Close Combat: Gateway to Caen

[Nippelspanner]

Finally bought it after had it sitting a long time on my wishlist, forgetting to buy it during sales and what not.
I just couldn't be bothered anymore with not owning it so I just hit the "take my money!!!" button.

Anyone else here playing it? :salute:

[Oberon]

There's a video here of two very strange people playing it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39GgqJ7uCqo

[Nippelspanner]

Nice! :)

[Dowly]

Yup, play it occasionally.

[Nippelspanner]

For those who don't know yet, there is a blood mod (MP compatible it seems) for Gateway to Caen.
It isn't over-done and makes it easier to distinguish between dead and alive soldiers.
Also, blood for blood God! :)

Link (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3646376#)

[Dowly]

Also, my less accurate mortars: Link (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3675217)

That was made during 1.0, though.

(Really, the stock mortars are waaaaay to accurate after their first shot)

[Nippelspanner]

Self advertisement?
Shamefurr dispray!

That mod is only for SP though, I figure?
In any case, the mortars are disturbingly accurate. I learned to love and fear them instantly. :)

[Dowly]

SP as far as I know. (unless both host and client uses it, I think.)

Another thing I like to mod is the later era german guns to have +25% accuracy, to simulate the zeiss scopes.

As stock, every gun has the same base accuracy, which I find a bit silly.

[Nippelspanner]

Either for balancing reasons or because the game isn't as deeply researched as I thought it is. Can't really comment on that yet.

I tried snipers last night in SP campaign mode, they struck me as completely useless, except for reconnaissance which might even justify the slot but... 60 rounds for 1 kill? Doesn't sound too much like sniping... :-?
I see how they must not be overpowered, it could break things fast but making them useless doesn't strike me as a good idea.

What are your experiences with snipers?

[Nippelspanner]

I created a steam group (http://steamcommunity.com/groups/GatewayToCaen#) after looking for one yet not finding anything.
This should make it way easier to find potential players.
It is an open group with an unlimited supply of German beer and topless girls - so feel free to join everyone.

[HunterICX]

There's a video here of two very strange people playing it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39GgqJ7uCqo

Strange? :doh:

Either for balancing reasons or because the game isn't as deeply researched as I thought it is. Can't really comment on that yet.

Well, I do wager it would made more sense if they're only as accurate as they are in the stock games if the firing zone is in the LOS of a Platoon HQ unit which has a radio to relay corrections.

I tried snipers last night in SP campaign mode, they struck me as completely useless, except for reconnaissance which might even justify the slot but... 60 rounds for 1 kill? Doesn't sound too much like sniping... :-?
I see how they must not be overpowered, it could break things fast but making them useless doesn't strike me as a good idea.

What are your experiences with snipers?I've barely used them, I do however had situations that I suddently lost a whole platoon who I though to be safe by a sniper that I couldn't detect.

I created a steam group (http://steamcommunity.com/groups/GatewayToCaen#) after looking for one yet not finding anything.
This should make it way easier to find potential players.
It is an open group with an unlimited supply of German beer and topless girls - so feel free to join everyone.

Subscribed, recently reinstalled both Panthers in the Fog and Gateway to Caen.

[Nippelspanner]

Nice, we should play sometime! :)

[CybrSlydr]

Close Combat 3 was one of my all-time favorite strategy games. LOVED playing it - though I learned quickly to play as the Germans, load up on MG42 units and press play to win.

US infantry units with the M1/Carbines are woefully inaccurate and can't hit anything. Same with the .30cal MG, etc. The only useful thing the US had were tanks - and those were pretty easy to destroy!

That said, I adored that game. I love the lack of base building and just straight focus on tactics and maneuvering. I keep hoping for a modern update with graphics and the like, but I'm continually disappointed.

[Dowly]

Bump!

I did some research today, trying to figure out how to make the allied AI a bit more aggressive and I think I found something interesting.
(All of which has been in CC for years, I just didn't get the memo)

In the BGroup.txt, there are values for 4 commander attributes: Aggression, Caution, Charisma and Tactical Skill. (Last four numerical values on each line Clicky! (http://i.imgur.com/SZaXLfi.jpg))

Aggression is self-explanatory. Like all the attributes, it ranges from -5 to 5, former meaning extremely defensive tactics and latter being all-out attack.
All of the Allied BGs have this set to 5, so that's not the problem.

