Stock Market update: Everybody panic!

[Rockstar]

Chinas growth slowing. US stock market taking a header. DOW close to closing for seven minutes to regroup.


http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx221/B_Oceander/GIF_Animations/Chicken_no_head.gif (http://s758.photobucket.com/user/B_Oceander/media/GIF_Animations/Chicken_no_head.gif.html)

[ikalugin]

Well it looks like we could be hitting 2nd crisis wave? Feels like great depression, with revolutionary power on the rise and various "new" actors rising to chalenge the existing world order.

[Eichhörnchen]

http://i.imgur.com/oeS4rUn.jpg

[STEED]

Who cares these b'stards do as they please.

[mapuc]

The problem is, those who's behind this stock market crisis is those who also will go free and perhaps win

While the poor will be punished and maybe have to pay more.

Markus

[Moonlight]

Here we go again.
Nearly £74bn was wiped off the value of the FTSE 100 as the UK had its biggest one day fall since March '09

"George Osborne, the UK’s Chancellor of the Exchequer, has warned that China’s stock market volatility is a “real concern”.

This is just day one, I'm sure there's going to be more of them, if those traders really start panicking we're going to have another global crisis on our hands again.

The stock markets have had the jitters for a while, it seems to be hotting up into something a lot bigger, if they don't nip this in the bud now it could get even more serious than the last one. Its not time to batten down the hatches just yet, but as the boy scouts say, "be prepared".

[Oberon]

This jutter has been coming for a while. I imagine the 'China is going to eat our economy' folks are looking a little sheepish right about now as people get to see just how fragile their economy really is when faced with a long term downturn in the commodities market.
In a way this has been in the pipeline since 2008, it's just had a long lag time to get here because China has been able to remain competitive until recently, but now it's having to devalue the Yuan in order to keep its edge over western markets.
For nations exporting from China it's not that bad, but for those exporting to China it's pretty horrible news. Australia is being hit pretty bad, Brazil too, and African nations are going to feel the pain.
Couple this with the falling oil prices, and the outlook in the coming months is...difficult. I wouldn't have said that we face another major crisis unless the bottom should fall out of the Chinese economy (which would require some major incompetence by the PRC government) but we're certainly going to dance around the edge a bit.

Still, at least all the Beckists who brought their gold have that to fall back on...right?

http://i.imgur.com/VBpgeVp.jpg

http://americablog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/glenn-beck-crying.jpg

[Jimbuna]

Most worrying, I closed my last FTSE based investment in June but young Buna is still locked in.

[Schroeder]

Seriously, have we ever been in a phase with no crisis over the last 10 years? I think there was always something going on. It's getting old. Besides Chinas economy is growing by 7% and everybody is going bonkers.:doh:

[Betonov]

Damn, gold is sooooo looooow and I'm too broke to buy :/\\!!
Someday some fatcats will decide they bought enough gold and the price will go up so they can sell it and I won't be there :wah:

[Oberon]

Seriously, have we ever been in a phase with no crisis over the last 10 years? I think there was always something going on. It's getting old. Besides Chinas economy is growing by 7% and everybody is going bonkers.:doh:

The problem is that we're now in an era where the game is not what is happening now but what might happen next. The bloody speculative market, and that has shown a steady downward slope on the PRCs growth rate, so even though it's still miles ahead of most other nations the fact that it's slowing gives the markets the jitters. :/\\!!

[vienna]

I don't really see a chance of a severe situation as occurred in 2007-2008. This is just a long overdue correction, in the US, of the market, something that happens, until recent years, with fair regularity. Also, the key players in Federal financial strategy now are not the same ones we saw in the Bush administration who fiddled while Wall Street went on an arson spree. This situation may have a broader impact on China, but, after the keel settles, we'll still be afloat...


<O>

[Oberon]

I don't really see a chance of a severe situation as occurred in 2007-2008. This is just a long overdue correction, in the US, of the market, something that happens, until recent years, with fair regularity. Also, the key players in Federal financial strategy now are not the same ones we saw in the Bush administration who fiddled while Wall Street went on an arson spree. This situation may have a broader impact on China, but, after the keel settles, we'll still be afloat...


<O>

Yeah, the US is in a better place to weather any problems than the PRC. My primary concern is if China does suffer severely from an economic problem what kind of social-political knock-on effects it would have. :hmmm:

[Betonov]

More saber rattling to shift the internal focus to an outside enemy.
That will be first.

I doubt Chinas export will fall, I can't see the pencil and cheap trinket industry moving back to Europe or US.

[mapuc]

For month I have been speculating in making a post about economy

Throughout the years I have tried to follow the economical news about the stock market a.s.o

We have had crisis since dawn of time or when we started to use money and stocks was available.

Is there a solution ? a solution so we will never see crisis like this one ?

Markus

[Jimbuna]

For month I have been speculating in making a post about economy

Throughout the years I have tried to follow the economical news about the stock market a.s.o

We have had crisis since dawn of time or when we started to use money and stocks was available.

Is there a solution ? a solution so we will never see crisis like this one ?

Markus

Make everybody so rich that money no longer holds any attraction.

[mapuc]

Make everybody so rich that money no longer holds any attraction.


What happen to the moneys strength if we make so much that it over flood the market ?

Will we see another version of Reichmark ?

Markus

[Betonov]

The best thing we can do is rationaly spend money during boom times and not borrow more than we can pay in the bad times.
So when the fat cats decide they need a crisis we can survive with without much hinderence.

And maybe randomly impale a spoiled rich brat every now and then to remind them who's the minority.

Wishfull thinking though.

[Oberon]

Well, the Asian markets have opened down, but not as far down as people were expecting, so hopefully there's not going to be a feedback loop of loss. Korea and Australian stock went up, but the Nikkei took a hit due to fears that the Chinese crisis will push up the value of the Yen, thus hitting exports.

Honestly, at times like this, I defer to the wisdom of George W. Bush:

"It's clearly a budget, it's got a lot of numbers in it."

:doh:

[Lionclaw]

Honestly, at times like this, I defer to the wisdom of George W. Bush:

"It's clearly a budget, it's got a lot of numbers in it."

:doh:

:haha:

[vienna]

Well, the Asian markets have opened down, but not as far down as people were expecting, so hopefully there's not going to be a feedback loop of loss. Korea and Australian stock went up, but the Nikkei took a hit due to fears that the Chinese crisis will push up the value of the Yen, thus hitting exports.

Honestly, at times like this, I defer to the wisdom of George W. Bush:

"It's clearly a budget, it's got a lot of numbers in it."

:doh:

Was he, perhaps, looking at a train schedule?...


<O>

[AVGWarhawk]

Long over due market correction that was forecasted from the looks of it. What we will see is low cost stocks purchased by the truckload and sat on for the long term growth.

[mapuc]

As long there are money, stocks and greedy people we will always have these economical crisis

Markus

[Oberon]

Bubbles have been growing and bursting since the days of Tulip trading.
The amount of money involved in modern bubbles is pretty spectacular though. :o

[swamprat69er]

Damn, gold is sooooo looooow and I'm too broke to buy :/\\!!
Someday some fatcats will decide they bought enough gold and the price will go up so they can sell it and I won't be there :wah:
Buy silver instead. Poor mans gold.

[Mr Quatro]

Long over due market correction that was forecasted from the looks of it. What we will see is low cost stocks purchased by the truckload and sat on for the long term growth.

Yep! :yep: That's what they do (you know who they is , right?)

All they needed was an excuse to go into bunker down mode and wait for the bottom to drop below what they sold it for and then buy it back, but I don't think it's all that simple due to what if some other stock dropped way below it's actual market value then they have to decide what is going to make the strongest buy back.

Interesting game they play, but it takes that something special to know when to sell and when to buy.

Do they have automatic sells and automatic buys software?

[Platapus]

One thing I feel confident about is that we can't fix the financial issue of the US quickly. Regardless of what some politician says.

It took us decades to get in to the situation, and it will probably take decades to get us out.

This country needs to commit itself to a multi-generation solution where spending and taxation can be adjusted while giving the economy time to stabilize with every incremental change.

The problem is that to a politician, the future is defined and bounded by the next election. Few politicians can think beyond that boundary. Since the budget comes from the House of Representatives, the future is 2 years as that is the length of a representative's term.

A politician is only interested in programs/plans that will result in a measurable benefit during their term so they can use that success to get re-elected.

No politician will approve a long term plan that may incur a short term disadvantage (cost) with a benefit that will occur in a future term... a term where the opposing party may be in office and therefore garner the benefit.

Hence, all we hear are short term "fixes" or worse idiotic grandiose plans for drastic changes.

We need a gradual, disciplined, well-thought out plan that offers a solution independent of political party but will be an American solution.

What politician will put the country before their party?

That's what is most frustrating for me. We have a way to fix our economic situation, but realistically, there is no way it will ever be implemented.

[Rockstar]

Well, there is a way ....


Vote PLATAPUS DICTATOR FOR LIFE!

you must admit it does have a nice ring to it. :D

[mapuc]

Have had this idea for years or so

I don't know how to put it on print

I'll try

Every country in the world is zeroed-Meaning the debt is cleared

It is of most important that before this is done-some international economical laws is made.

How, what and how many laws there has to be made I don't know. I don't know what should be in these laws.

My idea is that after a country is zeroed-they can not just go on the market and borrow billions of dollars/Euro or Lend other countries money.

I'm not an economist not even a lawyer. Just a simple idea

Markus

[Oberon]

Have had this idea for years or so

I don't know how to put it on print

I'll try

Every country in the world is zeroed-Meaning the debt is cleared

It is of most important that before this is done-some international economical laws is made.

How, what and how many laws there has to be made I don't know. I don't know what should be in these laws.

My idea is that after a country is zeroed-they can not just go on the market and borrow billions of dollars/Euro or Lend other countries money.

I'm not an economist not even a lawyer. Just a simple idea

Markus

Sadly, there's too many people profiting from other people being in debt for that to be a feasible option. Would be nice though and probably the only way that the world debt problem will ever be solved. Unfortunately it would probably also result in some pretty hefty hardships in poorer nations that require deficit spending in order to feed their people due to have a terrible GDP.

[mapuc]

Sadly, there's too many people profiting from other people being in debt for that to be a feasible option. Would be nice though and probably the only way that the world debt problem will ever be solved. Unfortunately it would probably also result in some pretty hefty hardships in poorer nations that require deficit spending in order to feed their people due to have a terrible GDP.

Thank you for your answer

You mentioned one thing I forgot

Countries with lower or terrible GDP-Well even here the laws has to protect these countries-how this should be made-I don't know

And a thing I forgot

Profiting-Same here-these laws shall be made to prevent these people to profiting on other people-Don't know how to explain it.

Let me give an example instead.

A company hire some foreigner to work in their factory-they get just barely enough so they have food for the day and they have to live together many in a small apartment ´cause they wouldn't have enough to pay a rent by them self. The different, between the salary and the price the company takes for its product-the company owner take for them self.

That is profiting on other people or some of it-there are many ways to do so.

Markus

[STEED]

Panic over business as normal or as they would say what panic where?

[Jimbuna]

Many will have lost out but many will have grasped the recent opportunities on offer and made substantial gains.

[Onkel Neal]

I'm hoping for a few more corrections. I just sold my Pearland house, would love a buying bargain in the next three months.

[Aktungbby]

Many will have lost out but many will have grasped the recent opportunities on offer and made substantial gains. Exactly; in settling my dad's decade-old portion of my mom's trust-mostly bonds and Coca Cola/conservative stuff, the market downturn, essentially a profit taking quick dump, would have saved capital gains on his 12 year's gains in value and avoided what a consider 'double taxation' w/o throwing in the the chronic devaluation of the dollar:...essentially printed paper to begin with. The recovery has taken that window of opportunity away...again. No problem: I'll just sit tight till they devalue the Yuan again. What is the non-gold backed dollar worth? is my biggest worry and 23 countries-no longer backing their currency with dollars-agree with me. I regard the stock market as essentially a giant government-run casino; it and the dollar are not reliable.:damn: Plan A:hmmm:: convert all to Swiss francs and move to Canada:yeah: Eh!
http://www.foxnews24x7.com/2013/04/10-most-expensive-currency-in-world.html (http://www.foxnews24x7.com/2013/04/10-most-expensive-currency-in-world.html)

[Oberon]

I'm hoping for a few more corrections. I just sold my Pearland house, would love a buying bargain in the next three months.

It's rare the bloody things come down, isn't it? Good if you're selling but trying to get back into the market at a decent level for the money... :dead:
Prices in the UK are getting a bit ridiculous now, pricing a lot of people out of the market, one would hope that this would bring them down but what happens instead is that the ones in ideal locations such as in holiday towns by the seaside get snapped up by holiday companies and rented out as holiday homes. :/\\!! Thus driving any youth out of the area. :/\\!!

Still, that's the system for you, if people can make $138k out of a former broom cupboard measuring 10ft by 8ft (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-19763791), or $261k for a 11ft by 7ft janitors storeroom (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6287375.stm), then they're not exactly going to stop are they?

[Betonov]

Slovenia is even worse off.
According to a research done there's enough apartments in Slovenia to house a 3 million population (current is 2 million) and people still live with their parents because a one room apartment is rented for a third on an average wage and companies go bust because lowering the rent to fill the places is preposterous. Better to sink than have lower than the pre-2008 projected profit. :/\\!! Bunch of mooorooooons, idiocracy.

[Onkel Neal]

It's rare the bloody things come down, isn't it? Good if you're selling but trying to get back into the market at a decent level for the money... :dead:
Prices in the UK are getting a bit ridiculous now, pricing a lot of people out of the market, one would hope that this would bring them down but what happens instead is that the ones in ideal locations such as in holiday towns by the seaside get snapped up by holiday companies and rented out as holiday homes. :/\\!! Thus driving any youth out of the area. :/\\!!

Still, that's the system for you, if people can make $138k out of a former broom cupboard measuring 10ft by 8ft (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-19763791), or $261k for a 11ft by 7ft janitors storeroom (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6287375.stm), then they're not exactly going to stop are they?

You're right, they won't stop. I don't blame them. When I stopped by a realtor earlier this year to get their take on homes selling in my area, I was shocked when I learned the local housing market is going wild. No wonder renters in the area cannot find a house (other than apartments, there are plenty of them). My current renter at the time was paying me about $300 under market. And he was chronically late, often 3 weeks at a time, and bounced two checks. He had no excuse, he made plenty of money (more than me), he just took advantage of my good nature. He had no shortage of toys (motorcycle, expensive tools, new truck, etc). When I discovered that my house had increased in value 40% in the last ten years, I gave him 30 days notice and sold it.

