FUEL LIMITED OR UNLIMITED?

[jorgegonzalito]

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[Rockin Robbins]

When our submarine is sent to a distant mission, the program takes into account whether the submarine with their tanks full can achieve your goal? Otherwise it is planning a stop in some intermediate point to recharge? In the "Attack the Philippines 1941" submarine mission just left Manila Bay and had only 50% of the reserve fuel standard speed probably would not be enough surface to reach the area of operations north of Luzon. Once there no allied bases where you can stock up.
All missions are doable (and twice as far or more) with the fuel supplied. Best fuel economy is at 11 knots and different mods put that at different throttle settings. At 11 knots there's nowhere you can't go and return because the US fleet boat has incredible legs and can go just about anywhere. So cruise at 11 knots and see the world.

But there are things that kill your fuel economy. Foremost among them is doing a crash dive and then forgetting that it firewalls your throttle drinking fuel like a kid drinks Coke at a county fair. Don't do that. In practice I never crash dive at all as long as I have a boat with radar. I'm working on a video about airplane strategy. You'll die how easy it is to deal with them.

Then there's the biggest fuel killer. That's mistakenly thinking that crawling underwater all day so airplanes can't rain on your parade is the best way to stay safe, then surfacing for the hunt at night. This just doesn't work at all in several ways.

The fuel aspect is that when you surface your batteries are flat and you're in no shape to fight. One DD forcing you down can make you breathe water. That's not healthy. But what if you're lucky enough not to get into battle right away and have time to recharge? When batteries are recharging all four engines are running wide freaking open, guzzling fuel as fast as they can. You're paying for your low batteries with tons of diesel fuel. It's the same as charging ahead emergency all night when you have full batteries. It's a guaranteed way to run out of fuel.

Instead, stay on the surface every possible second. Keep those batteries topped off and you at 11 knots unless you're in hot pursuit. Then your range is nearly unlimited. A submarine is a surface fighter which submerges only when it would die if it didn't and which stays under not one second longer than it has to. Then batteries are always nearly charged. Your motors run WFO only when you want. The rest of the time full batteries plus 11 knots mean that you don't even need to look at your fuel level no matter how far your mission.

Can you tell I have some mighty unconventional ideas on how to fight a WWII submarine?:D

[jorgegonzalito]

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[jorgegonzalito]

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[Havan_IronOak]

Based in Pearl I generally refit in Midway to top off my tanks. That makes fulfilling missions in the East China Sea and/or the South China Sea eminently doable on limited fuel provided that you follow the earlier advice as to fuel economy. At 9 knots it generally takes 30% of the fuel to get there and 30% to get back. That leaves you 40% to spend in your mission zone.

If you try the U-boat campaign, remember... There's a Walther boat that you may get that is speedy but a gas hog. The missions in the career game do NOT take account of the boat's limited range.

There SHOULD BE a milch cow sub or a sub tender somewhere on the way to Madagascar but there's not. Either find a mod with that or never try those assignments.

[jorgegonzalito]

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[ColonelSandersLite]

I'm not 100% sure of your exact meaning so I'll try to cover a few possible interpretations.

Yes, it is possible to rearm and refuel during a patrol, but hull damage will not be repaired in this manner.

When you start a patrol, and you are in the navigation map screen, you will see that there are anchors scattered around the pacific. These are Allied Navy Ports (or possibly sub tenders). The port you start at should have a different icon from the rest, this is important.

Getting close enough to any port will cause a screen to popup asking if you want to A: Rearm/Refuel B: Dock C: Postpone

Selecting Rearm/Refuel will refill your gas tanks, refill all deck gun and AA gun ammo, and fill all spare torpedo slots but will not put torpedoes in torpedo tubes. If you wish to fill the torpedo tubes as well, you must have your crew reload torpedoes and then rearm again.

Dock can only be selected at your home port and ends the current patrol.

Postpone just closes the dialog without rearming or ending the patrol.

After selecting an option, you can bring the screen back up by clicking the anchor icon in the warning area (where you usually see an icon if you're submerged or at battle stations)

[Havan_IronOak]

I wouldn't say that I'm advising you to use unlimited fuel. It's your call.
The only time I'd use that option is with the Walther boat if I wanted to try the long distance missions.
You should use what appeals to you.

Remember that you CAN change difficulty settings anytime you're in port. So try a mission one one way the try another a different way.

My current game settings are as follows:
[Current]
LimitedBatteries=true
LimitedCompressedAir=true
LimitedO2=true
LimitedFuel=true
RealisticRepairTime=true
ManualTargetingSystem=true
NoMapUpdate=false
RealisticSensors=true
DudTorpedoes=true
RealisticReload=true
NoEventCamera=true
NoExternalView=false
NoStabilizeView=true
MPShowPlayerNames=true
MPShowTorpedoes=true

I do like to watch things explode, hence my leaving the external camera on, also I haven't bothered to master celestial navigation yet so I let the map update take care of that.

[Rockin Robbins]

I wouldn't say that I'm advising you to use unlimited fuel. It's your call.
The only time I'd use that option is with the Walther boat if I wanted to try the long distance missions.
You should use what appeals to you.

Remember that you CAN change difficulty settings anytime you're in port. So try a mission one one way the try another a different way.

My current game settings are as follows:
[Current]
LimitedBatteries=true
LimitedCompressedAir=true
LimitedO2=true
LimitedFuel=true
RealisticRepairTime=true
ManualTargetingSystem=true
NoMapUpdate=false
RealisticSensors=true
DudTorpedoes=true
RealisticReload=true
NoEventCamera=true
NoExternalView=false
NoStabilizeView=true
MPShowPlayerNames=true
MPShowTorpedoes=true

I do like to watch things explode, hence my leaving the external camera on, also I haven't bothered to master celestial navigation yet so I let the map update take care of that.

My exact settings. You have to spell them out because the same selections are different percentages of "realism" (which is no realism) in different supermods.

I actually think those settings are the closest to reality that you can get in SH4.

[jorgegonzalito]

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[Crannogman]

You may find a useful alternative to crash diving is to cruise with decks awash. You can find other threads on how to do this; basically, it involves changing your boat's "radar depth" to about 9 meters. At this depth, you can run on diesels and go to the bridge, but most of the hull is below the surface; your speed is limited to submerged speeds (maxing out near 12 knots), but you can fully submerge in half the time and present a much smaller profile for enemies to spot. "Decks awash" is probably the best way to travel long distances during daylight

[Havan_IronOak]

You may find a useful alternative to crash diving is to cruise with decks awash. "Decks awash" is probably the best way to travel long distances during daylight...

And it makes your sig quote about the USS Monitor so much more relevant, no? ;)

[Sailor Steve]

Making an attack in that condition might be a good idea, but cruising? Not only would that slow you down, but would increase fuel consumption dramatically.

The best discussion we've had on the subject can be found here (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=200718).

[Rockin Robbins]

You may find a useful alternative to crash diving is to cruise with decks awash. You can find other threads on how to do this; basically, it involves changing your boat's "radar depth" to about 9 meters. At this depth, you can run on diesels and go to the bridge, but most of the hull is below the surface; your speed is limited to submerged speeds (maxing out near 12 knots), but you can fully submerge in half the time and present a much smaller profile for enemies to spot. "Decks awash" is probably the best way to travel long distances during daylight
Cruising decks awash at ahead emergency gives you a speed of 10 knots, may vary with mods. At that speed you do not charge batteries at all as all power is pushing the boat. Cruising surfaced at 11 knots gives you maximum fuel economy. Makes no sense to use decks awash for normal cruising unless you're working for the Japanese.

With radar there is no scenario where you can't have several minutes to hit the periscope depth button and get to periscope depth without touching the throttle several minutes before the plane could possibly see you. As a matter of fact, there is no reason ever to leave the nav map while cruising in an airplane infested area, no reason ever to touch the throttle, no reason to go under 8x time compression the entire time it is so simple to deal with air gnats.

I guess I know what my next video tutorial is going to be on. But decks awash is not an appropriate tool for dealing with airplanes. It's using a shotgun to swat a mosquito. Planes are not a danger factor in Silent Hunter 4.

[Crannogman]

Making an attack in that condition might be a good idea, but cruising? Not only would that slow you down, but would increase fuel consumption dramatically.

The best discussion we've had on the subject can be found here (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=200718).

That discussion is far from definitive; the only testing concluded that Decks Awash's reuction in silhouette does in fact seem to reduce detection in-game. This makes sense, since game spotting is based upon surface area above water. Also, speed is reduced, although not so much to keep you from maintaining your most efficient diesel speed, ~11kts.

However, nobody did any efficiency testing. In my experience (but without empiric testing, Decks Awash does not drain fuel tanks as fast as running the same speed fully submerged drains batteries, nor does it use as much diesel as running full or flank on the surface. A test would not be hard to design...

[ColonelSandersLite]

Yeah, I wouldn't recommend running DA for prolonged periods either. It just eats gas and kills your speed.

I just crash dive. I don't find it impacts the length of the patrol all that much. It may take a couple of days off of your maximum loiter time, but I don't find that to be a big issue. Especially since I almost always run out of torpedoes well before I run out of fuel. In my experience, there is a tradeoff between a crash dive and a regular dive. In a crash dive, I find that it's very rare for an aircraft to spot me before I get under water. With a regular dive, I have had enemy aircraft spot me before I submerge and attempt to bomb where I was plenty of times. Further, when you have been spotted, air patrols in the area will ramp up substantially, meaning you will have to dive more often. In the balance of things, I feel that crash diving actually tends to use less fuel overall than regular diving. SJ-I Radar might change this, but I tend to just play it safe where aircraft are involved.

Also, while I wouldn't generally recommend just running submerged during the day, I have been known to do so. Specifically in the event where I'm getting buzzed by aircraft frequently enough that it's becoming a real annoyance. Though I fully admit that in this case I'm purely trading fuel for gameplay convenience. There is, to my mind, an exception though. Specifically, this would be at the start of the war if you don't have air search radar. In this case, I don't find that you can reliably spot an aircraft and submerge before it has a chance to make at least one pass on your sub.

@Crannogman
Yeah, you can maintain 11 knots DA, but only at a much higher engine RPM, which kills fuel efficiency. Testing in game isn't difficult at all, the game has a maximum range at current speed button built right in.

[Rockin Robbins]

Totally agree. Cruising at best fuel economy is so you can crash dive, and can do an ahead emergency pursuit for several hours without worrying about fuel consumption. You're in effect putting fuel in the bank during maximum efficiency cruising to be spent liberally on the short hunts that the cruise develops.

And what you say about early in the war is correct for the game but incorrect about reality. Standard orders on the best boats were to spot the plane and consult the captain, who would give orders to dive if necessary. They would have plenty of time to watch the plane and assess whether it was necessary to dive, in spite of the fact that they didn't have radar. Fluckey spends a lot of time discussing that in "Thunder Below."

In the game your best response is to dive to periscope depth if you don't have radar. The LAST thing you want to do is man the AA gun. It's more effective to point your finger at the plane and yell "Bang! Bang!" But you better do that as you're headed down the ladder and the sub is crash diving....

[Havan_IronOak]

I've been dealing with planes a lot lately while getting to the South China Sea and in cruising that area. I've always caught approaching planes on my radar in plenty of time to submerge from normal surface cruising depth to periscope depth in plenty of time to avoid detection without any crash diving. I generally plot the course of the planes when first detected and try to avoid diving if the plane's closest approach point puts me outside 5500 Meters. If it's gonna be a near thing that I think is questionable, I go to decks awash and then wait to make the final call a bit later.

Planes tend to stay on course so 7 minutes from the time I've hit periscope depth I'm surfacing and continuing on. Ramping up acceleration a step at a time back to 256 or so. It then drops back down to 8 when the next plane is spotted. It's mostly an annoyance that I wish I could leave standing orders for. (an automated mode maybe in SH6)


I'm running the following mods
Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157
[C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\Silent Hunters wolves of the pacific\MODS]

01 Improved Stock Environment_v3
02 ISE Realistic Colors
03 Dark Recognitionmanual
04 MaxOptics IV for SH4 1.5
05 OM_SH3_Command_Keys
08 3000 Meter Bearing Tool (1920x)
09 Sobers Better Sand II
10 Captain Midnights CBS News
12 BBC World
merchant skinpack release

[ColonelSandersLite]

I generally plot the course of the planes when first detected and try to avoid diving if the plane's closest approach point puts me outside 5500 Meters.

Oh, worth mentioning. This doesn't work if you're playing without map contacts on. In my experience, the best option is:

1: Get Report "Radar Contact Bearing XXX"
2: Immediately order a crash dive
3: Go straight the surface radar screen and check around the reported bearing.
4: If it was a ship, cancel dive and proceed normally. Otherwise, continue evasive action.


I 100% agree that I wish you could just have a standing order to deal with aircraft as well. At least for situations where the aircraft is the only contact. It makes sense to me that a player might want to do something else if also chasing a convoy or something. It's just one of the things in the game that gets really friggin tedious. Sometimes I'm even tempted to go through the campaign files and just remove all the airbases, but that would have unwanted secondary effects so I never actually have.