Tested Biological Warfare On The Whole Of San Francisco

[mapuc]

:o And they were allowed to do this

http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/us-military-simulated-biological-warfare-san-francisco

It sounds like a prime conspiracy theory, and indeed if you type it into Google that’s a lot of what you find, but for a period of at least 20 years, the U.S. army carried out simulated open-air biological warfare attacks

Markus

[Oberon]

They tested anthrax on the tube back in the 1960s but the trains still got delayed.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1843181.stm

[Buddahaid]

I was there man! The summer of love........ :|\\

[Aktungbby]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Sea-Spray (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Sea-Spray) Well I'm doomed: "Bacillus globigii (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacillus_globigii), never shown to be harmful to people, was released in San Francisco, New York, Washington, D.C., and along the Pennsylvania Turnpike, among other places" In the 1950s army researchers dispersed zinc cadmium sulfide (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc_cadmium_sulfide) (now a known cancer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer)-causing agent) over Minnesota (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota) and other Midwestern states to see how far they would spread in the atmosphere. The particles were detected more than 1,000 miles away in New York (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York) state. No illnesses were ever attributed to them as a result." Between growing up in '50's Minnesota and driving my rig on the Pennsylvania Turnpike, something's gotta give; but I suspect the DDT:timeout: mosquito spraying of my youth was a far greater threat...along with radon in all Minnesota basements. :dead: EDIT: actually the DDT wasn't so bad; a lot of hype; http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/the-truth-about-ddt-and-silent-spring (http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/the-truth-about-ddt-and-silent-spring)

[Wolferz]

If they're going to test vector dispersal methods, they should be doing it over Mexico. :-?

At least, now we know what's wrong with Aktungbby.:03::O::haha:

[Aktungbby]

:ping:
At least, now we know what's wrong with Aktungbby.:03::O::haha:

No kidding!:03: :hmph: My brother has a system in his PA house basement along the Greasy green banks of the Schukyll River. 'Radon is the leading cause of lung cancer for non-smokers and the second leading cause of lung cancer in the general population. The Surgeon General and EPA recommend testing for radon and reducing radon in homes that have high levels. Fix your home if your radon level is confirmed to be 4 picocuries per liter, pCi/L, or higher. Radon levels less than 4 pCi/L still pose a risk, and in many cases may be reduced. If you smoke and your home has high radon levels, your risk of lung cancer is especially high.' http://www.epa.gov/radon/pubs/consguid.html (http://www.epa.gov/radon/pubs/consguid.html) :ping: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eONv6DTv9A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eONv6DTv9A) :ping: http://www.wpb-radon.com/radon_FAQ.html (http://www.wpb-radon.com/radon_FAQ.html)

[Jimbuna]

They tested anthrax on the tube back in the 1960s but the trains still got delayed.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1843181.stm

That thought immediately sprang to mind when I read this thread :yep:

In the eighties I was involved (in a very low key way) with tests in controlled areas of 'something or other' but never got to know exactly what it was.

[STEED]

They tested anthrax on the tube back in the 1960s but the trains still got delayed.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1843181.stm

Flu and cold viruses as well during the 1950/60's from what I remember off the radio years ago.

[Wolferz]

There's been many a nasty thing created in a little old lab in Maryland.

They're always looking for new and creative ways to bug spray an army or its supporting population.:-?:down:

There's a much better place to test these things....
It involves sand.:arrgh!:

[Wolferz]

:ping:

No kidding!:03: :hmph: My brother has a system in his PA house basement along the Greasy green banks of the Schukyll River. 'Radon is the leading cause of lung cancer for non-smokers and the second leading cause of lung cancer in the general population. The Surgeon General and EPA recommend testing for radon and reducing radon in homes that have high levels. Fix your home if your radon level is confirmed to be 4 picocuries per liter, pCi/L, or higher. Radon levels less than 4 pCi/L still pose a risk, and in many cases may be reduced. If you smoke and your home has high radon levels, your risk of lung cancer is especially high.' http://www.epa.gov/radon/pubs/consguid.html (http://www.epa.gov/radon/pubs/consguid.html) :ping: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eONv6DTv9A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eONv6DTv9A) :ping: http://www.wpb-radon.com/radon_FAQ.html (http://www.wpb-radon.com/radon_FAQ.html)