Next up is Caution, which governs the commander's use of reserves. Setting it to 5, means the commander will keep lots of reserves, while -5 means basically no reserves.
All BGs have this set to 0.

Coming up is Charisma. Something something morale.
All BGs have this set to 0 as well.

Last one is Tactical Skill, meaning how many plans the AI has to choose from. 5 = ALL THE PLANS!, -5 = Plans?
This appears to be set to 5 for all Allied BGs.

So, I did some testing with Allies being the attacker and it would seem like the tactical skill is what's slowing the AI down. Lowering caution also helps the attack as more teams are used in a single thrust, instead of waves.

Here's a sped-up video using the stock values for Allied commander. *Axis units are set to 'defend' from start*
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDsm2bQ4MBw

Things to note:
- Single Bren section used for recon. This is rather usual for the AI and it's basically a wasted team as it most of the time gets slaughtered.
- Attack stalls immediately as the Allied infantry takes cover in the buildings.
- Churchill Mk.VI, instead of supporting the infantry, takes cover in the courtyard.
- Armor starts to push on once infantry has already taken big losses. I assume the reason for this is that they were in a 'support group'. The AI groups its units for recon/support/reserve/command/attack (or something to that effect.)
- No Axis teams eliminated.

Results:
ALLIES: 9 KIA, 27 WIA, Morale 63%, no flags captured.

AXIS: 2 KIA, 6 WIA, Morale 100%

Here's a video showing the AI after I changed both caution and tactical skill to -5. *Axis units are set to 'defend' from start*
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cyI3p0lfds

Things to note:
- No wasted recon teams.
- Attack doesn't stall immediately.
- Infantry is not bunched up inside a building, but spread out.
- Tanks, especially the Churchill Mk.VI stays close to the infantry, supporting the attack. The Crocodile, I assume was part of a 'support group' as it appeared to move whenever the Platoon HQ and the PIAT were moving.
- Three Axis teams eliminated.

Results:
ALLIES: 9 KIA, 21 WIA, Morale 63%, one flag captured.

AXIS: 7 KIA, 12 WIA, Morale 48%

Results will naturally vary as there is more to the AI that is unfortunately hardcoded. Definitely needs more testing (tank battles, defensive battles, axis side etc.)

[Nippelspanner]

Very nice, I also concur with the observations that vanilla AI mostly hides its tanks and never uses his PIAT etc.

I will try these settings, as the AI starts to bore me. In Op epsom, they can't even push in at all and bite their teeth on my defences while often they could have overrun my positions. Here's hope they will act a bit more daring now - just like the Tommies did back then! :)

[Dowly]

The 'caution' attribute definitely affects defense grouping as well. I ran the scenarios through about 10 times for each setting.

Aggression 5, Caution 5, Tactical Skill 5
http://i.imgur.com/yzcEjjal.jpg (http://imgur.com/yzcEjja)
Defense concentrates to the center of the town with forward infantry screen.

Aggression 5, Caution -5, Tactical Skill 5
http://i.imgur.com/9R5bTZPl.jpg (http://imgur.com/9R5bTZP)
Defenses more spread out. Interestingly, one of the exit flags is also defended.

[Dowly]

As I am not sure if any of the patches change things in the weapons.txt, here's an up-to-date version of the Less Accurate Mortars mod:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/9jdsyi1mgbnvda4/Weapons.txt

81mm & 3inch mortars' accuracy reduced by 50% from 461 to 250. Smoke rounds and 2inch mortars are unchanged.

Put the file to "Close Combat - Gateway to Caen\DATA\BASE", make a backup of the original file.

[Nippelspanner]

Danke!

[Nippelspanner]

Personally, I found -5 Caution too extreme, they at times mass-charged like mad Russians at Stalingrad, dying in hails of machine gun fire.

I put it in the middle, 0, and so far things seem good.
They still push when they think they have the opportunity but won't throw their lives away anymore.

Mortar fix was also applied, I don't really notice a huge difference yet,
fire is still very accurate, but I haven't used mortars much since the fix.

