View Full Version : McKinley out, Denali in
Torplexed
08-31-15, 07:31 PM
The White House announced Sunday that President Obama is changing the name of North America's highest peak. Mount McKinley — named after William McKinley, the 25th president, who served in the White House until his assassination in 1901 — is returning to its traditional Alaska Native name, Denali.
Obama will make a public announcement of the name change in Anchorage Monday, during a three-day visit to Alaska.
As Alaska's Newsminer reports:
"The mountain, which has been officially named after the 25th president of the United States since 1917, will now be recognized by the U.S. Board of Geographic Names by its original Koyukon Athabascan name."
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/08/30/436125678/obama-renaming-continents-highest-peak-from-mt-mckinley-to-denali
http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/12B40/production/_85280667_gettyimages-803604.jpg http://sharing.turnto23.com/sharescnn/photo/2015/08/31/1440981736_23412786_ver1.0_640_480.jpg
Not sure which would be scarier. Scaling Denali or staring at McKinley's beetle brows.
Apparently, McKinley's home state of Ohio is very upset over this. Maybe they can rename the tallest point in Ohio, Mt. McKinley. But in Ohio, that's probably a building.
Sailor Steve
08-31-15, 08:04 PM
How big of a kickback do you think they got from GMC? :D
Aktungbby
08-31-15, 08:13 PM
It's a marketing ploy to sell more trucks! Sierra, Tacoma even one for Napa's famed wine-corridor "Silverado":up: Trail; Colorado S-10; Shelby Dakota; and for our mountaineer Betanov with a Kukri...the TAV Heavy Gurkha; Canadian built on a Ford 550 chassis.:yeah: http://www.gmc.com/content/gmc/northamerica/usa/nscwebsite/en/index/vehicles/previous-vehicles/2015-sierra-denali/photos/exterior/jcr:content/mm_gal_c2/thumbnailArea/mm_gal_item_c2.img_resize.img_stage._1.jpg
Torplexed
08-31-15, 08:27 PM
All these trucks named after mountains. Must have good range. :O:
Buddahaid
08-31-15, 11:23 PM
Ohio may be upset but Alaska's been trying to get the name changed for something like 45 years.
Torplexed
09-01-15, 06:00 AM
Ohio may be upset but Alaska's been trying to get the name changed for something like 45 years.
Locally, I wonder why Mount Rainier is still named after a British Admiral. There have been efforts to get it changed back to the native name, but they seem to go nowhere.
http://britishlibrary.typepad.co.uk/.a/6a00d8341c464853ef019b001749f2970d-pi http://images.hngn.com/data/images/full/98027/mount-rainier.jpg?w=650
mako88sb
09-01-15, 11:36 AM
We have Castle mountain about an 1 1/2 hr drive from home up here in Canada that was renamed Mount Eisenhower from 1946 to 1979.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Mountain
Locally, I wonder why Mount Rainier is still named after a British Admiral. There have been efforts to get it changed back to the native name, but they seem to go nowhere.
Maybe they need to talk to Obama. Apparently he has the power to change the name as he sees fit, without needing to consult anyone else.
Betonov
09-01-15, 02:32 PM
Maybe in 10 years. I'm still to inexperianced to climb Denali. But in 10 years I'm going up there :yep:
I once worked with a lady who was originally from Alaska and she referred to the mountain as Denali (she was not a descendant of the original indigenous tribes) and that was way back in the 70s. Apparently, the citizens of the state seemed to prefer Denali over McKinley. Maybe if the Alaskans temporarily set fire to the Yukon River, Ohioans will feel less slighted...
It's not only trucks named Denali: right now, I'm wearing Denali shoes...
<O>
Tchocky
09-01-15, 03:02 PM
I thought Denali was a river in Egypt?
Platapus
09-01-15, 04:50 PM
Maybe they need to talk to Obama. Apparently he has the power to change the name as he sees fit, without needing to consult anyone else.
One can only assume that you are not knowledgeable of how this decision came about.
Hint: It was not Obama just deciding on his own. :nope:
Maybe they need to talk to Obama. Apparently he has the power to change the name as he sees fit, without needing to consult anyone else.
Yeah, that damn Obama! Handing all our good presidential mountains over to foreigners like the Alaskan natives!
Torplexed
09-01-15, 08:29 PM
I once worked with a lady who was originally from Alaska and she referred to the mountain as Denali (she was not a descendant of the original indigenous tribes) and that was way back in the 70s. Apparently, the citizens of the state seemed to prefer Denali over McKinley. Maybe if the Alaskans temporarily set fire to the Yukon River, Ohioans will feel less slighted...