Glad I don't live near that river.:yeah:

BTW it's spelled...Schuylkill River, which rhymes with school kill. But, the locals pronounce it skookle

[vienna]

It's not just the military who puts us at risk with questionable 'tests' and 'safeguards'. In the post-WWII US, there was a great polio scare, not to be resolved until the early 1950s with the introduction of the Salk Vaccines. In the intervening period, US chemical industries (those of us old enough remember the slogan "Better Living Through Chemistry") sold various state and local governments on the idea of using various chemicals to try to "cure" the polio problem. The most insidious of those efforts was the very liberal application of DDT, an insecticide now banned in the US and many other countries due its toxicity. DDT was sprayed from trucks driving down the streets, spray the chemical into the air. Here is a newsreel of the time depicting the spraying:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uno_Bl60i40


Please note, while we may be able to attribute Aktungbby's present state to biological warfare test exposure, Neal is far too young to have been affected by the Texas DDT spraying shown in the newsreel... :D

Like Aktungbby, I was a resident of San Francisco (actually born and raised there) and was also present during the time period. Believe me, there were chemical substances with far greater effects abundant on the streets of SF during that time...


<O>

[Aktungbby]

At least, now we know what's wrong with Aktungbby.:03::O::haha:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uno_Bl60i40


[QUOTE]Please note, while we may be able to attribute Aktungbby's present state to biological warfare test exposure,
Like Aktungbby, I was a resident of San Francisco. Believe me, there were chemical substances with far greater effects abundant on the streets of SF during that time...
Precisely BBY!:yeah: I took the cure many times...:Kaleun_Party::Kaleun_Cheers:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/2e/54/64/2e54641ad9f31b6853249b343f7cd551.jpg
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFgxMTI0/z/ee0AAOSw9N1Vnzq6/$_57.JPG

[Wolferz]

You got Vikinged on Hamms:06:

Ya still need DDT to keep the po po... polio off your trail.


"Boy howdy!
That DDT stuff is great for killin skeeters and other small critters It's bound to work on the really nasty bugs we humans git.":88)
:shucks::shucks::shucks: "We're from the government and we're here to help you."

The ten scariest words you'll ever hear.:timeout:

[Oberon]

And then there's good old Thalidomide, which helped advance technology in artificial limbs and exoskeletons significantly... :dead:

[Wolferz]

And then there's good old Thalidomide, which helped advance technology in artificial limbs and exoskeletons significantly... :dead:

I'd be more worried about the mercury in your fish and chips.:huh:

[Harvs]

This happened in Australia, after testing was finished and Maralinga closed down, the Aboriginal's still walked through this area unchecked. :down:

http://www.foe.org.au/anti-nuclear/issues/oz/britbombs/guinea-pigs

[vienna]

This happened in Australia, after testing was finished and Maralinga closed down, the Aboriginal's still walked through this area unchecked. :down:

http://www.foe.org.au/anti-nuclear/issues/oz/britbombs/guinea-pigs

The US also used military troops as guinea pigs during nuclear above ground testing in the 50s and 60s. When I was in high school, I was enrolled in the ROTC unit and we were shown many of those US Army films about bomb tests. One film showed an above ground test conducted while a large group of infantry was stationed on the outer edges of the test range. After the blast had subsided, the troops were then ordered to march into the test range towards Ground Zero. Now, I may not have paid attention to very much in my other high school classes, but I did like science classes. I recalled being told and reading that areas affected by a nuclear blast remain radioactive for a very long time after the explosion and are thus a severe radiation hazard. When I asked the Regular Army officer who presented the film about the lack of wisdom in sending troops into a "hot zone" and exposing them to radiation, the class came to a sudden end. Still waiting for a definitive answer...

