Has your crew ever gotten flooding under control? [Archive]

maillemaker

05-31-15, 12:05 AM

vdr1981

05-31-15, 01:50 AM

kevinsue

05-31-15, 01:51 AM

I don't think I've ever seen my crew get flooding under control. Even when you tell the Chief to increase flooding repair time. Compartments just fill and fill and fill and then you die. I've also tried closing hatches; I guess that has no effect on anything.

Is damage control pretty much a waste of time?

I'm using Wolves of Steel mod.

Steve

Depends on how damaged your boat is and whether the crew are injured etc. If the pressure hull, main pump and compressors are badly damaged, it's much harder to get flooding under control. I've had instances where I thought everything was hopeless but managed to get to the surface using flank speed to stay afloat and to my surprise, the crew eventually got the flooding under control. :yep:

MCM

05-31-15, 04:38 AM

I think to get heavy flooding under control your only way is to surface. If you stay under water you have no chance. You have to surface no matter what. But most of the time even this is not possible anymore...

maillemaker

05-31-15, 10:06 AM

Well, the one time I sank in 36 meters of water we hit the bottom from the surface. I could not keep the boat on the surface. Blew 100% of compressed air and tried full power in reverse and could not get off the bottom.

Last time I had the entire British navy overhead and could not surface. We sat on the bottom in 89 meters of water and flooded.

maillemaker

05-31-15, 10:13 AM

So back to my question - is there any real user input for damage control that changes the outcome? Or is it all automated?

It doesn't seem to me like there is anything I can really do to affect the outcome. In SH3 it mattered how many crew you put in damage control and how skilled they were at the repair skill. And it mattered which compartment you told them to focus on.

In SH5 it appears to me the only user input for damage control is to tell the Chief to focus on repairs or flooding. And I don't see this having any effect on the outcome, either.

So in SH5 does the captain just sit back and watch the water rise?

sshellokitty

05-31-15, 11:38 AM

Maybe Vecko or someone else can confirm this, but if you have the crew at battle stations or silent running then they will not try to repair things. Or maybe it is just one or the other i'm not sure.

The second thing is damage, if you get nailed by a direct hit then you are pretty much done. I just started a new campaign with Wolves of Steel and during Baltic Operations I was attacked on the surface by a destroyer that sneaked up on me while I was busy trying to deck gun a merchant. I had to crash dive but luckily her shells only landed near my boat. Two members were injured and the boat was slightly damaged and I had 3 - 6% flooding in 3 compartment. The crew got the flooding under control and got it all pumped out while I was submerged. So they definitely work. :salute:

maillemaker

05-31-15, 01:28 PM

OK, can someone tell me if I should prioritize fixing of different things in a compartment to manage flooding?

Should I tell the men to fix the room itself or the pressure hull or does it make any difference what they are working on?

Is it true that if the men are at battle stations it stops damage control? Because I went to battle stations thinking it would help.

I just re-loaded the previous scenario and got one depth charge hit. The engine room flooded to 100% but they got the room behind it under control.

I notice constantly that the message text will say "Flooding under control!" followed immediately by "We have flooding!"

Why is that? Why are they reporting flooding under control and then flooding again?

Does time compression hurt damage control? I got tired of sitting there watching the flooding slowly eat the ship so I went to TC and above about 4 suddenly officers start getting injured even though we were not on the bottom and we were no longer getting depth charged. I hope I don't have to sit at TC 1 waiting for everything to get fixed.

Steve

Mikemike47

05-31-15, 03:02 PM

I notice constantly that the message text will say "Flooding under control!" followed immediately by "We have flooding!"

Why is that? Why are they reporting flooding under control and then flooding again?
We have flooding, flooding under control fix (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=4474)

maillemaker

05-31-15, 06:07 PM

That fix is part of the Wolves of Steel modpack.

