VW, what hast thou done?

[Onkel Neal]

Diesel scandal victims await villains (http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2015/sep/26/volkswagen-diesel-scandal-compensation-fines/)

Man, this is big news here. A lot of people angry over this. Seems VW's computer system was designed to run clean, but only under emissions testing conditions. Under normal conditions, they run dirty, in order to make the mpg and power people expect.

I’ve long admired the basic technology. Diesel engines create combustion by compressing fuel and oxygen. They last longer and use fewer parts.

They also use less fuel, thus producing less carbon dioxide that causes climate change. Friends would return from Europe with stories about renting Ford Fiesta diesels that got 65 miles per gallon. But they were dirty, so we couldn’t have one in the U.S.

Until 2009, when Volkswagen and other German car companies began rolling out quiet, powerful engines that met California air quality standards.

[Torplexed]

Shame. VW was a company with a magnificent reputation up to this point. I would have excepted these kind of shenanigans more from the sagging auto giants of Detroit. Perhaps they'll show up at some point now that this sort of practice has been exposed.

Seems like a dumb thing for VW to do, but in hindsight, I suppose it seemed brilliant in the way that great corporate crimes always are. The best way to rob a bank is to own one; the best way to defeat factory-set emissions controls is to own the factory.

[Betonov]

The Jap fanboys are having a festival of their lives while the das auto fan boys are coming up with new excuses every day.
And I'm just sitting in the middle saving my money for that old Renault to go back to. The old one, when the French still made tanks.

[STEED]

Car emissions: Government under attack over Cameron’s testing favour to Merkel

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/car-emissions-government-under-attack-over-cameron-s-testing-favour-to-merkel-a6668491.html

[Torplexed]

Volkswagen's best bet now is to replace every recalled VW with a Kraftwerk Autobahn album. That should restore the Fahrvergnügen.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51bp72DyenL.jpg

[Jimbuna]

http://i.imgur.com/iFdYN9D.jpg

[Platapus]

Just another example of how we can trust corporations to self-police. :nope:

[Onkel Neal]

Shame. VW was a company with a magnificent reputation up to this point. I would have excepted these kind of shenanigans more from the sagging auto giants of Detroit. Perhaps they'll show up at some point now that this sort of practice has been exposed.

Seems like a dumb thing for VW to do, but in hindsight, I suppose it seemed brilliant in the way that great corporate crimes always are. The best way to rob a bank is to own one; the best way to defeat factory-set emissions controls is to own the factory.

Seems like what VW should have done is include instructions in the owner's manual on how to drive so that the car would maintain the cleanliness that the computer would manage under test conditions.

[Torplexed]

Seems like what VW should have done is include instructions in the owner's manual on how to drive so that the car would maintain the cleanliness that the computer would manage under test conditions.

I was thinking Volkswagen needs to start marketing their software engineering more vigorously. They fooled the world for seven years.

[Catfish]

^ well the VW CEO successor made quite clear, that " ...we will make sure this will never happen again".

Between his wolfish* smiling teeth you could read "...we will make sure we will never get caught again"
:D

(*VW is produced in Wolfsburg, Germany)

[em2nought]

VW just needs to sneak a computer virus into all the other manufacturers vehicles that turns them all into belching polluters. They must be smart enough, and vile enough to do it? :hmmm:

[bertieck476]

They are not the only ones doing this.

Several years ago I was talking to a friend who is an engineer in a big motor company r&d. I was asking why the emissions were worse on their cars that I could have as my company car than other makes, he straight away replied that they are rigged. This has been going on a long time.

[Jimbuna]

http://i.imgur.com/ytAOtBz.jpg

[bertieck476]

http://i.imgur.com/ytAOtBz.jpg

:har::har:

[Aktungbby]

HITLER http://tightrope.cc/catalog/images/HITLER-SMILEY-STICKER.jpgTRUSTED US ! WHY WON'T U?https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/40/Volkswagen_logo_2012.svg/563px-Volkswagen_logo_2012.svg.png

[BossMark]

"Talk dirty to me," she begged.
"All right," he said, leaning closer,"Volkswagen diesel . ."