One of the most bizarre ideas regarding nuclear test occurred during the Operation Plumbbob tests:


The John shot on July 19, 1957 was the only test of the Air Force's Air-2 Genie missile with a nuclear warhead. It was fired from an F-89 Scorpion fighter over Yucca Flats at the NNSS. On the ground, the Air Force carried out a public relations event by having five Air Force officers and a photographer stand under ground zero of the blast, which took place at between 18,500 and 20,000 feet altitude, with the idea of demonstrating the possibility of the use of the weapon over civilian populations without ill effects. In 2012 the photographer and the last survivor of the five met in a restaurant in Dallas to reminisce. The photographer, Akira "George" Yo****ake, died in October, 2013, and the last of the six, Donald A. Luttrell, died December, 2014
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Plumbbob

I think if someone had told me to stand under a nuclear warhead blast, I'd give a pretty good impression of Travis Bickle...


<O>


EDIT:

I was not trying to sneak by a proscribed word in George's last name; the autofilter can do strange things sometimes...


<O>

[Oberon]

That's one of the (many) things that horrified me when I read about Operation Downfall, seven nuclear bombs ready for use against Japanese targets with American troops to advance approximately 48 hours after detonation. :dead:

EDIT: BTW, speaking of that Air-to-air test, here's a video of it - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlE1BdOAfVc

[ikalugin]

Well we did conduct an exercise where a force had to advance via the ground zero.

[Harvs]

You will never see the bright sparks that think this stuff up among the force.

[Betonov]

That's one of the (many) things that horrified me when I read about Operation Downfall, seven nuclear bombs ready for use against Japanese targets with American troops to advance approximately 48 hours after detonation. :dead:



Imagine if they'd go with it.
Nukes wouldn't be seen afterwards as a strong card used in diplomacy but as just an artillery tool.
Would we be less reserved in using them if that would be the case :hmmm:

[ikalugin]

Tactical nukes were considered as just extra powerfull arty by Soviets in 60s and 70s, hence why it was assumed that things like company sized strong points would be removed by tactical nukes.
Then in late 70s we got new conventional tools to get the job done, thus moving nukes to reserve means (we not only retained old stockpiles but were increasing those).

[Oberon]

ikalugin is right, tactical nuclear weapons were considered fair game in a US/USSR clash, primarily in area denial rather than an offensive manner, at least on NATOs side. Small nuclear charges would have been used on bridges and the like in order to force the Soviets to use river crossings.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_demolition_munition

Also, I believe the exercise ikalugin refers to was Joe-9, or the Totskoye nuclear exercise:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totskoye_nuclear_exercise

In other news, the nuclear age is 70 years old today!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dfK9G7UDok

[ikalugin]

For Soviets the general idea till Ogarkov reforms was to nuke first, drive over with tanks and BMPs later, in fact requirement for passing through glassed out NATO positions was driving the BMP-1 desighn.
This would competely supress the enemy defenses (firing an ATGM after veing nuked is no easy task for an infantryman), it also lead to development of newer, lighter and tank heavy formations, to increased emphasis on manuever, to avoid being nuked back.

When Ogarkov came around he pushed for an extended conventional stage of war, with improved conventional capability, as emerging technologies (new command means, PGMs ect) allowed conventional fires to approach the destructive power of their nuclear brethren.

Hence why divisions were expanded for better combined arms mixes, some covertly converted into corps to serve as arky level OMGs. Hence why we got more, much more arty into the army, got new fire technuques and other things.

[Betonov]

I once read that NATO tanks were so outnumbered by Soviet tanks that they would use nukes to level the playing field (no pun intended)

[Oberon]

I once read that NATO tanks were so outnumbered by Soviet tanks that they would use nukes to level the playing field (no pun intended)

Eyup, I couldn't say official NATO doctrine, not sure that's even declassified now, but a Soviet/NATO clash would have escalated extremely quickly, I wager that it wouldn't even have been a week before a full scale exchange took place.

[Wolferz]

The Davy Crockett tactical nuclear mortar with M-288 tactical nuke.:huh:


http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb295/Wolferz_2007/31442384_PIC28502.jpg

Someone thought this was a viable weapon system until....They discovered it couldn't launch the nuke far enough to keep the troops launching it from being killed by it.:timeout:

Friendly fire isn't

[Raptor1]

From what I can tell, NATO's doctrine through most of the Cold War called for it to retaliate to Warsaw Pact use of chemical weapons with tactical nuclear weapons (thus allowing it to stop stockpiling its own chemical weapons). I don't think NATO had any more aversion to so-called 'first use' than the Soviet Union did.

[Aktungbby]

This happened in Australia, after testing was finished and Maralinga closed down, the Aboriginal's still walked through this area unchecked. :down:

http://www.foe.org.au/anti-nuclear/issues/oz/britbombs/guinea-pigs

The Davy Crockett tactical nuclear mortar with M-288 tactical nuke.:huh:


http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb295/Wolferz_2007/31442384_PIC28502.jpg

Someone thought this was a viable weapon system until....They discovered it couldn't launch the nuke far enough to keep the troops launching it from being killed by it.:timeout:

Friendly fire isn't
Fergit aborigines and friendly fire BBY...http://rense.com/general5/blast.htm (http://rense.com/general5/blast.htm) :hmmm:

[vienna]

You will never see the bright sparks that think this stuff up among the force.

This comment brought to mind an article I read a couple of decades ago dealing with the above ground nuclear tests in the 50s and 60s. The author was a scientist who was a part of the weapons development teams and had seen a few blasts first hand. He recounted how, on one of the later blasts, a delegation of Pentagon top brass, most of them desk jockeys, arrived to view a test. The brass made a general nuisance of themselves, strutting around self-importantly, chests bursting with ribbons. The time came for the test and all the witnesses took cover. The bomb was detonated and produced the usual earth-shattering effects. The scientist turned around to look at the brass and he found them all clustered and cowering in a corner, frightened half to death...

I tend to think the brass had other ribbons that day, but they were coming out the other end... :haha:


<O>

[Wolferz]

We doan need no steenking tactical nooks.
We got MOABs. Same damage, no radiation.:up:

[Buddahaid]

Fergit aborigines and friendly fire BBY...http://rense.com/general5/blast.htm (http://rense.com/general5/blast.htm) :hmmm:


Wow! I'd never read about the possible nuke aspect of this event. Intriguing.

[Aktungbby]

Wow! I'd never read about the possible nuke aspect of this event. Intriguing.

Well there was no evidence ever of radiation sickness a la Hiroshima so it's pretty much disregarded and anything the late By Harry V. Martin, editor of the Napa Sentinel; says is absolutely to be taken with a 'grain of salt'; I read his stuff for years and he lived to the south of me about two blocks. His job was to sell his little rag of a weekly paper( it was free with donuts at the Buttercreme Bakery) and I had met the gent on numerous occasions. He was a Napa councilman as well as a feisty publisher...:nope:

[Wolferz]

Par for the course our government charts. Both then and now.

Have a new secret weapon? Test it on your own people.:nope:

[Wolferz]

If a nuke was set off in that harbor with prevailing winds blowing out to sea, it's possible that very little radiation would be detected, if anyone was actually checking for it amid the carnage. Any residual would be absorbed by the water. That or the military did an excellent job of covering it up. Anyone within @ five miles of ground zero became ground hamburger from the shockwave, unless there was something immovable in the way. Like a hill or a mountain ridge.
After that is probably when they decided that an air burst directly over the target was going to be the SOP for Hiroshima.

It's still interesting to note how quickly the Japanese capitulated when they were warned that the third one would be aimed at Tokyo.:timeout:

[Betonov]

The first bio-warfare experiment was done in the early middle ages.
The Huns wanted a sure way to destroy what's left of the Roman empire.
But they overdone, half of Europe is still full of Slavs :nope:

[Aktungbby]

If a nuke was set off in that harbor with prevailing winds blowing out to sea, it's possible that very little radiation would be detected, if anyone was actually checking for it amid the carnage. Any residual would be absorbed by the water. That or the military did an excellent job of covering it up. Anyone within @ five miles of ground zero became ground hamburger from the shockwave, unless there was something immovable in the way. :timeout:
NOPE! Good thought... but no-go; Port Chicago is a Sacramento River town, well inland from the Golden Gate, just south of Grizzly Bay/Suisun Bay and the Montezuma Slough and the prevailing winds are usually westerly blowing inland over the oil refineries of Contra Costa County...which constitute a known health hazard:: Areas around refineries are especially dangerous. Northern California’s Contra Costa County with its six refineries emitting 60 tons of benzene, 30 tons of formaldehyde and other carcinogens each year is known as “Cancer Belt.”) in their own right due to the chemical-laden down-winds. My brother certified pipe valves in one refinery and was told to falsify records!:nope: I used to wreak havoc in/on my Real Estate appraisal reports by actually mentioning 'Cancer Belt' in the 'neighborhood comments'-so much for honesty!:03: RE agents wouldn't breath a word to prospective, blissfully ignorant homebuyers?!!!. I sail out of Vallejo (to the west) or work all around this area-actually guarding the oil spills occasionally during massive cleanups to keep it out of the Sacramento River and Bay... and know it well-enough not to eat any fish caught there! I lived in Suisun (just north Across the river-right next to Travis Air Base) before moving to Napa. "Go west young MAN...and B upwind of that crap... :O: http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g32243-d734958-Reviews-Port_Chicago_Naval_Magazine_National_Memorial-Concord_California.html#MAPVIEW (http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g32243-d734958-Reviews-Port_Chicago_Naval_Magazine_National_Memorial-Concord_California.html#MAPVIEW)

[Wolferz]

Thanks for the geography lesson.:up::D

Still, it's possible that whatever was detonated there was low yield. Just to see if the engineering was sound.

[Aktungbby]

The first bio-warfare experiment was done in the early middle ages.
The Huns wanted a sure way to destroy what's left of the Roman empire.
But they overdone, half of Europe is still full of Slavs :nope:

Can't find any thing on the Huns per se but they might have dipped their arrows in dog feces...everyone did that. The real first case is the Mongols in 1346 in Ukraine at the siege of Caffa "...is a memoir by the Italian Gabriele de’ Mussi. This narrative contains some startling assertions: that the Mongol army hurled plague-infected cadavers into the besieged Crimean city of Caffa, thereby transmitting the disease to the inhabitants; and that fleeing survivors of the siege spread plague from Caffa to the Mediterranean Basin. If this account is correct, Caffa should be recognized as the site of the most spectacular incident of biological warfare ever, with the Black Death as its disastrous consequence." Survivors fleeing the Mongol/Silk Road invasions carried the plague into the Mediterranean basin with disastrous results to history. The so-called second pandemic of bubonic plague(Europe) was active in Europe from AD 1347, the beginning of the Black Death, until 1750. Required reading: http://www.forbes.com/sites/stratfor/2014/10/27/evaluating-ebola-as-a-biological-weapon/ (http://www.forbes.com/sites/stratfor/2014/10/27/evaluating-ebola-as-a-biological-weapon/) Ebola and terrorism are not new. Nor is the possibility of terrorist groups using the Ebola virus in an attack. Previously noted: the Japanese cult Aum Shinrikyo attempted to obtain the Ebola virus (https://www.stratfor.com/node/154114) as part of its biological warfare program. The group sent a medical team to Africa under the pretext of being aid workers with the intent of obtaining samples of the virus. It failed in that mission. ISIS won't. :shifty:

[Wolferz]

Cya. puduplaza. Is that where Jabba the Hutt goes to relieve his bowels?

More ad money in Neal's pocket?