The thing is, house prices were high when I was his age. They are always high. In proportion to his salary, he could afford to buy, if he would be frugal and save a bit. All I can say is, if others can manage, so can youth. I would suggest giving up any thought of living on the seaside, that's for established, mature buyers. Find something that is a good value, invest in the equity, and stick with it. :03: Like you said, it's rare things come down, so get in and eventually you will be the seller.

[Oberon]

You're right, they won't stop. I don't blame them. When I stopped by a realtor earlier this year to get their take on homes selling in my area, I was shocked when I learned the local housing market is going wild. No wonder renters in the area cannot find a house (other than apartments, there are plenty of them). My current renter at the time was paying me about $300 under market. And he was chronically late, often 3 weeks at a time, and bounced two checks. He had no excuse, he made plenty of money (more than me), he just took advantage of my good nature. He had no shortage of toys (motorcycle, expensive tools, new truck, etc). When I discovered that my house had increased in value 40% in the last ten years, I gave him 30 days notice and sold it.

The thing is, house prices were high when I was his age. They are always high. In proportion to his salary, he could afford to buy, if he would be frugal and save a bit. All I can say is, if others can manage, so can youth. I would suggest giving up any thought of living on the seaside, that's for established, mature buyers. Find something that is a good value, invest in the equity, and stick with it. :03: Like you said, it's rare things come down, so get in and eventually you will be the seller.

The trouble with their runaway profits is that eventually you create a bubble so large that when it bursts it takes half the country with it.

If others can manage so can youth is somewhat of a generalisation isn't it, and I think if you look into it you might well find that the ratio of house price to pay is somewhat different than when you were young.
Take a look at the findings from 'RealityTrac' in March this year, they found that in the US house prices had increased over a two year period at a rate of over 16% greater than the average wage had. In fact in 76% of markets in the US, house price growth outpaces wage growth.
You are correct in what you say about finding cheaper house prices in certain areas, and unfortunately this is skewing the average age of householders in certain areas in ways that I believe will be detrimental in the long term to certain places. For example, a seaside tourist town will often consist of retirees, second home owners and businesses. The working youth have to travel into the town from areas around in order to supply services to the retirees, second home owners and businesses. This increases traffic which is already busy in summer periods because of the second home owners and tourist trade, and also leads to a situation where in winter the town depopulates dramatically.
Some how it still works, at the moment, but in my opinion it's not that healthy at all, and I honestly believe that it should be a persons right to live where he or she wants to, so if someone wants to stay near the place of their birth or near their parents they should be able to do so.

Still, that stuff is for people that can plan their future I guess. :haha:

[Politenessman]

Thank you for your answer

Profiting-Same here-these laws shall be made to prevent these people to profiting on other people-Don't know how to explain it.

Let me give an example instead.

A company hire some foreigner to work in their factory-they get just barely enough so they have food for the day and they have to live together many in a small apartment ´cause they wouldn't have enough to pay a rent by them self. The different, between the salary and the price the company takes for its product-the company owner take for them self.

That is profiting on other people or some of it-there are many ways to do so.

Markus

The problem with your idea Markus (as I understand it), is that it gives the company owner no incentive to own and operate a company, he is better off spending all his money on himself and creating few jobs in doing so.

The only thing worse than capitalism is everything else.

[Onkel Neal]

I honestly believe that it should be a persons right to live where he or she wants to, so if someone wants to stay near the place of their birth or near their parents they should be able to do so.

Here we go, more rights :D


Yeah, sorry, I tend to get preachy. :oops: Still, I was there in 1980, not sure about Reality Trak. Somehow, it can be done.

[Oberon]

Here we go, more rights :D


Yeah, sorry, I tend to get preachy. :oops: Still, I was there in 1980, not sure about Reality Trak. Somehow, it can be done.

Don't get me started on the right to arm bears. :yep: :O:

It can be done, but like with many things, it's getting harder and more expensive for our youth. That's a troubling legacy I think.

[Onkel Neal]

Well, everyone thinks life is hard. I remember my grandpa telling me about scrounging for firewood, and my father and his siblings did not know what a restaurant meal was until he was 17. Let me ask you this: do you think the current generation is as capable as previous? These days a hardship is slow internet.:shucks:

[Oberon]

Well, everyone thinks life is hard. I remember my grandpa telling me about scrounging for firewood, and my father and his siblings did not know what a restaurant meal was until he was 17. Let me ask you this: do you think the current generation is as capable as previous? These days a hardship is slow internet.:shucks:

Well, everyone has definitions of what hard is, really, don't they? But let's just say that I hold no expectations of long term survival for many people in the western world should something like an EMP occur.
We're all hooked into the wired world these days anyway, and thoroughly dependant on electricity for our survival, remove that and we're royally screwed.
Again though, you've got to be careful not to generalise, I know it's so very very easy and much more convienent to do so, but in doing so it tends to project biased opinions of vast demographics based upon a narrow selection.
There are just as many people, younger than me, who would be able to cope with a disastrous scenario better than many who are your age and older. To question the capability of the current generation, don't forget, is to also question the capability of the men and women of the current generation who have gone into Iraq and Afghanistan and come back. I would be loathe to question their capabilities to their face, lest I get a first hand demonstration to my deficit. :O:

[Onkel Neal]

Wait, I'm not talking about war or disaster

[mapuc]

The problem with your idea Markus (as I understand it), is that it gives the company owner no incentive to own and operate a company, he is better off spending all his money on himself and creating few jobs in doing so.

The only thing worse than capitalism is everything else.

I guess you're right.

Let me take an example from Denmark and peoples medicine or the need for it.

In the latest economical issue between the state and the community, the state couldn't give the community extra money, due to this many hospital has to cut down on workers, why ?

Profit hunters-that's why-
The medicine that is made cost maybe a little more than last year, but there are those, without guilt, who would not hesitate to sell their own children for money or in this case earn big profit on sick people.

It was them I was thinking about when writing my post.

Markus

[Oberon]

Wait, I'm not talking about war or disaster

Well, in that case to come back to:

do you think the current generation is as capable as previous?

Then the answer has to be yes, but in different things because we live in a world which has changed radically between generations so that the strengths of one generation do not necessarily dictate the strengths of the next.

[Onkel Neal]

So, people haven't changed, but life has become more difficult?

[ikalugin]

I wonder if one should regulate profits from reselling things, as such transactions do not generated added value.

[Betonov]

So, people haven't changed, but life has become more difficult?

Just more expensive.
We commute faster, have better acces to information, food is of better quality (hygene wise), work places are safer... but we have to work more to afford things than our fathers had.

[ikalugin]

Classical example - globaly it is easier to procure a mobile phone than gain access to clean tap water. So while we do have things our fathers did not (ie my father had to go through significant efforts to procure his first pair of jeans), it is more difficult to acquire others (ie so called "organic" food).

[Betonov]

Classical example - globaly it is easier to procure a mobile phone than gain access to clean tap water. So while we do have things our fathers did not (ie my father had to go through significant efforts to procure his first pair of jeans), it is more difficult to acquire others (ie so called "organic" food).

90% of organic food is another market rip off. I know what organic food is because I grow my own garden. Off topic rant over.

I know what you mean. But our countries were closed off to the western markets before 1990. Maybe that's the problem. Everyyone had enough money ecause the shelves were empty. Now everyone is broke because we can buy anything we want (even what we don't need)

[ikalugin]

LWhich is why you could compare personal incomes in terms of goods baskets rather than monetary values. In those terms Soviets were ok untill the gorby times or so I was told.

So, to clarify my core point - even though basket has changed (we get new goods and services) I am not convinced that the basket has expanded significantly intrinsic value wise, globaly.

[Betonov]

Problem today is that a lot of people can only afford half a basket while some can afford 50 baskets while they need only one. And they can do that because the half basket people are too affraid to demand their one full basket becasue the greedy pigs at the top will force them out of that one half basket because fair wages will force them to only have 45 full baskets and that is socialism :/\\!!

[Politenessman]

I guess you're right.

Let me take an example from Denmark and peoples medicine or the need for it.

In the latest economical issue between the state and the community, the state couldn't give the community extra money, due to this many hospital has to cut down on workers, why ?

Profit hunters-that's why-
The medicine that is made cost maybe a little more than last year, but there are those, without guilt, who would not hesitate to sell their own children for money or in this case earn big profit on sick people.

It was them I was thinking about when writing my post.

Markus

I have to disagree with you Markus, many of us and many of our relatives are alive right now because making medicine is profitable, if it wasn't nobody would do it.

It is a very expensive process and very risky - lots of drugs get refused approval to go to market and the money spent on them is largely wasted (there are very few profitable "secondary uses" like Viagra, which was meant to be a heart drug for the elderly), so to stay in business drug companies must make a decent profit on the drugs that they can sell.

On an individual level, would you rent your house out for a trivial return, just so someone can have a roof over their head? remember you have hundreds of thousands of dollars tied up in the asset, various ongoing costs related to it and massive liability issues if the house falls down and injures someone.
So of course you want a return that justifies the investment and the risk.

The drug companies spend billions on research, another company could get to market at any time with a better or even just a cheaper product and make it valueless, a regulator could, for good or spurious reasons, deny the ability to sell it on any one of a number of grounds, if it gets to market there are any number of potential liability issues - it could have an adverse effect when combined with another drug or even with something as normal as grapefruit juice and there is the fear of the disaster scenario like thalidomide.
So of course the drug companies want a return that justifies the investment and the risk.

If you are religious thank your god for the profit motive.

[Oberon]

So, people haven't changed, but life has become more difficult?

Yes, in particular more expensive and more demanding. Human beings are expected to keep up with machinery and electronic transfer rates which are increasing in speed all the time.

Going back to college, take this for example:

http://inflationdata.com/articles/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/education.jpg

[Onkel Neal]

Man, your researching prowess never fails to amaze. However, having two children who recently completed college and one who's midway through, I have a first-hand knowledge of the costs of higher education.:salute:

[Oberon]

Man, your researching prowess never fails to amaze. However, having two children who recently completed college and one who's midway through, I have a first-hand knowledge of the costs of higher education.:salute:

Well, then, you know that if they were to pay back their costs of higher education, starting on the low end of the pay-scale it would take them longer to do so than it took yourself. Of course, each individual case varies depending on the employment they are able to achieve post-college and the possibilities for career advancement within that field.

Stepping back though, and looking at the bigger picture, you can see that in many instances across the board costs have risen above the rate of inflation and above the rate of pay increases. Of course this is not universal, in some things the cost have actually decreased, certain food items for example have become cheaper thanks to mass manufacturing and large food store chains, in the UK there is a small crisis emerging over the cost of milk versus how much profit diary farmers are able to make, it's a double-edged sword really because whilst people are sure to want to be able to assist dairy farmers I'm not so sure whether this assistance will extend to paying an extra few quid for their milk. :hmmm:

I'm not saying that things were much easier in the past, that's a fallacy and the result of rose-tinted spectacles. Of course there were difficulties, but they were of a different kind, but equally one cannot say that everything has become easier for people in this age. Some things have, but other things have become more difficult.

[Onkel Neal]

College costs definitely has made things more difficult for this generation. No doubt. I also just finished paying off my own degree (hotel management, ha!). Yeah, as far as college goes, things are very different.

Also, I'm sure it varies according to region. Your hometown is probably very different from mine.

But I still contend in most other areas, life is easier for this generation. I took a mental survey of everyone I know under 30; young friends, young adult children of friends, etc. and I have to say, they are at the same place I was at that age, some better, some not as well along. I know some who have new cars, and nice homes in the $150-250K range. Adjusted for inflation (which has been extremely low for a long, long time here), the homes are about the same cost to income ratio. Some of the guys I worked with at the cycle shop still live in apartments and paycheck to paycheck, but they refuse to get better paying jobs. I know, I talked with them about it--why work retail for $11 an hour when Houston is full of chemical plants hiring and paying $25? They just don't want to do that kind of work. So, what do they expect?:06:

I grew up in the 70s, I remember what it was like then. It was easier than when my father grew up. And I raised children in the 90s and 2000s, they had it pretty good. I'll have to ask them if they think life is harder now than before, that will be interesting...

[Oberon]

College costs definitely has made things more difficult for this generation. No doubt. I also just finished paying off my own degree (hotel management, ha!). Yeah, as far as college goes, things are very different.

Also, I'm sure it varies according to region. Your hometown is probably very different from mine.

But I still contend in most other areas, life is easier for this generation. I took a mental survey of everyone I know under 30; young friends, young adult children of friends, etc. and I have to say, they are at the same place I was at that age, some better, some not as well along. I know some who have new cars, and nice homes in the $150-250K range. Adjusted for inflation (which has been extremely low for a long, long time here), the homes are about the same cost to income ratio. Some of the guys I worked with at the cycle shop still live in apartments and paycheck to paycheck, but they refuse to get better paying jobs. I know, I talked with them about it--why work retail for $11 an hour when Houston is full of chemical plants hiring and paying $25? They just don't want to do that kind of work. So, what do they expect?:06:

I grew up in the 70s, I remember what it was like then. It was easier than when my father grew up. And I raised children in the 90s and 2000s, they had it pretty good. I'll have to ask them if they think life is harder now than before, that will be interesting...

Well, exactly, but we didn't say that every aspect of life was more difficult for this generation, only certain factors, such as finance. :03: There are plenty of other instances where life is easier, I've seen enough documentaries about life in the Victorian era to know that my lot today is vastly improved than it would be in that era.
But, of course, with each improvement we also make new complications, and that in turn makes life more difficult in some areas. The rise of people suffering with depression possibly points to this, or equally it can also point towards a better recognition of the subject.

Besides, the question was that whether the current generation is as capable as the previous, and I maintain that they are but in different ways. :yep:

[Betonov]

But I still contend in most other areas, life is easier for this generation. I took a mental survey of everyone I know under 30; young friends, young adult children of friends, etc. and I have to say, they are at the same place I was at that age, some better, some not as well along.


Don't confuse the positive attitude we take on as easy living with a defense mechanism not to completely loose our minds with a world around us going to hell in a handbasket, inability to afford a roach motel apartment and constant cuts in services our parents took for granted.
Don't.

[AVGWarhawk]

College costs definitely has made things more difficult for this generation. No doubt. I also just finished paying off my own degree (hotel management, ha!). Yeah, as far as college goes, things are very different.

Also, I'm sure it varies according to region. Your hometown is probably very different from mine.