[Aktungbby]

"Talk dirty to me," she begged.
"All right," he said, leaning closer,"Volkswagen diesel . ."

"Faaaaaaaaaahrvergnüüügen mein glückliche junge" she cooed back in a sultry Teutonic accent. :doh: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/50/Ursula_Andress_1970.jpg/220px-Ursula_Andress_1970.jpg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ursula_Andress_1970.jpg)....as we headed for a cheap motelhttp://www.bluemaxinn.com/images/4newban03.gif:har:

[Catfish]

^ to all of the above: Hilarious ! :rotfl2:

[Skybird]

Super-GAU for "made in Germany".

[AVGWarhawk]

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e182/Warhawk1-avg/12003372_1205590496122981_7540597512104903579_n_zp sklmxwdn1.jpg

[Jimbuna]

http://i.imgur.com/1onmxQP.jpg

[Onkel Neal]

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e182/Warhawk1-avg/12003372_1205590496122981_7540597512104903579_n_zp sklmxwdn1.jpg


:haha:

I have a friend on another forum who explained it like this:

I deal with clean diesels for a living.
Diesels are throttled by fuel flow not air flow like gas engines, diesels run extremely lean at idle and low throttle settings and this creates very high combustion chamber temperatures generating very high NOx content in the exhaust.
NOx is mono-nitrogen oxides NO and NO2 ,nitric oxide and nitrogen dioxide.
it is the fusing of oxygen and nitrogen in the combustion chamber under high temperatures.
NOx reacts in the atmosphere to create smog and acid rain.
you reduce the production of NOx by reducing the combustion chamber temperatures, this is done with the EGR valve, you introduce a calibrated amount of non combustible gas (exhaust) to the intake and it reduces the combustion and in turn the temperatures.

you can only use so much and on diesels the EGR can only lower it so far and still run so you now have diesel Exhaust Fluid.
DEF is highly treated water with a precise amount of urea in it.
under the correct settings it is sprayed in the exhaust stream in the exhaust after treatment module, the urea reacts with the heat converting to ammonia, the ammonia reacts with the NOx breaking its bond and you get nice clean nitrogen and oxygen out the pipe.

the V-Dub is going to loose power and drivability issues will show up with them cleaned up by increasing flow of the EGR.
ones with DEF systems work better it lets them reduce the EGR flow some.
without DEF you loose power and fuel economy goes down.

people will revolt when they get their cars back from being fixed.
you won't just be able to just not take it in, it is going to be mandatory and the Government will make you take it in.

Yeah, it's going to be ugly, I'm guessing most people will want their purchase price back after they get their detuned VWs back after the recall. I cannot say I blame them.

[Platapus]

Yeah, it's going to be ugly, I'm guessing most people will want their purchase price back after they get their detuned VWs back after the recall. I cannot say I blame them.

If they have to buy them back, I wonder if the same thing will happen to VW that happened to Lancia in the UK?

[mapuc]

Read somewhere 5 million engine has to changed/removed and replaced in different VW cars.

Markus

[Jimbuna]

http://i.imgur.com/uxP5djB.jpg

[AVGWarhawk]

:haha:

I have a friend on another forum who explained it like this:



Yeah, it's going to be ugly, I'm guessing most people will want their purchase price back after they get their detuned VWs back after the recall. I cannot say I blame them.

People want their purchase price back and not only for this reason. VW in my experience is a awful car mechanically. My Passat is hands down the worst car I have ever owned. I turned it in in 12 months after purchase and took the hit on the next loan absorbing what was left on the loan in the new loan for a KIA Optima. In that 12 months the Passat had the camshaft replaced, all ignition coils after one fried melting the entire top of the engine, second gear in the transmission, high pressure fuel pump, interior parts that completely fell apart, the front windshield that cracked. My service advisor is on speed dial.

[Wolferz]

Screwing das pooch.:hmmm:

Eleven million of the buggahs worldwide?

Ouchenzy!:doh:

[Herr-Berbunch]

People want their purchase price back and not only for this reason. VW in my experience is a awful car mechanically. My Passat is hands down the worst car I have ever owned. I turned it in in 12 months after purchase and took the hit on the next loan absorbing what was left on the loan in the new loan for a KIA Optima. In that 12 months the Passat had the camshaft replaced, all ignition coils after one fried melting the entire top of the engine, second gear in the transmission, high pressure fuel pump, interior parts that completely fell apart, the front windshield that cracked. My service advisor is on speed dial.

Ah, I see the problem, it's not made in Europe. Or Mexico. Or China. But Chattanooga! The only problems I've know of about the EU VWs are the early TSI engines having issues.

[AVGWarhawk]

Ah, I see the problem, it's not made in Europe. Or Mexico. Or China. But Chattanooga! The only problems I've know of about the EU VWs are the early TSI engines having issues.

My 06 Passat was manufactured in Wolfsburg. Believe me when I say I investigated this pile of parts from top to bottom. Poorly designed first year 2.0 turbo. The high pressure fuel pump was run off the cam shaft. The pump and lobe on the cam would wear to the point of depositing metal in the crank. Some were lucky where the car would die and cam replaced. Others not so much as the engine locked from metal shavings. Subsequent years a roller cap on the high pressure fuel pump that rides the cam was designed that took care of this problem.

The extended warranty I purchased was a good decision on my part. VW lost their shirt in parts/repairs. Junk....

[Aktungbby]

I just wonder who's going to get whistle blower pay if any? Robert Bosch GmbH delivered the software for test purposes and told Volkswagen in a letter in 2007 that the planned use would be illegal, according to Bild am Sonntag. Internal auditors at Volkswagen found the letter, the German newspaper writes. Eight years!!!? : if the enigma device had worked as well for as long there'd be no problem...:woot: There is a reason I don't own any German cars (only Japane$e) it's called Consumer Report; they are beautiful to look at though.:/\\!! http://blog.caranddriver.com/report-bosch-warned-vw-about-diesel-emissions-cheating-in-2007/ (http://blog.caranddriver.com/report-bosch-warned-vw-about-diesel-emissions-cheating-in-2007/) http://www.marketwatch.com/story/germany-sets-deadline-for-volksagen-auto-fix-plan-2015-09-28 (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/germany-sets-deadline-for-volksagen-auto-fix-plan-2015-09-28) :arrgh!: MAYBE VW NEED$ to open a new market: http://mashable.com/2012/05/11/vws-hover-car-concept/#2DQUhe5SRkqK (http://mashable.com/2012/05/11/vws-hover-car-concept/#2DQUhe5SRkqK) :har:

[Onkel Neal]

Harris County (Houston) has filed a $100 million suit against VW. (http://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Harris-County-seeks-millions-from-Volkwagen-for-6538895.php)

In what is likely the first government lawsuit over Volkswagen's deception, Harris County officials claim that 6,000 diesel cars circulating on local roadways produced harmful emissions. These vehicles came off the line between 2009 and 2015, installed with software that could circumvent emissions monitoring.

"We have to use the maximum power of the law to penalize them. It is a grave act, what they've done," said Terence O'Rourke, the special assistant county attorney. "When you cheat like this, with the biggest car company in the world, and you lie in such a sinister way, you jeopardize the entire system of environmental regulations."

http://s3-media1.fl.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/pbzVe1N9y0fShEejhlhQTg/ls.jpg

[Platapus]

Interesting trivia:

Evidently VW made destroyers in WWII also

https://s17-us2.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http:%2F%2Fwww.maritimequest.com%2F misc_pages%2Fcecil_p_talbot%2F1926_00_00_destroyer .jpg&sp=810294893f711d7061a7fb764387e4bf

Who knew?

[Onkel Neal]

:har: Ten points for Platapus !

[Buddahaid]

Harris County (Houston) has filed a $100 million suit against VW. (http://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Harris-County-seeks-millions-from-Volkwagen-for-6538895.php)


Being from California I find it somewhat humorous that Texas would be a environmental champion. Seems more likely just a money grab. :hmm2:

[Schroeder]

Harris County (Houston) has filed a $100 million suit against VW. (http://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Harris-County-seeks-millions-from-Volkwagen-for-6538895.php)

In what is likely the first government lawsuit over Volkswagen's deception, Harris County officials claim that 6,000 diesel cars circulating on local roadways produced harmful emissions.


Which is laughable considering that pick ups don't even fall under the car emission laws and are a frequent sight on US roads with much higher emissions. Double standards at their finest (not to defend VW here but to claim that their Diesels are harmful is a joke considering the fuel consumption and emissions of trucks, pick ups and V8s that get 10 mpg).

[Herr-Berbunch]

Harris County (Houston) has filed a $100 million suit against VW. (http://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Harris-County-seeks-millions-from-Volkwagen-for-6538895.php)



Yep, just a money grab. 6000 vehicles, could have done 100 miles each or 100,000 miles each in that county. I hope they (the county) get told where to ram their claim. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be any recompense from VW, but an arbitrary sum of $100m is just a load of dangly bits.

[Onkel Neal]

I doubt getting told to ram a claim will get VW very far.


Being from California I find it somewhat humorous that Texas would be a environmental champion. Seems more likely just a money grab. :hmm2:

You're probably right. I suspect it's part a money grab, part "reimbursement" for all the onerous pollution laws forced on the state by the federal govt.

Which is laughable considering that pick ups don't even fall under the car emission laws and are a frequent sight on US roads with much higher emissions. Double standards at their finest (not to defend VW here but to claim that their Diesels are harmful is a joke considering the fuel consumption and emissions of trucks, pick ups and V8s that get 10 mpg).

Eh, what passenger trucks only get 10 mpg? I don't know of any.

Anyway, that post was not intended to sidetrack this thread to a Texas deserves compensation theme, simply to illustrate what will surely be a tsunami of litigation that VW can expect.

[Schroeder]

Eh, what passenger trucks only get 10 mpg? I don't know of any.

Make it 15 if you want, it's still lousy. My car gets 33mpg and I can haul 5 people. So unless it's loaded with 5 people and hauling a lot of stuff it's a gas guzzler.

(not bashing pick ups that are actually used to transport stuff and haul cargo just the ones used as personal transportation as that is definitely not cleaner than a VW Diesel)

[Catfish]

Just of all Texas :O:

When Porsche introduced its latest type 911 reincarnation some ten years ago, it would not fulfil the California emisson regulations.

So Porsche asked what could be done, and the authorities told them the only thing what matters whould be, what leaves the exhaust ..

So Porsche attached two pumps driven by the engine, that injected additional fresh air from outside, into the silencer. Bingo!

"Wichtig ist, was hinten rauskommt" :D

[AVGWarhawk]

Of course the money grab is coming. Soon some will be suing for second had emission exposure cause by VW.

Tort reform....

[Onkel Neal]

Make it 15 if you want, it's still lousy. My car gets 33mpg and I can haul 5 people. So unless it's loaded with 5 people and hauling a lot of stuff it's a gas guzzler.

(not bashing pick ups that are actually used to transport stuff and haul cargo just the ones used as personal transportation as that is definitely not cleaner than a VW Diesel)

What?! 33mpg? That's pathetic. My bike gets 62mpg. Cars are gas guzzlers and should only be used if you are missing a leg, or live north of the Arctic circle. :O:

Seriously, you realize that people who own pick ups may not need them to transport stuff and haul cargo every single day, but they do need them occasionally, like once or twice a week, for example, to haul cargo, pull boats, campers, trailers, etc. So they will use them for transportation the rest of the time, doesn't make sense to own two vehicles.

[Schroeder]

What?! 33mpg? That's pathetic. My bike gets 62mpg. Cars are gas guzzlers and should only be used if you are missing a leg, or live north of the Arctic circle. :O:
Your bike is pathetic too, mine gets 75mpg. I win!:smug:
:O::D

Seriously, you realize that people who own pick ups may not need them to transport stuff and haul cargo every single day, but they do need them occasionally, like once or twice a week, for example, to haul cargo, pull boats, campers, trailers, etc. So they will use them for transportation the rest of the time, doesn't make sense to own two vehicles.I know that some are used for hauling but how often does that happen? Why do they have a much laxer set of rules regarding emissions than cars? The technology that makes cars clean is also available for pick ups you know but no one gives a...What I mean is that it's ridiculous to call the VW Diesels dirty while pick ups can have emissions that go way beyond anything what any VW will blow out. Again, I'm not defending the fraud of VW I just would like to put it in relation. If people think pick ups are ok then they should not say VW pollute the air, it's laughable.

[Onkel Neal]

Man oh man....:o

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/07/19/revealed-how-vw-designed-the-greatest-scandal-in-automotive-history.html

For the first time the true scale has been revealed of a coldly calculated, deliberate and sustained scheme by scores of Volkswagen executives and engineers to defraud American car buyers and deceive American regulators.


The company also embarked on a multi-million advertising campaign in the U.S. designed to sell diesel as a “green and clean” form of power (complete with ads using towels and coffee filters to show how pure the exhaust was) when they knew that it was anything but.


In the course of 10 years, VW produced six generations of defeat devices.



Well, I will be surprised if this ends well for VW.

[Schroeder]

Well, I will be surprised if this ends well for VW.
They will survive. Too big to fail here in Germany with millions of jobs depending on them. If all else fails the tax payer will safe them.:cool:

[Betonov]

The cult of the Deutsche Wagen in the Balkans is enough to keep VW afloat.

[Diopos]

The cult of the Deutsche Wagen in the Balkans is enough to keep VW afloat.

Nope, the Balkans are a small market for VW. China on the other hand ...

:hmmm:


.

[Jimbuna]

They will survive. Too big to fail here in Germany with millions of jobs depending on them. If all else fails the tax payer will safe them.:cool:

Yep, even if it costs more than what was put into Greece :yep:

[Reece]

Your bike is pathetic too, mine gets 75mpg. I win!:smug:
Neal wasn't talking about mopeds!!:O:

[Schroeder]

Neal wasn't talking about mopeds!!:O:
Why don't you go and hitch a ride in a Kangaroo's bag?http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/angry/angry-old-man-smiley-emoticon.gif (http://www.sherv.net/)


:D

[HunterICX]

^
http://i.imgur.com/nmHS1X7.png

:haha:

After bit of research my Triumph 800XC does 44.2 US mpg
and my previous bike the XT660Z did a 60 US mpg

---

To stay on topic: I've heard a little while ago in the news that US VW owners get compensated for this scandal but the EU customers do not. how and why is that?

[Reece]

My R1100RT only gets about 40mpg but I still love it!!:yep:

[Sailor Steve]

My first bike got 150 miles per gallon. Of course it was a 50cc Honda. :dead:

[Eichhörnchen]

http://i.imgur.com/1GUwlrv.jpg ...can't get a gallon into mine

[Sailor Steve]

Couldn't get a gallon into mine either. On the other hand I could fill it up for 10 cents. On the other other hand its top speed was around 30 miles per hour, and when I was carrying a friend on it, it wouldn't climb a hill, so we both got of and I idled it up the hill while we both walked beside it.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a325/SailorSteve/Honda%2050_zpskumtkymk.jpg (http://s14.photobucket.com/user/SailorSteve/media/Honda%2050_zpskumtkymk.jpg.html)

[Jimbuna]

My first bike was the sporty SS50, the one with the 'go faster' stripe on the fuel tank :)

http://i.imgur.com/zVnNYzG.jpg