My idea for a relevant sub sim for this Generation.

[Tcman95]

Ok guys look at the tech we have so far with AAA games such as skyrim. We have the technology needed to reboot this genera. We are however missing Direction, Concept, and Lastly Skill. (no offence to modders)

In skyrim everyone has a purpose they farm, hunt, and go about their daily lives. This would be mandatory in a game such as this. You can pull in voice actors, scripts and community content, as well as character customization.
The crew on board our vessel would need to be, or appear to be a ever expanding organism. Like in Rome 2 Total war. Based on your actions your generals gain traits or ability. We have seen the bear bones structure of this in SH5. However this would also need to relate to other ships. They have a purpose, a mission and they will attempt to do that mission. However it needs to be smart enough so it does not appear to be your run of the mill NPC standing around your objective.

This game however would need to broaden the topic from submarines. I would personally like surface and land combat. perhaps even aviation. This would allow us to gather the Biggest demographic strictly because it caters to everyone. Throw in a story line kinda resembling medal of honor and theirs your FPS bone.

So basically what I am getting at is focus on the full war, and throw in A little alternate history here and there. Random characters, Simulated engineering, Character customization, Evolving crew kinda like The republic at war. and The option to join the branch that you want. Air force, Army or marines. And country. And you have a grade A game there.

Whats great about this idea, having all the ships have their own missions. Is that when we select a ship, aircraft carrier... etc the missions are already there.

I'd like the Game to be more in depth then silent hunter ever was. I want to walk up to a hole in the wall, grab a patch, and bolt it on. Remember the old game Tonka? Or that Mechanic sim. Put that in a game and I bet you will attract a lot of people.

So lets start with a script, nothing fancy just enough to get the idea out.

So for a submarine story line.
You start out, October 1941 Your character, joins the US Navy. You spend a bit of time in basic, learning how to move fire a weapon ETC. After you show promise, so you are selected to join the US carrier group. During which you learn about submarine combat. However December 7th 1941 you hear over the radio about pearl harbor. After which your captain is tasked to located the enemy air craft carriers. So after you locate them at midway, you participate in the Battle as one of the crew in your submarine.

After the Battle of Midway you are given command of your own submarine.
Where your mission is to hunt down enemy cargo, and naval targets. Now in Silent Hunter 5 you have the ability to report contacts to I presume the Naval high command. I personally would want this system better utilized.

The Script would go like this. Locate Japanese coastal merchant low tier fleet. Report contact, after some time lag, and random amount of time you will be contacted. You will then be ordered to engage, or disengage depending on certain conditions, Such as other captains in the area, aircraft, or other support available your main patrol objective; and the status of your submarine.

With better AI we should have the ability to do a cooperative strike with other captains. And also the ability to upgrade and use new submarines, or ships.

If you complete WWII it should go to some liner story, kinda like Fallout New Vegas Where it talks about important battles, key events ETC. Then it goes "character" then retired at the rank of admiral, Married and had a son. Few more generations and you start off early, or before the cold war. Throw in a bit of filler content, and some cut scenes and you got 2 full games which I think should be spliced together via dlc to make it more manageable. Hell via this method you could go clear to Modern war.

Edit. By the way guys, try to keep on topic. We are not here to consider costs as of yet. I want to get us thinking about what we would want from a game like this.

So yea this game would need allot, but we have the technology to do this. Please respond with your input. And always, keep your ears on your sonar.

[Aktungbby]

Tcman95!:Kaleun_Salute:

[Tcman95]

Tcman95!:Kaleun_Salute:

Hey thanks, was rather looking for some raw input though lol!

[Platapus]

Welcome Aboard

It all sounds good... good and expensive to make. I am not sure there is a large enough customer base for such a game.

Making a WWII submarine simulator is a delicate balancing act. Make it too realistic and it would be boring. Make it too exciting and it would be less a simulator and more an arcade type game.

This why I, personally, feel the mods have done a wonderful job with SH3 and SH4 trying to get that balance more finely tuned.

I agree we have the technology. I am not sure the demand would be there from a commercial standpoint.

Someone has to pay to make this and they probably want their money back in sales. I don't have the money, that's for sure. :wah:

You ask three SubSim members what they want to see in a new simulator and you will get five different answers. :D

[Tcman95]

Welcome Aboard

It all sounds good... good and expensive to make. I am not sure there is a large enough customer base for such a game.

Making a WWII submarine simulator is a delicate balancing act. Make it too realistic and it would be boring. Make it too exciting and it would be less a simulator and more an arcade type game.

This why I, personally, feel the mods have done a wonderful job with SH3 and SH4 trying to get that balance more finely tuned.

I agree we have the technology. I am not sure the demand would be there from a commercial standpoint.

Someone has to pay to make this and they probably want their money back in sales. I don't have the money, that's for sure. :wah:

You ask three SubSim members what they want to see in a new simulator and you will get five different answers. :D


See here's the thing, I am not talking about a submarine simulator. I am talking about a full, story based WWII combat, Army, Navy, Marines, and Air Force; Simulation, RPG, FPS. A game that gives you the option of Being infantry, IE Medal of honor, Aircraft combat IE Combat Flight Simulator, Naval Combat Including Submarines and Surface Vesicles, And Army Tank warfare. With the option of selecting vesicle type and upgrading or modifying said vehicle. A game like this will hit every demographic.

[razark]

This game however would need to broaden the topic from submarines. I would personally like surface and land combat. perhaps even aviation.
I would like a submarine simulation that focuses on the submarines. Every bit spent putting in surface/land/air is that much less spent on what should be the primary concern of a subsim.

Throw in a story line...
And now you've completely lost me. I've never been a big fan of games that impose a story on me. I much more prefer a game that provides a framework that I build my own story in.

[Platapus]

See here's the thing, I am not talking about a submarine simulator. I am talking about a full, story based WWII combat, Army, Navy, Marines, and Air Force; Simulation, RPG, FPS. A game that gives you the option of Being infantry, IE Medal of honor, Aircraft combat IE Combat Flight Simulator, Naval Combat Including Submarines and Surface Vesicles, And Army Tank warfare. With the option of selecting vesicle type and upgrading or modifying said vehicle. A game like this will hit every demographic.

Sort of a Grand Unification Theory of simulators huh? That's gonna be a bit expensive.

Does the current video game demographic really want WWII stuff any more. To many many people, WWII was a long long time ago.

Maybe someone can start a Kickstarter and see if the demographic is willing to put their money where it counts? That's one way to find actual buy in for such ideas.

[Jeff-Groves]

I'm not 100% sure, but I think it's the "vesicle type" that puts me off.
:hmmm:

[Tcman95]

Sort of a Grand Unification Theory of simulators huh? That's gonna be a bit expensive.

Does the current video game demographic really want WWII stuff any more. To many many people, WWII was a long long time ago.

Maybe someone can start a Kickstarter and see if the demographic is willing to put their money where it counts? That's one way to find actual buy in for such ideas.

Ight guys stop thinking about cost here for a second, we are here to figure out what we want.

[Tcman95]

I'm not 100% sure, but I think it's the "vesicle type" that puts me off.
:hmmm:

My spelling is not 100% accurate, that being said. No one likes a grammar Nazi.

[Harvs]

I want a submarine simulation that does not cost a lot and will not require me to buy a 1tb hard drive to fit it on.

[Tcman95]

I want a submarine simulation that does not cost a lot and will not require me to buy a 1tb hard drive to fit it on.

Perhaps then we could make each division (Army, Navy, Marines, Air force)
DLC, however if we were to go that rout it may gain some hate resembling Total War Attila.
I believe that Age of Empires had a system where you were able to play multiplayer with a person who owned a
separate DLC then the host. However by doing this we are thinking in the past, and not to the future.
Sooner or later you will have to upgrade, and then again, and again, and again.

[Jeff-Groves]

My spelling is not 100% accurate, that being said. No one likes a grammar Nazi.
It was a joke Mate.
:har:

And We do like Steve.
A lot...........
:hmmm:
Kinda.........
:hmm2:
Maybe............
:shifty:

Well he's a Moderator so We're kinda stuck with him.
:03:

[Tcman95]

It was a joke Mate.
:har:

And We do like Steve.
A lot...........
:hmmm:
Kinda.........
:hmm2:
Maybe............
:shifty:

Well he's a Moderator so We're kinda stuck with him.
:03:

So giving a guy a badge gives him permission to be a dick? Back in my day, staff was a Representative of their community.

I have successfully combined a joke, and a truth in one sentence.

[Jeff-Groves]

So giving a guy a badge gives him permission to be a dick? Back in my day, staff was a Representative of their community.

I have successfully combined a joke, and a truth in one sentence.
We do prefer the proper name 'Richard'.
:har:

[Tcman95]

We do prefer the proper name 'Richard'.
:har:

If you are going to talk ****, you had better learn to like the taste.

Wait. so dick is fine, while shyte is not?

[Jeff-Groves]

In my 'Way da frig back days' there was a Game called Doom.
On-line play there was a mod that allowed jumping from server to server.
Each server had a different 'Game Version Mod' running.
That was quite the thing back then.

So I could see a program to connect different Games to do what you want.

[Jeff-Groves]

If you are going to talk ****, you had better learn to like the taste.

Wait. so dick is fine, while shyte is not?
Dude. Lighten up. Or have a few more drinks.
:D
You posted in GT. It's open Game here.
(Well, it seems to be most times)

[Sailor Steve]

If you are going to talk ****, you had better learn to like the taste.

Wait. so dick is fine, while shyte is not?
Not really. I would suggest you take the time to read Subsim's rules on language.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/faq.php?faq=vb_faq#faq_new_faq_item_language

Also, you seem to be growing a little defensive. A couple of people disagreeing with you isn't a good reason to start being rude, and that first comment sounds a little like a threat.

[Tcman95]

Dude. Lighten up. Or have a few more drinks.
:D
You posted in GT. It's open Game here.
(Well, it seems to be most times)

Guys, I'm calm and im here to have fun. And my mother taught me vulgarity.
But yea back to topic.

[Tcman95]

In my 'Way da frig back days' there was a Game called Doom.
On-line play there was a mod that allowed jumping from server to server.
Each server had a different 'Game Version Mod' running.
That was quite the thing back then.

So I could see a program to connect different Games to do what you want.

I think I remember that, but my parents were highly security conscious back then so no online interactions.

[Jeff-Groves]

I think I remember that, but my parents were highly security conscious back then so no online interactions.

I was part owner of an ISP back in the mid 90's
We ran something like 6 or 8 Game Servers back then.

[Sailor Steve]

It seems a bit ambitious to me. In my thinking the more you add the more difficult it is for the whole to be stable and for the parts to appeal to different players. Then again I only play certain things because I like the machinery - specifically ships and planes. I don't see how something that big and varied can appeal to the hard-core machinery buff like me.

I admit my tastes are limited. I'm probably also older than your parents. :dead:

[Tcman95]

It seems a bit ambitious to me. In my thinking the more you add the more difficult it is for the whole to be stable and for the parts to appeal to different players. Then again I only play certain things because I like the machinery - specifically ships and planes. I don't see how something that big and varied can appeal to the hard-core machinery buff like me.

I admit my tastes are limited. I'm probably also older than your parents. :dead:

This could be another reason to sell the separate divisions as DLC.
If we were to do this to the standard expected by long term fans simulations then each of these would be enough to be its own stand alone game.

Imagine if you will, WWII Ground combat, to the standard of a Game such as Arma 3.

You would start with ground combat (AKA Army). This version would include both Infantry and Merchandised armor, It would also include the basic engineer functionality. Release that as the Primary part of the game, the only one required for all other DLC.

So instead of buying Call of duty, Call of duty black ops, Call of duty Modern Warfare (not much of a cod fan but best example I can think of.) You would buy DlC's which by all rights should be stand alone games. So in the end you would have The Base Game with 3 dlcs, then the progression to the Cold war where you would kick off as the son of your original player. Kinda like the end of SPOILERS red dead redemption.

The next DLC which would not be required would be the Marine DLC which focuses on advanced weapons and tactics. IE Bi-pod, advanced explosives, etc. This DLC would also include basic water craft, such as rafts and jet ski

After that would be the Naval DLC this would This would give you full simulated naval combat including missions relating to the Marines and Army if they are activated.

The Last would be the Aviation DLC this would allow you control of aircraft, and would unlock missions with the navy, and army when those DLCs are enabled. It would also give you a few unlocks such as aircraft carriers with the Naval DLC.

Now before you start complaining about the memory issues I have an idea for that. So everything has a mission, everything has a job; and a set goal.
With that, you can calculate where a force needs to be when it needs to be their, and how long it will take. This will work for both historical battles, by just entering in basic details via who won, and who lost. And make a radio broadcast with historical data. And Alternate history with filler content.

However when you are in an area you have the ability to effect the outcome.
Say if you win the Battle of Midway as the Japanese then we just need a few fiction writers to do their dirty work, add in a few stats such as kills deaths etc. And their you go, not much different from what the show deadliest warrior does.

This would have 2 pro's that I can see. It would allow the player to influence the world without everything actually happening in real time. By defeating a troop transport all the computer needs to do is subtract the amount of men, supplies and munitions from the battle, outweigh the pro's and con's much like Deadliest warrior does. Without the intense memory needed to play out a battle in real time. Kinda like Auto-resolving combat in Rome 2 total war.

This way this Game, would turn in to a massive program with every DLC adding to the story.
Now that I think of this, its kinda the perfect scam...
The only problem I see is people resenting the fact that they need to buy DLC to finish the story... However this would be the easiest way to let the consumer decide how involved he wants to be, how much he wants to spend. And with the Cold war DLCs how many of the core DLCs would be required to be bought. Would we need the core game DLC to be installed to have a full cold war experience? And would the cold war dlc just be a re-skin of existing craft. I would prefer a complete stand alone DLC bundle for the cold war; but that would hardly be cost effective. And now on a side note, if the player wants to skip the WWII experience will he need to own
all the core dlc to play the cold war?

BTW my parents are both 70+ lol.

[Oberon]

Who is this 'we' that is consistently referred to?

I think everyone has their dream game or sim that they would love to be seen made, but reality and its constrictions often get in the way to scupper said dreams.

My advice would be to talk amongst the people down in the 'Indie subsim' section to get an idea of what struggles they've faced and wisdom they have to share, and then consider the scope of your project and then, and only then, consider finding a team and financial backing.

[Harvs]

Its a lot to download when you are on a data plan, when i bought wolfenstein the new order i had to wait 3 months to play it because i only get 15gb per month and their was a 30gb patch before i could play it, so i think the more i have to download its not really worth it.

wolfenstein the new order = $75.00
30gb of data =$210.00

[Schroeder]

One could use the approach that DCS (Digital Combat Simulator) takes. It started with just (very realistic) aircraft and is expanding into land based operations as well. All in DLCs. You can get the world for free (with two aircraft) and just buy the stuff you like. There are several independent teams working on their projects and merge them with the game world. I'm not exactly a big fan of this approach however as this means that there is a lack of focus on one scenario which has left us (for now) with a lot of different aircraft which can't really interact with each other in any historic context (for example there are a few aircraft from the Vietnam era but not enough for a realistic scenario, there also is no Vietnam map or ground units...same goes for WWII... and Korea....everybody builds his pet project whether it fits to the already existing content or not). This means that a lot of units don't see much use until much later when matching content has been created to make a meaningful campaign with them. The game has also been in development for ages.

[Tcman95]

One could use the approach that DCS (Digital Combat Simulator) takes. It started with just (very realistic) aircraft and is expanding into land based operations as well. All in DLCs. You can get the world for free (with two aircraft) and just buy the stuff you like. There are several independent teams working on their projects and merge them with the game world. I'm not exactly a big fan of this approach however as this means that there is a lack of focus on one scenario which has left us (for now) with a lot of different aircraft which can't really interact with each other in any historic context (for example there are a few aircraft from the Vietnam era but not enough for a realistic scenario, there also is no Vietnam map or ground units...same goes for WWII... and Korea....everybody builds his pet project whether it fits to the already existing content or not). This means that a lot of units don't see much use until much later when matching content has been created to make a meaningful campaign with them. The game has also been in development for ages.

This makes sense, the only reason why I say that the army dlc should be the first part of the game is because this would allow US (eff off) to define how a character moves, and work on textures. It would have the basics, then you can choose what you want based off the advanced if you want to go off of the navy, maybe the air force. This would allow you to choose your own path through history.

Yes the air force DLC would unlock more missions for the Navy DLC, and even a new tier of controllable ships but it would not limit your personal world in any way if you chose not to download it.

[Stealhead]

I'm curious if theses vesicles where to rupture dose cell then die?:hmmm:

[Oberon]

What sort of graphics engine would this proposed project run on? 2D or 3D?
What fund-raising system would be in place to arrange funds to move forward with such a project?
Who would be the leader of the project?

Those are just three questions off the top of my head, and that's before we get into things such as hiring people and salaries.

This thread reminds me a fair bit of one that we had over in the General Games forum a while ago...let me see if I can find it...

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=195228

Here.

[Stealhead]

Who is this 'we' that is consistently referred to?

The royal we I gather. Which will be added in via an as yet undetermined DLC. I think all it needs a zombie mode and we have a franchise.

[Oberon]

The royal we I gather. Which will be added in via an as yet undetermined DLC. I think all it needs a zombie mode and we have a franchise.

It's probably the only thing that hasn't featured zombies in it yet...although I swear some of the ASW Trawlers in GWX have a zombie crew...they never rest...they never tire...they will always find you, and ping you...always... :dead:

[Harvs]

Could you also define "this generation"? What age bracket are we looking at? Will i be to old to play it?

[Tcman95]

I'm not exactly creating this, just putting the idea out there.