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[cultist]

Greetings sirs, i am a player that recently returned to SH3 simulation and that wants to get better at this game (this is the reason that i am writing to you).
After a bit of reading i understood and successfully applied the manual targeting techniques both with magic eye and without.
I came to prefer the fast 90 technique and using magic eye (for now) developing a simplified alternative that goes like this:

-Fast determination of target course
-Maneuver the sub so that it is at a 90degree angle of course and a distance of 500-1000
-Submerge to periscope depth, 0 speed, and with magic eye help determine speed (take initial position on the course then take it after 3'15'', measure the distancex10=speed)
-Go to TDC, switch to manual data and input data and this is where i changed things. I input speed, set up the attack for 90degrees AOB at 0degree of my bearing. This is classical. Then i set the torpedo for impact and 3000 meters distance since distance becomes irrelevant (right?), then i set the tdc back to automatic and the periscope movement will adjust AOB (and modify the course of the torpedo automatically).
Sounds familiar? Am i doing some reasoning wrong? This worked with mixed success so far.

The other part that i need some feedback is related to gameplay.
I have GWX with hsie and revise stiebler mods (this works for gwx right?).
The problem is this, when i go out on patrols i move on surface, take the observation crew out and expect ship contacts, but the observation crew skill is poor at night and bad weather (realistic isn't it). So not surprisingly most of my deaths are because of nights and bad weathers when your crew says warship spotted close distance... it's game over.
What is the approach for this situation?
Do you move&hunt at nights and bad weather or sit them out at a comfortable depth?
Seriously, i hate bad weather!
And on a side note, what is the detection range for a destroyer at the beginning of the war?
Also, is there a way to make the observation crew better? I use no crew fatigue and i have a watchman officer on the tower with regular sailors and the tower green bar (efficiency?) is full.
Cultist out

[Fahnenbohn]

Hello, welcome back to SH3 !

Do you move&hunt at nights and bad weather or sit them out at a comfortable depth?

I'm using an environmental mod with very dark nights (as in RL life), and it's very difficult, if not impossible, to detect ships with binocculars or UZO. So, i alternate surface and underwater navigation. Thus, i'm able to detect ships with the hydrophone. And normally, before the destroyers are equipped with radar, you should see the enemy before it sees you.

Seriously, i hate bad weather!

I LOVE bad weather ! Certainly, your visibility is reduced, but there are two major advantages to it : when you are submerged, destroyers are very less able to detect you, and at surface, if you are using Stiebler patch, the ennemi's speed is reduced, allowing you to go faster than a convoy and escaping more easily if you have been detected.

[Markus Witt]

I'm using an environmental mod with very dark nights (as in RL life), and it's very difficult, if not impossible, to detect ships with binocculars or UZO.

Which mod is this if you don't mind me asking?

[cultist]

So, i alternate surface and underwater navigation.

Can you go into details? When visibility drops say after 21'o'oclock you navigate submerged until 5'o'clock? Do you surface at night? things like that :)
Thank you

[Plumber1]

Welcome back Cultist.

Firstly I would ask why, if you adjust the range to 3000 anyway you don't just set the correct range from the start? when shooting at 500 - 1000m it shouldn't make much difference PROVIDED all your other settings are correct. If you set the range upto 2500m further than the target actually is, and then mis-diagnose the speed of the target then even at this short range the eel could miss. The results will be more marked the faster the target is travelling.

As you progress through the war you'll be forced to take longer and longer shots to avoid detection so get used to getting the correct range now!:up:

Secondly I agree with you that prolonged bad weather is a PITA. In this type of weather I would recommend staying submerged (at least 30m down) at ahead slow (about 2 Kts) until your battery is down to around 80% charge, then surface to recharge fully then down again. Below 30m you'll still be able to hear upto 30 Km away rather than see upto 500m. By not letting the battery dicharge too much you'll minimise the amount of time on the surface and give youself the best chance of detecvting the enemy.