Steve

mobucks

05-31-15, 06:32 PM

I would work on your evasion and stealth. Damage control works just fine for me, I don't even click anything, it all happens automatically. I would guess that any available intervention on behalf of the player (more crew to damage control/flooding, clicking on subsystems to prioritize repairs) has a very narrow window of overall damage to be considered effective. Meaning, the way the mod author envisioned this damage model was to make it more realistic in that those interactions are for helping a damaged ship, but not a "magic" repair to a doomed vessel, as in the un-modded game.

In my experience certain zones are more fragile than others in the boat. You are either extremely unlucky and these areas are getting hit all the time, or you are being reckless. Or perhaps you are just testing getting damaged for a future career/campaign?

If I'm sinking by the bow, emergency reverse has brought me to the surface. The opposite applies when sinking astern. Of course none of this is possible if your engines have been knocked out.

Good luck!

uarg

05-31-15, 06:52 PM

I also think that this has no effect on the game because I go every time (even the smallest leak) below. is probably a bug or something

Good hunting

maillemaker

05-31-15, 07:22 PM

Well, it's dark and the water is too murky to see like in SH3 so I can't be certain how close the depth charge is getting to me.

But I have a save game in the middle of a fight where I just nailed a destroyer and now about 7 destroyers and 2 PT boats are vectoring in on me and nailing me in 90 meters of water. I can cruise at flank speed to a deeper spot about 150 meters deep, and on my last game reload I just went flank to get there and just about made it when they hit me.

I got all the damage under control at 145 feet deep and the escorts had given up looking for me but we could not stop the flooding.

The pressure hull of one of the compartments was at 4% and they could never fix it.

It just feels to me like I have a glass uboat.

I'm going to keep reloading this scenario to see if I can figure out the rhyme or reason to damage control.

I'm getting the impression that what kills you is not 100% flooding of a compartment as in SH3, because my compartment flooded to 100% and the game did not end. But instead in SH5 it's about pressure hull %. So maybe I should have put the damage control effort on the pressure hull to start with.

Steve

sshellokitty

05-31-15, 07:26 PM

The pressure hull of one of the compartments was at 4% and they could never fix it.

It just feels to me like I have a glass uboat.

Steve

If your hull in one spot is only at 4% then you got nailed hard and I don't see how anyone would be able to repair such significant damage. Historically U-boats were not made to take on surface war ships one on one. Stealth is your ally. One well placed shell, bomb, charge, or mine and it could be all over. Just look at the numbers of how many German submariners died during the war.

maillemaker

05-31-15, 08:18 PM

I don't think in sh3 I ever got hit by such a miracle depth charge especially this early in the war.

MCM

06-01-15, 01:54 AM

If I'm sinking by the bow, emergency reverse has brought me to the surface. The opposite applies when sinking astern.

How do you know without external view on which side the uboot is sinking?

sshellokitty

06-01-15, 02:45 AM

I don't think in sh3 I ever got hit by such a miracle depth charge especially this early in the war.

You got me there, I haven't played SH3. However from my understanding The Wolves of Steel mod pack is designed to make the game as realistic and brutal as possible to give the most accurate simulation.

sshellokitty

06-01-15, 02:48 AM

How do you know without external view on which side the uboot is sinking?

This hasn't happened to me but when you are inside of the U-boat you can visually tell when the bow of the boat is pointing down or up (same with the stern). Try standing in your control room and look directly at the port or starboard side and perform a crash dive. You will notice.

mobucks

06-01-15, 08:26 AM

That's how I do it. Also there are bubble gauges near the planesmen you can see your exact angle.

I made that last reply and booted up the game. I was greeted with the perfect loading screen blurb as my save loaded:

"A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it." Albert Einstein.

kevinsue

06-01-15, 08:45 AM

mobucks

06-01-15, 08:49 AM

Not at all! I fall down, I get up, no problem!

Edit: Just to add, saving and reloading mid-action is not recommended in this game. Weird things can happen. Also loading auto-saves is not recommended ever.