That's my understanding from the times I've been up there. Alaskans usually only say Mt. McKinley when Denali confuses a Lower 48er. "Denali? Is that the one next to Mt. McKinley?"
Gargamel
09-02-15, 08:42 AM
Back in my climbing days, all the climbers called it Denali. Everyone I ever encountered that had anything to do with the mountain, called it Denali. Those who actually care about the mountain are, or should be happy, for this.
And being from Ohio, I could really not care about the presidential name.
I stand corrected....
The White House cited the authority of Interior Secretary Sally Jewell to change the name back to Denali. Jewell issued a secretarial order and signed it late last week.
I mistakenly assumed it took an act of congress to do it, and though it is in the works, it hasn't happened yet.
Efforts to change the peak's name back to Denali date back to 1975. The Washington Post reports that Sen. Lisa Murkowski (R-AK) recently added language in a spending bill that would reestablish the mountain's original name.
Quotes are from the article linked in the first post.
I don't care if they call it the Rock Candy Mountain but I have to wonder by what authority does the President change something that Congress has decided. I would think that if it took an act of Congress to name the mountain it should take an act of Congress to change it.
I don't care if they call it the Rock Candy Mountain but I have to wonder by what authority does the President change something that Congress has decided. I would think that if it took an act of Congress to name the mountain it should take an act of Congress to change it.
What you think and what the Constitution provides are two very different things. The President does have the power to countermand certain actions of Congress, much as Congress has the power to countermand the President. It's that whole "checks and balances" setup taught in Civics 101; you were probably out on the day it was taught. The President can veto an act of Congress; Congress can override the veto, but the Founding Fathers wisely made it difficult for Congress to override, requiring a 2/3 override majority vote in both Houses to do so. IIRC, the failure rate of override votes is just a bit over 90%...
As far as Executive Orders, the President has discretion to issue Orders or Proclamations, but does so within Constitutional context. Congress may pass laws to countermand Orders or may take the issue to the Federal courts and, ultimately, the Supreme Court. Again, the success rate of actions taken to countermand Orders or Proclamations is very, very slight. In the current situations related to Obama's Orders, the GOP has neither Congressional majority support to overturn nor substantial legal standing or basis for successful judicial challenges. Even if they did, they might be wary to establish precedents that may come back to bite them if "their guy" gets in office and starts issuing Orders or Proclamations the DEMS don't like. Such is the nature of politics and the Legislative Branch: it is often more politics than law...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_order
<O>
What you think and what the Constitution provides are two very different things...... It's that whole "checks and balances" setup taught in Civics 101; you were probably out on the day it was taught
Hey Vienna. Do me a favor and don't respond to my posts any more. I'm tired of the attitude.
Betonov
09-02-15, 01:58 PM
Do American summits include a stamp at the top like Alpine summits ??
If I decide to go a little ameri-hiking I want to know if I need a book to collect stamp marks :)
Do American summits include a stamp at the top like Alpine summits ??
If I decide to go a little ameri-hiking I want to know if I need a book to collect stamp marks :)
Stamps are communist, there's a revolver up the top, you shoot the book with different ammunition depending on the mountain. :yep:
Wolferz
09-02-15, 02:26 PM
Do American summits include a stamp at the top like Alpine summits ??
If I decide to go a little ameri-hiking I want to know if I need a book to collect stamp marks :)
If you find no stamp up there...
Try .... Denalistamps.com
[
Betonov
09-02-15, 03:05 PM
And remember, you don't have a naming problem when it comes to mountains.
We have a mountain named Triglav, which transaltes to three heads, it's in the national crest as a three peaked mountain and when you look at it it looks nothing like it has three peaksand it sits a few kilometers south of a mountain with three peaks that is not named three heads.
http://i.imgur.com/HQd7SvQ.jpg?3
Platapus
09-02-15, 07:39 PM
I don't care if they call it the Rock Candy Mountain but I have to wonder by what authority does the President change something that Congress has decided. I would think that if it took an act of Congress to name the mountain it should take an act of Congress to change it.
1. It was not the President who changed this, but the Secretary of the Interior. The President had to approve the Secretary's order. But it was a Secretary Order not an Executive Order.
2. The Board on Geographic Names has initial responsibility, not Congress. In this case Congress established the Mount McKinley National Park in 1917, but dealt with naming a park and not the mountain itself.
3. 43 U.S.C. section 364b specifically gives that Secretary the authority to make this decision if the board does not make a decision in a reasonable amount of time.
Since the Congress has been blocking the Board from making this decision for 40 years, the Secretary under section 364b is making the decision. If congress can't make a decision in 40 years, I think someone should step in and make the decision for them. That is the issue here. No one is going against any decision of Congress.. Congress would not make any decision.
Torplexed
09-02-15, 07:42 PM
Do American summits include a stamp at the top like Alpine summits ??
If I decide to go a little ameri-hiking I want to know if I need a book to collect stamp marks :)
As on most US peaks, there is a geological survey marker up there. Looks like it may need an update on the name. Yeah, don't disturb it. It's sleeping. :O:
http://www.summitpost.org/images/original/781665.jpg
Platapus
09-02-15, 07:42 PM
Considering that probably 75% of American's did not know much about this mountain before this issue came up and since I would opine that given an outline of Alaska, about 95% of the citizens could not locate this mountain, this is really not that big of a deal. :nope:
If the Ohio legislation wants to name one of their mountains after their local president, they should have that right.
Since the Congress has been blocking the Board from making this decision for 40 years, the Secretary under section 364b is making the decision. If congress can't make a decision in 40 years, I think someone should step in and make the decision for them. That is the issue here. No one is going against any decision of Congress.. Congress would not make any decision.
What is meant by blocking? Being unable to make a decision is one thing but actively blocking or forbidding a change to something that was decided upon long ago is another.
What is meant by blocking? Being unable to make a decision is one thing but actively blocking or forbidding a change to something that was decided upon long ago is another.
As far as I understand, it was essentially turned into a partisan issue by northern Republicans with a historical connection to President McKinley. As their voters could largely care less about that particular issue, they could afford to continue stalling any efforts and campaigns to rename it by their own self-interest, regardless of petitions made by Alaskans.
Blocking is not forbidding; forbidding is actually saying "no", actually making a decision. Not making a decision is just that: neither "yes" nor "no". Not doing something is either indecision or inaction. It is not leadership or governance, by any means...
Platapus has it right and has the cites to back up the facts. As I said before, such is the nature of politics and the Legislative Branch: it is often more politics than law...
<O>
As far as I understand, it was essentially turned into a partisan issue by northern Republicans with a historical connection to President McKinley. As their voters could largely care less about that particular issue, they could afford to continue stalling any efforts and campaigns to rename it by their own self-interest, regardless of petitions made by Alaskans.
I dunno, it's only been since 2011 that the Republicans have had control of Ohio's senate delegation so I think it must be something else.
I think it was more than just an Ohio issue, though.
It doesn't seem like it was an instance of overstepping constitutional powers - but what I think could be said, rather, is that Obama played a strong hand (or perhaps overplayed it) and did so perhaps also for partisan reasons.
I think it was more than just an Ohio issue, though.
Everything seems partisan these days but as far as I can tell the only real historical opposition has been from Ohio's congressional delegation and they've been both Dem and Repub through the years.
Betonov
09-03-15, 02:06 PM
As on most US peaks, there is a geological survey marker up there. Looks like it may need an update on the name. Yeah, don't disturb it. It's sleeping. :O:
http://www.summitpost.org/images/original/781665.jpg
I just need an inkpad with me and there's my stamp :03:
And a bottle of acetone, I'm not going to leave it dirty. Take only pictures, leave only footprints.
Aktungbby
09-03-15, 02:19 PM
I just need an inkpad with me and there's my stamp :03:
And a bottle of acetone, I'm not going to leave it dirty. Take only pictures, leave only footprints.
PSSST make the trip worthwhile and make 'em crazy!!! have a set of these with you when you summit!:up: They'll be in "denali' about it for years!:O:http://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/article-1334664087028-12a1c05f000005dc-284914_636x391.jpg
Wolferz
09-03-15, 02:24 PM
PSSST make the trip worthwhile and make 'em crazy!!! have a set of these with you when you summit!:up: They'll be in "denali' about for years!:O:http://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/article-1334664087028-12a1c05f000005dc-284914_636x391.jpg
Yuppers.
Nobody says you must leave your own footprints.:haha:
Betonov
09-03-15, 02:27 PM
Don't worry, I'll make enough animal souds that they'll believe there's a sasquatch up there without footprints :03:
Platapus
09-03-15, 02:58 PM
I don't think the issue with congress was a political party partisan issue. As August accurately pointed out, the control of the Ohio Legislation changed parties a few times.
So it was not a Republican vs Democrat issue, to me it was a state vs state.
For some reason, Ohio has a high opinion of McKinley. McKinley always ranks pretty low on my list of presidents. But they like him. And the did not like the idea of their dude losing the name of the highest mountain in the US.
