Advice for poor weather engagements

[RushTheBus]

Hi all, i'm having some difficulty getting positive hits with torpedoes during rough weather. I'm paroling a grid right off the eastern English coast and the weather for the past three in game days has been horrible (13 - 15 m/s wind, heavy seas, rain, etc).

I identified and engaged a basic sea steamer. Now, in total, i launched 4 torpedos - all four crossed the ships path but none hit. I made sure to switch to the impact pistol and set the depth to well above the draft (which was 7.3 on this ship). I set the depth to 5, 4, 3, and then 2 feet respectively and none of them hit upon crossing the ships path.

I guess my question is, am i doing something wrong (in terms of torpedo settings) or is it simply not smart to engage in the more rough weather?

FWIW i am using GWX.

I do appreciate the help and advice.

Rush

Edit: I reviewed NeonSamurai's newbie guide and took his advice but nothing seems to work. I'm still having issues, it seems no matter what i do the torpedo remains too deep and passes under the keel of the boat. Even as a test case i conducted a surface torpedo attack and even set at 2m depth they ran underneath her at 1400m. The only other thing i can think is that my angle is too oblique but even then, they aren't even come close enough to the hill to impact it. The wind is ~ 10-13 m/s so i cant engage with my deck gun.

[raymond6751]

It looks like you have done it all correctly. Unfortunate luck, but duds in the early war were common. I'd say reload and wait for the weather to clear. Perhaps, to experiment, watch the torpedoes run in your little animations window. (If turned on.) You may see why they miss or if they hit. I'd still say, wait.

[BigWalleye]

Please post your active mods list.

[RushTheBus]

http://i1066.photobucket.com/albums/u407/RushTheBus/mods_zpsb8crcsyw.png

Those are my active mods. I know that the torpedoes always go under the keel because i do have free-cam enabled and i started to follow them via that when they never hit. Thanks for the replies, hopefully my mods shed some more light on whats going on :)

[CptGrayWolf]

It looks like you have done it all correctly. Unfortunate luck, but duds in the early war were common. I'd say reload and wait for the weather to clear. Perhaps, to experiment, watch the torpedoes run in your little animations window. (If turned on.) You may see why they miss or if they hit. I'd still say, wait.

This.
Four misses in bad weather doesn't sound so abnormal to me. But I do remember reading something about a mod (or mod conflict) that will change your torpedo depth...

edit: looks like it might be your V16b1 mod http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=216945

edit again: Ok I read up on it quickly and the V16B1 mod has nothing to do with your torps passing under the keel. That mod models duds resulting from too shallow torpedo depth settings.

[RushTheBus]

Thanks for looking into it GrayWolf and others (if someone else thinks my mods are the issue please post so i can correct the order or remove the problematic mod).

Its so frustrating, its my first real patrol and i wanted to take down additional cargo. I can't get on the deck gun because of the seas (a V16B1 feature). I hunted this one for like an hour and a half and set myself up. I'll keep trying, maybe ill just shadow her until the weather dies down like others have said.

[CptGrayWolf]

Yup, shadow until the weather gets better. Real life U-boats could hunt a convoy for days. Patience is the name of the game :yep:

[BigWalleye]

Those are my active mods. I know that the torpedoes always go under the keel because i do have free-cam enabled and i started to follow them via that when they never hit. Thanks for the replies, hopefully my mods shed some more light on whats going on :)

I am guessing that you are not familiar with the Torpedo Failure Fix in h.sie's patcher (aka V16B1), which you apparently have installed. There is a lengthy explanation of what this fix does in the file Readme_V16B1.pdf. Briefly though, the fix simulates the problem of torpedoes broaching (breaking the sea surface, with resultant failure) in heavy weather. If the torpedo depth is set at less than 0.4 times the wind speed, then there is a good chance the torpedo will fail. If a failure occurs, in this case it is simulated by adjusting the torpedo depth to 25 m.

At 13 m/s wind speed, 0.4*13=5.2, so any depth setting shallower than 5.2 m has a good chance of being reset to 25 m, underrunning any target. The lowest wind speed you mentioned was 13 m/s, and the deepest torpedo setting you mentioned was 5 m, which is less than the minimum safe depth to avoid this type of torpedo failure. (Be aware that hsie's patcher models other failure modes also!) So all of the torpedo firings you described had a good chance to underrun the target.

Historically, of course, the early-war torpedoes also had an unreliable depth-setting mechanism. The actual run depth of the torpedo was liable to be anywhere from 0 to 2.8 m deeper than the set depth. Neither NYGM nor (AFAIK) GWX3 models this, although NYGM does have an optional add-in for SH3C which does. That adds a whole new dimension of uncertainty to an attack in heavy weather.:)

[RushTheBus]

I appreciate the explanation. I'll have to figure out the wind speed and see if that makes any difference. I guess i'm getting a bit over zealous given that its still 1939 and i haven't run into much of anything other than solo freighters.

[BigWalleye]

I appreciate the explanation. I'll have to figure out the wind speed and see if that makes any difference. I guess i'm getting a bit over zealous given that its still 1939 and i haven't run into much of anything other than solo freighters.

Get the wind speed from your navigator. Multiply it by 0.4. Set the torpedo depth greater than that number, and you'll see a difference.

[sublynx]

I just attacked in 15 m/s winds and noticed that of the 4 torpedoes I launched the first and the fourth one had a red line giving the estimated impact time added to the clock and the 2nd and 3rd one didn't get the red line. I had a peek with the outside view and noticed that the 3rd and 2nd one failed to keep their depth. Can someone confirm that failed eels are indicated by the lacking red line in the clock?

[RushTheBus]

I'm running with 74% realism (i know, pathetic but i'm just not there yet). I didn't get the red line but BigWalleye is right on the money. I obtained the wind speed, multiplied by .4. In my case the wind was actually higher than i estimated at 15 m/s, i set the depth for 7m and i had two of three hit (the other exploded before it would have impacted - seems to have malfunctioned).

[Zedwardson]

I'm running with 74% realism (i know, pathetic but i'm just not there yet). I didn't get the red line but BigWalleye is right on the money. I obtained the wind speed, multiplied by .4. In my case the wind was actually higher than i estimated at 15 m/s, i set the depth for 7m and i had two of three hit (the other exploded before it would have impacted - seems to have malfunctioned).

Don't worry about that, I play at 47 percent realism mostly due to I am playing for fun.

[BigWalleye]

Don't worry about that, I play at 47 percent realism mostly due to I am playing for fun.

If you are having fun, then regardless of what anyone else tells you, you are doing it right.

-Illegitimi non carborundum.

[UKönig]

Don't worry about that, I play at 47 percent realism mostly due to I am playing for fun.

I have also kicked it up to 47% realism.
I left unlimited fuel on because these things are insufferably slow enough as it is, and I like to travel at 4/5ths throttle whenever I can. I don't want to have to worry about the rate of consumption. I have just turned limited battery back on, to up the ante a little bit, and even that small adjustment makes a big difference in gameplay.
I like to keep the exterior camera and 'god's eye mode' on, because that is an advantage the game gives me that was not available to the real captains, and I do make full (unfair) use of it.
In all honesty, if I had to be fully realistic, I would not be the captain, I'd be the cook...

[corporalspiffy]

18. Torpedo Failure Fix
This Fix tries to model the torpedo crisis until 1942 and also tries t
from too shallow torpedo depth settings. Fig. 1 below illustrates the
Failure Fix. The depth D1 is equal to the windspeed-dependent wav
above D1 are surface runners and lead to a failure probability of p
Figure 1). Depth D1 can be calculated as follows:
D1 = 0.25 · Windspeed = Windspeed / 4.
The depth D2 can be calculated:
D2 = 0.4 · Windspeed = 4 · Windspeed / 10.
Water below depth = D2 is assumed to be calm. Torpedos below D2
probability of p = po. The value of po depends on the time (torpedo c
pistol chosen (magnetic/impact). Details see below. The area betwee
is the area of turbolences. Here, the failure probability sinks linear
p=98% at depth = D1 to the small value of p=po at depth = D2.

[Aquelarrefox]

hi, i have another related question about the fix torpedo.

in pdf says about about a safe limit d2 deep to have high posibility of succes. Also incluide a table of porcentage of pistol failure.

My question is the fix get this 2 failures at same time, becose i have lots of miss under keel at 25m under d2 (wind 10, depht=7.5 or 8) with magnetic pistol.

This way i can undestand that could happens no by the deep setting, so by the pistol failure. Is this way?

And i never see a complete listo of causes of failure, there are more than "early detonation" and "impact pistol failure by bad angule"?

thanks is a very good post

[bstanko6]

Bad weather affects more than the torpedo.

It affects the target ship speed. What I mean by that, if you are tracking the target speed in bad weather, it will change. The ship may go from 5kts to 7kts or less! I use the 3 bearing method a lot and this is pretty accurate, but when the seas are rolling, the speed, and the distance of the ship are affected by the rolling waves. With that in mind, the ship moves up and down with the waves, slows down and speeds up due to the physics of the ocean.

Even if you set your depth perfectly, and knew the torpedo was good and will not fail, you could miss your ship. And for those of you that love to set your torp shallow to impact the ship, you risk a failure. This is what they call a lose/lose situation, but this is what the commanders faced every attack.

The way I do it is if I see a lone ship I really want, but will I just can't wait for the weather, I only use aft torpedoes. That way if I fail, I don't feel so bad about losing one torpedo versus 4.

Trust me I would be tempted to use them all.

[Aquelarrefox]

No, torpedo went 25m down like failure, I checked some with external camera. I was reading about weather modding and I see steibler said that game engine supports winds of 30 lbs, but message only says 15.
I wish to know if 10kmh ate really 10. I have rates to higher about 50% when magnetic pistol have only 15.

[Dave Kay]

Hmmm.... lots of variables in bad weather no doubt and it took me a few careers (years) to learn some technique.

In my case, I have a fair success rate in high-seas/high-winds by setting torps to slow, 3 to 3.5 meters depth w/impact. And depending on the type of merchant and draft, I may send two fish simultaneously for good measure.

Also, I attack mostly at periscope depth not more than 600-700 meters distance from target as near as possible to 90 degrees off the bows. This does take a lot of stalking to make it a total surprise attack but how does 75% kill rate hit you? Do-able~!:salute:

BTW: I'm at 74% realism w/GWX3.