[Nippelspanner]

Ok, mortars definitely have a higher spread now, yet effectiveness kinda is the same. Due to the slightly higher spread, they hit more targets in the surrounding area or at least suppress targets even better - latter one being the wanted effect.

Hard to say how effectiveness in terms of incapacitating targets really changed, but I like the suppression factor.

[Dowly]

The spread wasn't my concern, but the silly sniper shots the mortars make constantly.
Note that the accuracy is just a 'base' accuracy, the units experience and morale play part in the calculation as well.

http://i.imgur.com/wlsn6ZZ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/kbBA7Y3.jpg

[Dowly]

I may have given the Grille ability to fire in-direct fire. :88)

http://i.imgur.com/sUAe5ga.gif

[Nippelspanner]

I wonder where you got that idea from... :hmmm:

One problem I see with it is it makes things incredibly OP. Hiding a mortar way back is one thing, but ~2-4 Grillen is another thing and I don't think the AI could ever counter it.

[Dowly]

I wonder where you got that idea from... :hmmm:I did not steal his idea, it's not true! It's BS! I did not steal it! I did nooot.

Oh hai, Nippelspanner!

One problem I see with it is it makes things incredibly OP. Hiding a mortar way back is one thing, but ~2-4 Grillen is another thing and I don't think the AI could ever counter it.Yes, spamming them makes it OP. But overall it's not that bad. It works the same as a mortar, i.e. takes 20sec to aim the first shot which never hits, after that 20sec to reload and 10secs to aim and after that 20secs between shots.

So if the enemy is moving, it's going to be hard to hit them. (though, the 150mm got a huge blast radius)

[Nippelspanner]

Capping their ammo by ~50% (how much do they have anyways?) might balance things a little as well and won't necessarily make them a no-brainer choice over sGrw34 teams every time.

I propose:
Grille have low ammo and accuracy (25%) for 2-3 harsh fire missions.
sGrw34 have vanilla ammo and your modded acc. for I think 5 fire missions.

This way, both stay an option, depending on the situation, I'd say.

[Dowly]

The Grille's got 12 HE rounds, so that's enough for two fire missions.

One fire mission, depending on the crew skill (affects reload time) takes about 3 minutes and 20 seconds to complete. There is also no target reference point left to mark the last FM like mortars do (dunno why), so you are wasting one round (spotting) per fire mission.

I'll probably see, if I can clone the Grille and make a new unit and call it "Grille (indirect)" or something and add 1-2 of those per BGs that already the direct-fire Grilles. :hmmm:

[Nippelspanner]

In that case I would leave her be for now...

[Dowly]

As per Nippelspanner's request, here's a mod that changes the German infantry to use the light MG34 instead of the light MG42. Tanks, MG teams etc. still use MG42.

JSGME ready, otherwise manually copy the file to data/base.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/2oony4v0u2cct6g/MG42+be+gone.zip

Haven't tested it other than that it works.

[Nippelspanner]

As per Nippelspanner's request
http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/c2/c263180fd10832bc6f41ef553353f70bbaf672ecb22ad1be95 3a3c63b7bcde0e.jpg

[Dowly]

Version that removes half of the light MG42s:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/sxzcno203sdnq2l/Half+the+MG42+be+gone.zip

Most teams have two variants which the game uses when giving you troops. Seems like it uses these variants at a ratio of 50/50.
http://i.imgur.com/RaPzWAR.jpg

[Nippelspanner]

Most teams have two variants which the game uses when giving you troops. Seems like it uses these variants at a ratio of 50/50.

That is not coincidental, if you meant to imply this.

For those interested:
The left teams are always (if fresh) the one with the squad leader (MP40) and a 'stationary' MG42, the right teams are always formed of the asst. leader/team leader (G43) and the "Sturm" variant of the MG42 (shorter, quicker burst & fire on the move), as well as a PzFst30 unit.
Left teams are cover-fire teams and the right one are maneuver-teams, which makes sense.
A stationary MG42 that needs to be set up first should be more effective at longer ranges, and back there is no need for short ranged anti tank weapons.
That is also how I started to use my teams and I dare to say I'm more effective since, but that might be coincidental.