I also think the purpose of the damage mod needs to be clarified a bit here. Since SH3 people wanted to get rid of that unrealistic "health bar" mechanic of having a Hull % that goes to a game over screen when it hits 0%. The changes made by the mod allow you to feel like you at least have a fighting chance, whether you actually do or you don't, that isn't interrupted by a game over screen. So you can be destroyed sitting on the bottom in 40m of sea and not get a game over screen.

maillemaker

06-01-15, 09:51 AM

How do you know without external view on which side the uboot is sinking?

You can tell when you are inside the boat as it develops a list.

Edit: Just to add, saving and reloading mid-action is not recommended in this game. Weird things can happen. Also loading auto-saves is not recommended ever.

I've heard that, and it was a definite problem in SH3. I have not had any problems in SH5 so far.

I also think the purpose of the damage mod needs to be clarified a bit here. Since SH3 people wanted to get rid of that unrealistic "health bar" mechanic of having a Hull % that goes to a game over screen when it hits 0%. The changes made by the mod allow you to feel like you at least have a fighting chance, whether you actually do or you don't, that isn't interrupted by a game over screen. So you can be destroyed sitting on the bottom in 40m of sea and not get a game over screen.

I've gotten the game over cinematic every time I died in SH5.

My problem here is that I'm having trouble deciphering the damage control screen to get an accurate understanding of the state of my sub. I think I have now figured out that the thing I need to focus damage control efforts on is the Pressure Hull.

The other problem I'm having is that I have not survived a depth charging yet. Now granted my first run-in here was in 90 feet of water with about 7 destroyers and 2 PT boats over my head. But even so it seems like a single depth charge does me in. Maybe I wasn't repairing the Pressure Hull though.

So far it feels like if you take a minor strafing from an aircraft you can probably repair your uboat over the next half-day or so. But if you are on the receiving end of any kind of real combat you're going down.

vdr1981

06-01-15, 10:25 AM

My problem here is that I'm having trouble deciphering the damage control screen to get an accurate understanding of the state of my sub. I think I have now figured out that the thing I need to focus damage control efforts on is the Pressure Hull.
I'm not sure how many times I have to repeat that there is no advanced damage management (aka repair priority) in SH5 like that seen in SH3 and SH4. Why? You should ask developers...

But even so it seems like a single depth charge does me in. Maybe I wasn't repairing the Pressure Hull though.

How many DC you wish to sustain? 2,3 or even more maybe? :)
Of course that one good placed DC will knock your boat out of the action, anything closer than 15m and you're done. 15m is actually a bit higher then historical DC deadly ranges because even elite destroyers with IRAI most of the time will have problems with underwater target acquisition.

Flooding amount is directly connected with pressure hull damage values of individual compartments.

maillemaker

06-02-15, 10:44 AM

I'm not sure how many times I have to repeat that there is no advanced damage management (aka repair priority) in SH5 like that seen in SH3 and SH4. Why? You should ask developers...So when I click on a damaged item and the little hammer starts beating on it I have not actually changed what is being worked on?

How many DC you wish to sustain? 2,3 or even more maybe?I'm just surprised that the boat feels so much more fragile than in SH3. In SH3 you could take repeated beatings and still repair your sub. Now for a long time in SH3 I played with no map contacts and no external view so I can't say for certain how close depth charges were to me (though sometimes I did peak with the periscope). But I know you could get damaged, and generally if you focused your attention on a compartment you could get the flooding under control.

Maybe SH5 is more realistic, I don't know. It's just shocking how much more fragile SH5 feels and how futile repairs feel.

What was the point of adding all the different equipment options on the damage control screens if you can't do anything about it? Might as well just have a big text come up that says, "$hit's broken, yo." :haha:

Flooding amount is directly connected with pressure hull damage values of individual compartments. So is it beneficial to make the little hammer beat on the pressure hull box or not? From now on I'm going to make sure that the pressure hull is the only thing being worked on. I don't need equipment working I need a boat that doesn't leak and sink to the bottom!