But I still contend in most other areas, life is easier for this generation. I took a mental survey of everyone I know under 30; young friends, young adult children of friends, etc. and I have to say, they are at the same place I was at that age, some better, some not as well along. I know some who have new cars, and nice homes in the $150-250K range. Adjusted for inflation (which has been extremely low for a long, long time here), the homes are about the same cost to income ratio. Some of the guys I worked with at the cycle shop still live in apartments and paycheck to paycheck, but they refuse to get better paying jobs. I know, I talked with them about it--why work retail for $11 an hour when Houston is full of chemical plants hiring and paying $25? They just don't want to do that kind of work. So, what do they expect?:06:

I grew up in the 70s, I remember what it was like then. It was easier than when my father grew up. And I raised children in the 90s and 2000s, they had it pretty good. I'll have to ask them if they think life is harder now than before, that will be interesting...

Certainly the expenses of day to day living before the late 80's is much less than what we experience today. For example, today's world just requires a cellphone and cable TV. Both of these cost. These are expenses my folks did not have before the late 80's.

[Onkel Neal]

That's exactly what I mean. The world today does not requires those two things. But a lot of people think they need them. Cable TV? Not everyone has that. Cell phones? Optional. People even buy water. Water! ;)

Don't confuse the positive attitude we take on as easy living with a defense mechanism not to completely loose our minds with a world around us going to hell in a handbasket, inability to afford a roach motel apartment and constant cuts in services our parents took for granted.
Don't.

What? I don't understand what you mean? What cuts in services? Please explain.

[Oberon]

That's exactly what I mean. The world today does not requires those two things. But a lot of people think they need them. Cable TV? Not everyone has that. Cell phones? Optional. People even buy water. Water! ;)

Once upon a time you could say the same thing about standard TV, or radio, or even newspapers. I would say though, in todays interconnected world that cell phones are becoming more and more essential. Of course, there's essential and there's essential. Essential is food and water, and access to some form of healthcare, those sort of things, the bare basics. But things essential to being in society, those vary from generation to generation. Most businesses these days complain and struggle if they don't have a good internet access, fifty years ago they didn't have it so they didn't need it, now they do.
The fact, though, that water, such an essential thing for human survival, is something that is charged for by either shops or by the water companies...well, that's something that makes me shake my head. :dead:

[Betonov]

What? I don't understand what you mean? What cuts in services? Please explain.

Healthcare, infrastructure, rescue services, education cuts, the how-poor-you-have-to-be to gain some tax cuts or benefits so your family doesn't starve is lower every year and every day I have to hear some poor sod with 3 cars, good connections and a spoiled brat sucking his thumb on a job he got becasue his daddy bent his ass to someone trying to tell me it's my fault I'm poor and how he had it tough paying 0 rent in goverment housing....
You might understand why I get a bit jumpy when my generations is blamed on everything while every graph and number shows me that the generation before a looooooot more money for their buck.
And I know I'm European, that's why I expect services. I pay taxes to be cared for. I pay taxes so I don't have to jump insurance hoops to get my asthma medicine, I pay taxes so my children can get a Univerity education without taking impossible loans and I pay taxes so I can drive on bridges that are not near collapse. Thats what my parents had for low taxes that left them enough money to build a house. I can't rent an apartment in the nearby steel town. And numbers wise I made 4 times what they made at my age.
And all that mobile phone crap, most of us buy one for 2 or more years. Just becasue some spoiled brats have a new iphone every week doesn't mean the whole generation is rotten. Just those that don't worry about money. Those who's parents have enough bad concience about screwing us bent over backwards to really be loud.
And everytime we demand better value for the tax we pay are called spoiled just because the poor generation before us had to drive around in cars that didn't had A/C.

[Onkel Neal]

Yeah, cell phones are very useful but not essential. I honestly would not even have one if not for a. Subsim and b. truck driver. I can afford it, so ok, but in later years, yah, maybe.

I agree about the water. Although, to be honest, I buy 24 packs of the cheapest stuff wal-mart sells to take in the truck. I guess I could fill a canteen at the truck stops but...hmm..that would sure look weird. But kinda cool at the same time...:hmmm:

But when I'm home I drink from the tap. Using a glass, of course :88)

Newspapers....what's that? At least these days, kids can get their music and movies free from the web.

[Onkel Neal]

Healthcare, infrastructure, rescue services, education cuts, the how-poor-you-have-to-be to gain some tax cuts or benefits so your family doesn't starve is lower every year and every day I have to hear some poor sod with 3 cars, good connections and a spoiled brat sucking his thumb on a job he got becasue his daddy bent his ass to someone trying to tell me it's my fault I'm poor and how he had it tough paying 0 rent in goverment housing....
You might understand why I get a bit jumpy when my generations is blamed on everything while every graph and number shows me that the generation before a looooooot more money for their buck.
And I know I'm European, that's why I expect services. I pay taxes to be cared for. I pay taxes so I don't have to jump insurance hoops to get my asthma medicine, I pay taxes so my children can get a Univerity education without taking impossible loans and I pay taxes so I can drive on bridges that are not near collapse. Thats what my parents had for low taxes that left them enough money to build a house. I can't rent an apartment in the nearby steel town. And numbers wise I made 4 times what they made at my age.
And all that mobile phone crap, most of us buy one for 2 or more years. Just becasue some spoiled brats have a new iphone every week doesn't mean the whole generation is rotten. Just those that don't worry about money. Those who's parents have enough bad concience about screwing us bent over backwards to really be loud.
And everytime we demand better value for the tax we pay are called spoiled just because the poor generation before us had to drive around in cars that didn't had A/C.


Ah, I see, thanks. I really cannot speak to that, the whole "taxes to be cared for" thing is a language I don't understand. You know how it works, everyone wants to pay as little as they can and get as much as they can... it's a hopeless situation.

I'm not saying the whole generation is rotten, I hope it doesn't come across as that. :dead: You for example, are one of the good ones.

Edit: Getting back to the topic, I bet you guys hate this dude :D
While Many Panicked, Japanese Day Trader Made $34 Million
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-08-28/while-many-panicked-japanese-day-trader-made-34-million



.

[Betonov]

I'm not saying the whole generation is rotten, I hope it doesn't come across as that. :dead: You for example, are one of the good ones.

It's a curse. I see the rottenes around me. I cannot ignore it. It makes me angry.

Ah, I see, thanks. I really cannot speak to that, the whole "taxes to be cared for" thing is a language I don't understand. You know how it works, everyone wants to pay as little as they can and get as much as they can... it's a hopeless situation.

Yugosalvia income tax was less than 15% and my parents had free healthcare, goverment apartment if they couldn't afford one of their own, free car if they lived in a rural area where there was no public transportation, free education and every book that was needed for the curriculum of the child was also free.

I had to pay 27% income tax. What did I get. Healthcare is still free, education is still free. I had to buy my own car despite me living in the middle of nowhere, the cheapest apartment would cost me more than a third of the wage monthly and luckily I don't have to spend €400 per year so my child has the needed books to pass the grade, becasue I'm mortally affraid to have children on the account I can't afford one.

I dont' want to pay as little as possible and get as much as possible. I may be a socialist but I'm not a hippie.
I just want to get as much as I paid for.

[Betonov]

Edit: Getting back to the topic, I bet you guys hate this dude :D
While Many Panicked, Japanese Day Trader Made $34 Million
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-08-28/while-many-panicked-japanese-day-trader-made-34-million





Nah, he made the right move at the right time.
Nothing to hate here.

[Oberon]

Nah, he made the right move at the right time.
Nothing to hate here.

Same...I mean, if you can make money without exploiting other people to do it, then that's fair game. I mean, Stock brokerage is a bit like gambling really, but a lot deeper admittedly. Would love to take a spin at it myself but I'd probably put my dosh on a company that goes Goldman Sachs. :O:

[Politenessman]

Certainly the expenses of day to day living before the late 80's is much less than what we experience today. For example, today's world just requires a cellphone and cable TV. Both of these cost. These are expenses my folks did not have before the late 80's.

At risk of stating the obvious. no it doesn't.
Most of the world has neither.
What has changed for many 1st world people is expectations and an ability to prioritise, they expect to be able to afford a high end mobile phone and TV/broadband and an annual vacation, a 'gap year' at the end of university and all sorts of things that were considered luxuries not that long ago and will take on debt to get it.
Also, in many cases a willingness to go into debt to study subjects that have no likelihood of paying that debt off - I put that down to well meaning fools telling their kids to study "what they love" or "follow their passion" rather than telling them to study what will pay and use that money to fund following their passion/doing what they love in their spare time.

[Politenessman]

Yugosalvia income tax was less than 15% and my parents had free healthcare, goverment apartment if they couldn't afford one of their own, free car if they lived in a rural area where there was no public transportation, free education and every book that was needed for the curriculum of the child was also free.

I dont' want to pay as little as possible and get as much as possible. I may be a socialist but I'm not a hippie.
I just want to get as much as I paid for.

I'd guess that there is most of your problem, much like Greece, you (as a society) chose free stuff and not to pay much tax to get it.

Unfortunately the money runs out and the societal Ponzi scheme of letting the next generation pay for it has gone off the rails, because in Europe, you haven't had a next generation (read up on the demographics, Mark Steyn has a number of entertaining books on the looming societal collapse in Europe). Advice, get out if you have a marketable skill, if you haven't, get a marketable skill and get out.

[Oberon]

https://31.media.tumblr.com/8791894a27d2930c8af9a22a541475e8/tumblr_mnc1k2n14z1r9hc9jo1_500.gif

[Betonov]

I'd guess that there is most of your problem, much like Greece, you (as a society) chose free stuff and not to pay much tax to get it.

Unfortunately the money runs out and the societal Ponzi scheme of letting the next generation pay for it has gone off the rails, because in Europe, you haven't had a next generation (read up on the demographics, Mark Steyn has a number of entertaining books on the looming societal collapse in Europe). Advice, get out if you have a marketable skill, if you haven't, get a marketable skill and get out.

Except that we don't excpect free stuff. We except a return on our taxes.
Greece collapsed because there was high level corruption sucking money dry with a population that used every trick in the book to avoid paying them. Greece would have floundered even without all the ''freebies'' we Euros get.
Slovenia has a good track record of paying taxes but has a high level corruption that is sucking us dry. Healthcare and education are not sucking us dry. Fat cats do. Teachers and doctors don't.
And then there's debt. Yugoslavia had 13,6 billion dollar debt in 1988. The countries that form the area today have a total debt of 184 billion dollars. Inflation ws not that high and the biggest share of that debt has Slovenia, which avoided the bloody mess of the nineties Balkans.

So how come the national debt skyrocketed when we lost a lot of the ''freebies'' my parents had. It doesn't make sense.

And move where, every other developed country has the same social system. Taxes for healthcare, education, roads.

And one more thing, there is no looming social collapse in Europe. Greece is Europe, but Europe is not Greece. We are angry, we are dissapointed, but we are still going about our business trying to get our collective asses organised enough to put some pressure on the fat cats. As we say in Slovenia: EU is bad, but imagine if we'd live in the US.

[Politenessman]

Except that we don't excpect free stuff. We except a return on our taxes.
Greece collapsed because there was high level corruption sucking money dry with a population that used every trick in the book to avoid paying them. Greece would have floundered even without all the ''freebies'' we Euros get.
Slovenia has a good track record of paying taxes but has a high level corruption that is sucking us dry. Healthcare and education are not sucking us dry. Fat cats do. Teachers and doctors don't.
And then there's debt. Yugoslavia had 13,6 billion dollar debt in 1988. The countries that form the area today have a total debt of 184 billion dollars. Inflation ws not that high and the biggest share of that debt has Slovenia, which avoided the bloody mess of the nineties Balkans.

So how come the national debt skyrocketed when we lost a lot of the ''freebies'' my parents had. It doesn't make sense.

And move where, every other developed country has the same social system. Taxes for healthcare, education, roads.

And one more thing, there is no looming social collapse in Europe. Greece is Europe, but Europe is not Greece. We are angry, we are dissapointed, but we are still going about our business trying to get our collective asses organised enough to put some pressure on the fat cats. As we say in Slovenia: EU is bad, but imagine if we'd live in the US.

At risk of stating the obvious, where do you think that debt comes from? as a society, you lived beyond your means and as the debt goes up, so does the interest rate (because you are a bigger default risk), which means less money to provide the 'free' services, so they get cut AND taxes go up.

You misunderstand the crisis you face, the financial one is a disaster, but the demographic one is existential, it means you won't have the tax base to pay for your debts or services.

Move where? look for a country where they are having enough children to pay the taxes for the services you will need as you age, it helps if the country isn't running major deficts too.

[Oberon]

look for a country where they are having enough children to pay the taxes for the services you will need as you age, it helps if the country isn't running major deficts too.

So somewhere in Africa, or wherever there's a major war going on.

Peak child isn't just a European or American thing, it's a global thing caused by the improvement of medical practices and standards of living. When living standards go up, when children stop dying before they reach double figures then people have less children. It's a natural progression.

Does that mean we're going to have to pay for the aging population? Yes, of course it does, we're already seeing a massive rise in dementia rates and housing for old people, but that's just how it goes. You cannot have a constantly youthful population, it will swing between the two, because if you were to have a constantly youthful population growth then you would soon outgrow the planet you live on. We're already over 7 billion in total on this planet, mostly clustered in certain areas because we don't have the financial incentive to spread out more. Thus, trapped within the financial constraints we have made for ourselves, increasing the global population at a reckless pace is foolhardy. Unless you plan to go Logans Run and kill everyone when they reach 40. :O:

[Betonov]

You misunderstand the crisis you face, the financial one is a disaster, but the demographic one is existential, it means you won't have the tax base to pay for your debts or services.



You missunderstand Europe. No wonder since you quoted Mark Steyn and after a research of his works I have concluded that I wouldn't use those books for fertilizer. They're a load of crap, but they lack actual nutritional values to be an actual manure.

Don't you worry your pretty litle head about Europe. We always find a way to deal with these problems, the hard way or the easy way. So we'll just have to pay our own pensions as we work and not relly on the younger generation for it. And maybe start educating our children on more savy financial maneouvers like investing money in growing markets so there's always a possible second income. Maybe we will turn hard left, nationalize our industries, throw the greedy fat cats into jail and live off the billions they wouldn't share. Maybe we'll turn far right, throw out anyone that doesn't fit in. Maybe we'll finally see the old generation without ideas die out and start a new world that's focused on prosperity rather than cheap political scoring.

European first half century is always turbolent which then evens out to second half of prosperity. So I chose the interesting time to get born.

[AVGWarhawk]

At risk of stating the obvious. no it doesn't.
Most of the world has neither.
What has changed for many 1st world people is expectations and an ability to prioritise, they expect to be able to afford a high end mobile phone and TV/broadband and an annual vacation, a 'gap year' at the end of university and all sorts of things that were considered luxuries not that long ago and will take on debt to get it.
Also, in many cases a willingness to go into debt to study subjects that have no likelihood of paying that debt off - I put that down to well meaning fools telling their kids to study "what they love" or "follow their passion" rather than telling them to study what will pay and use that money to fund following their passion/doing what they love in their spare time.