Since the last think Ohio wanted was for the other states to vote on this issue, the only way to maintain the status quo was to simply prevent any vote. No votes tend to maintain the status quo.... a win for Ohio.
And they pulled it off for 40 years which is pretty good.
Did a little research for some facts about the Ohio GOP:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio_Republican_Party
Seems like the Ohio GOP has had more than a little influence on US national politics. As far as this being a partisan ploy, it most probably is given House Speaker John Boehner is politically the Senior Representative from Ohio. It somewhat like Obama giving Boehner the political 'finger'. The whole Denali uproar in Ohio puts the ball squarely in his court; the failure to preserve the name McKinley is bound to be a noisome irritant when he has to answer to the voters back home, although he could try to use it against Obama with his constituents. The big problem there is Obama will be gone after January 2017 and Boehner's ability to use the issue against any DEM nominee will be limited given the issue really has no real national significance...
<O>
Torplexed
09-03-15, 07:45 PM
I'd be curious to know how many Canadians still use the term Queen Charlotte Islands instead of the new name of Haida Gwaii.
The name Haida Gwaii is a modern coinage and was created in the early 1980s as an alternative to the colonial-era name "Queen Charlotte Islands", to recognize the history of the Haida people."Haida Gwaii" means "islands of the people", while "Haida" on its own means not only "us" but also "people". On December 11, 2009, the BC government announced that legislation would be introduced in mid-2010 to officially rename the Queen Charlotte Islands as Haida Gwaii. The legislation received Royal assent on June 3, 2010, formalizing the name change. This name change is officially recognized by all levels of Canadian government.
But being a modern invention will it catch on? :hmmm:
Aktungbby
09-06-15, 12:10 PM
1901: William McKinley was shot and mortally wounded by anarchist Leon Czolgosz at the Pan American Exposition. he died eight days later. His killer was executed OCT 29,1901...justice was swift in them-thar days. They say you die twice; the first, when you stop breathing and the second, when somebody says your name for the last time...when they take your name off your Mountain, it begins! His successor, Theodore 'Teddy' Roosevelt, came to the office. Just to be even-handed here I propose removing his name off of Mt Theodore Roosevelt in the Black Hills of South Dakota-the monumental monument at nearby Mt Rushmore will suffice!:D(Bully) http://www.summitpost.org/images/medium/783485.jpg (http://www.summitpost.org/images/original/783485.jpg)and restoring the traditional Lakota Sioux name for the region Mt Páha Sápa. No big stretch IMHO; we took John F. Kennedy's name off and re-renamed Cape Canaveral...Cape Canaveral:up:...he at least has an eternal flame at Arlington!
Sailor Steve
09-06-15, 12:53 PM
And he still has the John F. Kennedy Space Center at Cape Canaveral. :sunny:
Aktungbby
09-06-15, 01:07 PM
And a Library !:know: and a decommissioned(2007) carrier CVA-67 available for use as a museum. The name has been adopted by the future Gerald R. Ford-class (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_R._Ford_class_aircraft_carrier) aircraft carrier John F. Kennedy (CVN-79) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_John_F._Kennedy_(CVN-79)) :salute:https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9a/Uss_john_f_kennedy_cv-67.jpg/1024px-Uss_john_f_kennedy_cv-67.jpg
Torplexed
09-06-15, 01:25 PM
In a rather interesting development to this story, some conservatives who are geographically challenged have starting spreading a rumor (or grabbed on to a internet joke) that Denali is Kenyan for "Black Power." Which is priceless as there is no such language as Kenyan.
http://www.mediaite.com/online/no-denali-is-not-a-kenyan-word-for-black-power/
http://static01.mediaite.com/med/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/denali-kenyna-word-for-black-power-meme-650x403.jpg
The stupid. Sometimes it burns. Sometimes it freezes. :/\\!!
Platapus
09-06-15, 02:24 PM
In a rather interesting development to this story, some conservatives who are geographically challenged have starting spreading a rumor (or grabbed on to a internet joke) that Denali is Kenyan for "Black Power." Which is priceless as there is no such language as Kenyan.
http://www.mediaite.com/online/no-denali-is-not-a-kenyan-word-for-black-power/
http://static01.mediaite.com/med/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/denali-kenyna-word-for-black-power-meme-650x403.jpg
The stupid. Sometimes it burns. Sometimes it freezes. :/\\!!
Before posting stuff like this, please warn us so we can stock up on Facepalms. It is not fair to spring this on us unprepared.
Now I have to borrow a few facepalms since I ran out.
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