Steve

vdr1981

06-02-15, 01:54 PM

So is it beneficial to make the little hammer beat on the pressure hull box or not?

Unfortunately , it seems it is not...

kevinsue

06-02-15, 04:05 PM

So is it beneficial to make the little hammer beat on the pressure hull box or not?
Steve

I think the little hammer taps morse code........"I am U-571...DESTROY ME" :haha:

sshellokitty

06-03-15, 12:07 AM

I think the little hammer taps morse code........"I am U-571...DESTROY ME" :haha:

lol maybe it is. 10/10, 100/100 most realistic submarine movie in the galaxy. :O:

kevinsue

06-03-15, 04:15 AM

lol maybe it is. 10/10, 100/100 most realistic submarine movie in the galaxy. :O:

http://i57.tinypic.com/ne6e5s.jpg

Gee...it's strange how urban myths take on their own reality over time.:hmmm: Up until I stumbled onto this historical masterpiece on Youtube, I honestly believed that the first capture of a naval Enigma machine and associated cipher keys from a U-boat was allegedly made on 9 May 1941 by HMS Bulldog of Britain's Royal Navy, commanded by Captain Joe Baker-Cresswell. The U-boat was U-110. In 1942, the British supposedly seized U-559 as well, capturing additional Enigma codebooks or so they would have you believe.:o

Good thing I came across this movie and got straightened out on the true facts!:yep:

maillemaker

06-03-15, 10:29 AM

OK, last night I hit a French convoy in the Western Approaches. Took down 3 freighters and would have hit the escort behind me with the stern tube but forgot to set the depth shallow enough for the destroyer - damn thing went right under him, too!

Anyway I got nicked by a depth charge and it made the engine room pressure hull stations drop to about 86%. There are actually two compartments covered by that one sub section; I forget what they are called.

Anyway I made sure no one was at battle stations and we were not at silent running and I set the beating hammer to one of the pressure hulls.

As I watched, both of them were repaired. Also flooding started at 2% but slowly went away. My crew's morale was completely depleted so there was no help from any of the Chief's "special skills".

So it looks to me like all damage is repaired simultaneously regardless of what station has the beating hammer.

It also appears that there are some stations that cannot be repaired even if they are not destroyed. Like the stabilization tanks. I'm guessing stuff on the outside of the boat can't be repaired?

Anyway they pounded at me a while but I never got hit again and made my escape.

Steve

sshellokitty

06-03-15, 12:30 PM

It also appears that there are some stations that cannot be repaired even if they are not destroyed. Like the stabilization tanks. I'm guessing stuff on the outside of the boat can't be repaired?

Steve

Yeah stuff that is on the outside of the boat can only be repaired while you are surfaced.

maillemaker

06-03-15, 01:09 PM

They should be able to shoot Bernard out of a torpedo tube with an air hose and get him working on fixing things. :)

Steve

sshellokitty

06-03-15, 03:01 PM

They should be able to shoot Bernard out of a torpedo tube with an air hose and get him working on fixing things. :)

Steve

lmao

MCM

06-04-15, 06:40 AM

best thing to escape is to show the smallest silhouette to the destroyer. With no map contacts, how do you manage this?

vdr1981

06-04-15, 07:00 AM

best thing to escape is to show the smallest silhouette to the destroyer. With no map contacts, how do you manage this?

A million WWII Deutsche Marks question...:D

Sailor Steve

06-04-15, 08:40 AM

best thing to escape is to show the smallest silhouette to the destroyer. With no map contacts, how do you manage this?
Unless SH5 broke it, the soundman should tell you the direction every time he reports. From there it's easy to figure out.

vdr1981

06-04-15, 09:45 AM

Unless SH5 broke it, the soundman should tell you the direction every time he reports. From there it's easy to figure out.

