New Player with "simple questions"

[LordDakson]

Hi there everyone :) Just found and bought SH3 and installed GWX (due to the numerous recommendations made here and on steam where i purchased the game) and have been having a blast learning all about the controls, and torturing myself using manual targetting and trying to follow Wazzoos guide with the "fast 90 method". Lot of fun, this game cannot be beaten for atmosphere! I feel like a uboat captain.

After struggling along for about 4 days, i thought i'd come and ask a couple of questions that might help me out. so without further ado, here they are.

1. Using Wazoos guide, everything seems to go along as planned, i spot the target, mark the bearing and range, work out its speed in knots, plot a 90 degree intercept point, intercept at 90. Firing solution, to my untrained eye looks good. I set the TDC stuff, (000 bearing and 90 port/starboard AoB) take a final range and open tubes and shoot. However, my torpedo seems to arrive late to the party (not by much, maybe 30-50ms?) every time. Are they spotting the torpedo and moving out of the way? or am i doing something wrong.

2. Generally speaking, when moving to your patrol area, how do you move? what speeds a good fuel saving speed thats not so slow your men would die of old age before you got there? When should i cruise on the surface and when should i be under? Also, if sent over to the irish sea region, should i go through the channel and straights of dover or would you recommend a newb head over the top of England?

3. This is a tough one to answer i'm guessing, but what sort of range should i be diving if i spot a merchant? On a patrol last night, the weather was clear, with zero wind, and i have the "16km atmosphere" from the gwx mod installed. My watchman reported a merchant moving slow at long range, i used the uzo to spot it, it was a little fishing boat. I ranged it, it was around 15km away. Suddenly it started zig-zagging and using the 3.15m method, while watching it and trying to sneak up to it. its speed went from around 5 knots to 7 knots, and thats zig-zagging.

4. My deckgun only seems to have HE shells? is this correct? am i doing something wrong?

I think thats enough of my pestering you old hands :) Hope they're not stupid questions, For the record i'm playing with 80% realism, with just external camera, weapons officers calculations (as mine just flat out don't work) and map markers to "confirm" my charting.

Thank you in advance for any and all help, much appreciated. Hope i can get the hang of all this soon.

[Sailor Steve]

Welcome aboard! :sunny:

1. I'm afraid I can't help you with that one, as I've never mastered manual targeting.


2. I always use 1/3 (the second setting). In a type II that's about seven knots, and in a type VII about nine knots. One thing you can do is set a speed, travel for about an hour and then ask the Navigator for Range At Speed. Do this with different speeds and you'll soon get a feel for what works best for you.

Cruising on the surface is safe most of the time up until late 1941, as long as you stay far from shore. Most of the time you can spot aircraft and dive before they get near you.

In the game the English Channel is sort of safe, except for the mines of course. In real life they were under strict orders right from the start to go the long way around.


3. That's rather odd. I've seldom been spotted outside of 10 km in broad daylight. Of course with a little fishing boat it's best to just run up and sink him with the deck gun. Still they shouldn't normally spot you at that range.


4. Experienced kaleuns were allowed some discretion, so you may read stories of them using other shells, but in general a submarine had no need for armor-piercing shells. Illuminated shells ("star shells") would also illuminate the boat using them, so might be more trouble than they're worth. Since the game is unable to make changes like that, GWX limits the loadout to strictly HE. If you disagree or just want something different, it is possible to change your loadout.

[UKönig]

1. I also do not use manual targeting, that is, to enter my own range, speed, and angle information into the TDC. I will have to use it from time to time in heavy fog, as my weapons officer will often give an incorrect value, and make me miss.
For example, I find a ship in bad weather. My auto targeting officer gives me an estimated speed of 8 knots. All my following TDC information will be based on an 8 knot value. I fire a torpedo and hit but do not sink it. Now the ship is damaged and the speed value is no longer true. But because of the fog, my officer gives me the original value of 8, because that's all he knows. Let's say I pop out on the ext. camera to take a look, and I see the merchant from his point of view. I see damage and maybe he is no longer moving forward. My officer still tells me target speed is 8 knots when I can see it is 0. I activate the TDC in manual mode and set the target speed to 0. I fire again, and then I hit. Usually sunk. I hate having to do that. If your torpedoes are just missing the target, then I would guess that your ship speed estimation is off, that is, a little too slow. The reality is he is going slightly faster, and by the time your torpedo gets on scene, it's just sailing past the aft end. I hope that helps somewhat.

2. you should only use "full" or "flank" to overtake a convoy/ship and get into a better position for firing. That or if you need to take evasive action against aircraft incoming bombs. It's why I play with unlimited gas, these boats are slow enough as it is. The English channel is so named for a reason. Better to take the long way around.

3. If you are attacking a lone merchant that does not seem to be armed, well, you can close to whatever distance you want, just watch out for collisions. They can normally detect you inside of 4km, so if you're not sure, dive around the 4km mark. It also depends on the boat. If you have a type 9, you will have to dive farther back. If you have a type 7, you can get within 3km before diving. Just remember the closer you are, the less time you will have to get under before he sees you and starts zig-zagging. In order to hit him then, you may have to close to 500m to be successful.

4. I don't know about this area so much. I play the patched stock game that provides a variety of ammunition types. In that case, it's a good tactic to alternate between AP (to crack the shell) and HE (to scatter the damaged parts). SS can be used as back up ammo, but they are underpowered and require more to do the same job, but it may be the only thing left you can throw, besides the galley sink.

[LordDakson]

Okay, thank you guys. I'm just gonna turb manual TDC off for a bit i think. being my first Subsim game and such, i think i need to master the finer points of controlling the sub before i get caught up in all the targetting, though i have been close several times :) Great feeling.

I'll also take the long way around too. Watching lets plays of it on youtube, it seems most people tend to go the long way around to the patrol grid. Sounds good to me :) its an enjoyable game anyway, so if it takes a little longer, its all good.

Thanks for the prompt replies, still happy to recieve any more advice. its such a deep and complex game that the more tips/hints and tricks the better!

And thank you for such a warm welcome, you guys are awesome!:D

[Aktungbby]

LordDakson!:Kaleun_Salute:

[depthtok33l]

1. Using Wazoos guide, everything seems to go along as planned, i spot the target, mark the bearing and range, work out its speed in knots, plot a 90 degree intercept point, intercept at 90. Firing solution, to my untrained eye looks good. I set the TDC stuff, (000 bearing and 90 port/starboard AoB) take a final range and open tubes and shoot. However, my torpedo seems to arrive late to the party (not by much, maybe 30-50ms?) every time. Are they spotting the torpedo and moving out of the way? or am i doing something wrong.


Try locking your periscope on to the target until your torpedo leaves the tube completely.

[Magic1111]

Hi there everyone :)
...


Welcome aboard!!! :salute:

[u crank]

Welcome to SubSim LordDakson. :salute:

[THEBERBSTER]

A Warm Welcome To The Subsim Community > LordDakson:subsim:
You Will Always Find Someone Here To Help You :sunny:
New To Silent Hunter <> Need Help <> Click On My Thread Link.:salute:
Subsim <> How To Donate <> See The Benefits <> Support The Community (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=2033119%23post2033119) :yeah:

Silent Hunter III from 2005 bring your game play to 2015 with the (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=220285)
LIVING SILENT HUNTER III EDITION 2015 Mega Mod:salute::salute::salute: (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=220285)

With this mega mod you can use manual targeting and then use the WO who has icons that will identify the target and give you a firing solution that you can use.
When the digital gyro angle shows 000 you fire.

[Kip336]

You could always add 1 knot to the target's speed when shooting

[Andrakis]

Are you pre-emptively opening your torpedo tubes? If you do not open them, there is a small delay as they open then the torpedoes fire. If you find your torpedoes slightly behind what you expect, this may be the culprit. I believe selecting the tube and pressing "q" will open the tube early.

[UKönig]

Are you pre-emptively opening your torpedo tubes? If you do not open them, there is a small delay as they open then the torpedoes fire. If you find your torpedoes slightly behind what you expect, this may be the culprit. I believe selecting the tube and pressing "q" will open the tube early.

Yep, that's good advice. I've been stung myself by not opening the bow caps on the tubes I intended to fire ahead of time... :/\\!!

[Zosimus]

If your torpedo arrives late it's because you have the speed wrong. The "Fast 90" method is (pardon my language) crap. The only advantage it has is that it is "more historically accurate."

Try http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=88961 to start. Once you have that method down, you can retry the fast 90 method.

Get closer to the target.
Fire salvos.

[GT182]

Okay, thank you guys. I'm just gonna turb manual TDC off for a bit i think. being my first Subsim game and such, i think i need to master the finer points of controlling the sub before i get caught up in all the targetting, though i have been close several times :) Great feeling.

I'll also take the long way around too. Watching lets plays of it on youtube, it seems most people tend to go the long way around to the patrol grid. Sounds good to me :) its an enjoyable game anyway, so if it takes a little longer, its all good.


LD, welcome aboard. :up:

Even not using manual targeting you'll be on a learning curve that's still not as easy as you might think. Good luck and go get 'em. :salute:

[Treacle1604]

Manual targeting is the most rewarding part, two methods that can be found on youtube is the 4 bearing rule using only your hydrophones to pinpoint ships course, speed and range, great for fog and bad weather. The other method been the 3:15 bearing rule. look em up and enjoy!

Other then that are you setting the torpedo depths to match the targets draft?
setting torp speed to fast under ranges of 3km and switching to impact also helps if you have the 90 Angle On Bow...

[K-61]

I know this is an older thread, but I have just been going through them and felt like I wanted to add a bit to this one, if not for the original poster, then for others who are new.

I am not yet up to manual targeting, but it is on my list of skills to learn. I feel as if I have mastered at a very proficient level the other aspects of commanding a virtual U-boat, except my flak gunnery, which sucks. I just can't see the planes in time and that gunsight, replicated on a computer screen is just too awkward for me to be good with it. I delegate the task to flak-qualified crewmen, but I will take to the deck gun myself on occasion. When I find myself screaming at the crew for repeatedly sailing valuable shells over the target, I throw them aside and take the gun myself to show them how it is done.

Fuel economy is a priority, especially if you have a small boat [IIA to D] and BdU gives you an Atlantic patrol grid if you are still based in Germany. Generally, the second sector on the telegraph is closest to best efficiency, but if you click on the little gadget to convert the gauge to individual knot increments and play around with the needle, and asking the nav officer, you will get to know your boat's best cruising speed.

Yes, it is tedious going slowly to your patrol grid, but hey, that was the same for real life crews. Unless of course you just want to have at it and choose unlimited fuel. Depends if you wish to sim or play. Me? I'm a reality nut and I will even assign myself "house rules" when I feel the game is too liberal. Thankfully, some clever mod designers have felt the same and modded it into their releases. One thing that bothered me was how you could reload external torpedoes while zipping along in bouncy seas. In real life, they set up a hoist on the deck and had to suspend the heavy torpedo over the hatch and delicately take it aboard. If they got attacked by surprise in the middle of the process, they had to either fight it out or cut away and discard the torpedo in order to dive. There was no way of "suspending" in time the reload process as the original game did. Now, thanks to the mod I am using [LSH2015] you must proceed slowly in calmer waters in order to reload externals and they have realistic routines incorporated which take into account the factors I mentioned. Makes you consider carefully when you reload externals. I find myself hauling off away from land some distance in order to minimize the air threat. So far I have been lucky, but I know my time is coming.

I always go around the top of the U.K. Yes, I have tried the channel a few times, but it is shallow and I like lots of depth under my keel, just as an aviator likes lots of altitude under his wings. It gives you more options when you have to evade. Few things make your sphincter pucker like being in shallow water, hearing an escort pinging and closing in on you and you can't dive deep to evade. It's almost suicide.

As well, if you go around the top, you can find a target-rich environment in the channel to the west of the top of the British Isles. I forget its name in real life; Stornoway? It leads into the Hebrides. Try it some time in an early war patrol, but keep your eyes peeled for airplanes and a few surface picket boats. They tend to use trawlers there and the odd airplane. I have never yet been brave enough to try it later in the war, guessing it would be suicidal. You may also find single ships around the Orkneys. In fact, the choke points tend to funnel targets. The convoys have to get around Ireland and either take the Celtic Sea on the south end, or the way in around the top of Ireland. Either way, they have to go through those areas. Just make sure you keep an eye on the depth under your keel as you get closer to land. The type II boats are good for these areas, but I would not want to take a IX in there. Just too big and unwieldy for confined waters, but I am sure some folks may disagree.

Torpedoes late to the party? Likely, as already mentioned, due to not having the doors open before firing. You can open them with the "Q" button, or right click on the weapons officer to go to his station. From there, left click and then move the view around until you see the lightboard for the tubes. You can click on the toggle switches to open and close them. If you start clicking on different tubes in the scope or UZO views, the doors can close automatically. Just make sure to check them before firing. I think it works like this: Open the doors, fire each torpedo. If you change tubes, for example to alter settings, and then go back to a previously selected tube, the doors may have closed. Check them to ensure they are open.

Getting close on the surface to enemy vessels is a skill you will learn over time. There are a number of factors to consider, which will help you to stay stealthy as possible. Obviously, night is darker than day, but other environmental factors come into play: moonlight, rain, fog. The harder it is for you to see him, it is even harder for him to see you. Your boat is down in the water. You can make it even lower and harder to spot by running with decks awash. Manually click on the depth gauge to drag the needle to the desired depth, but not too far or the game will consider it a dive and clear the watch crew, and you will have to hit the surface button to get them back up again. Stop just between the 7 and 8 metre markings and switch to an external view to see your boat sink lower into the water. Your surface speed will be degraded by the increasing hydraulic drag, so don't go decks awash early if you are smoking along trying to get closer to a fast target, or you may be slowed down too much to close the distance in time. If you have plenty of time, then it will not hurt to go decks awash sooner. I remember that GWX had a key shortcut for decks awash but I forget the key shortcut.

Another factor that affects your detection is speed. The faster you sail, the larger wake and rooster tail you leave behind. Your aspect is also important. Keep as much of your boat behind you as possible, i.e. head or tail first. Broadside presentation is easier to spot than head or tail on. If you use the stealth meter it can give you an idea of how stealthy you are, but it is not 100% reliable. I have been spotted when it was green, and crept in when it was red. Experience will teach you. If you are infiltrating convoy escort screens it is important to try to know where they are at all times and how far away they are, to give you an idea of how quickly you could be attacked if the merchantmen rat you out. You could only have seconds, so make it count. The farther away you fire torpedoes, the more time you will have to hightail it away on the surface using your diesels. But increased range also affects accuracy. Everything is a tradeoff. You will have to work out your own style. I like to get so close I get sunburn from the explosions. Most of my attacks are made from within the convoy columns, submerged, but I have at times also attacked from within the columns, surfaced at night. Fog and rain can help cloak you, but they also make it harder for you to see your targets and keep an eye on the escorts. The game makes it easier for the enemy to detect you than it was in real life. As well, historically the convoy columns were farther apart than 500 metres, which left enough room for bold captains to get inside them at night. I recall Otto Kretschmer talking one time about when he got into one convoy at night, he could see a crewman on deck smoking a cigarette. He was not detected and sailed right by that ship.

As for deck gun rounds, it is normal in GWX for there to only be HE, as explained already. This is a more historical loadout than the game's. AP was a round meant for heavier armour, such as that on warships. U-boats, in spite of what we can do in the game, avoided gunnery duels with naval vessels unless forced into it by desperation. You have to look at it from the point of view of a sub commander. One hole turns his sub into a surface vessel, permanently, thus robbing it of its only means of escape, to dive. U-boat gunners are also very vulnerable to counter-fire, quite naked. When a U-boat was forced to the surface, the enemy routinely strafed them in order to prevent the crew from even getting to their guns, should they choose to do so. As well, too many times a U-boat that did surface in view of the enemy managed to get under again. The enemy learned to hit them as hard and fast as possible to prevent this from happening. Gunnery duels with corvettes and destroyers was nowhere near as easy in real life as in the game. In fact, when I was a member over at the Ubi forum, a member posted a reference to the fact that only once did a U-boat have any success with its deck gun against a corvette. I can't recall if it sunk the corvette or only forced it to disengage. In addition to its main gun, a corvette also had other smaller firearms. I have even read accounts where crewmen were given machineguns such as the Lewis, which they propped on a railing to fire on a U-boat which they expected to force to surface. Everybody wanted a piece of the hate foe.

Hope this helps, or at least, informs.

As always, good luck and good hunting.

[Niedowidek]

Great text. I think it's a good reading not only for beginners.

[Sailor Steve]

I'm a reality nut and I will even assign myself "house rules" when I feel the game is too liberal.
A long time ago there was a thread about "house rules". I wish I could find it again, but so far I haven't been able to.

One thing that bothered me was how you could reload external torpedoes while zipping along in bouncy seas.
I always wait for a dead calm sea, and come to a complete stop while reloading externals. H.sie's patch does that for you.

I always go around the top of the U.K.
As do I. My reason is that OKM ordered them to never use the channel, and though he disagreed Doenitz enforced that rule.

Anyway, good post and good advice. :sunny: