How i sank a Destroyer with my deckgun

[Nemo66]

Winter 1940, Type VII B on patrol somewhere near the Western Approaches.

It was a dark deep night in, nothing to see at all, so i decided to dive to use my hydrophones. Almost immediately i got contact with a destroyer, coming up behind me. I decided to wait near his course with engines off, and take a close look at him. As he passed by, only a few hundred meters away, i saw that he was not going very fast, only 11knts.

A crazy idea came to my mind. I decided to follow him, right in line with his course, and to attack him surprisingly from the back with my deckgun when i was close enough. :arrgh!:

So i followed him underwater with 5-7 knots, slowly turning more and more into his course. It took quite some time but finally i was just in the line of his course, my bow directing exactly towards his stern. He was 6000 meters away now, and i surfaced to 7,8 m. Half submerged i followed him with my diesels at flank speed giving me 12 knots, just one more than his speed. I came closer and closer, but of course this also took quite a while. I was totally blending in with the dark night, showing my lowest profile to his stern, an area where i knew, his lookouts would be doing their job not too concentrated.

I knew that i would have to get kind of close, because with my first few rounds i had to take out at least his stern turrets to have any chance at all.

I was at about 900m when i fully surfaced. This was the critical moment, if he would spot me now he would shell me to pieces.

But nothing happened and i set my speed to also 11knots, i did not want to come any closer. Then i ordered my guncrew to shoot at his weapons, but went to the gun myself before they could shoot. I knew they always need some rounds before they really hit a target, and i knew i had to hit him hard with the first few rounds. But i knew also, that he would do a turn to give me some broadsides, as soon as he realized what was going on. I knew that i had to manoeuver my boat very soon in order to stay in his back. I wanted my guncrew to fire while i would be manoeuvering, therefore i gave this order to them. I loaded AP amo because it's way more effective against warships.

OK, everything was prepared now. I aimed very concentrated at his stern turret, took a deep breath, and fired.

My first shot hit his D-turret and blew it right off the deck. YEEHAA! Reload. Second shot hit the backside of his bridge. Reload. 3rd shot hit close to his C-turret but did not damage it. Turret C fired at me me but way too short. Now he had realized what was going on, speeded up and started to turn to starboard. I left the gun for a few moments to navigate and stay in his back. My gunners hit him with their 3rd or 4th shot and his C-turret was full on fire, but still shooting at me.

Standing at the bridge his shell dragged me a new vertex and missed my head only by an inch. :o

I went back to the gun and hit the C-turret again and it blew off. The destroyer had turned now for about 30 degrees and i saw his turrets A and B turning grimly towards me. I targetted them, and right before they fully were turned, i had hit both of them several times, taking them out of business. The Destroyer was a bit on fire, and couldn't use it's heavy guns anymore, but he still turned to starboard. I realized that he was firing at me with his stern and starboard AA guns. I give order for peri depth, only to get my guncrew fast inside the boat, just one moment before 2cm shells started raining all over my deck from bow to stern. At once i give order for 7,8m again, but i only put one single sailor on the bridge, to keep the risk of crew losses small. Now i navigated my boat with diesels on his course again, so what we did now was a great turn on the same circle. I was fully in his back again, and he could only shoot with his stern AAGs. I fully surfaced again now, and gunned his bridge and deck to pieces. He was still firing with a few AAGs but he did not really hit my boat anymore. He still tried to turn to starboard but i followed his manouvers and let auto-gunners do their job. They hit him regularly now and his stern was fully in flames. Now he showed me a bit of his broadside again, and i ordered to shoot below waterline. He got one hit after another and his speed went down to only a few knots. I slow down too and keep the distance. Now most of the AAGs had been taken out too, and i man the gun myself and give him the rest. Now it was not a fight anymore, only one of us was still shooting. I realized that he started to sink by starboard. I gave him a few more shells but he was done.

Maybe 4 minutes after my first shell he was on his last way down to the seaground. Bon voyage! I did not loose any crew and took no damage at all, he had been assasinated too surprisingly. :cool:

The destroyer was a River-class if i remember right, and i had a VII B or maybe C, i don't remember exactly. It was pre-radar time of course, and it was done in one of my careers with a stock 1.4b version.

[UKönig]

Nice work! You got pretty lucky.
As a surface combat vessel the U-boat is a washout. Hopelessly outclassed by virtually *all* of its opponents. Too low in the water, low lateral stability, visual range too short. Weapons awkward and cumbersome. Rate of fire too low. Too slow, both on the surface and under it. Still, it's a good feeling to accomplish something difficult and "fight above your weight" and win.
I have taken out armed trawlers with the deck gun. I think I even managed to score a few lucky long range shots against a corvette as it was approaching, so that by the time it got within 2km I was already the victor.
But as a general rule I do not fight above my weight class. I will take on surface vessels no bigger than a corvette, and only under specific circumstances, otherwise ...we go under. Attack from stealth, or just creep away and hope he doesn't notice or loses interest.

[Kensai7]

I had come across a video on YouTube that did something similar. In that case, the destroyer was returning fire but the dude was super lucky into sinking it first. If I find it again I will post it here. :shucks:

[Sailor Steve]

Real life: Destroyer with four or five guns, fire control system, trained for surface warfare. Submarine with one gun, iron sights, no fire control, much less stable platform.

Game: It's a game. You can get away with all kinds of nonsense.

But as a general rule I do not fight above my weight class. I will take on surface vessels no bigger than a corvette, and only under specific circumstances, otherwise ...we go under. Attack from stealth, or just creep away and hope he doesn't notice or loses interest.
We used to have players doing a lot of posting about how they sank corvettes by surfacing behind them. Nicholas Monsarrat (The Cruel Sea) told a story of a U-boat that surfaced behind his corvette. The 40mm gun mounted aft took care of the boat's gun crew before they could even get the water plug out of the gun. The U-boat surrendered after that.

I try not to do things that wouldn't work in real life, no matter how easy the game makes it.

[UKönig]

Oh, no contest!
A U-boat vs a surface vessel gets its ass handed to it every time. If you wanted to fight a surface battle, you should have just brought a surface ship.
Those 'specific circumstances' that I mentioned are really, 'when I know he can do nothing about it -ie-no return fire.'. If there is even the smallest chance that a gun can still be trained on my boat, I will not engage on the surface.
If I wanted to do something like that, then I would just put 'unlimited damage' on and go to town. All the rules would be thrown out the window at that point.
But the game is not that fun (my opinion) if there is no (simulated) risk.

[GoldenRivet]

Real life: Destroyer with four or five guns, fire control system, trained for surface warfare. Submarine with one gun, iron sights, no fire control, much less stable platform.

Game: It's a game. You can get away with all kinds of nonsense.


We used to have players doing a lot of posting about how they sank corvettes by surfacing behind them. Nicholas Monsarrat (The Cruel Sea) told a story of a U-boat that surfaced behind his corvette. The 40mm gun mounted aft took care of the boat's gun crew before they could even get the water plug out of the gun. The U-boat surrendered after that.

I try not to do things that wouldn't work in real life, no matter how easy the game makes it.

additionally if the destroyer went ahead flank and rolled 3 or 4 depth charges off the rack with a shallow enough setting the u-boat would have probably suffered some pretty substantial damage

[rowi58]

...
I try not to do things that wouldn't work in real life, no matter how easy the game makes it.

Exactly. Only in case of emergency. Once i reloaded external torpedos (with h.sie's patch) and could not dive soon. A "Hunt II" destroyer attacs me and (stupid destroyer commander) opened fire at about 6,000 m distance. I replied fire (manualy) and with one lucky shot i destroyed his bow 4-Inch-Twin gun. The rest was easy - but i'll never ever do this again. :ahoy:

Greetings
rowi58

[Zosimus]

I sank a destroyer with a deck gun once. It was out of ammo and couldn't return fire. No way I would try to surface in the wake of a destroyer and follow it at 7 knots for awhile until I got the hang of shooting at it.

[sublynx]

The AI is too stupid to shoot any crewmen from the U-boat's deck with light weapons, to weave to make shooting at it more difficult and it does not try doing the obvious - ramming the U-boat.

The sim is not a simulation of surface ship warfare.

[rowi58]

...
does not try doing the obvious - ramming the U-boat.
...


Oh, they do it. And that's terrible. Lost some Careers with this behavior. Hunt class and Clemson class are the best destroyers in this - and your crew on the bridge doesen't see them in time.

Greetings
rowi58

[UKönig]

I'd swear I'd been rammed before.
Some players say that the AI just gets 'target fixation' and chases you down until you get 'run over' but to me, that's the same as being rammed. The end result is a destroyed boat and a terminated career.

[Zosimus]

Destroyers definitely ram. I don't know whether they just hope to pass over you on the surface and depth charge you or whether it's intentional. The effect is the same.

[sublynx]

I now realise how cautious I've been through all my playing years... The only time I've collided with a warship was once in 1939 with a type II. The visibility was something like 500 meters, and a corvette scraped my port side. It didn't shoot or use search lights, and I'm inclined to think that the corvette didn't see me. I got away from it running on surface as the visibility was so lousy. It was a low visibility traffic accident, IMO.

But I believe you guys. It's good to hear that the AI isn't that stupid, and they do try to run over you.

What I would still argue, though, is that a destroyer, even with its main guns out, would still take a U-boat out by flank speed maneuvering, light weapons fire, and ramming.

Come to think of it, I've only seen destroyers in a surface fight in those short moments that my boat has been depth charged to pieces and I have been forced to surface. So what do I know... SH3 still has many secrets, even after all these years :ping:

[Nemo66]

I perfectly understand what some of you say about that somehow "unrealistic" attack, in real life of course i would not loose a single second with thinking about crazy plans like this at all. Also i did not want to give the impression, that i do this every day, or that this should be the way destroyers should be taken on from now as a standard procedure.
I just like to test the limits of the game as well as the limits of my skills. I thougt some of you might be interested what one can do in the game, following a precise tactical plan with lots of patience, discipline, exact navigation/manouvering and precise shooting, it was by far not a dumb and thougtless arcade-style attack which made this success possible. And of course i got lucky too!
I like to play the game in different ways from time to time. Sometimes i play perfectly "realistic", that means i do not want to get sunk and surviving of me, my boat and my crew are my main goal, and i do nothing i wouldn't do in real life.
Another day i might do some crazy attacks or fight with units i seemingly can not defeat, just for the pure fun of it. It's a good training and sometimes....sorry mates....i win! :oops:


P.S.: I was 900 meters away, depth charges would have helped nothing. Also the destroyer tried to speed up, turn, and ram me but i would not let him do so. I always navigated to stay in his back, i hit his bridge at least twice, which may have caused some confusion, and also hit his engine room several times below waterline, which seriously lowered his speed and manouverability. It's not so much the problem of the game or the detroyer as you might think, it was more doing the right thing in the right moment in the right way. (and having a big portion of luck doing so of course) Having a thougtful attack plan and following it with discipline together with quick, appropriate and flexible reacting to new situations is my main key for success.

[sublynx]

Not to say that you shouldn't try different things, Nemo66. I once made a deck gun attack against a pair of armed merchants. The first one had a deck gun in the stern of the ship, the second one had a deck gun in the bow of the ship. I kept behind the second one and the merchants couldn't shoot me as I was covered by the second one. In fact the first merchant had a couple of friendly fire accidental shots against his mate. After a while I realised that in real life the merchants probably would have changed their courses, and they would could have had some machine guns, heavy machine guns or 20 mm guns on the ships for AA purposes. The effective range of a machine gun is just under 2 kilometers and the deck gun crew have no protection whatsoever.

But that's the beauty of this game. 10 years old, and almost every day there's something new. A new way of playing, somebody makes a mod that changes something previously unimaginable :arrgh!:

[Nemo66]

SH3 still has many secrets, even after all these yearsYes man, that's why i never lost interest! It's secrets make the game so different. And most of the time they are quite useful and logical, or at least nice little candy stuff. I also like the fact, that you can't find everything in the book. You have to try things yourself and find out the limitations of the game on your own.
Many things like gun or torpedo physics are also modelled very differentiated, but you almost never see the effects like a torp "jumping" out of the water, slipping off a ship's side. Just like in real life special things need special circumstances! :cool:


But that's the beauty of this game. 10 years old, and almost every day there's something new. A new way of playing, somebody makes a mod that changes something previously unimaginableTrue, mate. I have not experienced all the mods yet, i think it's a lifetime job to really checck all of them out, and also the combinations... Or you find something new yourself. Small and minor things most of the time, but it is a real PC game wonder to see this happen after a decade! I love that the game is so bloody unpredictable. :rock:

[sublynx]

Many things like gun or torpedo physics are also modelled very differentiated, but you almost never see the effects like a torp "jumping" out of the water, slipping off a ship's side.

That reminds me of another surprise the game managed to bring me a couple of patrols away. I now have external views on as I'm trying to learn curved fire shooting. I had to shoot two torpedoes very quickly as a destroyer had spotted me. The first torpedo hit under the target's stern mast. The second torpedo was either going to be a near-miss or hit the propellers.

And then...

The explosion from the first torpedo threw the second torpedo off its course :o It slowed a bit, was thrown a little bit to the left, and then continued its run, but turned a bit, maybe something like 20 - 30 degrees from its initial course.

The game never stops its surprises :D

[UKönig]

I play with the exterior views on. One day I was observing a potential strike against a warship. It was low visibility, medium fog, and high seas.
At the right moment, through a combination of factors, suddenly, the waves flipped my torpedo out of the water, and it slammed into the upper superstructure or bridge area, like a missile. Boom. The clemson destroyer I hit started careening around like a headless chicken, until it finally slowed down and started to sink. Millions to one odds to be sure, but amazing to watch nonetheless.
This game is capable of so much and I think it may be that other players do not enable the external views, so they don't really see what happens when they strike.
Also, I noticed that the seeking torpedo can be quite sensitive to sound.
Normally they tell you 'go to silent running just before/after you launch from the bow' and 'go silent and deep' if you fire from the stern. My target was hung up on the coast line, making himself an easy hit for me. I fired my last fish (from U-2503, a seeker), which started to run a path towards the ship that was revving and dropping, and revving, to get off the coast line. As I watched from the TDC page, I could see suddenly that my seeker was turning back towards me. I thought conditions were such that this would not happen, but I could see clearly that it was. Quickly I ordered "all stop", to quit all racket aboard my boat, and 'Lo and Behold, the seeker re-acquired the destroyer and started back in his direction...Boom. Even the noise from the auxiliary machinery and pumps is modeled in the game...

[maillemaker]

In stock SH3 yes you can take out destroyers fairly easily with the deck gun. You can shoot more accurately at longer range than they can.

With GWX it is very difficult, though I have done. But you will take heavy damage.

Steve

[Kensai7]

Nonetheless, 9 out of 10 times you try to outgun a destroyer on the surface you will die. It is really difficult to sink it before it sinks you. In reality this chance would have been even slimmer, but for a game it's alright.

:arrgh!: