Convoy attacks in fog

[bstanko6]

Just looking to get an opinion. I found that attacking a convoy in fog too be a little more difficult than even in day. Your thoughts and tactics?

My personal method to attack in fog:

Get ahead of the convoy (well ahead).
Turn to get into the middle of the convoy path.
Submerge to around 20-25 meters (to keep conning tower from popping out of water during rough seas) and all stop.
Wait for lead destroyer to go past.
Pop up and go head first into convoy.

I have been playing with this method for awhile and it seems to be the best method for me. You have to be comfortable with strange AOB angles. But you will run into good targets that will have very little time to get out of the way of your eels! You may run into the occasional cruiser in the middle so be warned!

[BigWalleye]

Just looking to get an opinion. I found that attacking a convoy in fog too be a little more difficult than even in day. Your thoughts and tactics?

My personal method to attack in fog:

Get ahead of the convoy (well ahead).
Turn to get into the middle of the convoy path.
Submerge to around 20-25 meters (to keep conning tower from popping out of water during rough seas) and all stop.
Wait for lead destroyer to go past.
Pop up and go head first into convoy.

I have been playing with this method for awhile and it seems to be the best method for me. You have to be comfortable with strange AOB angles. But you will run into good targets that will have very little time to get out of the way of your eels! You may run into the occasional cruiser in the middle so be warned!

Works fine in the game. Real U-boats did not "hover", though. They kept some way on for depth control.

[bstanko6]

They never went all stop underwater? Interesting. I guess that makes sense.

[UKönig]

I guess if you had an Engineer who was skilled enough, you would be able to 'hover', or hold steady, with no forward motion. He would be able to keep depth by alternately filling and blowing the forward and aft ballast and/or trim tanks, but it would be a juggling act in anything less than calm seas, and the smallest mistake at the right time could cost you the attack.
I don't know of too many instances when U-boat captains gave the order for "all stop", as part of their attack maneuvers....

[Sailor Steve]

I guess if you had an Engineer who was skilled enough, you would be able to 'hover', or hold steady, with no forward motion. He would be able to keep depth by alternately filling and blowing the forward and aft ballast and/or trim tanks, but it would be a juggling act in anything less than calm seas, and the smallest mistake at the right time could cost you the attack.
I don't know of too many instances when U-boat captains gave the order for "all stop", as part of their attack maneuvers....
All of this is true. The problem is doing it in combat. Running the pumps makes as much or more noise than running the electric motors. It's also less reliable and precise, especially at periscope depth where one mistake with the wrong pump could put you on the surface.

[sublynx]

I try to plot the convoy's course from hydrophone bearings and then sneak submerged into the convoy's flanks. Surfaced attack is too risky, IMO, because I could get my position wrong and be rammed as the watchmen are lousy in seeing ships in fog.

So far I've been attacking from the perfect angle to minimise pistol failures. Recently I have been learning to use "curved fire" (my approach course not at a 90 degree angle to the target's course, but the torpedo still hitting the target in a 90 degree angle), and will probably attack with a non-perpendicular course from now on.

I'm not too keen on attacking in fog though. Usually fog means 15 m/s wind as well, and my eels fail too often when the wind is heavy.

[Marcello]

Italian submarines were fitted with a "hover" apparatus (as far as I understand it automated pumping for depth keeping and balancing purposes) early in the war, as a lot of "sit there and wait for the targets to show up" was expected. In practice that capability was not worth the noise it generated and usual cost/mass considerations so it was removed.

[Climbingdad]

...Recently I have been learning to use "curved fire" (my approach course not at a 90 degree angle to the target's course, but the torpedo still hitting the target in a 90 degree angle), and will probably attack with a non-perpendicular course from now on...

What is the curved fire? How do you get the torp to change angle except right after launch? Sorry if these are simple questions, but I am unsure.

I typically like to attack at not 90deg angle since I usually use mag and it gives the torps more time under the hull to detect.

[sublynx]

Google this: PDF Contact Approach Attack Contact Helmut Saueregger.

You'll find a short PDF that among other things teaches how to set up for a shot like that.

[Obltn Strand]

It`s rare occasion to intercept convoy in fog. I try to pick few targets fom the side and then race away. Down side is that damaged ships are extremely hard to find. So is gathering targeting data.

[Climbingdad]

Google this: PDF Contact Approach Attack Contact Helmut Saueregger.

You'll find a short PDF that among other things teaches how to set up for a shot like that.

Thank you! Interesting reading, and definitely going to try it out some.

[sublynx]

If I remember correctly nataraj, who wrote the pdf, consulted a submarine officer when writing the instructions. Anyways it's a concise and extremely useful document.

[Climbingdad]

If I remember correctly nataraj, who wrote the pdf, consulted a submarine officer when writing the instructions. Anyways it's a concise and extremely useful document.


This is a great doc indeed. Question though, wouldn't you want the TTa = 90 and not actual AOB? Seems like that would make the chances of solid impact more likely.

Another question.... I don't think there is, but is there any way to change the reach in SH3 (how far before the torp makes it turn)? I think this would make shots of TTa closer to 90 possible when the target is leading you.

[sublynx]

1. You are right about the chances of hitting being better with smaller gyro angles. Curved fire adds tactical versatility, giving more options for evading escorts while approaching and giving more options on making escaping a little bit easier. One might also find one's U-boat too close for a perpendicular launch and set up for gyro angled shot instead.

2. My guess is that reach is hardcoded.

[brazuca22]

Hi there!

I'm getting frustrated because it's impossible to attack or even approach a convoy in late stages of the war (March 1944). As soon as you are detected by radar, you dive and destroyers start pinging you long before you get near the convoy or even see a merchant...
What's the strategy here? Attack the escorts? They can find me even when i'm submerged at 30m with the engines at full stop!!:hmmm:

Thanks

[Aktungbby]

At this stage of the war 30 meters is suicide! Gotta be 100 meters or more! One tactic I use is to submerge to 200 meters on silent and, as the escort passes over or approaches....increase to full speed toward the convoy blowing ballast to periscope depth as I do so to really increase speed...generally good for for one shot(salvo)...make sure your air tanks and batteries are (full up) not depleted beforehand. This leaves the escort in your wake (always have a Zaunkönig accoustic torpedo loaded aft for this guy) and gives you a shot at the convoy before re-submerging to great depth again. Two things: come up just short at twenty meters to avoid accidentally broaching(it happens) and if the escort is 2-3 thousand meters behind you at this point, surface completely :timeout: but still heavy at 5-6 meters-decks awash- to recharge your compressed air lost in the blow-ballast ploy. GUTSY MOVE HERE! This allows a faster surface approach to the now escort-free side merchantmen and a faster re-submerge to periscope depth if fired upon by an armed merchant or an assisting escort closing your position at speed. Try to get in the convoy to escape quietly under cover of the ship engines. :arrgh!: Buenas Cazas Hombre

[brazuca22]

Humm... I'll try getting deeper.
Thanks for the tips.

[bstanko6]

Just to add to this, It was December 1940, it was foggy. Called in a wolfpack. The pack began to attack at night. I am about 5000 meters from an armed trawler. As soon as the trawler speeds off to investigate the attacks, I turn in and spot an Empire freighter. I start my calculations, set up my TDC, and even fire off a few shots (missed) when I am spotted by an Aux cruiser. I get shelled (surface attack), and my crew did a great job holding off the flooding, but to no prevail. We sink. And that was the end. Even early in the war, it is a gamble.

[UKönig]

Hi there!

I'm getting frustrated because it's impossible to attack or even approach a convoy in late stages of the war (March 1944). As soon as you are detected by radar, you dive and destroyers start pinging you long before you get near the convoy or even see a merchant...
What's the strategy here? Attack the escorts? They can find me even when i'm submerged at 30m with the engines at full stop!!:hmmm:

Thanks

One of Torpedo school's "genius" ideas to the problem of convoy interception was the LuT. In theory, you set them up to about 4-5km away, fire off a spread, like a full volley of 4 (6 if you happen to have a type XXI), and with the ladder pattern search mode, again, theoretically something should hit something. In hunting terms, it would be like shooting at geese with a sawed off shotgun, while wearing a blindfold, possibly turning through 45 degrees all at once. Only when you're out of ammo, do you get to lift the blinder to see if you actually hit anything. As you can see, this does not fill the U-boat captain with much hope for success.