This isn't as fuel efficient as running on the surface constantly but it's better than ramming a destroyer in the middle of a storm.:oops:

steve.

[Aktungbby]

Markus Witt! :salute: after a considerable silent run!

[Fahnenbohn]

Which mod is this if you don't mind me asking?

I have changed all environmental colors by myself, because it was a necessity : stock game's colors are absolutely disgusting, and i was not satisfied with other mods released by others. Work is still in progress, and I think i'm going to release it soon, if i manage to correct the last imperfections. If you want a preview, follow this link :

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2324965&postcount=30

And screenshots of a starry night :


Do you see my U-Boot ?

http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2015/08/04//15080404032818069013487093.png (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=15080404032818069013487093.png)


There is a ship at 5000 meters from us :

http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2015/08/04//15080404035218069013487095.png (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=15080404035218069013487095.png)


Ah ! Much better :

http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2015/08/04//15080404034718069013487094.png (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=15080404034718069013487094.png)


And finally, in winter, nights are even darker ...

But i wonder if you will like to play with these realistic nights ... :hmmm:

Regards,

F.

[Fahnenbohn]

Can you go into details? When visibility drops say after 21'o'oclock you navigate submerged until 5'o'clock? Do you surface at night? things like that :)
Thank you

When i am near the friendly shores, I navigate at surface, but as soon as I arrive on the high seas, I become increasingly careful, and alternate let's say 30 minutes at surface, and 3 hours under the water. When I got near the enemy coast, and especially in busy areas, I stay all night under the water, sailing at minimum speed.

One day, i was sailing at surface at 150 km away from the english coast, i gave order to go to periscopic depth, and immediately, my hydrophone man said : warship spotted, short range, 330 degrees ! That was a british destroyer ... :D

[Zosimus]

Here's some advice for what good it may do you.

I assume that you are tracking a convoy. The first step to tracking a convoy is to determine its heading. This is hard when you cannot get a visual on the cargo ships. The escorts change course all the time and although you can (eventually) get the course by watching escorts, it can take much longer and is quite hard to do in the rain.

There is, however, a simple, safe, and foolproof way to determine the convoy's heading. The key is to look for stragglers. Behind any convoy, there is almost always a tramp steamer (or two) that has fallen behind the others and is struggling to catch up. The key is that its heading is the same as that of the convoy. You can safely intercept this straggler to determine its heading or use the three-bearing method (hydrophone) to determine its course.

Once that's done, you can draw a course line through the target (you can use the hydrophone distance... it doesn't matter really) and then extend this line as far as you can. You can just hold the mouse open drawing the line and use the arrow keys to move the screen till you get to a conveniently long distance.

Now catch up to the convoy. If you can hear the convoy by hydrophone, then it must be less than 20 km away. If you cannot hear the convoy, just draw a 20.0 circle and race in the direction of the convoy until you hit the 20 km mark and go to 25m under to listen again. Sooner or later, you'll find that convoy and hear one of the cargo ships.

Pay attention to the speed. If the merchant speed is "slow" then it must be moving at 7 or fewer knots. If the speed says "medium" then it must be at 8 or more knots.

Draw a circle centered where that merchant's hydrophone line intercepts the line you've drawn. The radius of the circle should be 13.6 for slow (7 knots) or 15.6 for medium (8 knots) and note down the time one hour from now on a separate sheet of paper. That's where the ship should be in one hour assuming that the heading and speed are accurate.

Then surface and move to intercept. Assuming you are behind the convoy, your heading should be about 30-50 degrees off of the convoy's heading. Initially, 40 is a good number. You'll want to go about 5 km and then go to 25 meters for another listen. If it seems that you're not catching up to the convoy, then go to 30º off of its course. If it seems that you're catching up too quickly then go to 50º off of its course.

Then cruise on out until you are 18 km off of the projected course or until the hour is up. Listen to the convoy every hour. Does it seem to be on the course you have projected? Does it seem to have covered the right amount of distance? If not, you may have to adjust your speed or heading assumptions. It may take several hours to overtake the convoy, and you will have plenty of time to refine your assumptions.

Once you're 18 km out, simply parallel the convoy (or maybe 0-5º angled toward it) until you have passed the convoy. Then angle in maybe 20-30º until you intercept the line you've drawn. Don't forget to listen for the convoy every hour and to keep drawing circles showing where you think the convoy will be in one hour's time.

Good luck!

[cultist]

Thank you very much!
All good strategies :salute:

[cultist]

Anxious to share my results! My first convoy! (the training one, doesn't count)
September 1939 spotted a 4 lane convoy with 3 warships, 1 at each end and one big warship in the middle 3nd lane. These guys even had a sub... which i detected with the rest of them when i was surfaced.
Got the general path (was using magic eye) and speed and went 18km further away placing myself inbetween 1 and 2nd lane because the 2nd one had the biggest ships.
Periscope depth, no periscope yet, used hydrophone so that i knew that the first warship passed me and the convoy was moving toward me, when i was in the middle, up periscope, went to tdc to set up torpedo run and what do you know, i had the steam ones (oh no...). Well they had to do, quickly imputed data in tdc, selected the biggest cargo ship - 2 torpedoes and the big warship 2 torpedos. As the last torpedo left the tube i dive to 30m silent run, 1km/h away from the convoy general route. Both 4 torpedoes impacted, both ships sunk. I couldn't believe my eyes! Did i really do that??

I had to run away though because i am not as good as you are and i don't want to risk getting caught now that i bagged the big fish, i will leave the convoy for now but the patrol on that grid ain't over, i still have fuel and torpedoes left :)

Thank you all, it really paid off. Looking ahead for the next convoys, where i will try to do more than 1 torpedo run.
:salute:

[Pisces]

If your crew only sees the target at close range and then quickly gets killed I suspect you are using high time compression rates. The crew should be able to see targets much further, but they need to have the time to react to it. The high time compression works like the enemy making large jumps across the world, and so happen to jump deep into your vicinity. Try to reduce the TC rate to 128x or 256x.

[cultist]

Well, i introduced this routine. When the weather is fine (:D) and night is in i reduce speed of my patrol to 4-5 knots and surface patrol, when the weather is bad i go submerged and go out to recharge batteries. At daylight i usually go with 10 knots. Indeed i was using high time compression but since i changed my routine i never had troubles. Still it's only September 1939, will play with lower TC as well from now on, just for good measure. I wonder if this routine will hold later in the war.
Cheers!

[Zosimus]

While traveling through storms, I have been found, shelled, and rammed by destroyers. In most cases my watch never noticed the destroyer at all. This was at TC 64. Do not rely on low time control to magically save you from super AI and puzzlingly blind watch crews.

"We've been rammed, sir!"
"By whom?"
"We don't know! We didn't see anyone!"

[Fahnenbohn]

While traveling through storms, I have been found, shelled, and rammed by destroyers. In most cases my watch never noticed the destroyer at all. This was at TC 64. Do not rely on low time control to magically save you from super AI and puzzlingly blind watch crews.

"We've been rammed, sir!"
"By whom?"
"We don't know! We didn't see anyone!"

:shifty: That's odd ...

[Plumber1]

It can be very hard to force yourself to dive for a listen when the weather is good (clear blue skies and flat calm) but even in these conditions you'll hear targets twice as far away as you'll see them so don't get caught in the "I'll stay on the surface as I can see for miles" trap.

Also make sure you do as much of the searching (either with the binos or the hydrophone) as possible yourself, you'd be amazed how much your crew miss, particularly with the hydrophones.

Good hunting.

[Markus Witt]

But i wonder if you will like to play with these realistic nights ... :hmmm:

Regards,

F.

I certainly would, look's great. I use NYGM now and find the nights much too bright. Makes it too easy to identify targets. In my memory the nights used to be darker.


Markus Witt! :salute: after a considerable silent run!

Well, oxygen was running low after all that time down below. I had to surface. I used to play GWX until my old laptop died. I'm now trying NYGM, looking for a more "hardcore" experience.

[Zosimus]

All I can say is that it's depressingly common. You're shadowing a convoy about 10-12 km off and suddenly your time control goes to 8 orange. You hit C for crash dive (cheating, really), but it's already too late. Somehow an escort has found you through the blinding rain and gale force winds even though you're well out of visual range of the convoy even in moderate weather. Magically, too, the ship is always on a collision course with you before it even fires the first salvo.

Despite the rain, the gunnery crew is perfectly accurate, and before you can reach periscope depth every compartment is flooding. If you're lucky you can avoid being rammed, but you're still going to take depth charges at 15-20 meters depth. The only advantage is that with that much flooding, you'll reach a safe depth far faster than normal.

[Fahnenbohn]

The only advantage is that with that much flooding, you'll reach a safe depth far faster than normal.

:rotfl2: Safe depth ? When depth under keel is more than 1000 meters ?? :D

[cultist]

After reading about the Battle of the Atlantic i have to say that submarine warfare in WW2 was depressing as well. First i was thinking that the submarine was an advanced piece of machinery that could take most of the antisubmarine measures if the crew was intelligent enough and that the Germans have lost the battle of the Atlantic because they had few submarines (pretty unrealistic image, i have to admit). Now i know that the Uboat war was an exercise in futility, that Britain was never close to losing this battle and that effective antisubmarine measures took intelligence out of the equation.
It was kaput from the start. Pretty depressive i have to say but a valuable historical lesson learned by me and if anything i have to thank this great simulation for making me want to know more. But there are moments when i wonder, probably like the Uboat crews, why do i keep going..
:salute:

[Zosimus]

:rotfl2: Safe depth ? When depth under keel is more than 1000 meters ?? :D

By safe depth, I mean a depth at which the ASDIC of the escort will be ineffective. With 15 m/s wind, you don't have to go very deep for that to occur.

[Fahnenbohn]

By safe depth, I mean a depth at which the ASDIC of the escort will be ineffective. With 15 m/s wind, you don't have to go very deep for that to occur.

Yes, of course Zosimus, but with heavy floodings, your U-Boot will dive in the abysses, and there, sure, destroyers won't be able to ping you ! ... ;)

[Kapt Z]

All I can say is that it's depressingly common. You're shadowing a convoy about 10-12 km off and suddenly your time control goes to 8 orange. You hit C for crash dive (cheating, really), but it's already too late. Somehow an escort has found you through the blinding rain and gale force winds even though you're well out of visual range of the convoy even in moderate weather. Magically, too, the ship is always on a collision course with you before it even fires the first salvo.


Radar.

After mid '41 cruising on the surface in heavy fog and heavy rain is just asking for trouble. Lost 3 boats in a row that way a few years back. Only one time out of that three did I even make it to the bridge before my boat was sunk. Then only to see the anchor of a Black Swan frigate looming over my head.... Next stop? POW camp.

Now I wait out those storms at 60m.

[Fahnenbohn]

Radar.

After mid '41 cruising on the surface in heavy fog and heavy rain is just asking for trouble. Lost 3 boats in a row that way a few years back. Only one time out of that three did I even make it to the bridge before my boat was sunk. Then only to see the anchor of a Black Swan frigate looming over my head.... Next stop? POW camp.

Now I wait out those storms at 60m.

All is said ... :salute:

[Zosimus]

Radar.

After mid '41 cruising on the surface in heavy fog and heavy rain is just asking for trouble. Lost 3 boats in a row that way a few years back. Only one time out of that three did I even make it to the bridge before my boat was sunk. Then only to see the anchor of a Black Swan frigate looming over my head.... Next stop? POW camp.

Now I wait out those storms at 60m.

You wait at 60m for 3-4 weeks? You're a brave man.