The Things We Do For Realism

[Kaptlt.Endrass]

We all tend to have our own ideas of what makes Silent Hunter III 'realistic', all falling short of actually building a time machine and going back to join the Kriegsmarine in 1938.

For some of us, that includes making mods for the community (shout out to you guys for your time and effort, especially the boys over at GWX and NYGM :salute:)

For me, a 'hardcore' captain by the results of the quiz nearly everyone has taken, that includes cranking up the realism, leaving nothing but the map contacts (c'mon, the captain would get constant updates anyway), external and ships cameras on (for the eye candy), using the crew transfer feature provided in SH3 Commander as well as the sabotage/malfunction possibility, and putting in numerous mods along with GWX such as the no uniforms, lifeboat&debris, Q-ships, and more (Also, isn't there one where you have to keep an eye on food/water supply as well?)

So, that said, what do you chaps do for realism?

[Sailor Steve]

I go to my assigned grid and I stay there. If I haven't seen an enemy ship after one week on station I roll a 6-sided die. On a roll of 6 BdU has okayed my request to move to another grid. I then roll again to get the direction of the move and roll a third time: 1-3 means I move one square in that direction, 4-6 it's two squares. If the initial roll was anything other than 6 I spend another week in that grid, and roll again. This time I can move on a 5-6. After another week it's 4-6.

This is of course at the beginning of the war. When I get some tonnage under my belt I'll allow myself more leeway. Of course this means I occasionally have an empty patrol. I've been playing subsims for almost thirty years. I can live with that.

[bstanko6]

I sit in a bath tub but do not wash for three months!

[maillemaker]

If you turn off map contacts, it really changes the game. You will find that instead of playing the game from the map screen, you will start playing it from the bridge or the periscope. Additionally, you will develop a much keener sense of angular perception relative to your boat. Unless you have time to ID ships and do a good fixed-wire speed check, you will also find yourself guessing at speeds a lot more.

I think these qualities were paramount in real uboat commanders' minds.

Everyone should try at least a patrol with no map contacts.

Steve

[bstanko6]

Mail maker, do you mean map contacts on the attack map? I use radio contacts on the nav map. That's it. I use weapons officer for id for merchant fleet mod.

[ExFishermanBob]

If you turn off map contacts, it really changes the game. You will find that instead of playing the game from the map screen, you will start playing it from the bridge or the periscope. Additionally, you will develop a much keener sense of angular perception relative to your boat. Unless you have time to ID ships and do a good fixed-wire speed check, you will also find yourself guessing at speeds a lot more.

I think these qualities were paramount in real uboat commanders' minds.

Everyone should try at least a patrol with no map contacts.

Steve

Absolutely - the first time I played at 100% I was genuinely scared! It's a totally different game and kept me off the map-screen.

[Fahnenbohn]

If you turn off map contacts, it really changes the game. You will find that instead of playing the game from the map screen, you will start playing it from the bridge or the periscope. Additionally, you will develop a much keener sense of angular perception relative to your boat. Unless you have time to ID ships and do a good fixed-wire speed check, you will also find yourself guessing at speeds a lot more.

I think these qualities were paramount in real uboat commanders' minds.

Everyone should try at least a patrol with no map contacts.

Steve

Yes, it is a very good idea, i should try that. But first i have to learn how to calculate a torpedo course ! :timeout:

[Sailor Steve]

If you turn off map contacts, it really changes the game.
I use Observer's Assisted Plotting Mod. You leave Map Contacts turned on, but nothing appears on the screen unless you pass the cursor over it, then it only shows up as "Unknown". Once the ship is identified you can click on it and it will show up correctly.

I suck at math, so I use WE Assistance to do the plotting for me. I used to feel guilty about this, but now with H.sie's mod he sometimes gets it wrong and always gives general rather than specific numbers.

I also use H.sie's Hull Integrity mod, which gives generalities as well. It's color-coded to give a rough idea of how well the pressure hull is doing, but nothing specific.

