View Full Version : Panzer V Panther taken from old mans cellar
No, I'm not taking drugs.
Yes, yes it is real.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-33381772
He had a Flak 88 down there too, and a torpedo. :o Kept in bloody good condition too, shame it was violating a national law, but hopefully they'll find good homes in a museum. :yep:
Nippelspanner
07-03-15, 02:05 PM
"Verdammt, zey found our stockpiles, ze new Blitzkrieg has to be postponed, ja!"
That's what you get with Obama. Government taking away people's guns.
:nope:
Invasion of Greece cancelled until further notice. :O:
Schroeder
07-03-15, 02:33 PM
If the weapons are not functional as his lawyer said then he didn't break any law as far as I know. So how comes they are removing that stuff without even knowing whether it's still functional?:hmm2:
Last time I checked people are innocent until proven guilty and confiscating that stuff without proof seems really odd to me.:hmmm:
What if it's not functional? Are they going to put everything back in place the same way they dragged it out and say sorry? Couldn't they find someone to check that on site? That's all really bizarre to me.:-?
Invasion of Greece cancelled until further notice. :O:
Well, that guy owned more tanks than the dutch army... maybe he wanted to go West.:D
Nippelspanner
07-03-15, 02:40 PM
Well, that guy owned more tanks than the dutch army... maybe he wanted to go West.:D
True, since going east didn't work out so well...
Well, that guy owned more tanks than the dutch army... maybe he wanted to go West.:D
Nah..More sunshine in Greece. :sunny: :03:
I love german WWII equipment, so this is a great found!
Kitty! :rock:
Invasion of Greece cancelled until further notice. :O:
Nah, just postponed. :O:
Have tried to find it on the internet, without any luck, maybe because it was in the middle or the end of the 80's.
The Swedish police found in a cellar, the wall filled with machine guns from all over the world. This person not known to the police had collected famouse weapons from China, Japan, USA, England etc.
He was arrested. that's all I can remember.
Markus
Stealhead
07-03-15, 08:46 PM
Have tried to find it on the internet, without any luck, maybe because it was in the middle or the end of the 80's.
The Swedish police found in a cellar, the wall filled with machine guns from all over the world. This person not known to the police had collected famouse weapons from China, Japan, USA, England etc.
He was arrested. that's all I can remember.
Markus
How'd they know though? Bet you he made his girlfriend angry and she dimed on him.
I often wonder how many German and Japanese small arms got smuggled into the US during WWII? I know that it became such an issue that by 1944 they started running x-rays on certain size parcels of mail sent back. But that just catches the dumb ones. I'd simply strip the STG.44 or MG42 into its small components then send the different bits to different people. "Keep this barrel shroud Nana". Where there is a will there is a way.
Jimbuna
07-04-15, 06:51 AM
Saw this yesterday on another forum I frequent and at least one of the members has similar items stored away :)
Stealhead
07-04-15, 03:59 PM
Here's a story about an STG 44 turned in by a lady in Hartford, Conn.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2245749/Officers-stunned-woman-drops-40-000-WWII-German-rifle-destroyed-police-buy-program.html
em2nought
07-05-15, 01:52 AM
Invasion of Greece cancelled until further notice. :O:
A couple of divisions of Fallschirmjaeger tourists would do wonders for their economy. :D
Commander Wallace
08-14-15, 07:47 AM
Saw this yesterday on another forum I frequent and at least one of the members has similar items stored away :)
No doubt in case war with the next door neighbor breaks out over the dog barking at 2 in the morning :O:
Commander Wallace
08-14-15, 07:50 AM
No, I'm not taking drugs.
Yes, yes it is real.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-33381772
He had a Flak 88 down there too, and a torpedo. :o Kept in bloody good condition too, shame it was violating a national law, but hopefully they'll find good homes in a museum. :yep:
Maybe he should just declare his home a museum. It could work :hmm2:
Or give it to me, I'd look after it. :yeah: Especially if it's an Ausf. G, my favourite variant of my favourite German tank. :yep:
EDIT: Apparently it was a Panther built under British directions after the war, so it's a G.
G for Gib...to me...now...
Have any of our German forum members heard an update to the story? Was what his lawyer claimed about the weapons being deactivated true? Will he be getting his tank back?
Personally I would be inconsolable if "da Man" confiscated my tank!
Commander Wallace
08-14-15, 03:52 PM
Or give it to me, I'd look after it. :yeah: Especially if it's an Ausf. G, my favourite variant of my favourite German tank. :yep:
EDIT: Apparently it was a Panther built under British directions after the war, so it's a G.
G for Gib...to me...now...
Too bad it wasn't a Tiger Tank. That would wake the neighbors up. :D
Schroeder
08-14-15, 03:56 PM
Have any of our German forum members heard an update to the story? Was what his lawyer claimed about the weapons being deactivated true? Will he be getting his tank back?
Personally I would be inconsolable if "da Man" confiscated my tank!
I believe that everything remains confiscated as all the items were declared "weapons of war" and therefore illegal for civilians. Haven't heard anything else about it.
I believe that everything remains confiscated as all the items were declared "weapons of war" and therefore illegal for civilians. Haven't heard anything else about it.
It could stay that way for a while, I mean if this is going to go through the courts then it could be years before a decision is made on it. Still, hopefully in the meantime someone will fix the road wheels that got a bit bent when the Leopard was pulling it out. :/\\!!
I believe that everything remains confiscated as all the items were declared "weapons of war" and therefore illegal for civilians. Haven't heard anything else about it.
So does the owner even have some kind of legal recourse or is the governments pronouncement the final word?
Torplexed
08-14-15, 07:40 PM
Maybe they'll send him a surrogate Panther made of nice peaceful balloons.
http://ingesidee.de/dateien/grafiken/de/_german_panther_2007_luftballon_luft_kleber_balloo n_air_glou_960_x370_x_300cm-l.jpg
http://ingesidee.de/dateien/grafiken/de/_german_panther_1b-l.jpg
So does the owner even have some kind of legal recourse or is the governments pronouncement the final word?
I defer to Schroeder on the absolutes of German law, but I'd say that there are a couple of questions that the court will want answers for, such as:
1) Was the equipment seized from the basement legal, as in was it de-activated?
2) Was the Nazi memorabilia displayed in an appropriate manner (ie, is the guy a closet neo-Nazi?)
In regards to 1, I would imagine, at least for the tank the answer would be yes, unless it has had work done on it since it was in a British scrap-yard, since the tank was decommissioned sometime in the 1950s, so the British Army would have rendered it unusable as a weapon, but as with many weapons there are ways you can go around this, but it would take time, however this chap has had the tank for some time so if he wanted to, it's likely he could source the parts or have them made. Getting the ammunition for a Panther Ausf. G though...that's a bit harder, well in regards to the main gun, the co-ax and hull MG could be do-able though.
In regards to 2, that's going to rely on a careful study of the mans background, witness reports and examination of his house and the basement. I don't think that on its own being a Neo-Nazi is illegal, but it would definitely be something that would sway any courts mind in regards to returning the weaponry to its owner.
This could take a couple of years at least, but at least, since the equipment will be evidence, it's not going to be scrapped or sold on in the meantime (I hope) and if the court does decide not to award it back to the owner, then hopefully it will go to somewhere like the Deutsch Panzer Museum or the Wehrtechnische Studiensammlung who already have a Panther and so would know how to look after it, or if it won't stay in Germany I'm sure Bovington will take it in, an operational Ausf. G would go nicely next to the worlds only operational Tiger. :yep:
Would be better if it stayed in Germany though, and only fair. :yep:
Platapus
08-14-15, 10:54 PM
Ok time for someone to fess up.
Who is the Subsim member who has a Type VIIb in their bathtub?
Schroeder
08-15-15, 04:56 AM
So does the owner even have some kind of legal recourse or is the governments pronouncement the final word?
A judge will, not the government. If the weapons are considered weapons of war they will be seized. Sometimes it goes so far that a rusty expended Panzerfaust tube will be seized as a "weapon of war"....:/\\!!
I don't know the exact definition of what is legal to have and what not (many hunters own WWII Mauser K98 rifles legally) but sometimes it gets ridiculous.
2) Was the Nazi memorabilia displayed in an appropriate manner (ie, is the guy a closet neo-Nazi?)
As long as it was in his private rooms he can have that stuff arranged as an Altar and worship Hitler on it. As long as it isn't publicly displayed it has no effect on the case.
it's not going to be scrapped or sold on in the meantime (I hope) and if the court does decide not to award it back to the owner, then hopefully it will go to somewhere like the Deutsch Panzer Museum or the Wehrtechnische Studiensammlung who already have a Panther and so would know how to look after it, or if it won't stay in Germany I'm sure Bovington will take it in, an operational Ausf. G would go nicely next to the worlds only operational Tiger. :yep:
Would be better if it stayed in Germany though, and only fair. :yep:Knowing how we handle WWII relics here I wouldn't be surprised to see all that stuff being carted to the next steel mill once a court has ruled it illegal.:shifty:
Knowing how we handle WWII relics here I wouldn't be surprised to see all that stuff being carted to the next steel mill once a court has ruled it illegal.:shifty:
I dunno, I'm sure the Bundeswehr could find a use for it, especially the firearms, even de-activated they would be better than broom handles (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/german-army-paints-broomsticks-black-to-resemble-machine-guns-in-nato-exercises-10054468.html).
Schroeder
08-15-15, 09:44 AM
I dunno, I'm sure the Bundeswehr could find a use for it, especially the firearms, even de-activated they would be better than broom handles (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/german-army-paints-broomsticks-black-to-resemble-machine-guns-in-nato-exercises-10054468.html).
Funny, I've never heard of that incident before. Sounds like a mountain out of a molehill thing. During my time there was never a shortage of weapons as every soldier has had his personal rifle and every unit has had it's compliment of additional weapons like MGs, submachine guns, pistols etc. To say that Boxer was lacking a barrel for it's weapon because non were available sounds stupid to me as weapons aren't purchased without barrels. My guess is they forgot to pack it before the trip (which is embarrassing enough).
Betonov
08-15-15, 09:48 AM
He should install a cardan joint on it and register it as a tractor.
Funny, I've never heard of that incident before. Sounds like a mountain out of a molehill thing. During my time there was never a shortage of weapons as every soldier has had his personal rifle and every unit has had it's compliment of additional weapons like MGs, submachine guns, pistols etc. To say that Boxer was lacking a barrel for it's weapon because non were available sounds stupid to me as weapons aren't purchased without barrels. My guess is they forgot to pack it before the trip (which is embarrassing enough).
I'm surprised it hasn't happened already over here, to be honest. Although, in a way it did happen back during the war, post Dunkirk, when ammunition for our artillery was so low that gunnery practice consisted of lining up the artillery piece and shouting 'BANG!'... (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spike_Milligan#Second_World_War) :doh:
He should install a cardan joint on it and register it as a tractor.
It worked for the Russians... :haha:
Admiral Halsey
08-15-15, 01:45 PM
Ok time for someone to fess up.
Who is the Subsim member who has a Type VIIb in their bathtub?
For your information it's a Type XXI not a VIIb thank you very much.
Knowing how we handle WWII relics here I wouldn't be surprised to see all that stuff being carted to the next steel mill once a court has ruled it illegal.:shifty:
That would be just horrible.
sturmer
08-17-15, 06:20 AM
I defer to Schroeder on the absolutes of German law, but I'd say that there are a couple of questions that the court will want answers for, such as:
1) Was the equipment seized from the basement legal, as in was it de-activated?
:yep:
as for 1) the tank could only drive, the gun barrel had a hole in it. thats what i have read from an article. the owner drove the tank during some winters in the 70-80's.
everybody in town new about his collection and never bothered. so how did someone found out and why report it after all these years?
HunterICX
08-17-15, 06:43 AM
everybody in town new about his collection and never bothered. so how did someone found out and why report it after all these years?
Well, I heard that there's been quite a witch hunt for Nazi relics and art lately in Germany. Didn't they found those two bronze horses from the sculptor Thorak recently? So I guess whoever reported the old guy with his tank must've caught on that.
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