No one expects to afford a high end mobile. There are plenty pay as you go flip phones. But, in the 80's there was public pay phones on every corner. Not anymore. A mobile phone is a necessity. The street corner .10 cent phone is not longer available. Calling a cab or setting up a drug deal from a payphone is not longer a option. And as with the automobile, life has been directed with the use of an automobile. Life is also directed with the use of a cellphone. Many business, including my own, require a cellphone. In the 80's a cellphone was not required in places of employment.

Television, in my neck of the woods a special box is required to still received "free" television. The free TV channel selection is very minimal.

I'm not sure why the tangent on telling kids what to study, follow a passion or what they love have to do with expenses of cable TV and a cell phone.

[Politenessman]

So somewhere in Africa, or wherever there's a major war going on.

Peak child isn't just a European or American thing, it's a global thing caused by the improvement of medical practices and standards of living. When living standards go up, when children stop dying before they reach double figures then people have less children. It's a natural progression.

Does that mean we're going to have to pay for the aging population? Yes, of course it does, we're already seeing a massive rise in dementia rates and housing for old people, but that's just how it goes. You cannot have a constantly youthful population, it will swing between the two, because if you were to have a constantly youthful population growth then you would soon outgrow the planet you live on. We're already over 7 billion in total on this planet, mostly clustered in certain areas because we don't have the financial incentive to spread out more. Thus, trapped within the financial constraints we have made for ourselves, increasing the global population at a reckless pace is foolhardy. Unless you plan to go Logans Run and kill everyone when they reach 40. :O:

"Peak child" has nothing to do with it, it just lowers the figure to reach replacement rate, before you comment further I'd suggest you read up on demographics otherwise you are at risk of making a fool of yourself.

[Politenessman]

No one expects to afford a high end mobile. There are plenty pay as you go flip phones. But, in the 80's there was public pay phones on every corner. Not anymore. A mobile phone is a necessity. The street corner .10 cent phone is not longer available. Calling a cab or setting up a drug deal from a payphone is not longer a option. And as with the automobile, life has been directed with the use of an automobile. Life is also directed with the use of a cellphone. Many business, including my own, require a cellphone. In the 80's a cellphone was not required in places of employment.

Television, in my neck of the woods a special box is required to still received "free" television. The free TV channel selection is very minimal.

I'm not sure why the tangent on telling kids what to study, follow a passion or what they love have to do with expenses of cable TV and a cell phone.

You don't need a mobile phone, nor do you need a car, or for that matter, a TV - they are lifestyle/financial choices you make and if your workplace requires a mobile phone, they can supply it.

If you 'need' a mobile phone to set up your drug deals, you have bigger issues than phone affordability to be getting on with.

Re telling people what to study, you might have noted people were complaining about University debts in this thread, perhaps reading the thread before commenting on 'tangents' would be helpful in future?

[Betonov]

No one will employ you here if you don't own a mobile phone and employers will give people with their own cars preference in employment.
And lets not forget internet. You can't even send a job aplication anymore without an e-mail adress. Well, you can but without an e-mail adress at the header your aplication will roam straight to the ignore and shred pile.

And mobile phones are cheap, they're no longer a luxury for the rich. I paid €200 for my phone, it's still going strong 2 years later, my monthly charge is a fixed €10. That's not luxury, that's cheaper than food.

[AVGWarhawk]

You don't need a mobile phone, nor do you need a car, or for that matter, a TV - they are lifestyle/financial choices you make and if your workplace requires a mobile phone, they can supply it.

If you 'need' a mobile phone to set up your drug deals, you have bigger issues than phone affordability to be getting on with.

Re telling people what to study, you might have noted people were complaining about University debts in this thread, perhaps reading the thread before commenting on 'tangents' would be helpful in future?

Sure, you don't need a phone or car...if you live in the city. Even so, no street corner public phones. So yes, if one want to enjoy city life without phone/car they can. And get grip, not all companies pay for your cellphone if used for company business. The reason being the phone can be used for personal use. My last job in sales required a phone at my expense.

Please note I have two daughters in college and well aware of the cost for higher education. The thread concerned the stock market. So why the tangent on university debt in the thread at all?

[Oberon]

Please note I have two daughters in college and well aware of the cost for higher education. The thread concerned the stock market. So why the tangent on university debt in the thread at all?

I think it was down to the old 'Young people have it too good' syndrome.

[Oberon]

https://41.media.tumblr.com/747e0a7b1f01068d37100e000ab7184b/tumblr_nkg2t0oH1O1r0wmy9o1_250.jpg

Massive sell off in US stocks, the DOW has slumped over 300 points, oil prices slipped below $30 a barrel for the first time in over a decade, and the Chinese economy is an ongoing concern.
Earlier this week an internal note in RBS was leaked, written by an Andrew Roberts its advice was 'Sell mostly everything' (http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/01/sell-everything-heres-the-incendiary-rbs-warning-on-deflation-risk-and-the-next-crash/).

The Bull Run looks to be drawing to a close, prepare for the Bear. :03:

[STEED]

All part of we must keep that I.O.U paper going.

[Mr Quatro]

Massive sell off in US stocks, the DOW has slumped over 300 points, oil prices slipped below $30 a barrel for the first time in over a decade, and the Chinese economy is an ongoing concern.


U.S. stock markets sharply lower on Friday, with the Dow Jones industrial average briefly declining more than 500 points.

This news is even more disturbing for USA and China:http://abcnews.go.com/Business/walmart-shut-269-stores-globally-including-154-us/story?id=36315019

Walmart is closing 269 of its stores, including 154 locations in the United States, the company said today.

[Oberon]

U.S. stock markets sharply lower on Friday, with the Dow Jones industrial average briefly declining more than 500 points.

This news is even more disturbing for USA and China:http://abcnews.go.com/Business/walmart-shut-269-stores-globally-including-154-us/story?id=36315019

Walmart is closing 269 of its stores, including 154 locations in the United States, the company said today.

Crikey, things must be bad if even Walmart are feeling the bite.

Not good, not good at all. :nope:

[Skybird]

There is no crisis. There is only a stubborn reality that refuses to comply with political demands for money growing on trees. :88)

Wait until the FED again needs to LOWER service rates! First it will be the laughter that is deafening your ears. Then the desperate yelling. ;)

[Oberon]

And yet it's a reality that we and the rest of the world live in, so for all intents and purposes, there is a crisis....well, one brewing at least. :hmmm:

[STEED]

Dump paper money and invest in Bit Coin or physical Gold and Silver, not shares the real thing you need.

[Skybird]

This cup of tea is brewing since decades. Accordingly bitter the brew now tastes.

That is while wise men in the middle of the last century already advised to put the kettle off the fire and the leafs out of the water. But everybody knew better, or so they said at least.

Enjoy your brew. They say good medicine must taste this bitter. And the real heavy chems have not even been rolled out yet.

[Oberon]

You're in this teapot with us, unless you've managed to immigrate to Mars. :O:

[Platapus]

ll I know is that I am getting my end of year investment reports and every single one of my accounts has grown. Not as much as I want, of course.

But I can remember a time, not that long ago, when having an investment hold its value made me the big winner in my household.

[Skybird]

You're in this teapot with us, unless you've managed to immigrate to Mars. :O:
Since some years already much less so than you can know.

[Jimbuna]

Property is possibly the safest investment area atm.

[Aktungbby]

But I can remember a time, not that long ago, when having an investment hold its value made me the big winner in my household. Now there's another feel- good happy- ending story!:D

Property is possibly the safest investment area atm. ALWAYS!:up:

[Rockin Robbins]

Paper money, commodities (including gold and silver--nothing special about them at all), property, it's all a shell game. Whenever money is created it results in profits from the banks that created it plus more debt than money for the rest of us. The system demands that we who do not create the money go bankrupt periodically to cancel the debt out of the system to make it work a little while longer.

I sent this to Steed last week and I think it's still the best way to say it:
The more I learn, the more I learn that there are no differences between the economic systems of the US, UK, Germany or even China. They all work the same way, with the bankers creating all the money in circulation, taking a cut off the top right when the money is fresh and at maximum value, building wealth, based on OUR debt, which is always a multiple of the wealth created. Then they insulate themselves from responsibility for that debt, leaving us to crash and burn periodically to justify the system for a short while longer.Think about it. Debt is the basis of every piece of currency in all our systems. And the debt must always exceed the value of every dollar in circulation.

[Skybird]

Wer nicht hören will, muß fühlen. - German proverb.

[Oberon]

出る釘は打たれる - Japanese proverb.

[Rockin Robbins]

Wer nicht hören will, muß fühlen. - German proverb.
No Skybird, in this case the rules, procedures, methods--however you wish to translate that, are themselves flawed. Following the rules gets you the bad consequences.

[Rockin Robbins]

出る釘は打たれる - Japanese proverb.
That's something like "the nail that sticks out is the one hammered down."

In this case the opposite is true. It is the ones that conform that are punished. The high nails of the banks who create the money are left alone.

Here's a flawed, but less flawed than any I've seen so far, video that explains where currency comes from (https://youtu.be/iFDe5kUUyT0), who creates it and why we have such crippling debt. It is about the United States, but the same process is at work everywhere regardless of what kind of government is running the show. This video on first glance looks like it's from a crackpot. Stay with it and you'll find that this is a carefully considered, sober and reasonbly framed picture of the overall world economy.

[Oberon]

That's something like "the nail that sticks out is the one hammered down."

In this case the opposite is true. It is the ones that conform that are punished. The high nails of the banks who create the money are left alone.

In which case

出る杭は打たれるが、出すぎた杭は打たれない

[Skybird]

No Skybird, in this case the rules, procedures, methods--however you wish to translate that, are themselves flawed. Following the rules gets you the bad consequences.
What have you translated there then...???

If you do not listen (to good advise), you must bear the consequences. And that is what the ordinary people supporting their elites and legitimizing them while all the time these elites lead them deeper into the mess, will have to endure.

If you do not learn the lesson and repeat the same mistake of trusting and legitimising the same rotten breed of characters time and again, you will see what this earns you in the end. It won't be pleasant, I assure you.

You also have to face the consequences to believe the mainstream thinking based on wrong assumptions, distorted conclusion and false claims. Economic science today are no science, but esotericism, nothign else but this. Pseudo-regiuous and artifically blown-up carricatures of mathetmtical graphs and formulas, to give a blending shine to where there is no substance. Keynesianism declares the oil it spills into the fire to be the cure to extinguish it. Still people stick to it, greed makes them believing that they will belong to the last lucky ones being able to make a fortune before the party crashes, and that they could still get away. Noble price-winning economists claim they can form value out of nothing :haha: - the alchemists at least needed a handful of dirt or lead to turn that into gold. Today'S alchemists are much more advanced, they do not even need dirt or lead. :haha:Never before has the discipline of economics been that lousy and bad and incompetent, than today. But politics cooperate with these superclever imposters and highpriests of illusions and flawed logic, because they promises of wealth from nothing allows them to "finance" the illusions some time longer by which they hope to bribe the voters to get their legitimation once again. Keynes was one of the biggest illusionsits of all time - his trick still convinces the masses. :yeah: As a proverb says: the people want to get lied to and betrayed, so let them be betrayed.

"Schulden sind vorgezogener Konsum, der in der Zukunft ausfällt." A single sentence from the middle of last century, but it holds everything you need to know to understand how deep in the mess we are: "Debts are anticipated consumerism that will no longer be available in the future." All is in that single sentence, everything. The careless and easy-minded may laugh - the knowing understand. You cannot spend yourself out of debts. You cannot violate the laws of the market without getting punished. You cannot eat the cake and keep it at the same time - and do that before you even have baked it.

The problems have been forseen by some wise minds, already a century ago. Their inevitableness has been explained beyond a shadow of a doubt. Their need has been proven in reason and logic. They declared that any party must be paid for. People do not like to hear that, they want "The show must go on, endlessly". They want free rides, and their claims being recongised as their rights. They wanted to get fed lies for they wanted to dream their illusions longer. And so: Wer nicht hören will, muß fühlen. Who did not listen and learned the lesson, must suffer the consequences.

That may not become pretty. But it is just. Fair. Justice does not mean a happy end, or mercy. Justice means that you get what you deserve. My empathy is zero, my compassion non-existent. I feel no charity over this. What I feel is anger and rage over the stupidity of the mob, for it effects me as well, I have to pay for the mistakes of the many, and even must suffer to be told that this is my "solidaric duty". I gte de facto declared a possession of others, a subject of the masses, a slave of the system, an unfree man. Thank you very much for that, mob. I will return you these favours on equal terms, if I get a chance for that.

When I could have learned to know things better, and educated myself over it, others could as well. But even when offered the opportunity, most people just laugh, and continue with business as usual. And so - the consequences of their ignorance will find them. And us all. Thank you for that.

Said the Captain of the Titanic: "No, we do not avoid that iceberg ahead, we just drive right through it, proving that way that it does not exist." Okay then, enjoy the show.

Do not try to challenge reality, never. Reality is stronger, always. Messing with it equals declaring that there could be multiple truths, whichh is the declaration of bancruptcy of intelligent reasoning. There never can be several truths at the same time, always just one. Do not mess with reality, therefore - it chews on you and your precious illusions and relativism and brilliant ideas, and spits you out, and leaves you behind and does not care for you for even a single moment.

[Oberon]

What have you translated there then...???

If you do not listen (to good advise), you must bear the consequences.

Huh, I got it translated as:

Those who refuse to follow rules shall feel the consequences

[mapuc]

Huh, I got it translated as:

I got the same, but it is not exactly correct. Never trust google translate.

When I read it my brain translated it into-those who will not hear, must feel

Markus

[Skybird]

Translations like this would fit:

He who does not learn the lecture, must face the consequences.

He who does not listen, must f.t.c.

He who does not believe it, must live through it.

Ignore the warning/the lesson - bear the consequences.

[Jimbuna]

Amen

[Mr Quatro]

we need a good leader for sure :up:

http://www.freep.com/story/money/business/2016/04/21/sears-close-78-more-kmart-and-sears-stores/83357662/


Sears Holdings announced Thursday that it will close 68 Kmart and 10 Sears stores this summer in its latest move to cut losses.

Jan 22, 2016
Walmart announced last week that it plans to close 269 stores this year, including 154 stores in the U.S. The closings include Walmart Express stores, Neighborhood Markets and Supercenters.

[Onkel Neal]

In Feb I invested heavily in energy: BP, Kinder Morgan, Exxon. Price of oil is low due to oversupply, but that won't last forever....

http://moneyfreeonline.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Free-money.jpg

[Reece]

we need a good leader for sure :up:

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRumg8PaF5H2ayoLgMm3qCSc6Na2wyNn PnIsoXf9_mimGNModXx
Did someone call out "Donald"

[Onkel Neal]

I'm hoping for a few more corrections. I just sold my Pearland house, would love a buying bargain in the next three months.

It's rare the bloody things come down, isn't it? Good if you're selling but trying to get back into the market at a decent level for the money... :dead:
Prices in the UK are getting a bit ridiculous now, pricing a lot of people out of the market, one would hope that this would bring them down but what happens

In reviewing this thread, I see I didn't explain, I was Looking for a buying bargain in the market, not real estate. I got my buying bargain with the q1 correction.

[Onkel Neal]

Top 10 Most Expensive Stocks In The World: From Chipotle To Berkshire Hathaway

I'm reading a bio of Buffett, and I'm in the late eighties and BRK is at an astounding (for that time) $2700 a share. :D

Fast fwd to today..... (https://financesonline.com/top-10-most-expensive-stocks-in-the-world-from-chipotle-to-berkshire-hathaway/) :o

PS: It is up $30K since that article was written!

[Jimbuna]

In Feb I invested heavily in energy: BP, Kinder Morgan, Exxon. Price of oil is low due to oversupply, but that won't last forever....

http://moneyfreeonline.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Free-money.jpg

I don't invest in shares directly now, preferring to go down the Unit Trust route but you are quite correct IMHO, oil can only go one way now but the question is when?

Getting in now with prices so low is all one can do, then sit and wait for the inevitable rise.

[Onkel Neal]

I don't invest in shares directly now, preferring to go down the Unit Trust route but you are quite correct IMHO, oil can only go one way now but the question is when?

Getting in now with prices so low is all one can do, then sit and wait for the inevitable rise.


What is a Unit Trust?

Yes, oil is at $46 bbl, but it could go back down and stay there a few years. Then again, with the middle east, anything could happen. I trust countries like Russia and Venezuela are as interested as I am in getting the price back up.

[Aktungbby]

What is a Unit Trust?

Yes, oil is at $46 bbl, but it could go back down and stay there a few years. Then again, with the middle east, anything could happen. I trust countries like Russia and Venezuela are as interested as I am in getting the price back up. Similar to a mutual fund; http://www.investopedia.com/terms/u/unittrust.asp (http://www.investopedia.com/terms/u/unittrust.asp) ALSO: https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-a-unit-trust-fund-and-a-mutual-fund (https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-a-unit-trust-fund-and-a-mutual-fund)

[Jimbuna]

What is a Unit Trust?

Yes, oil is at $46 bbl, but it could go back down and stay there a few years. Then again, with the middle east, anything could happen. I trust countries like Russia and Venezuela are as interested as I am in getting the price back up.

http://www.which.co.uk/money/savings-and-investments/guides/different-types-of-investment/a-guide-to-unit-trusts-and-oeics/

http://www.money.co.uk/guides/what-is-a-unit-trust.htm

[Onkel Neal]

http://www.which.co.uk/money/savings-and-investments/guides/different-types-of-investment/a-guide-to-unit-trusts-and-oeics/

http://www.money.co.uk/guides/what-is-a-unit-trust.htm

Ah, a managed mutual fund.



Saudi Arabia just fired its oil minister
http://money.cnn.com/2016/05/07/investing/saudi-arabia-oil-minister/index.html

Oil makes up 87% of Saudi Arabia's revenue, and the collapse in world crude prices since 2014 has left the kingdom struggling. It has already cut subsidies and borrowed billions to try to balance its books.

Blink, you arabs.

[Onkel Neal]

http://www.memegasms.com/media/created/vhyfxm.jpg

Arabs blinked, (http://qz.com/714622/saudi-arabia-has-declared-an-end-to-its-oil-war-with-the-us/) oil going up, now at $50, and supply is outstripping the surpluses.

Two years after quietly declaring war on upstart US shale, Saudi Arabia says the need for the fighting is over. In remarks to journalists while on a US visit, Saudi Arabian energy minister Khalid Al-Falih said that the worldwide oil glut has vanished, signaling an end to Saudi Arabia’s strategy of flooding the global market with oil to try to put American drillers out of business.

The implication was that Saudi Arabia owned the victory. But a three-week-long resurgence of US oil drilling after 21 months of decline suggests that Saudi and the US fought to a draw.
Falih noted that a record volume of oil remains in storage in the US and around the world (paywall), built up during the glut, but once much of that is sold off, the kingdom can resume its traditional role managing supply and demand.

“We are out of it,” Falih told the Houston Chronicle. “The oversupply has disappeared. We just have to carry the overhang of inventory for a while until the system works it out.”

[Betonov]

Great.
Time to sell the car.

[STEED]

Japan downgraded and the Arabs are up to know good, world economic collapse on the way have you see the price of gold and silver up up up. The smart money is pulling out ready for another crash.

[STEED]

The UK referendum vote to leave will rock the stock markets for a while.

[Oberon]

Here's a chart showing 45 years of Sterling vs the Dollar rates:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClsTASjVEAErcA2.jpg:large

https://media.giphy.com/media/12YimfUI3xDZzq/giphy.gif

[Oberon]

The UK has lost $350b over the last twelve hours, the FTSE is in freefall, this is the biggest contraction of British wealth since 1921:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClsrxjxVAAAA2HU.jpg:large

EDIT: We've now dropped from fifth to sixth largest economy, the drop in the pound has allowed France to overtake us.

EDIT EDIT: The FTSE 250 has dropped 11.4%, the sharpest decline on record.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Clsw1LTXIAAwRI6.jpg

[Onkel Neal]

Japan downgraded and the Arabs are up to know good, world economic collapse on the way have you see the price of gold and silver up up up. The smart money is pulling out ready for another crash.

Crashes come and go, always invest based on the fundamentals. If the markets take a sharp downturn because of a political event, that's a major buying opportunity.:up:

[Catfish]

The pound will recover, this is only an initial reaction. However it will probably not reach its former level again anytime soon.


OT i read that the "Sterling" comes from the east european means of paying (back then before the middle ages) with silver bars weighing roughly a pound, that were brought to England by the "Osterlinge", the name the foreign traders in England had, because they were from the east. The silverbars weighing a pound from the "Osterlinge" was then abbreviated to "Pound 'Sterling".
Maybe time for a completely new currency :03:

[Catfish]

It is not only the stock market though, Brompton bicycles is a good example of the problems.
Up to now selling a bicycle in the Eu (Brompton sells 80 percent outside of England) was almost the same as if it was sold in England. But the company will now have to make new deals with every country it wants to sell its products in, insure its products seperately, set up new judicial texts for each country's law systems, adapt its guarantees, pay for internationally valid patents and now pay value added tax to all EU countries.
It will go on, but more complicated.

http://www.ibtimes.com/brexit-brompton-bikes-how-british-eu-exit-would-affect-company-behind-iconic-folding-2385036

77 percent of the UK car industry wanted to remain in the EU, for obvious reasons..

[Jimbuna]

I don't invest in shares directly now, preferring to go down the Unit Trust route but you are quite correct IMHO, oil can only go one way now but the question is when?

Getting in now with prices so low is all one can do, then sit and wait for the inevitable rise.

:know: :smug:

[Oberon]

:haha: The Financial Times has just given up now:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Clsv12PWAAEHYfF.jpg:large

[Jimbuna]

One can't honestly say this wasn't already predicted.

[Skybird]

Don't chase charts and diagrams.

They are astrology. They pretend to show causality, where there is none.

[Jimbuna]

Don't chase charts and diagrams.

They are astrology. They pretend to show causality, where there is none.

Precisely, there are many financial houses as well as individuals who will do well out of all this.

[Oberon]

The question is if the British people are one of those houses....

[Catfish]

This is a slap in the face of common sense, and against what serious politicians have fought and negotiated for, for fifty and more years.
With the radical right now raising their heads all over Europe (the land), i guess the next one to leave will be Sweden, France (Marie LePen), The Netherlands (Geert Wilders) http://globalnews.ca/news/2783859/first-brexit-then-nexit-netherlands-geer-wilders-calls-for-referendum
followed by Poland (Law and justice party), Hungary and Romania, and then some more.
One of the greatest achievements after WW2 is toppling, with its nation's right wings parties gaining acceptance, influence, and control. I guess there will be a war, if this goes on. There will surely be a lot of new war profiteers, financially and politically.
I'm out of here.

[Oberon]

I guess there will be a war, if this goes on. There will surely be a lot of new war profiteers, financially and politically.
I'm out of here.

Honestly, I wouldn't worry about that too much, if it's going to happen it probably won't happen in our generation, but the next generation or two is probably going to see more of the worst side of European politics than we are, and we're already seeing some pretty terrible parts of it.
I don't see a war in western Europe in my lifetime anyway...Eastern Europe...that's less clear.

Meanwhile Daily Mail readers react:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CluMdLoXEAAVKCl.jpg:large

[Mr Quatro]

Precisely, there are many financial houses as well as individuals who will do well out of all this.

They (if you know who they are then you are one of them) say that this separation from the EU will take years to complete.

Mean while the advice every rich parent gives to his or her children,

"Buy low and sell high" :yep:

[Skybird]

This is a slap in the face of common sense, and against what serious politicians have fought and negotiated for, for fifty and more years.
With the radical right now raising their heads all over Europe (the land), i guess the next one to leave will be Sweden, France (Marie LePen), The Netherlands (Geert Wilders) http://globalnews.ca/news/2783859/first-brexit-then-nexit-netherlands-geer-wilders-calls-for-referendum
followed by Poland (Law and justice party), Hungary and Romania, and then some more.
One of the greatest achievements after WW2 is toppling, with its nation's right wings parties gaining acceptance, influence, and control. I guess there will be a war, if this goes on. There will surely be a lot of new war profiteers, financially and politically.
I'm out of here.

Second posting of this LINK. (http://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/article156536868/Ploetzlich-ist-die-EU-nur-noch-die-Haelfte-wert.html) Just for you.

[Catfish]

Second posting of this LINK. (http://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/article156536868/Ploetzlich-ist-die-EU-nur-noch-die-Haelfte-wert.html) Just for you.

Already read it. This is the last part:
"Wenn man jahrelang von Politikern erzählt bekommt, die Welt sei eigentlich rosarot, aber immer nur Grau erblickt, wenn man die Haustür öffnet, wählt man halt irgendwann diejenigen, die behaupten, alles sei schwarz."

Volltreffer indeed.
If you AND Trump congratulate, it is maybe indeed time to panic :O:

Nah i don't really think it's the end of the world, maybe England will come out top after a while, who knows. Maybe the Eu has felt the kick in the back and changes, but: Whenever has this worked, be it UK politicians or EU ones?

Just alone thinking of the future of the ERASMUS and science programs for EU students makes me cringe. But we will see :yep:

[Skybird]

Just for the record, Trump and me have NOTHING in common. Nothing.

But I refuse to label Clinton as the better alternative, or the lesser of two evils. She isn't. The Amis can chose between Anthrax and Ebola this time. Enjoy the freedom to chose. :O:

[Oberon]

Must resist urge to Allahwin...

[Onkel Neal]

Precisely, there are many financial houses as well as individuals who will do well out of all this.

Haha, it will have to wait till tomorrow...the DOW closed 600 down :haha:

[Schroeder]

Precisely, there are many financial houses as well as individuals who will do well out of all this.
Indeed. The Bankers at Frankfurt are already rubbing their hands in greedy joy because they predict that Frankfurt will become the new financial center of the EU, creating about 10,000 new jobs in the bank industry....That in turn means they think that London will become rather unimportant...:yeah:

[Oberon]

Indeed. The Bankers at Frankfurt are already rubbing their hands in greedy joy because they predict that Frankfurt will become the new financial center of the EU, creating about 10,000 new jobs in the bank industry....That in turn means they think that London will become rather unimportant...:yeah:

Yup, boy are we going to be screwed, and guess who will pay for it.

(Hint: It's not the wealthy elite)

[Schroeder]

Yup, boy are we going to be screwed, and guess who will pay for it.

(Hint: It's not the wealthy elite)
(Hint: It won't be Germany this time either...);)
But to be fair it is my understanding that it will be paid for by the people who mostly voted out.

[Skybird]

Indeed. The Bankers at Frankfurt are already rubbing their hands in greedy joy because they predict that Frankfurt will become the new financial center of the EU, creating about 10,000 new jobs in the bank industry....That in turn means they think that London will become rather unimportant...:yeah:Not so fast. There also is Dublin and Paris. And the fate of London imo is anything but sealed.

It is a great opportunity for Britain, to shift its financial income sources away from the stockmarket gambles, to real economy. The latter is were the real, material wealth is generated. Thats the difference between real serious investing, and just gambling. Investing means a decades-running strategy. Gambling means grab as much as you can as soon as you can and runrunrun.

Drunken of paper money paradigm as everybody seems to be nowadays, I am however not too optimistic that this will happen. And the political caste in britain still is well and alive, having an interest to prevent a limitation of their ways to spend, and then spend some more, and more, and always more.

[Betonov]

London now has an opportunity to become a gateway trade center non-EU to EU.
Londons ties to the EU won't go away because of one political shift and now they have unrestricted access to the outside world*
Similar how Slovenia is a gateway for the Russians into EU, since we're the only not hostile (openly or otherwise) EU nation. We benefited (and me personaly) from Russian investors simply because all other nations hate them and Serbia is not yet in EU.

[Jimbuna]

Haha, it will have to wait till tomorrow...the DOW closed 600 down :haha:

Just give it a week or two Onkel, the £ was at an almost all time low to the $ (1.32) early on so anyone buying at that rate can currently cash in at around 1.37, quite a tidy sum for those financial institutions looking for a quick profit and the rise will continue a bit further it is being predicted.

At one point bank shares were down 30% so imagine the gain to be made for those who bought at that rate and this is before Mr Carney (B o E) actually starts to do something for his high salary, for a change.

The 'experts' all predicted the large drops but fell short of stating their intentions to purchase during the lows and reap the benefits when the conditions levelled off, which they most certainly will, if not to the original highs but not too far off.

Money not only looks after money but it also makes more of it.

[Catfish]

Maybe the bankers move from London to Frankfurt, but i doubt it.
I see western french ports will gain on importance, since imports to Europe will not use UK territory for landing EU-destined goods anymore.

[Onkel Neal]

Here we go!

Tomorrow, will the market keep dropping like a turd in a well... or will investors jump in and grab the deals?

[Oberon]

Here we go!

Tomorrow, will the market keep dropping like a turd in a well... or will investors jump in and grab the deals?

Nikkei opens any minute now...let's see where it goes...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36636853

ddddoooooowwwwwnnnnn

Still, nice to see our Chancellor is going to make a speech, probably along the lines of:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BsnAXzrIAAAMdU3.jpg

[Mr Quatro]

The stock market was down 500 points way back in late January 2016 and then it bounced back as oil prices came down. It use to take a year or more to bounce back now it is up and down with the usual profit takers making money off of someone else's mistakes.

This is what Wall Street does ... make money. It's not gambling like Vegas with fixed odds on every game (except craps has a little slop). It's an investment and they know how to sell and wait for a lower price to buy and how to pump in more money when the market is ready to go back up.

I think it will make a come back :yep:

The Stock Market Is Not The Economy article January 22, 2016
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-stock-market-is-not-the-economy/

“It’s not like the market resets at the beginning of each year.” Set aside the psychological importance of the New Year and what we’re really talking about is a market that lost 9 percent in 12 trading days (as of the end of Wednesday). That’s hardly unprecedented. We had equally bad 12-day stretches in 1950, 1955, 1957, 1962, 1966, 1970, 1973, 1974, 1978, 1979, 1981, 1987, 1997, 1998, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2008, 2009, 2011 and 2015. That list includes some brutal recessions and memorable crashes, but also several incidents that proved little more than blips. Remember the great crash of September 1998? Don’t be too hard on yourself if you don’t: After plunging 11 percent in 12 days, the S&P 500 rebounded to end the year up nearly 27 percent. (For what it’s worth, the drop was attributed to a financial crisis in Russia.)

[Catfish]

^ Right, i think



"It’s true that the pound has fallen by a lot compared with normal daily fluctuations. But for those of us who cut our teeth on emerging-market crises, the fall isn’t that big – in fact, it’s not that big compared with British historical episodes. The pound fell by a third during the 70s crisis; it fell by a quarter during Britain’s exit from the Exchange Rate Mechanism in 1992; it’s down about 8 percent as I write this. ....


Furthermore, Britain is a nation that borrows in its own currency, not subject to a classic balance-sheet crisis due to currency devaluation – that is, it’s not like Argentina, where the fall in the peso wreaked havoc with firms and consumers who had borrowed in dollars. If you were worried that fears about Brexit would cause capital flight and drive up interest rates, well, no sign of that – if anything the opposite.«

from: http://www.vox.com/2016/6/24/12024728/brexit-economy-economists-recession

[Jimbuna]

^As per the above.

FTSE (at time of posting) is 6,044.22 Down 94.47(1.54%).

No big deal and a lot less than in previous periods during the past twelve months.

[Oberon]

So far so good then. :yep:

EDIT: Well...with the exception of:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cl-eTqCWkAEkUtA.jpg

[Jimbuna]

Could fast be approaching the time for the financial 'wizards' to start buying, especially when BoE intervention is expected.

[Oberon]

Speaking of those wizards, a former analyst from the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cl9cs11WEAUH4ed.jpg:large

[Jimbuna]

I wonder if they'll be so 'sure' in a couple of weeks?

[Oberon]

I wonder if they'll be so 'sure' in a couple of weeks?

I hope not, but given the political gridlock and that the big two parties seem to be self-immolating, I can't see much changing in the short term. Maybe Gideon will get his finger out and start shoring things up a bit, but honestly politically it's in his favour to let things run and let the UK take a nose-dive in an 'I told you so' kind of way, and it'll discredit Bojo too who seems to have taken a big jump into a pit of dirt and is trying to figure out how to dig himself out.

[Jimbuna]

Gideon is probably reliant on Boris and Gove for his future prospects atm.

[Catfish]

So far so good then. :yep:

EDIT: Well...with the exception of:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cl-eTqCWkAEkUtA.jpg

Nothing to see, in several posts of the past. Also some missing in the Brexit thread. Is it a glitch, deleting, or (ahem) censorship? :hmmm:

[Jimbuna]

Nothing to see, in several posts of the past. Also some missing in the Brexit thread. Is it a glitch, deleting, or (ahem) censorship? :hmmm:

Currently talking to Neal on Skype and having checked the moderator log we can find nothing untoward.

Could you point us in the right direction?

[Catfish]

Hey sorry, i should not be so fast with accusations :oops:
Have seen this several times, some examples but did not find all:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2414792&postcount=153

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2414839&postcount=155

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2414837&postcount=936


I do not see any pictures or links, in the posts (?)

[Jimbuna]

The first link was a post edited by the poster, the second link is to an individual post and the third link is to a post in which the attached image hasn't stuck, opening in another tab takes you to an error page of the Alternate History site.

None of the above are down to moderator actions and to quote Neal just now "Nothing to do with us". :03:

[Onkel Neal]

hi Catfish,

I don't see anything wrong, I can see the images in Oberon's posts, except the one that links to this site http://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/attachments/corbyn-jpg.278802/

Certainly no censorship, mate. That's a Last Resort in Subsim's forums and we take that very seriously.

[Catfish]

Hello Neal and Jim,
so the error seems on my side, cannot see the links or anything at all. Firefox here .. :hmmm:
Ok will check this, and report.

Thank you for your assistance, and greetings,
Catfish :salute:

[Oberon]

Whoops, my bad...that's what I get for hotlinking from alternate history without thinking... :oops:

The one that Neal couldn't see, that's this:

http://i.imgur.com/D3pa2Rp.jpg

[Oberon]

The FTSE 100 has returned to pre-Brexit levels, so that's good...still, we had quite the setback and a lot of money was lost, but for now things are starting to level out...starting...
Let's try and keep it that way, ok Tories?

[Onkel Neal]

I'm ahead of where I was on Weds of last week, thanks Brexit. Do it again, please.

[Reece]

http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/2x05/theapple_122.jpg

[Catfish]

The pound should be soon where it was before.
What has been promised after a Brexit will be slightly corrected, and the election pledges will follow.
Nothing happened, carry on :03:

[Reece]

https://i.imgflip.com/xohx2.jpg

[STEED]

https://i.imgflip.com/xohx2.jpg

Casino betting, nice one hedge fund managers betting on a remain vote and they crashed the stock exchange further than it would have gone last Friday. Time this sector cleaned out the rubbish. As for today looks like its all settling down for now.

[Oberon]

I'm ahead of where I was on Weds of last week, thanks Brexit. Do it again, please.

Given what's going on with the two main parties at the moment that's not out of the question. :har:

[Onkel Neal]

Don't I know it :wah:

[Jimbuna]

Just give it a week or two Onkel, the £ was at an almost all time low to the $ (1.32) early on so anyone buying at that rate can currently cash in at around 1.37, quite a tidy sum for those financial institutions looking for a quick profit and the rise will continue a bit further it is being predicted.

At one point bank shares were down 30% so imagine the gain to be made for those who bought at that rate and this is before Mr Carney (B o E) actually starts to do something for his high salary, for a change.

The 'experts' all predicted the large drops but fell short of stating their intentions to purchase during the lows and reap the benefits when the conditions levelled off, which they most certainly will, if not to the original highs but not too far off.

Money not only looks after money but it also makes more of it.

Told you so :smug:

[Oberon]

Well, to be fair, the £ hasn't exactly made it back to pre-Brexit levels, it was 1.50 $ to £ before the results on Thursday night, and hasn't breached 1.37 since then. The FTSE100 is better now though, so that's something.

[Kapitan]

Well, to be fair, the £ hasn't exactly made it back to pre-Brexit levels, it was 1.50 $ to £ before the results on Thursday night, and hasn't breached 1.37 since then. The FTSE100 is better now though, so that's something.

To be honest i know it will affect me in the exchange when i go back and forth to the states but if we do become fully detached that sort of exchange rate is good for exports so in the long run a lower exchange could be rather handy.

pain in the ass if you want to go anywhere though

[Schroeder]

if we do become fully detached that sort of exchange rate is good for exports so in the long run a lower exchange could be rather handy.

It's good for a country like Germany that exports more than it imports. The UK however doesn't actually export much. Even small countries like the Netherlands or Canada (which is only small in population of course) have a comparable volume of exports.
In 2015 there have been imports into the UK with a value of ~ 625,8 billion USD and only ~460,45 billion USD worth of exports. So as a net importer the UK will actually suffer from a weak(er) currency.

[Catfish]

...pain in the ass if you want to go anywhere though

Yep, but since they prefer their splendid isolation, it will not affect them :O:

Seriously, the real outcome will only be visible in two years. The "catastrophy" some talked about has not happened, or been postponed.

[wolfman Ben]

Chinas growth slowing. US stock market taking a header. DOW close to closing for seven minutes to regroup.


http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx221/B_Oceander/GIF_Animations/Chicken_no_head.gif (http://s758.photobucket.com/user/B_Oceander/media/GIF_Animations/Chicken_no_head.gif.html) uh oh not good also I'm an interesting guy who likes sub sims

[Jimbuna]

pain in the ass if you want to go anywhere though

I'll know that better when travelling abroad next summer.

[Mr Quatro]

It's all over here folks ... nothing left to see :yep:

Everyone spend their money well :up:

http://www.businessinsider.com/us-market-update-august-11-2016-2016-8


The Dow Jones Industrial Average ticked to a historic high just ahead of the noon hour on Thursday. The 128 point gain, or 0.7%, has run the DJIA above the 18,600 level for the first time on record. Additionally, both the S&P 500 (+0.5%) and the Nasdaq (+0.5%) hold onto solid gains.

[Jimbuna]

The FTSE is in a similar position. Now is the time to sell perhaps.

[Mr Quatro]

http://www.freep.com/story/money/business/2016/08/15/ruby-tuesday-plans-close-95-locations-september/88759112/

Ruby Tuesday plans to close 95 of its 724 restaurants by September as it tries to cut costs and stem losses.

The company says it has been losing money because of increased competition and a decline in consumer spending on casual dining.

The Maryville, Tenn.-based chain said last week that it lost $27.6 million, or 46 cents per share, during its fourth quarter

[em2nought]

http://www.freep.com/story/money/business/2016/08/15/ruby-tuesday-plans-close-95-locations-september/88759112/

Can't have anything to do with the three hours it took to finish our meal from the time we sat down til the time we left the table? :hmmm:

[Mr Quatro]

Can't have anything to do with the three hours it took to finish our meal from the time we sat down til the time we left the table? :hmmm:

It has been 14 years since I ate at a Ruby Tuesdays, but the meal was very good and the friends I ate with made it better.

Sorry you had a bad experience.

[Onkel Neal]

In Feb I invested heavily in energy: BP, Kinder Morgan, Exxon. Price of oil is low due to oversupply, but that won't last forever....





KM up 47% this year, this makes me happy :yep:

http://www.fool.com/investing/2016/08/18/kinder-morgan-stock-upgraded-3-things-you-need-to.aspx

Olin and TSM also going strong. BP, so-so. Exxon was killing it at $95 before their P&L showed the worst quarter in 17 years. It will get better when Oil tightens.

[Mr Quatro]

Kmart is closing 64 stores across 28 states: http://www.businessinsider.com/kmart-is-closing-64-stores-full-list-2016-9

Sears Holdings, which owns Sears and Kmart, informed Kmart employees of the closures on Friday, according to local news reports and employees who spoke to Business Insider.

Moody's analysts warned last week that Kmart doesn't have enough cash or access to cash to stay in business. Kmart has about 870 stores today, down from about 1,300 in 2012.

[Mr Quatro]

KM up 47% this year, this makes me happy :yep:

http://www.fool.com/investing/2016/08/18/kinder-morgan-stock-upgraded-3-things-you-need-to.aspx

Olin and TSM also going strong. BP, so-so. Exxon was killing it at $95 before their P&L showed the worst quarter in 17 years. It will get better when Oil tightens.

Time to move Neal ... http://www.businessinsider.com/houstons-boom-years-are-over-bmi-research-says-2016-10

Houston's boom is over

Houston was the largest contributor to economic growth in the US from 2010 to 2015, ahead of cities like New York, Dallas, and San Francisco. That was possible because oil prices were near $100 a barrel, the shale-oil revolution was gaining steam, and skilled workers from other states flocked there.

But when the tables turned in 2014, Houston came in direct contact with the most severe oil crash in a half century. The worst of the oil downturn appears to be over, but the same pace of expansion that Houston saw in recent years is unlikely to repeat itself.

[mako88sb]

Time to move Neal ... http://www.businessinsider.com/houstons-boom-years-are-over-bmi-research-says-2016-10

Houston's boom is over

The province of Alberta went through the same thing back in the early 80's with the same dire predictions for the future. I was a carpenter apprentice back then and I remember one of our teachers pointing at the downtown skyline with 25% office vacancy here in Calgary and predicting no new construction for office buildings for at least a decade. As bad as things were at the time, it still eventually turned around and 5 years later, some new buildings were started downtown. Since then, we've had at least 2 full fledged oil boom cycles with many smaller ones along with the inevitable downturns. This downturn we are currently going through is definitely one of the worst but it seems after the turnaround happened in the past slowdowns, we were much busier than the previous up-cycle. Of course, this time could be different and maybe we are heading into uncharted territory, but I'm pretty skeptical about that.

[Oberon]

Time to move Neal ...

He's way ahead of you, now sunbathing on the glorious beaches of Sweden.

http://cdn1.pri.org/sites/default/files/styles/original_image/public/Too%20much_0.jpg?itok=CrVmZSoB

[Catfish]

^ :haha:

But.. Simrishamn! :) :up:

[Mr Quatro]

Good-bye Sears ... this is probably just the first step: https://www.yahoo.com/finance/video/sears-selling-craftsman-brand-stanley-142557005.html


Jan.05 -- Sears Holding Corp. will raise $900 million by selling off its Craftsman tool brand to Stanley Black & Decker in the third funding move for the company in the last two weeks.

[Mr Quatro]

Not so sure Warren Buffett is doing the right thing here ... He has been investing in Walmart since 2005 and now he is selling.

I don't have $900 million dollars like he does, but something seems odd about this.

Walmart just got me back with the two day shipping guarantee ... all I wanted was a couple of electrical items for under $10.00 so I paid the $5.95 shipping fee and got them in two days anyway. Cheaper than going all the way over the mountains to the store for sure.

Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway has sold off $900 million of Walmart stock, choosing to invest billions in airlines instead.

The sale, which leaves Buffett with nearly no shares in Walmart, comes as the US's largest traditional retailer has been rushing to catch up to Amazon and other online competitors.

Amazon's market value is now $356 billion, compared with Walmart's $298 billion. Last year, Buffett acknowledged that traditional brick-and-mortar retailers were struggling in the face of competition from the e-commerce giant.

http://www.businessinsider.com/warren-buffett-drops-walmart-stock-2017-2

[Onkel Neal]

Let's see, market is going strong, and with the Tax Reform act, could be growing stronger.

http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/kaavio.Webhost/charts/big.chart?nosettings=1&symb=DJIA&uf=0&type=2&size=2&sid=1643&style=320&freq=1&entitlementtoken=0c33378313484ba9b46b8e24ded87dd6&time=8&rand=1137383532&compidx=&ma=0&maval=9&lf=1&lf2=0&lf3=0&height=335&width=579&mocktick=1
Apple paying $38bn in tax to US treasury ‘a big, big moment’
For years US companies have played the tax game, but the rule are now changing (https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/cliff-taylor-apple-paying-38bn-in-tax-to-us-treasury-a-big-big-moment-1.3361365)

[Skybird]

Problem there is that needed structural reforms do not get carried out, Trump is not working on profound structures, but on symptoms. The effects therefore I expect to last not for too long. Reagan did the same, and had medium range benefits. Ater them ending, the state debts went way up. Also, the dollar is too weak compared to what the stock market values claim to indicate, which means that Amerina money by Apple may return to the US, but porivate investors moneya is being exported form the Us onto other stockmarkets, currently Europe, however strange that seerms to be. This is a vicious circle,. since it will klure more and more mnoney out of the Americna market, which then will shrink demand in the US.

I predict Trumponomics will party for two years, not longer.

And this, more fundamental cnsideration. Does anyone seriously belioeve that the real world material value of proucing industries and economies can rais ein in total values within one year by 20, 30, 40%...? Does anyone seriously believe a company that produces nothing, like facebook, seriously is worth dozens of billions of bucks...? Finally, the biog four, Micosoft, Google, Apple, buy off competitors, and do so just to remove them from the competition. We are talking about widenngn de facto monopolies and dependencies. Does anyone seriously believe there will be no mid- to long-term punishment from doing so?

One should never assess the state of an economy by the stockmarket graoh alone. ;) Many famous and good stock traders do not look at such graphs even once, not for a single company, not for a whole economy system. Gamblers do that, hoping to get away with their bets. And some will. Myself, I place bets only with money I have in excess, I do not bet with money that I depend on.

Nothing new under the sun - expect what already has been fogotten. Although it is just one and a half decade ago...

[Catfish]

Regarding Apple now paying taxes, nothing to do with "Trumponomics":
(from Neal's link):



"The fuse was lit when Apple executives led by chief executive Tim Cook (https://www.irishtimes.com/topics/topics-7.1213540?article=true&tag_person=Tim+Cook) were summoned before a US senate committee in 2013 to be questioned on the structures used in relation to profits earned overseas. At the heart of this was a company which didn’t pay its taxes anywhere.


Apple, the grand masters of tax planning, had invented a new trick – you might call it tax residency in the cloud. The fact that the company involved was incorporated in Ireland put us right bang in the middle of the story, of course

And then came the 2016 European Commission (https://www.irishtimes.com/topics/topics-7.1213540?article=true&tag_organisation=European+Commission) decision that Ireland had given Apple illegal State aid in the way it dealt with the company’s tax affairs here. Apple owed Ireland €13 billion plus interest and penalties as a result, the commission concluded.

Like many other big companies, Apple had pushed the tax game too far."

[Mr Quatro]

Apple has a plan ... :hmmm:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-tax/apple-plans-new-u-s-campus-to-pay-38-billion-in-foreign-cash-taxes-idUSKBN1F62FJ

Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38 billion in foreign cash taxes

(Reuters) - Apple Inc (AAPL.O) will open a new campus as part of a five-year, $30 billion U.S. investment plan and will make about $38 billion in one-time tax payments on its overseas cash, one of the largest corporate spending plans announced since the passage of a tax cut signed by U.S. President Donald Trump.

[Armistead]

Problem there is that needed structural reforms do not get carried out, Trump is not working on profound structures, but on symptoms. The effects therefore I expect to last not for too long. Reagan did the same, and had medium range benefits. Ater them ending, the state debts went way up. Also, the dollar is too weak compared to what the stock market values claim to indicate, which means that Amerina money by Apple may return to the US, but porivate investors moneya is being exported form the Us onto other stockmarkets, currently Europe, however strange that seerms to be. This is a vicious circle,. since it will klure more and more mnoney out of the Americna market, which then will shrink demand in the US.

I predict Trumponomics will party for two years, not longer.

And this, more fundamental cnsideration. Does anyone seriously belioeve that the real world material value of proucing industries and economies can rais ein in total values within one year by 20, 30, 40%...? Does anyone seriously believe a company that produces nothing, like facebook, seriously is worth dozens of billions of bucks...? Finally, the biog four, Micosoft, Google, Apple, buy off competitors, and do so just to remove them from the competition. We are talking about widenngn de facto monopolies and dependencies. Does anyone seriously believe there will be no mid- to long-term punishment from doing so?

One should never assess the state of an economy by the stockmarket graoh alone. ;) Many famous and good stock traders do not look at such graphs even once, not for a single company, not for a whole economy system. Gamblers do that, hoping to get away with their bets. And some will. Myself, I place bets only with money I have in excess, I do not bet with money that I depend on.

Nothing new under the sun - expect what already has been fogotten. Although it is just one and a half decade ago...

I think with congress about the best you can get is to work on symptoms, but I fear while we see some big short term gains, unless congress and Trump start dealing with the realistic cures, obvious all this isn't going to hold much longer than one term. Course, treating symptoms is usually the first step, see if actual cure fixes come later down the pike, but I don't think so, not with our congress. I think for those of us that invest in the stock market, the higher it goes, the more I think when should I sell or reinvest safer places..

[Jimbuna]

I think for those of us that invest in the stock market, the higher it goes, the more I think when should I sell or reinvest safer places..

Couldn't agree more and I am now at the stage in life where I only invest in fixed rate savings bonds. The returns aren't as good but all the risk element is done away with and the smaller return is guaranteed.

[Skybird]

https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.finanzen.net%2Fnachricht%2Fakt ien%2F34-perfect-storm-34-aus-der-krise-2008-nichts-gelernt-zentralbank-experte-sieht-globales-finanzsystem-in-gefahr-5930037&edit-text=

[Rockstar]

marketwatch.com/story/how-wall-streets-fear-gauge-is-being-rigged-according-to-one-whistleblower-2018-02-13

[Mr Quatro]

I remember when gold was $500 an ounce :yep:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-markets/oil-gold-to-gain-on-syria-strikes-russian-retaliation-in-focus-idUSKBN1HM0JI

Gold has benefited in recent days as a safe-haven asset amid a U.S.-China trade dispute and the escalating conflict in Syria, which also pushed oil above $70 per barrel due to concerns about a spike in Middle Eastern tensions.

Gold, often used as a store of value in times of political and economic uncertainty, could rally towards $1,400 per ounce after two consecutive weeks of gains.

“If we do break above $1,365, that next week we would be very bullish,” said Aslam.

[Rockstar]

Hang on it may be a wild ride!:yeah:

The Crash Of 1929: "Can It Happen Again?" :o:06::hmmm:

Submitted by GnS Economics (http://gnseconomics.com/en_US/2018/04/25/the-crash-of-1929/)
In the 4th of February, we published a blog entry (http://gnseconomics.com/en_US/2018/02/04/the-ghost-of-1987/) detailing the similarities of the current stock market environment with that before the stock market crash in 1987. On February 5th, the Dow Jones Industrial Average (DJIA) experienced the worst daily point decline of its history. Since then, the stock market has recovered, but are we out of the woods?
At the aforementioned entry, we also warned that the situation in the global economy actually resembles more of the time before the Great Depression than that before of the Black Monday in 1987. Worryingly, the same holds for the US equity markets. In fact, almost all of the developments that led to the Great Crash of 1929 are already visible in the US. We may thus be heading towards the worst asset market crash in 90 years. https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-04-27/crash-1929-can-it-happen-again

[Skybird]

My alarm bells started to ring when I watched at it all and realised that I found it impossible anymore to make reasonable assumptions on when the trend, upwards in past years, would change and reverse, maybe even quickly collapse. It was then when I bailed out, for staying engaged to me was not more than indeed purely gambling from then on. Since then I have transformed a lot of my treasure into mobile, anonymous real value. I may miss out on possible stockmarket gains meanwhile as long as the rally of the past years still continues. But I cannot get hit by any major market collapse, which tend to happen quickly and faster than you can react to as a private investor.

Also, as a small nice side-effect, I do not generate personal profits of which the state syndicate can benefit by blackmailing additional protection money. More than the protection money I get robbed of anyway, I mean.

Following Austrian economic wisdom, I am prone to loose possible wins in stocks, yes. I know that, I am fully aware of that. But these wins - by staying engaged - now can only be realised by taking incalculatable (in my opinion) risks, with time probably running out. Staying engaged when chances for good and bad endings are 50:50 is not strategic thinking for me - that is gambling, and unpredictable in outcome and timing.

Private American investors are fleeing from fonds in huge numbers since three months, btw. It has been taken close note of by professional traders.

[Catfish]

We are again in a phase of crazy building projects, and this means no good. Mega-Skyscrapers Are A Sign Of Economic Collapse, no joke.
"Construction of the world’s tallest tower is usually a sign of hubris and overconfidence. And it’s often associated with bubbles."

https://www.seeker.com/mega-skyscrapers-are-a-sign-of-economic-collapse-2240336126.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyscraper_Index



:o

[Mr Quatro]

I found this to be interesting about day trading in Russia :yep:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/struggling-russians-turn-to-day-trading-to-pay-the-bills/ar-AAwoGGa

When Natalia Orlova isn’t working a $400-a-month job at a Moscow factory that makes Cold War-era space rockets, she’s glued to the trading app she uses to speculate on oil.

Lately, the 54-year-old has made a small fortune as crude jumped to 3-1/2 year highs, some of those gains linked to America’s latest sanctions on Russia. Like tens of thousands of Russians, Orlova says day trading is the key to surviving economic gloom: she just bought a new Infiniti and is saving up for an apartment for her two grandsons.

“Financial markets are the one place where you can really change your life and pull yourself out of poverty,” Orlova said at a café near her three-room 1950s apartment in a western suburb of Moscow, smiling as she points to the tablet she’s just pulled out of her floral purse. “Since yesterday evening, I’m up 1.5 million rubles ($24,000).”

[Mr Quatro]

I hate Sonic commercials with the same two (2) dudes doing their ads, but I sure approve of their food. I didn't know they were worth that much though.

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2018/09/25/Owner-of-Arbys-Buffalo-Wild-Wings-to-acquire-Sonic-in-23B-deal/7951537895313/


Inspire Brands, the company that owns Arby's, Buffalo Wild Wings and Rusty Taco, announced Tuesday it will add Sonic to its fast-food portfolio.

Inspire Brands will purchase Sonic Corp. for $43.50 per share, a transaction worth about $2.3 billion, Sonic said.

[STEED]

Hang on it may be a wild ride!:yeah:

The Crash Of 1929: "Can It Happen Again?" :o:06::hmmm:

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-04-27/crash-1929-can-it-happen-again

YES

[mapuc]

As in many other areas, I'm not an expert on world or states economy.

I know how to balance my own budget-but that's all.

I am however convinced that, all these economical crashes we have had since the big one in 1929, is aftershock after this big crash in 1929.

Well it's my own theory-Can't prove it.

Markus

[Mr Quatro]

Ford and VW might become partners :o

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/vw-plans-tesla-rival-electric-163710750.html


An electric van, the ID Buzz, is due to be built at VW's plant in Hannover, where its T6 Van is made, the source said.

To free up production capacity for electric cars in Hannover, VW's transporter vans could be produced at a Ford (F.N) plant in Turkey, the source added.

VW and Ford are in "exploratory talks" to develop self-driving and electric vehicles in an alliance meant to save them billions of dollars, Reuters reported last month.

German VW factories in Emden, Zwickau and Hanover, which all build combustion-engined cars, will switch to electric ones in under the plans being considered, the source said.

[Skybird]

As in many other areas, I'm not an expert on world or states economy.

I know how to balance my own budget-but that's all.

I am however convinced that, all these economical crashes we have had since the big one in 1929, is aftershock after this big crash in 1929.

Well it's my own theory-Can't prove it.

Markus
Global debts today - in November 2018 - have exceeded a value more than three times as big as the yearly global gross domestic product (GDP of all the world).

THREE TIMES.

It was never so high during peak crisis 2008-2009. And just years before that, in 2001-2002, it was a fraction only of the debts in 2007-2009.

The ratio between fighting nations combined GDP and combined debts, was not so disastrous durign WW1, and not during WW2. To say our situation is worse than in 1918 or 1945, in a way is correct.

These insane debt levels today also put the numbers from the American economy into relation - since much of the recent boom was financed on tick.

[Rockstar]

IMF warns storm clouds are gathering for next financial crisis

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/dec/11/imf-financial-crisis-david-lipton

The storm clouds of the next global financial crisis are gathering despite the world financial system being unprepared for the next downturn, the deputy head of the International Monetary Fund has warned. David Lipton, the first deputy managing director of the IMF, said that “crisis prevention is incomplete” more than a decade on from the last meltdown in the global banking system.

“As we have put it, ‘fix the roof while the sun shines.’ But like many of you, I see storm clouds building, and fear the work on crisis prevention is incomplete.”

“We ought to be concerned about the potency of monetary policy,” he said of the ability of the US Federal Reserve and other central banks to cut interest rates to boost the economy in the event of another downturn, while also warning that high levels of government borrowing constrained their scope for cutting taxes and raising spending.

Speaking to an audience at Bloomberg in London, Christine Lagarde’s deputy called on China to take urgent steps to open up its economy to global competition. Against a backdrop of Donald Trump engaging in a bitter trade dispute with Beijing, he said China needed to lower trade barriers, while also impose tougher rules to protect intellectual property – a key complaint of the US president.

[STEED]

There is no next no new its the same old one on going as these clueless morons can not see that.

One thing is for sure bankers will always win in the good and bad times and its the rest of us who will get hard.

[Mr Quatro]

IMF warns storm clouds are gathering for next financial crisis


I saw this warning on a scroll on GMA or was it MSNBC, but they called it a recession.

What's a recession? I take it that it's not good for rich people :o

[Skybird]

What's a recession? I take it that it's not good for rich people :o
Rrecessions show that the fairy tale castel was build on quick sand only.



Recession means the inflating of the available quantity of money has motivated to go into risky investments that people would not have undertaklen if less money only would have been available. The devaluation of money creates distortions in prices indices and the value attirbtuiuon to the money unit that render said investments before now as uncompoetrtitive and thus, unproifitable. A recession is a phase where this abnormally created distortion gets corrected - if politicians allow it, what they of course do noit allow. They make it worse by trying tio immediately battle recession with unprofitable government investments and by cretaing even more money and even more non-competitive economy quantity and -quality.



Its not just not good for rich people. Average Joe Smith gets hit as well: due to rising taxes, economy declining and unemployment.