[UKönig]

I go to my assigned grid and I stay there. If I haven't seen an enemy ship after one week on station I roll a 6-sided die. On a roll of 6 BdU has okayed my request to move to another grid. I then roll again to get the direction of the move and roll a third time: 1-3 means I move one square in that direction, 4-6 it's two squares. If the initial roll was anything other than 6 I spend another week in that grid, and roll again. This time I can move on a 5-6. After another week it's 4-6.

This is of course at the beginning of the war. When I get some tonnage under my belt I'll allow myself more leeway. Of course this means I occasionally have an empty patrol. I've been playing subsims for almost thirty years. I can live with that.

That sounds like something to try. I have a bag of dice left over from my RPG days, so I have multiple ways of making random rolls. That said, I usually just go rogue. Shut the radio off, so to speak, and do whatever I feel like. I leave unlimited fuel on (I want fun and running out of gas is not), and then I can lay in a course to wherever. Maybe I sink a lot of lone merchants along the way, maybe I find a convoy (or two), maybe I raid a harbour. If I didn't use the exterior cams, though, then there is *no* way I would attempt a harbour raid. I use ext view to avoid mines and nets, I wouldn't even think of it otherwise. I will come back with my tonnage and/or aircraft kills and report the business at that time. Or I will not come back at all, and the Kriegsmarine/BdU will be spared the embarrassment of my failure, so, no harm there. I hate how much I love this game.

[bstanko6]

To be honest, I love earning medals in games. Call that the old high score pac man days where I love to see my progress. So I have been collecting some of the medals we can earn in the game so I can have a physical tangible item to be proud of. These are very good replicas but the uboat war badge is actually authentic! I love this piece. I even have the wound badge. I place them in the display case as I earn them. That's my realism.

P. S. The front clasp is on the way!

[UKönig]

Very nice! I am jelly...

[Kip Chiakopf]

If you turn off map contacts, it really changes the game. You will find that instead of playing the game from the map screen, you will start playing it from the bridge or the periscope. Additionally, you will develop a much keener sense of angular perception relative to your boat. Unless you have time to ID ships and do a good fixed-wire speed check, you will also find yourself guessing at speeds a lot more.

I think these qualities were paramount in real uboat commanders' minds.

Everyone should try at least a patrol with no map contacts.

Steve

I'm going to try that on my next patrol.

[Kaptlt.Endrass]

I'm going to try one helluva a challenge this next time around. With a few exceptions as needed, I will do an entire patrol with all of the HUD turned off. I can Understand my German well enough to get by with it on, but I think it will make the game as realistic as possible. I'm switching on all of those boxes for realism, and am expecting to come back from this empty-handed, as it is still early in the war. I will post regular updates.

Instances for using the HUD: Turn on for those silent reports, such as the watch officer's ' Range to Nearest Contact', and the Navigator's different reports. Turn 'em off when I'm done.

[Niedowidek]

I use no map contacts update. I even erased my sub marker from map (Hide my sub mod) and later manually erased marker of sunk ship (as this revealed my position too). I navigate using tools avalaible in SH, drawing lines and circles, with TC 4 to 16, adjusting course from time to time. When night sky is clear I click right mouse button on map to check my position because I think my navigator should be able to fix boat's position using stars. I saw that someone wrote lately about using the same method.

I write patrol log, similarly to the ones published in forum by Sailor Steve (kudos!). Well, mine are quite boring most of the time. "AN2646 | Wind X m/s NW. Course XXX. Speed Y." and so on ;-)

I have decided on Hitman's GUI. While it has no targeting circle around scope present in OLC's GUI/MaGUI, the description provided by Hitman and the fact IIRC that he studied real optics preserved in museums as well as his brief historical info on targeting made by real kaleuns, have convinced me to use it.

I use external camera to check my torpedoes' trails as I'm still learning to target manually. But I don't use ext camera to gather any information that kaleun should not have. I don't use it to plot my fire solution, nor to look at depth charging destroyers. Camera helps a lot in learning e.g. I see that my eel went a bit behind the stern or right under keel but didn't exploded, and I may correct my targeting next time.

[Sjizzle]

i play with no map contacts and also with Real navigation this (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=113975&highlight=Real+Navigation) one that's the true fun of playing sh3 :D no map contact no way points plotting tools using only the protractor to see which heading i must go :D and all is set to realism 100%

[maillemaker]

Mail maker, do you mean map contacts on the attack map? I use radio contacts on the nav map. That's it. I use weapons officer for id for merchant fleet mod.

I have map contacts turned off. This means you don't see any ships in visual/sonar range on any map. I don't remember if you get radio contacts or not. I think so.

Yes, it is a very good idea, i should try that. But first i have to learn how to calculate a torpedo course !

Manual TDC is very easy if you make 90 degree shots, which is all I do. I don't even know how to make shots at other angles.

If you approach your target at 90 degrees to its course, here is what you do:

1) Point your scope/uzo at 0 degree heading.
2) Turn on the TDC and dial in the target speed. In SH3 if you can't do a fixed-wire method of timing the ship movement stem to stern and using this against the known ship length, just plug in 7 knots. In SH3 most ships are traveling beetween 5-9 knots. If you fire from within 1000 meters you'll probably get a hit anyway.
3) If your sub is 90 degrees to the right of the target's course, set the AoB to 90 degrees starboard. If your sub is 90 degrees to the left of the target's course, set the AoB to 90 degrees port.
4) Turn the TDC off.
5) Move the scope to the left or right until the Gyro Angle reads 0. You should be turning the periscope towards your target. In other words, if the target is approaching your nose from the left, you should have to turn your scope to the left to get to zero gyro. If this is happening backwards, you have your AoB set to the wrong direction.
6) Open your torpedo outer doors.
7) As the target crosses your vertical reticule, fire torpedo(s) at the points on the target you want to hit. When in doubt of target speed, fire at dead-center to increase your chances of a hit without missing ahead of or behind the target.

Range does not matter when firing using this method. The longer range you try to fire, the more important an accurate target speed measurement is.

This may sound tricky but in practice you can dial in the TDC in about 3 seconds. You just dial the speed and then set the AoB 90 degrees left or right. Turn the scope to 0 gyro and wait for the targets to cross your line of death.

With no map contacts, you will have to eyeball your target and plot an intercept "by eye". In SH3 there is a "heading to view" command (= key, I believe) that says, "Drive the sub thattaway!". You will use that a lot. You eyeball the ship from the bridge (or scope), and then turn your head (or scope) in an approximate intercept and say, "Go thattaway!". No more carefully drawing lines on your map that precisely set up a 90 degree set of tracks.


The one thing that holds no interest to me at all is manual navigation. I have no desire to manually navigate the boat. In fact I don't want to be bothered about the sub operation/navigation until the lookouts or sonar spot a contact. I'm just here for the combat and escape/evasion.

And the medals. The sweet, sweet medals. :)

Steve

[Sailor Steve]

Nice description on the TDC. I'm just the opposite. I've had my share of shoot-em-ups and I'm in it because I miss the sea. Real navigation is something I'll be picking up soon.

[bstanko6]

Mailmaker, have u tried maGUI F? It gives you speed lines on your stop watch just for fixed wire speed estimates. You just have to be moving slow(2knots). Works for me. That method you just described, I use for a convoy I'm about to attack. Great for getting out multiple eels in a short time.

[neural]

Manual TDC is very easy if you can get close enough. The measurement errors stay small when you're firing from 500m. I rarely miss when attacking unescorted merchants.

[thomas cook]

If you turn off map contacts, it really changes the game. You will find that instead of playing the game from the map screen, you will start playing it from the bridge or the periscope. Additionally, you will develop a much keener sense of angular perception relative to your boat. Unless you have time to ID ships and do a good fixed-wire speed check, you will also find yourself guessing at speeds a lot more.

I think these qualities were paramount in real uboat commanders' minds.

Everyone should try at least a patrol with no map contacts.

Steve

I originally started playing Silent Hunter 5 with the intent to have it as real as possible. Two things caused me to lower the realism under 100%.

1) Manual targeting was not even possible since I was unable to calculate distance to target properly using stadometer, which was broken at the time, or binoculars. I allowed map contacts so that I could measure distances, and it worked perfectly. Perhaps too perfectly though. I felt myself longing for that fog to mean something. Struggling to make visual contact through weather conditions, or manually spotting a target is terribly missed. An immersive factor that I sacrificed to measure distances.

2) External view was something that I could not bear to give up. Having committed to all this hardware so that I could meet the latest graphical demands, it just wouldn't make sense, if you're not going to enjoy all that eye candy Silent Hunter 5 offers. And so I allowed external views, promising myself that I'd only use it asthetically, during uneventful patrol periods, but not tactically, to spot targets and identify course, or true bearing. I broke my promise pretty early on, and again, I paid the price with an immersion breaker. Attacks were too easy even on hardest settings. It just wasn't challenging enough.

So to sum that up.
"Allow external view" and "allow map contact updates", were the two reasons I lowered my realism settings, taking it off of 100% realism, to 82% or something like that.

So now I've returned after a fair while and there have been updates to several mods. I noted Sobers mega mod and figured that's my best bet. With all these mods, is it possible for me to go 100%? Does stadimeter work and uzo work for measuring distance with Sobers mod list?


I think it's time now.

Training rudders are comming off, as soon as I get the last of Sobers list.

:)

[Kip336]

What I do for realism?
As a seasoned Dutchman I am expected to have enough knowledge of the German language to hold a conversation.

So I practiced (I'm bad at languages, aside from English) and I'm now able to hold a basic conversation about targets, escorts, T DC and ship control.
I even have them out loud, but that generally turns into a one sided conversation,as my officers don't say much.

Wife thinks it's hilarious.

[neural]

Agreed, turning off map contacts really elevates the game.

But in the end it is only a game (or simulation), and is supposed to be fun, or at least exciting. Realism is not a goal in itself, but rather an end to a means.

[Leitender]

If you turn off map contacts, it really changes the game. You will find that instead of playing the game from the map screen, you will start playing it from the bridge or the periscope. Additionally, you will develop a much keener sense of angular perception relative to your boat. Unless you have time to ID ships and do a good fixed-wire speed check, you will also find yourself guessing at speeds a lot more.

I think these qualities were paramount in real uboat commanders' minds.

Everyone should try at least a patrol with no map contacts.

Steve

Really good observation, I can confirm this experience completely. 2 more (realism) annotations:

1. Play with no reloading of the game. Dead is dead, the so called "iron man" modus. Apart from CTD´s because of my modsoup, I´m always aware that my carreer, my life and that of my whole crew could be ended immediately, when I make the wrong decision. A sudden attack out of the clouds now gets a shocking experience. This leads to a completely different behaviour: I try to anticipate the risks of every single decision - and, normally, I act very carefully - in opposite to what I did in single or in testing missions.

2. Set the time compression as slow as possible. The maximum is TC=32 due to some simulations not being executed with higer TC. With this, you will get a slight impression of the huge ocean in which you´re operating. When it takes several RT hours to reach the american coast, you will never, never waste again a torpedo on a sailor or a fish cutter. Beyond, you will monitor your attack manouevre, your torpedo settings and of course your TDC settings again and again. You will never ever forget to open the torpedo tube. And it becomes a real pain to see a premature explosion when you´ve spent so much time to follow and intercept this ****ing huge tanker.

[Niedowidek]

Leitender, I agree completely with your second point :)
I play mostly 4x, 8x or 16x TC :) I do some laundry, ironing, cleaning, wash dishes, eat breakfast and read in the meantime :D

I'd like to ask for stadimeter. I believe I've read somewhere in this forum that historically German u-boats weren't equipped with stadimeter. Is it right? I ask because several players mention using it and IIRC even SH5 megamod Wolves of Steel has it by default.

[sublynx]

I'd like to ask for stadimeter. I believe I've read somewhere in this forum that historically German u-boats weren't equipped with stadimeter. Is it right? I ask because several players mention using it and IIRC even SH5 megamod Wolves of Steel has it by default.

Hitman GUI has an excellent document on U-boat optics and targeting procedures. No stadimeter.

Back to the thread subject:

Every time I leave a port, I check what U-boat actually left the same port during the war. I then try to follow the orders that were actually given to the boat. That how I've once followed orders that forced me to "mine" Bristol Channel. Other patrols I've received orders to drop saboteur teams to North African Coast, and the east coast of the United States.

Uboatnet and BdU KTB's are a great help, as is the war diary of the Mediterranean U-boat commander:

https://archive.org/details/wardiaryofcapta194142germ

[bstanko6]

1. Dead is dead rule

2. Always use 4 digit grid and update SH3 commander logs accordingly ( Thanks Tycho).

3. Always scan surface at periscope depth before surfacing.

4. Closely inspect all neutral shipping, and sink all ships with military hardware on deck (Thanks SailorSteve for teaching us how to change value of neutral ships to not get a negative renown).

5. Never use map contacts!

6. Truth is, I have never used external camera except maybe twice in a multiplayer game. I would never use it... Not even if there was a fire!

[BigWalleye]

1. Dead is dead rule

2. Always use 4 digit grid and update SH3 commander logs accordingly ( Thanks Tycho).

3. Always scan surface at periscope depth before surfacing.

4. Closely inspect all neutral shipping, and sink all ships with military hardware on deck (Thanks SailorSteve for teaching us how to change value of neutral ships to not get a negative renown).

5. Never use map contacts!

6. Truth is, I have never used external camera except maybe twice in a multiplayer game. I would never use it... Not even if there was a fire!

I second every point.

I also use voice command (SH3Speech) and a pop-up HUD. I don't use mouse-clicks or keyboard shortcuts. I give verbal orders, my crew acknowledges (von Deutsch of course) and passes the order down the chain, then executes the order. Most of the time, the screen shows just a view of the inside of the boat, or of the conning tower - no dials or button bars. When I want to know our depth, I look over the planesman's shoulder. Immersive for me. YMMV.

[Nemo66]

Running surfaced in heavy seas at the bridge, i always keep my breath as long as the boat is sucked underwater by the waves !

[ninja turtle]

Every time I leave a port, I check what U-boat actually left the same port during the war. I then try to follow the orders that were actually given to the boat. That how I've once followed orders that forced me to "mine" Bristol Channel. Other patrols I've received orders to drop saboteur teams to North African Coast, and the east coast of the United States.

Uboatnet and BdU KTB's are a great help, as is the war diary of the Mediterranean U-boat commander:

https://archive.org/details/wardiaryofcapta194142germ

I do something similar to this. I look up certain U-Boat numbers with a particular Kaleun using uboat.net and follow their patrols as near as possible: dates, grids, patrol and leave days etc. So far I've used U-2 with Helmut Rosenbaum, U-505 with Herbert Nollau, U-534 with Axel-Olaf Loewe and U-23 (Black Sea) with Rolf-Birger Wahlen. With the assistance of SH3 Commander the emblems, number and crew names can all be added.

1. Fatigue is unchecked.
2. Dead is dead.
3. I do have external view (for eye candy but not used as a cheat).
4. Map contacts are on (but used sparingly as members of the crew would constantly update information).
5. Sabotage and malfunctions are added if later in the war.
6. Always scan with periscope before surfacing.
7. My patrol logs in SH3 Cmdr are as detailed as I can make it; weather reports: sea and wind states etc.

Can anyone tell me how to have pop up/slide HUD in SH3?
Also I would love to try voice recognition.

:subsim:

[UKönig]

Running surfaced in heavy seas at the bridge, i always keep my breath as long as the boat is sucked underwater by the waves !

Mich Auch!

If the captain (me) is on the bridge (F4) in bad weather, and the waves break over, I hold my breath until the wave passes, as if I had to.

[ninja turtle]

a) Why dont you post them? Just open a thread like "Patrol Logs of U-xxxx" and publish them to give a good example. Not only I would love to see them!

Unfortunately at the moment I just don't have the time to type it all up. For me it's just a bit of a hobby and historical interest. I'll leave it to Sailor Steve in his The Old Sailor's New Patrol Logs as mine are an almost identical format.

If there's a keen interest I might start writing them up in the future?

:subsim:

[Sailor Steve]

Everybody's adventures are different, and therefore interesting. Whether it's a simple log like mine or a full-blown novel, I'd love to see them.