or even planes this way.

In transit I set my dial to the most fuel-efficient setting for that boat. I determine this by trying various speeds and asking the navigator for maximum range at that setting. I know it seems glacial to get to your patrol zone this way, but if you run at higher speed you deplete your fuel sooner. I try to be at sea as long as possble fuel-wise. I also like how LSH2015 or the integrated fixes, make it risky to run at flank speed due to engine breakdown. This is more realistic. Just about every mechanical device I can think of has its limits. Push physical things too much and they are going to break. I have a nice car that has a powerful engine that can push it along quite quickly. If I ran her around at top RPM all the time it would soon start to show fatigue issues. U-boats were the same and I think it is great the game now reflects this.

Right, I need to get my itch scratched. TIme to head out on new career first patrol, using your advice. Erpro, here I come...

Good hunting, kamerad!

Randy

[THEBERBSTER]

Randy
Do you take any fish oil capsules for your joints?
I take Omega 3 capsules.
I also take a product called Pom-T which is a supplement product to help protect against prostate cancer which is a big issue in older men.
I totally agree that you need to pace yourself and don’t go mad at it as you get back into your new routine.
I MUST begin every new career in the Erpro unit? After my first patrol, I know I must apply for a transfer. I am guessing from this that if I start a career this way, I can then hop up to a bigger boat [if available] right after my shakedown cruise?
Yes, that is correct.
Transferring is the only way to upgrade your boat.
You can stay with VIIB or may be able to upgrade to a VIIC if you do not like the IXB.
Radio messages keep you informed of what boats are available.
Your Flotilla 7 will move to Bergen in late 44 if you do not transfer from it.

I found a bit of a game cheat by accident.
When you do a test patrol, and you are in the dock or bunker if you then exit the patrol you will find that you have the option to complete it.
Each crew member then receives just 1 experience point, no medals, but there is 1 qualification available, and then you transfer using the desk telephone and exit the game.

The home port re-supply is ok if you are within reach.
Does the game take into account the boat you are using and the grid patrol area you are assigned?
My last patrol grid DR82 I would not be able to patrol there and have enough fuel to get back to Lorient without a re-supply somewhere.
Your fuel capacity and range will be less than mine.
The one thing I don't like about such visits away from home base is that it interferes with the game's post-patrol routines.
My only real gripe is that you have to accept the default torpedo loadout which I would say probably did not happen?

At the moment I feel I need the best crew I can get.
I am certainly going to need them in the months to come.
I still do not have enough game experience with SH3 with just 13 patrols which includes test patrols as well.
I like your discipline to your game, especially taking on less experienced crew is giving you a bigger challenge.
I noticed that moving my crew around I did not notice any difference even when I exchanged a sailor for a PO.
But when you moved a qualified PO such as I have with 3 qualified PO repairmen, these 3 really shoot the Damage Control green bar to over ¾ of its length.
I have my Stern Tubes crew maxed out and I am still well short of maxing out the bar.
I need to get a qualified torpedo PO in there.
It’s interesting that there is no qualification for the Sonar man, but there is for the Radio man.
I am not sure how you add the qualifications through SH3Commander.
Do you have to be in port before starting the next patrol?

I agree with you regarding the flak gunner and bridge crew.
I can remove 2 of the bridge crew and the green bar does not move.

According to the fuel efficiency chart yours is 8-9 knots and mine is 9 knots.
The weather is going to have a big say in what is feasible.
If your navigator is giving you a true picture when the sea is rough and the bridge is going under water and with a wind speed of 15 then he is worth consulting.
I think my bridge crew could do with snorkels and face masks.
They remain doggedly hanging on to those binoculars like there is no tomorrow.

Flank Speed, there has to be a limit on how long you can run on that.
Again imagine the strain if you were trying to fight against 15 wind speeds.
I reckon the C.E must have dreaded that command.
The noise must have been deafening.
I am pleased with my engine upgrade and can definitely notice the difference.

One thing I would like to see different is my position to the W.O. on the bridge being changed over as my view is restricted by the rotating DF antenna.

Have you noticed some black contacts appearing on the map?
There is a mod that you can enable that increases the difficulty level and shows all contacts black so you cannot tell what you are looking at until you investigate.

So, patrol 14 has started and already most of my journey towards Gibraltar is heavy fog, heavy palpitations, and 15 wind speed.
Happy days.

Good hunting
Peter

[THEBERBSTER]

Randy

This might be of interest to you.
Go to the W.O icon
Select the gun icon you want to man.
Select the Crew On Deck icon.
Select the gun icon you want to man.
Gun is now manned.

Go to W.O icon
Select the Crew On Deck Icon.
Select the Watch Crew On deck icon.
Watch Crew now on the bridge.

These are the shortcut keys the icons are showing.
Man the Deck Gun Shift + D
Man the Flak Gun CTRL + D
Watch Crew On Deck CTRL + G

I have had 57 hours of continuous heavy fog.
I am fed up with it so have decided to head for BE96.
I have managed to get a couple of kills in since the fog lifted.
I picked up a warship contact on the map moving fast heading due south.
I am 8km away heading due north, no fog.
I crash dived to 25 metres and picked up a second warship on hydrophone.
Turn to 90ᴼ ahead full and close the range.
Go to periscope depth and I see 2 large warships.
Need to fire G7e’s to have any chance of a hit.
I really need the torp speed but I have to go for stealth.
Where’s the fog when you need it?
The warships are travelling at 18 knots.
The first warship is (BC) HMS Repulse 37,400 tons
I can lock on to her but I cannot get a good angle now as she is sailing away and so not worth wasting torps.
I now lock on to 2nd warship (HC) HMS Suffolk 13,300 tons
I fire 2 G7e’s asap at around 4,000 metres AOB + 30ᴼ now.
Both torps hit, the warship is reduced to 9 knots and peeling away to the left.
Fun while it lasted but no result.

How do you go about sending a contact report?
I know you send the radio report but is there anything else you need to do?

We discussed running at Flank Speed previously for long periods which does not seem right.
Well there is a diesel damages fix in the HSIE patch.
This causes randomized engine if you run for too long at Flank Speed.

All the best

Peter