The more the state intervenes in a bid to fight recession, the worse it gets and the longer it lasts, and the worse the follow-on consequences overnthe time to come will become. Its like trying to extinguish a fire by spilling more gasoline into it.



---



Ludwig von Mises, 1951: "This country, and with it most of the Western world, is presently going through a period of inflation and credit expansion. As the quantity of money in circulation and deposits subject to check increases, there prevails a general tendency for the prices of commodities and services to rise. Business is booming. Yet such a boom, artificially engineered by monetary and credit expansion, cannot last forever. It must come to an end sooner or later. For paper money and bank deposits are not a proper substitute for nonexisting capital goods. Economic theory has demonstrated in an irrefutable way that a prosperity created by an expansionist monetary and credit policy is illusory and must end in a slump, an economic crisis. It has happened again and again in the past, and it will happen in the future, too."


Murray Rothbard, 1983:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWgtmjVLMbM
https://mises.org/library/recession-explained



Further:

http://www.incrementum.li/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Why-We-Need-a-Recession.pdf

[STEED]

FTSE 100 suffers biggest one-year fall since 2008

London's leading share index has seen more than £240bn wiped off the value of its constituent companies over the course of 2018.https://news.sky.com/story/ftse-100-suffers-biggest-one-year-fall-since-2008-11595633


The FTSE 100 has suffered its biggest one-year fall since the financial crisis in 2008.

London's leading stock index was 12.5% lower at the end of 2018 compared with the start of the year, wiping more than £240bn off the combined value of its constituent companies.

So...after all they never loose. :03:

[Jimbuna]

Buy when the market is bearish and sell when it is bullish, it has always been that way. The successful punters act at the most opportune times.

[STEED]

The FTSE 100 is not a good guide on the UK as most of it is foreign owned. Better guide is the FTSE 250 which is in most part UK owned companies. :ping: :)

[STEED]

ITS FAT CAT FRIDAY TODAY IN THE UK

Yes today all the FAT CATS will have racked in a year's worth of wages and more and still they get fatter of money because they can get away with it.! :o


By 1pm today the UK's top company bosses will have already earned the same amount in 2019 as the average worker will be paid for the whole year.https://news.sky.com/story/fat-cat-friday-top-bosses-2019-pay-already-matches-the-average-annual-salary-11598353

[Jimbuna]

I'm not exactly thin but still pleasantly thankful for my physique.

[Rockstar]

Any of you dirt farmers watching this company? I picked up a few thousand shares of EKSO (NASDAQ) several weeks ago at 2.18. Steady growth, manageable debt, a JV with China maybe Japan soon, participating in a WISE study results expected Q2 2019. Boeing, and Ford might buy big if their evaluations go well. This could go to the moon in a few years. Still at a very decent entry point for us po'folks.

http://www.live5news.com/2019/02/26/exoskeleton-technology-is-getting-trial-run-boeing-make-workers-jobs-less-strenuous/

[Skybird]

The recent publishing of ICF's and WB's plans to have two prices for goods and services ins tores, one for digitla payment and a higher ne for cash payment, should tell everybody what is coming at us. It comoares to showing a rope to a horse before bringing in the saddle - peope should get used to even more criminal measures to allow getting plundered for the sins of our great leaders, since there is no more room for ordinary intrest lowerings. The situation now is much worse than it was 2007, and when they now show the torture tools to the public this is only beign done for preparing much worse measures by them. To ounish us, their victims of th epast ("penalty interest" implies that the person needing to pay these, committed apunishable crime: reframing, anyone?)


What I mean is: instead of grapping more quick gains it might be high time to think about how you could protect and hide your property formt he state and centrla bank plunderers once the next - and much biger!! - wave of financial desaster reaches your shores. The art lies in owning withut the state knowing it. And even then, if they really play it tough, even that will not protect you from punishing taxes once you try to sell your stuff again.



This includes stocks.



Its red alert times again. Since quite some time now, and could last for long time to come, uncertainty is high.



Consider this the next time you feel motivated to vote for anyone wanting you to vote for him. His hobby and his way of living is the bill you have to pay for, and you even will get told that it is your moral obligation to do so. And indeed, if you vote for getting plundered, you have no argument by which you could complain about it. In other words: you are beign owned by a small clique of owning masters. But go ahead, vote for them.

[Onkel Neal]

Any of you dirt farmers watching this company? I picked up a few thousand shares of EKSO (NASDAQ) several weeks ago at 2.18. Steady growth, manageable debt, a JV with China maybe Japan soon, participating in a WISE study results expected Q2 2019. Boeing, and Ford might buy big if their evaluations go well. This could go to the moon in a few years. Still at a very decent entry point for us po'folks.

http://www.live5news.com/2019/02/26/exoskeleton-technology-is-getting-trial-run-boeing-make-workers-jobs-less-strenuous/

Thanks for the heads up. Ekso's share price has nearly doubled since the beginning of the year. :up:

I'm mostly an income generating investor, still holding Exxon (https://www.streetinsider.com/dividend_history.php?q=xom) (4.4%) and Kinder Morgan (https://www.streetinsider.com/dividend_history.php?q=kmi) (4.4%). Richard Kinder has been buying large chunks of his company's stock this year, which makes me happy.

[Rockstar]

I'm a just a lowly part-time day trader, gives me something to do when its raining outside. Hoping that later down the road it doesn't turn out like the Opti-Grab.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/_HQr524Q5MZw/S4HqiUOJ9hI/AAAAAAAAADc/02BlG_6XmeE/s400/thejerk2.jpg

[STEED]

Pay by cash? Not for long, report warns

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47456698

:hmmm:

[Jimbuna]

Too many folk without internet and bank accounts to give the article any real credibility.

[Skybird]

If your debt is growing faster than your economy, then you’re not getting richer. You’re getting poorer. You would have been better off without the debt and without the growth … We’re borrowing ourselves into poverty. We’re not borrowing ourselves rich. We’re borrowing ourselves broke.”




https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-03-05/peter-schiff-were-not-borrowing-ourselves-rich-were-borrowing-ourselves-broke

[ikalugin]

There are ways to default on your debt without consequences (for default itself that is).

[mapuc]

We have to start from scratch/Zero

´Cause what we have now doesn't work

I'm not expert on this, I can only say we have to start from scratch/zero with something else.

Markus

[Skybird]

There are ways to default on your debt without consequences (for default itself that is).
That is the biggest bull on Earth. Somebody always pay. Down to the very last penny owed.


Thats the big lie of our time that you tell there. That debts can be had for nothing, that money has no price, that debts can be infinitely raised by having infinite money.

How comes that one can still believe this crap?

[ikalugin]

That is the biggest bull on Earth. Somebody always pay. Down to the very last penny owed.


Thats the big lie of our time that you tell there. That debts can be had for nothing, that money has no price, that debts can be infinitely raised by having infinite money.

How comes that one can still believe this crap?
My point is that debt is a promise to pay back the money. The idea that it will be payed to the debtor relies on the existance of an enforcement system.

And there are situations in which such promises are voided, as there is no real way to force the sole superpower to do anything. Wars and revolutions are the more obvious ones, perceived just causes generated by internal/external policy you dont like are the less obvious ones. And in the modern world it is almost trivial for the US to either freeze or burn the debts it has to other countries in this way as it both has the biggest stick, most allies and the ownership of USD based global financial system.

[Skybird]

Its not just the US intentionally inflating the debt volume, its the rest of the world, by and large, as well.



And lets face it, the power lies not with the creditor, but the debtor. All risks are with the creditor, all the vulnerability. Thats why stupid German politicians agree to throw more and more foul money after foul credits they have allowed in the poast - just to keep the illusion shining bright and not realsing that the money they have thrown out of the window for other states's debt-making will never be paid back.



It is often said that Germany made a fortune with the credit crisis, but that is not true, since Germany did not get a real material cash backflow from it worth to mention, but just accumulated and still acuumaltes claims for being paid out in the future. But it never will be paid out, the mone yis gone. The creditors can not pay it back even if they would want to. Which they do not want anyway. These credits get used in parts to pay for German products, which means Germany gives a buyer the money he needs to buy our products, in other words: we pay ourselves for our products that we then give away for free. A hilarious, deeply rotten scheme.



Germany's claims in Target-2 saldi alone are beyond 1 trillion Euros now. Thats a one with twelve zeros. That is roughly one third of a yearly GDP.



Worse, Germany traditiionally invest book money profits in debt papers of other states instead of material values like industries, land, ressources. That emans when the finacial system collapses - and soone ror later it will - all these investements will be lost, while other nations like GB, FR, E and I will have still the material values they invested in - last but not least in Germany.



Dear Eurppe then will have to deal with a hot-boiling, internally socially cllapsing Germany once again, and it needs not much fantasy that Germany then once again will become the centre and cause of unrest, conflict and worse that pulls main parts of Europe once again into a maelstrom.


One way or the other I will not live to see that, thank God.



Stupid Germans. Damn silly stupid Germans. The are a self-fulfilling prophecy. And the more they try to act with absolute morality, the worse they make it.

[Rockstar]

TRQ canadian based mining company. Earnings report due COB tomorrow 14 march. I picked up a thousand @ $1.55 for some walkin' around money,(currently at $1.71) not too late too buy ;). At a quick glance TRQ has had some big block trades the last few days, considered by some to be oversold and seems to be following copper prices which are going up!

[Onkel Neal]

Nice, keep us posted.

[Platapus]

I saw this warning on a scroll on GMA or was it MSNBC, but they called it a recession.

What's a recession? I take it that it's not good for rich people :o


When your neighbor loses their job, it’s a recession.
When you lose your job, that’s a depression! :D

But this might help

https://www.frbsf.org/education/publications/doctor-econ/2007/february/recession-depression-difference/

[Rockstar]

EKSO my long term keeper just filed a form 424B3. They said in their earnings conference call they were hoping to share some good news by April, hopefully this is it.



TRQ and others is fun money, EKSO has the potential too make me very very rich :D. Though I am watching them like a hawk as they have tremendous amount of work to accomplish in a very short time before that can happen. On one hand I have my fingers crossed, the other hand is hovering above the ejection button.

[em2nought]

I absolutely hate having business partners. I'll never do that again.

[Rockstar]

EKSO took off today, sitting pretty @2.48 a share. Someone too BOT a big block of shares right after close. I think they might know something I don't. But it's got too be good. Maybe it leaked Ford made a purchase of EKSO skeletons

[Rockstar]

Maybe it'll pop from $2.60 to $19.00 in a day like VCEL did. Wouldn't that be nice :D

https://charts.stocktwits.com/production/original_157276962.gif

[Rockstar]

Was looking at pot stocks seems the boats sailed on without me on most of them. However CBD drinks are supposed to be the next big thing. JSDA might be a good one for someone wanting to get in at a decent price. You could make a couple of bills. I'd wait for it to dip again.

[Skybird]

Just a reminder: just recently the FED capitulated and reversed its still young policy of slowly trying to raise interests above zero again.



Tells a lot on the state of things. The ECB has not even tried to reverse its "negative interest" (=expropriation of private property) course, it mulls an ease for banks at the cost of raising debt even further and create even more of ever more worthless fake money, but I fear that private people will get hit by penalty-interest induced expropriation even harder, because they are all guilty of saving for bad times to come, these irresponsible criminals.



All in the name of "new money theory" and the higher economic interest, of course.



The party gets celebrated on even more tick. A litte more new time gets bought for that fat cats - and the pric eof that the crash at the end will be even harder, and the fall will be from even higher altitude.



Nothing what happens on the stockmarket since years, is healthy, sane and reasonable. New money theory is porn for incapable pseudo-economists who now run fairy tales much worse than the original fairy tale told by Keynes.



Its all a nightmare. Deeper and deeper into the maelstrom. No chance to wake up. And the zombies yell and dance and play the music ever louder.

[Rockstar]

EKSO trying to break through that $2.50 resistance. push baby push :)
2019 make or break for this one. So far I'm pretty happy how things are going. But ol' Mr. Martin-Baker is ready to assist when needed


http://www.furrytalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/funny-pig.gif (http://www.furrytalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/funny-pig.gif)

[Rockstar]

Meanwhile some thoughts on Keynes (language NSFW or virgin ears)

...Getting back to Keynes, he said, “all permanent relations between debtors and creditors, which form the ultimate foundation of capitalism, become so utterly disordered as to be almost meaningless; and the process of wealth-getting degenerates into a gamble and a lottery.”
A gamble and a lottery. Huh? Like speculating on stocks, ICOs, precious metals, real estate, and everything else?...


...He gave us the recipe for “overturning the existing basis of society.” All you have to do is “a continuing process of inflation,” which will “confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens.” This “brings windfalls, beyond their deserts and even beyond their expectations or desires” to the “profiteers, who are the object of the hatred of the bourgeoisie, whom the inflationism has impoverished, not less than of the proletariat.” Finally, this process “engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose.”
https://biiwii.com/2019/03/19/keynes-was-a-vicious-bastard-report/#more-3757




If ya can't beat'em join'em I always say

[Rockstar]

EKSO, it's just been accumulating and bouncing off the top at around $2.50. The more the better but any day now its gonna pop.

[Rockstar]

EKSO, it's just been accumulating and bouncing off the top at around $2.50. The more the better but any day now its gonna pop.


OK, it didn't pop I suggest you BTFD.

[Onkel Neal]

Here we are. Coronavirus panic or overdue correction, who knows but clearly moving into BUY territory.

[Onkel Neal]

Oh mama!

Dow Drops 2,100 Points: Stocks In Meltdown After Temporary Trading Halt (https://www.npr.org/2020/03/12/814853898/stocks-in-meltdown-over-trumps-coronavirus-plan)

https://www.arborinvestmentplanner.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/StockMarketCrash.jpg

[Skybird]

German DAX drops by over ten percent today. Its the latest in a string of drops.

[Onkel Neal]

So; this is like 2008, possibly. Stocks are down but should we assume that in 6 months - 2 years this virus will run its course, businesses will recover even grow from pent up demand?

If you put $10,000 into a stock today that is selling @ $20, if/when it returns to its normal value @ $60, then you triple your money. We saw this in 2008-2011.

If you have the stomach for the risk. If it does not work out, there's no one to complain to. It's every man for himself in the markets.

[em2nought]

So; this is like 2008, possibly. Stocks are down but should we assume that in 6 months - 2 years this virus will run its course, businesses will recover even grow from pent up demand?

If you put $10,000 into a stock today that is selling @ $20, if/when it returns to its normal value @ $60, then you triple your money. We saw this in 2008-2011.

If you have the stomach for the risk. If it does not work out, there's no one to complain to. It's every man for himself in the markets.


It would be a nice time to have some cash on hand.