Reported bearings are accurate (maybe even too accurate for my taste) but reported direction of unit's moving is not something that should be rely on, most of the time, and IMO it should be like that... My biggest objection to all SH games is too much "accuracy". Accurate GPS position, accurate range to target, accurate depth under keel, accurately auto. recognized ship, accurate gunners ect...Everithig is so precisely measured and reported..Things just weren't like that in the middle of the Atlantic...:nope:

kevinsue

06-04-15, 10:02 AM

Reported bearings are accurate (maybe even too accurate for my taste) but reported direction of unit's moving is not something that should be rely on, most of the time, and IMO it should be like that... My biggest objection to all SH games is too much "accuracy". Accurate GPS position, accurate range to target, accurate depth under keel, accurately auto. recognized ship, accurate gunners ect...Everithig is so precisely measured and reported..Things just weren't like that in the middle of the Atlantic...:nope:

Yeah....I agree.:yep: With the advent of GPS navigation in aviation at least, if you mention the "1 in 60" rule, young pilots nowadays think you're talking about a form of birth control!:D

gap

06-04-15, 12:39 PM

best thing to escape is to show the smallest silhouette to the destroyer. With no map contacts, how do you manage this?

You should costantly listen to your pursuer through the hydrophone, and adjust your course accordingly: either head towards her (if she is very close and assuming that she is heading straight for you, there are chances that you will end up into her deaf angle) or set a route opposite to her hydrophone bearing. Doing this should minimize your aspect ratio. Things can be trickier if you are caught in the middle of an hunter-killer group though. In that case you should do your best to locate their leader, and conform your evasive strategy to her position relative to your boat :salute:

maillemaker

06-04-15, 12:45 PM

best thing to escape is to show the smallest silhouette to the destroyer. With no map contacts, how do you manage this?

You can ask your soundman about the nearest contact, and that is about the best you can do, short of going to the hydrophone yourself and locating and identifying escorts.

Steve

mobucks

06-04-15, 11:04 PM

I just pop up to PD and maintain a small aspect using the periscope. Works best while they are still in the "search" phase; I don't recommend it while they are attacking unless you brought a few extra periscopes.:O:

MCM

06-06-15, 04:35 AM

Ok got it, THX :D But I like hard times...

Last question: When several DD are hunting me, one is "driving" over me, the others are listening... can I still speed up a short moment while wasserbombs are bursting?

Nice WE everyone.

mobucks

06-06-15, 07:23 AM

There used to be a mod that disturbed AI sensors while the depth-charges are falling/exploding. I think I recall it caused issues or crashes.

If a hunter-killer group is hunting you, pinging you, bombing you, and you aren't in deep water, good luck! There is a reason a full 3/4 of the U-Boat arm did not return to port.

The absolute best tactic is to never get in this situation and have to evade in the first place. Send your presents and be off before they even get a chance to open them.

Good luck!

Shaefer

06-06-15, 08:35 AM

OK, last night I hit a French convoy in the Western Approaches. Took down 3 freighters and would have hit the escort:timeout: behind me with the stern tube but forgot to set the depth shallow enough for the destroyer - damn thing went right under him, too!
Steve
When you are up against a escorted convoy, don't ever get greedy. Plot your attack from further out than you are used to (3000 + meters). Then fire them eels, and get the frick out of there.
Do not hang around at periscope depth to enjoy your great work as the eels hit. When the torpedoes hit, you should already be deep and silent, pointing away from the convoy.
One more thing; don`t attack the escort, just don`t do it. It is never worth the risk. If you fire a dud, you are in for it...
Try this at your next encounter, and your golden.:D
This is how I would go about doing it......

MCM

06-07-15, 02:56 AM

...Plot your attack from further out than you are used to (3000 + meters).

... pointing away from the convoy.

Hm that is totally different from my approach: I try to get nearer then <2000m when I shoot, then go silently under the convoy. If you are lets say 3500m away, shoot (slow running?) torpedos you have approx. 3mins before they detonate. In this short periode of time your uboot hasn't even turned full 180° (or do you go faster?). Like that you are still on almost the same point as you were shooting. But when you go straight forward you already have made some distance and you can take the advantage of having the convoy above you so destroyers have more problems on surface following you or even bombing me because of friendly ships around them.

What do you guys think?

maillemaker

06-07-15, 09:42 PM

Well, I'm an SH5 newbie, but a long-time SH3 veteran.

I try to make torpedo attacks from inside 1000m until the advent of hedgehogs. Then I hail-mary from long range.

But SH5 electric torpedoes only have a range of 3000m.

Steve

mobucks

06-08-15, 05:39 AM

Hm that is totally different from my approach: I try to get nearer then <2000m when I shoot, then go silently under the convoy. If you are lets say 3500m away, shoot (slow running?) torpedos you have approx. 3mins before they detonate. In this short periode of time your uboot hasn't even turned full 180° (or do you go faster?). Like that you are still on almost the same point as you were shooting. But when you go straight forward you already have made some distance and you can take the advantage of having the convoy above you so destroyers have more problems on surface following you or even bombing me because of friendly ships around them.

What do you guys think?

Sounds good to me. I've actually done this before. One time I dove and ripped my conning tower off while being crushed by a sinking freighter I had just torpedoed! Guess I was too close. . .

MCM

06-08-15, 07:49 AM

HAHAHA of course that could happen but this is really bad luck I guess :D

I thought again of the possibility to turn away 180°... maybe with half speed (3) ahead (and down) it is fast enough to turn around and make some yards and as soon as the first torpedo hits back to silent run at slow speed (1). Will try this next time. Additionally like that we would show the smallest shioulette to the incoming DDs :rock:

MCM

01-10-16, 04:56 AM

Now I had only small flooding but could not be repaired. After long and slowly flooding I sunk. After rethinking about it I believe my main pump was out of order. Is it possible that when the main pump is damaged you could not pump out water at all? Which compartments/equipments have to be in good condition too to stop flooding and pump out water? And which officier is responsible for this activities? When this officer is injured or dead, will the repairs go on or not?

vdr1981

01-10-16, 01:59 PM

Now I had only small flooding but could not be repaired. After long and slowly flooding I sunk.

Did you disable silent running?

MCM

01-11-16, 08:45 AM

I am sure it was disabled. Was the problem the main pump? Or that an officer was injured? (severals were injured)

vdr1981

01-11-16, 09:53 AM

I am sure it was disabled. Was the problem the main pump? Or that an officer was injured? (severals were injured)

I dont think so. It could be that your "small flooding" wasn't so "small" after all. Mild flooding will/should be repaired pretty fast in TWoS.

Check R.S.D. documentation to learn more about damage modelling in TWoS...

KirinFrost

01-11-16, 12:41 PM

When you have flooding, dont dive even deeper and make it worse.

Just stay at periscope depth or surface as quickly as possible.

Im not sure whether its modeled in the game, but not moving in real life helps sometimes when you have a hull breach.

And i shoot at a range of about 500m lol, even at destroyers. However, i also take caution to attack only at night, and in areas of the atlantic where the depth is at least 400m+ or so.

Noticed that if you dived to 100m or so with OHII, the destroyers generally leave you alone, unlike in real life whereby some famous aces like kretchmer were sunk when beyond 100m. Remember - dont take unnecessary risk. I play it like as if its real life. Once sunk, no reload of the game.

And not sure how accurate it is, but i once dived to 300m and my sub was still fine, when crush depth was meant to be 230m:o

vdr1981

01-11-16, 01:53 PM

When you have flooding, dont dive even deeper and make it worse.
When significant flooding is present and you have to dive, you should , for example, command 10m (or sometimes even less than 10m) depth and after that only use manual diveplanes to maintain any possible depth. Maintaining depth when flooding is present with RSD/TWoS is luck , skill and bit of a art...:D

And not sure how accurate it is, but i once dived to 300m and my sub was still fine, when crush depth was meant to be 230m:o
300m:doh:?? Maybe with type VIIC/41 (with one big "maybe"). I'll test this...:yep: