My first patrol: what am I doing wrong?

[FredMSloniker]

I'm playing my first Silent Hunter 4 campaign, with the expansion, TMO, and RSRDC installed, and I've just had the same scenario repeat three times in a row on my very first mission: I get an airplane warning and immediately hit 'crash dive'. Immediately isn't immediately enough, however, as the plane is on me less than ten seconds later, and I get the crap bombed out of me. To be clear, this isn't some case where I keep reloading; I get bombed, dive, make repairs, do course wiggling, surface, and am able to sail a bit before the next plane teleports in, or seems to.

What am I doing wrong? Is there something I should be doing to get more warning? I tried shooting back once, but that just got my AA guy killed and both periscopes knocked out...

[razark]

Do you have SD radar installed? I believe it should be available from the begining of the war. It should give you enough of a warning to get under before the planes find you.

Edit:
And welcome aboard, by the way!

[Armistead]

Been awhile, but if starting out of Manila, depending on boat, you may not get air radar, so it's visual and usually you just get under unless you're in the old S boat which takes forever.

[FredMSloniker]

I'm starting from Pearl Harbor in the Porpoise, start of the war. I'll check and see if I can find the SD radar. Thanks!

e: also, does this board not have custom avatars?

[razark]

I'm starting from Pearl Harbor in the Porpoise, start of the war.
You should have it available as a choice. I think the game should start you with it installed if it is available.

Be warned, however. The game will not tell you if your radar is picking up an air or surface contact. Once you get both radars, you will have to figure out which one it is on your own.

does this board not have custom avatars?
They are available if you choose to donate to the website.

[FredMSloniker]

Okay, I just checked. SD radar is a 500-renown upgrade for the Porpoise, at least with the mods I'm running. Is there anything else I should be doing to avoid being picked apart by aircraft?

[Crannogman]

Okay, I just checked. SD radar is a 500-renown upgrade for the Porpoise, at least with the mods I'm running. Is there anything else I should be doing to avoid being picked apart by aircraft?

Have good watch and sensor men, an excellent AA gunner (good skills in watch and guns) and at least a double-barrel 20mm AA gun

[razark]

If you do get caught on the surface, go to flank speed, and start turning towards the plane. Then crash dive. Once you are under water, change your course, just in case he tries to drop on where he thinks you are. Don't try to fight on the surface, unless you cannot dive for some reason (damage or shallow water).

The best way to deal with planes is to stay away from them. Remember that they are on search patrols. They'll fly out some direction for some distance, and then return to base. This means that once a plane has passed over you, he's probably going to be coming back over on his return leg.

If you have map contacts on:
Once you get SD radar, you'll find you don't need to dive for every plane. When you get a contact, go to the map and draw a 5 or 6 nm circle around your boat. Draw two lines from the contact tangent to this circle. This will leave you with a drawing of an ice cream cone on your map. The circle is the range he can visually spot you in. Watch how the contact moves. If he enters the "cone", it means he will reach that circle, and you should pull the plug and get under. If he doesn't enter that cone, he'll be outside of the circle, and you can stay on the surface.

[FredMSloniker]

Okay, so I started a fresh map, set out from Pearl Harbor, headed to the destination point, and patrolled.

And patrolled.

And patrolled.

My orders were to patrol the area for 72 hours, but it's January now, and I still haven't received objective complete. Do they expect me to sink something--anything--before I can come back? Am I misreading the map somehow, circling the star that marked where I was supposed to go? Or what?

[Webster]

Okay, so I started a fresh map, set out from Pearl Harbor, headed to the destination point, and patrolled.

And patrolled.

And patrolled.

My orders were to patrol the area for 72 hours, but it's January now, and I still haven't received objective complete. Do they expect me to sink something--anything--before I can come back? Am I misreading the map somehow, circling the star that marked where I was supposed to go? Or what?

you have to stay in the area given, only your time "in that area" count, leave the area or park just out of the boundary and the clock stops until you return inside the boundary.

are you new to the game? if so why are you using TMO? its one of the toughest mods to survive the game with, its designed to increase your pucker factor lol.

if you are a beginner try the stock game until you have experience and get good at it.

[razark]

It's been a long time since I've used RSRDC. Does the map have circles around the patrol objective?

One other thing I remember having to do at one point is sending a patrol report when you have been patrolling long enough. Note the time you arrive on station, remain close (I don't remember how close. It might have been 50 or 150 nm from the marker.), and send a patrol report when enough time has passed.

[FredMSloniker]

Yes, I'm completely new! I was under the impression that I'd have to unlearn a bunch of bad habits if I didn't start with TMO. I was also under the impression that the Rising Sun mod made mission generation a lot better. Should I uninstall both, or just get rid of TMO and use the standalone RSRDC? Actually, let me generalize that question: should I play completely stock to start with, or are there some must-have quality-of-life mods?

As for staying in the patrol area, uh, how do I know that I'm in it? The message doesn't say exactly what shape the area is, and the only icon I see on the map is the 'go here' icon from the first objective.

[Captain Dave]

On your map, click on the compass. Move it to the center of the star in your patrol area. Then hold your left mouse button down and draw a line. When he number at the end of the line matches the number in your orders, let go of the button and right click your mouse. The circle will be your patrol zone.

[FredMSloniker]

Okay, I'm gonna get rid of TMO and use just the Run Silent Run Deep Campaign, see how that goes. I think what may be going on is some sort of non-fatal mod conflict, because I'm not given a number in my orders for the size of the patrol area, and indeed my brief orders simply say to kill shipping. So the 72-hour figure may not actually apply. Anyway. Experimentation ahoy!

[TorpX]

Make sure you have the correct version of RSRDC; there are versions for each of TMO, RFB, and stock.

If you are seeing a lot of aircraft, I would consider patrolling submerged. Otherwise, all you can do is crash dive, and hope for the best.

[CCIP]

The mission tasking comes from RSRDC, not TMO. For some mission types, you need to radio a status report for a new assignment to arrive. For "sink tonnage"objectives, you are not tied to an area and can move out further in search of ships.

Oh, and a tip about the radar: TMO and most other major mods include an extending SD radar antenna that allows the radar to be used down to periscope depth. You can patrol at periscope depth with it out if you wish. The SJ (surface) radar can also be used submerged, but only down to about 2/3 of periscope depth (you have to set that depth manually).

Also, TMO is a great mod, but it's geared towards experienced players, making the game intentionally more difficult than might be considered realistic so that even veterans find it chchallenging and interesting. For a similarly realistic but less unforgiving mod, you can always try RFB or FOTRS.

[fireftr18]

Every one has a different opinion. I say play stock for until you feel like you've mastered how the game engine works. Then start adding the mods. Like others have said, TMO makes the game more difficult. TMO by itself actually makes the game so difficult it is not realistic that way, and that's the purpose. RSRDC's main purpose is to render traffic and routes as close to historic accuracy as possible within the game engine. You will not get much traffic in the beginning of the war, and may even return without a sighting.
After reading the previous replies and your replies to them, it sounds like the mods didn't correctly install or are not working properly. To make sure, don't install SH4 into the "x-86" directory. I put it in it's own directory. When you unpack the mods, make sure they're not in the dreaded double directory (mods/tmo/tmo). The directory structure won't recognize it, and no changes will be made. Make sure, you have the correct version of SH4. You will need version 1.5 (or Gold, or the U-boat add on). You can tell by looking at the lower right hand corner of the loading screen.
The supermods don't take effect in middle of a career. You have to start a new career for them to take effect.

I think I already welcomed you the forum, but just in case I didn't, welcome aboard! :salute:
And the last group of newbies, I've been assigning them to polish the props, so you're not there already, then get to it.

[FredMSloniker]

Okay, running into a little bit of an issue. Clean install of SH4 with the U-Boat addon, added RFB 2.0 and RFB 2.0 Patch 23 no problem. Tried to add RSRDC RFB V575 on top of that, and the game crashes when I try to get a view outside the boat. (Only once was I able to reach the bridge, and then only for a fraction of a second.) Adding the RSRDC patch doesn't help. This is starting a fresh campaign with all the default options. Any idea what the issue might be? I was able to get the game to run successfully with TMO+RSRDC and stock+RSRDC...

[TorpX]

Your mod list should look like this:

RFB_2.0 .................................(Real Fleet Boat)
RFB_2.0_Patch_23April2010
RSRDC_RFB_V575 ...........(Run Silent Run Deep Campaign)
RSRDC_V5xx_Patch1

Next, I would make sure that the mods do not have the frequently encountered double folder problem. This occurs when there is an extra folder like this:

Mods\RFB_2.0\RFB_2.0\Data\......

instead of this:

Mods\RFB_2.0\Data\......



Next, I would ask what are your computer specs? If they are marginal, there could be problems there.

I assume you started a new career. This should always be done when installing a complex mod like TMO, RFB, etc.

[FredMSloniker]

I've made sure the mods were installed in the correct order and without the double-folder problem, and I've started a new career. I'll try a completely clean install next and see if that helps. As for computer specs, I bought my computer just two years ago--a Dell Inspiron 660 with a Radeon 7700 added--so it should be up to running SH4. What else might be the problem?

[FredMSloniker]

Okay. Fresh install of SH4 U-Boat. Added mods. Started campaign without changing anything, and going to the bridge worked fine... except that the nearby islands were a solid lime green. Exited the program, changed settings to windowed, tried again, crash. Deleted my settings folder, tried again, crash. I don't know what's going on here, but my computer does not seem to like the combination of Real Fleet Boat and Run Silent Run Deep.

[FredMSloniker]

I figured it out! I was running out of memory. I used the tip in the SH4 master thread since I have 64-bit Windows 7 and eight gigs of RAM, and problem solved! Now I can go shoot things.

Maybe.

http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-downs.gif

[Sailor Steve]

:rock: :sunny:

[CybrSlydr]

Whew! Glad to see TMO is purposely harder - these DD escorts are brutal - I counted last time and evaded something like 82 depth charges from two DDs. Unfortunately, my luck eventually ran out and two of them connected and sunk me.

I just could not evade - not at test depth, not changing depth, not running silently... Nothing. Bastards just wouldn't leave poor 'ole me alone! lol

[FredMSloniker]

So it looks like fuel going from Pearl Harbor to the first mission is... tight. How should I be handling this? Go slow so the fuel lasts longer? Refuel at Midway and... some base near Japan before going on station? (I thought I was clever plotting a route to Manila once, but it wasn't ours anymore by the time I got there, and I didn't have enough fuel to get to somewhere we did have...)

[TorpX]

If you have forward bases where you can top off, there is no reason not to. The cost of the fuel doesn't come out of your pay, after all.

If fuel is tight, go at one-engine speed, but if you have enough, I would go faster. It really depends. Planning is important.

[razark]

I'll usually use higher speed runs from base to the patrol area. Once in the patrol area, drop your speed to the most efficient. You can check this by setting various speeds (use the actual speeds, not 1/3, 1/2, etc.), and checking maximum range at that speed. I'll also vary speed by time of day. During the day, I'll run at a higher speed, in case of aircraft. At night, I'll drop back down to the most efficient speed. I often do this on the return to base to stretch fuel.

[raygamhu]

Okay, so I started a fresh map, set out from Pearl Harbor, headed to the destination point, and patrolled.

And patrolled.

And patrolled.

My orders were to patrol the area for 72 hours, but it's January now, and I still haven't received objective complete. Do they expect me to sink something--anything--before I can come back? Am I misreading the map somehow, circling the star that marked where I was supposed to go? Or what?

With TMO 2.5 + RSRDC, the radius of patrol zone is specified( 50/100/150 nm), stay within that circle for the requested time.
Is the objective an orange binocular or flag sign?
If it is a binocular, you must patrol inside the given circle for 72 hours.
If it's a flag, on getting inside the circle, makes the objective completed, and after that usually you receive an other objective saying, patrol 72 hours and sink ships.
It is up to you, where you go hunting, sink more than approx 3000 tons, and you will get objective completed.

[FredMSloniker]

Things I've learned so far in my efforts just to get to my first patrol in one piece:
When the boat gets to the end of a plotted course, it turns the engines off. It does not attempt to stop the boat at the last waypoint. It doesn't attempt to stop at all; it just turns the engines off when it hits the waypoint. And subs slow down very slowly on their own. Which means I pulled into Midway to refuel, looked away for a few minutes, and crunch
Indeed, there doesn't seem to be any good way to come to a full stop. I can reverse engines and get close to a full stop, but I still drift for a good long time. Maybe if I put the boat into a tight turn? Or is there an anchor button I'm missing, silly as that sounds?
I shouldn't rely on the game to step down time acceleration when I'm close to land in general. Not only does it tend not to do so, getting close to a harbor will lag the game at high accelerations, making it difficult to manually turn them off.
Maybe in the next few days I can actually get to the point of shooting something! http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-downs.gif

[FredMSloniker]

Oh, quick question. The RFB key commands thing mentions 'snorkel depth'. Are any of the subs actually equipped with snorkels?

[Sniper297]

Q1, I've done the same thing when ending a patrol, frantically hitting the backspace key to stop time acceleration while the program ignores the keyboard and runs the sub aground. I've learned to add a "buttonhook" to the end of the course line, a short sharp turn away from the land into open sea.

Q2, not in the stock game - US subs didn't have snorkels until the post WWII Guppy class. I use snorkel depth for "decks awash" instead.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=211613

[Armistead]

best thing to bring tc down quickly is just hit a key for one of the sub compartments....

[FredMSloniker]

Okay, one last question (for now): is there a preferred subforum for me to have a thread about me streaming myself playing the game? I think it'd be fun, and that way you guys could pop in and be all NO YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG.

[TorpX]

When the boat gets to the end of a plotted course, it turns the engines off. It does not attempt to stop the boat at the last waypoint. It doesn't attempt to stop at all; it just turns the engines off when it hits the waypoint. And subs slow down very slowly on their own. Which means I pulled into Midway to refuel, looked away for a few minutes, and crunch
Indeed, there doesn't seem to be any good way to come to a full stop. I can reverse engines and get close to a full stop, but I still drift for a good long time. Maybe if I put the boat into a tight turn? Or is there an anchor button I'm missing, silly as that sounds?



You might want to try Improved Ship Physics. It doesn't have an anchor, but it does away with the gamey acceleration/deceleration.

[Crannogman]

Things I've learned so far in my efforts just to get to my first patrol in one piece:
When the boat gets to the end of a plotted course, it turns the engines off. It does not attempt to stop the boat at the last waypoint. It doesn't attempt to stop at all; it just turns the engines off when it hits the waypoint. And subs slow down very slowly on their own. Which means I pulled into Midway to refuel, looked away for a few minutes, and crunch
Indeed, there doesn't seem to be any good way to come to a full stop. I can reverse engines and get close to a full stop, but I still drift for a good long time. Maybe if I put the boat into a tight turn? Or is there an anchor button I'm missing, silly as that sounds?
I shouldn't rely on the game to step down time acceleration when I'm close to land in general. Not only does it tend not to do so, getting close to a harbor will lag the game at high accelerations, making it difficult to manually turn them off.
Maybe in the next few days I can actually get to the point of shooting something! http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-downs.gif

Base radius is about 10nm, so you shouldn't have to get near enough even to be pointed at land. When plotting a course home or to re-up, I usually make my last leg short and parallel to land. I also bring the TC for the last few hours as I approach home. That said, I usually also get brought down from TC as my sensors start picking up the local harbor traffic.

[thegrindre]

I believe the realistic way to stop IS to reverse the engines to slow down and then stop so you can drop an anchor, which we don't have.
That's the way I'm doing it cuz I don't have an anchor.

:)

[FredMSloniker]

I didn't get a response to this question, so I'll ask again:

Okay, one last question (for now): is there a preferred subforum for me to have a thread about me streaming myself playing the game? I think it'd be fun, and that way you guys could pop in and be all NO YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG.

[TorpX]

There is a sticky thread, 'Stories and Patrol logs', near the top.

[FredMSloniker]

Thank you much!